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Question about the recruitment drive (self.MensLib)

dockorcock が 投稿

Kind of getting the feeling this sub is on its way to being a srs vehicle. I thought the sub was going to be more neutral? But there are posts in places like againstmensrights inviting users to head over here

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[–]BrokeBlokeWithACoke 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

What do you mean by SRS vehicle? As in feministic? That's sort of the point of the sub.

If you mean the brigading, low-effort type of stuff, I doubt it will turn into anything like that. You've got to realize SRS is essentailly what happens when extremely grumpy people, a circlejerk, and poe's law all fuse together. Actual social justice subs tend to not turn out like that. Even other subs that are heavily critical of anything not SJ (like /r/circlebroke which I am a poster at) don't end up like SRS.

[–]dockorcock[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

No don't mean feministic, wouldn't consider r/feminism or r/twoxchromosomes as part of the srs 'fempire'. I have no gripe with feminists but I consider the srs 'fempire' an extremist selection of subs

[–]TruePrep1818 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

How are they extremists? What extreme beliefs do they espouse or actions do they take? Being "in the middle" or moderate is not always the correct standpoint.

[–]jpaul3211 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

'Being arseholes to people who don't fall in line with "feminist dogma"' is likely what they were thinking about when writing this post.

The rule about being respectful will allow for actual discussion and prevent a toxic environment from forming if applied correctly.

[–]theomegaconstant 6ポイント7ポイント  (10子コメント)

Neutral in what way?

[–]dockorcock[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

Neutral in that it shouldn't be linked to srs subs, in the same way it shouldn't be linked with red pill esque subs

[–]theomegaconstant 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

I don't think that sort of neutrality is even possible. We can't operate as if feminism or The Red Pill don't exist. Particularly feminism, which is a crucial ally to what this sub is trying to accomplish.

This aspect of this sub is non-negotiable, I'm guessing, so if this doesn't work for you, I doubt this sub will, either.

[–]dockorcock[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

I understand that, neutrality of this sub will always be tough and that was one of my fears when I first came here. But it feels like the extremists on one side (srs style subs/users) are being invited to come here and I'm not sure why. I dislike their presence as much as I dislike red pill users.

Sadly you are probably right, this sub will probably not be my cup of tea

[–]mrgoodnighthairdo 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wait, are you calling againstmensrights an "srs style sub"? In what ways, exactly?

[–]dockorcock[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Take a look at their sidebar, solid amount of evidence.

They provide a list of MRA subs, their front page is full of links to some of those subs. Looks pretty much like a copy of srs.

Further down it says they are a friend of the 'fempire', the link takes you to a list of srs approved subs. So yeah I would classify them as a srs style sub

[–]lunishidd 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

AMR is used to be part of the SRS fempire until they got kicked out by them for being too extreme, mostly due to real life harassment and doxxing

[–]TruePrep1818 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

TRP advocates rape, abuse, and sexual manipulation.

SRS does not.

The two are not remotely equivalent and pretending they are is being facetious.

[–]ComradeShitlord 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Actually, a couple members of SRS got caught sending rape threats to a girl just the other day. They were not banned.

http://i.imgur.com/s8K2GeI.png

http://imgur.com/a/IXcil

So, uh, no.

[–]mrsamsa 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just note that the accusations came from a sub designed to hate SRS, SRS mods have stated that they received no report, we have no reason to think they're lying as they've banned people for similar threats and doxxing in the past, and the person who supposedly received these PMs hasn't contacted the admins where action would be taken but they'd also have the ability to fact check the report.

It's not impossible but currently all evidence points to faked screenshots.

[–]KaonPlus 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

SRS does not.

If you're comparing both subs side-by-side, then yeah SRS isn't an absolute scum-hole...but that doesn't determine whether SRS is a good sub to be allied to.

I pop in there once in a while to see what it's like. Many of the comments or posts linked there are actually pretty poor, but the comments on the posts are just horrid.

Edit: To expand, the comments in SRS go under the mask of a circle jerk, but it doesn't read to me as being anything of the sort. Dissenting comments are removed and users banned, with what's left being a distilled sub full of pure hatred of anything or anybody that isn't 100% completely in line with feminism. I'm a feminist, but i'm not down with that.

[–]MuhamedBesic 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

I agree. This sub was not created to be a new mensrights subreddit. It essentially is here to discuss men's issues, without having to blame feminists for everything bad happening to men. Some users here also feel that feminism isn't just a movement, it's literally a way to view the world (or something to that effect, still don't understand what they are talking about). I personally want to talk about issues that have affected me without a feminist coming in saying that it's because of patriarchy we as men are all oppressed, or an MRA coming in and saying that feminists are brainwashing me. I want to discuss things like male rape, parental rights, boys' declining graduation rates, and other things that affect us. I want to do it rationally, with an open mind to new viewpoints and without feeling like I need to conform to a certain group's mold and mindset in order to post.

[–]NalkaNalka 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Very much agree with this assesment. However a large portion of people here are trying to turn it into a SRS vassal state. A third or so of the posts on the front page are about how to make this place more feminist and kick out anyone that disagrees.

MRA trolls are easy to spot and ban. So why are people using scare tactics to push for ideological clensing

[–]mrgoodnighthairdo 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

A third or so of the posts on the front page...

