Riot Pls | League of Legends

Numerianus · 2時間前

Well, Hai is not too pleased about Riot's stance on no Sandbox mode.

https://twitter.com/Hai_L9/status/629006683423903744

AgusTrickz · 3時間前

Here's what we're not working on

Replays (for now)

Alright boys, we can leave now. Nothing to see

tailsmph · 3時間前

"We at capcom believe that playing Street Fighter online against random people is the best way to improve, so we're removing training mode because practicing your combos and making sure your button inputs are correct is just silly"

Look how stupid that sounds. Just look at it

You know why people at competitive video games get so good? Because they put in the goddam time. Thats why the top fighting game players don't drop combos, know what options they have in any given situation, and know matchups better than anyone else.

What Riot saying here is that people who are willing to practice and improve certain valuable aspects of the game that sandbox mode would easily allow them to do shouldn't be better at the game, and that's fucked up

olitae · 3時間前

We never want to see a day when a player wants to improve at League and their first obligation is to hop into a Sandbox.

CS has that since 1999 and theres never has been such a problem, dota has it and theres not such a problem either, this is probably the most bs excuse i have ever seen.

Tommypynchon · 3時間前

Riot thinks a sandbox mode would be a barrier to entry, which they don't want. So instead they're leaving in tiered runes, rune costs, leveling to 30, etc.

There should be a clarification: "While there are very real skills one can develop in a hyperbolic time chamber, we never want that to be an expectation added onto an already high barrier to entry since it would be hard to justify monetizing it."

Edit: It's also just incredible that Riot says they "might investigate other ways to [allow players to try out content]." If they "care about this too," why hasn't that been "investigated?" Every other game of this genre and most comparable online games of other genres have extremely simple, straightforward ways to do this, and have since launch. Really tired of Riot's complete doublespeak about caring about the players, both casual and competitive, when they prove they couldn't care less over and over again.

Ansibled · 3時間前

We want to make sure we’re clear: playing games of League of Legends should be the unequivocal best way for a player to improve. While there are very real skills one can develop in a hyperbolic time chamber, we never want that to be an expectation added onto an already high barrier to entry. On an individual level, we know this isn’t always true – some just want a space to practice flashing over walls without having to wait at least 3.6 minutes in between – but when that benefit is weighed against the risk of Sandbox mode ‘grinding’ becoming an expectation, we just can’t accept the tradeoff.

Hello?

There is no tradeoff. People who want to practice seriously will practice. People who want to have fun won't use it to grind mechanics.

League has plenty of gamemodes to play casually or for fun, why would having the option of a sandbox mode scare these people away or make them feel obligated to use it?

PunkS7yle · 3時間前

Whoever wrote the Sandbox part is an idiot who never practiced for any sport, ever.

BrolafBestLaf · 3時間前

Their stance on Sandbox mode is the stupidest thing I have EVER HEARD. Saying that the only way to get better at league is to play league is like saying practice in Baseball/basketball/football makes no difference