Are you looking at the same front page? Because I don't see that.

[–]NalkaNalka 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I did not really count. Less OPs but with more replies.

[–]FattyMcPatty 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

SRS is not a "vassal state"

If you would actually see what is being banned, you will see 9/10 times it's clear bigotry

[–]TruePrep1818 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

1) There is no way to lobby for the liberation of men from gender roles without being in dialogue with the feminist movement. There is no way to be neutral on the subject; either everyone gets to be free from the gendered constraints placed on them, or no one does.

2) /r/againstmensrights is not against men having rights. It is against the "Men's Rights Movement" which is not, in reality, a movement for men's wellbeing, but a movement advocating the codification of male privilege and traditional gender roles.

[–]Haberdashery2000 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

Political neutrality is an impossibility. If you ally with the status quo, you side with the current oppressors.

It says in the sidebar that this sub is explicitly pro-feminist (or at the very least anti-anti-feminist), so naturally it would make sense to network with the Fempire.

[–]dockorcock[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

The 'fempire' is full of extremist subs/users who will turn this place into a tug of war with the extremists (red pill users etc) on the other side of the divide. It will not be a pleasant viewing.

Just my opinion

[–]Gunlord500 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know where you're coming from, man. Still, like jpaul said, even if this place does some recruiting from SRS-esque subs (and we can't really control who links this sub where, that's up to individual users, alas), I think the mod team will ensure extremism from the left is dealt with as well as that from the right. I've seen radical misandrist feminist being shooed off by downvoting recently--I think this sub might be what we're looking for, though you're right, we'll have to be careful.

[–]OBrzeczyszczykiewicz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think I have faith in the mods to deal with all types of extremism, regardless of where it's coming from. Individual users of any subreddit are and should be still welcome to come here as long as they are here in good faith and to gain a different perspective and not to spew their bullshit and troll.

When I lose faith in the mods I will abandon ship, but for now, i think the mods are doing a stellar job (considering how much this place has grown) and are definitely attempting to strike a good balance.

[–]jpaul3211 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Read the first rule and it should calm your fears about drama and harassment.

[–]Body_without_organs 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

In the sidebar it says that the sub is a place for people turned off by MRAs. The sub is explicitly not neutral.

Edit:

This is the paragraph I was talking about: Think that men sometimes get a raw deal, but don't want to associate with outright misogynists? Want to discuss men's issues, but feel like the MRM shoots itself in the foot by obsessing over feminism and SJWs instead?

[–]dockorcock[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

I unsubbed from MensRights months ago after seeing the increasing number of tumblr style 'feminism sucks' posts. There are well meaning people who do post in that sub, although sadly the crappy 'dae feminism sucks' clickbait titles reach the front page. I could easily condemn feminism by basing it on a few men hating nutjobs in the movement, but that wouldn't be fair. So it doesn't quite feel fair to label the entire MRA movement as toxic. I suppose it is tricky to weed out the well meaning folk and red pill/extremists.

Anyway, I just hope this sub doesn't become too far leaning to one side.

[–]FattyMcPatty -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

The problem is the creeps are not few in number. Most of them are actually leaders in the movement.

I highly recommended you check out we hundred the mammoth.com

Very reliably sourced articles that prove the MRM is just a misogynistic hate movement. Maybe some innocent kids on reddit don't think so, but that doesn't change what it really is

[–]lunishidd -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

But David Frutelle is misogynist who tells women they are worthless and they will never be successful in life because men are oppressing them.

[–]FattyMcPatty 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sure man.

Acknowledgedging the existence of a patriarchy =\= telling women they'll never succeed.

[–]YeahaNSFWaccount 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I too have very serious concerns with how many persons with histories consisting of frequent posting to SRS groups have been coming in here. A slowly growing amount of posts seemingly with the goal of "educating the men" are being posted and it worries me. Meaningful dialogue and substantive discussion of men's issues seems largely....problematic...in an environment flooded with persons advocating an SRS-style perspective.

In the end, I'm not here for a popularity contest, but in the hope of finding one space where men can discuss matters that they are usually shouted down in on other forums, MRA and otherwise...a place without the idealogical hate from either side.

Given how my overall karma score has dropped preciously in the last few minutes, I'm assuming I've annoyed some people. Such is as I expected and while my experience and the worth of karma mean little in the grand scheme, the ability to sculpt a discussion by burying dissent is powerful, and it appears we now see who [most likely] the largest influencer on this subreddit will be.

[–]FattyMcPatty -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your dissent is not "buried"

All I have to do to find it is sort by "old"

[–]YeahaNSFWaccount 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am not referring to extra measures taken to read posts downvoted a bit. Typically persons who are not popular are downvoted below the standard viewing thresholds, and via this method one can engineer a subreddit to conform to a standard narrative.

This is attempted or done by many groups, SRS is not exclusive to this practice, but they do have the most to gain in this circumstance, hence why I am concerned.

In honesty, MRAs have an objective here as well as poisoning the well of discussion would help to reinforce their point. Most groups are out for themselves so any location that attempts to maintain a space for discussion without towing a strong idealogical line is likely to be taken out by one or the other. And as always, both will feel they are in the moral right to do so. Vigilance against manipulation by all sides is needed in this case.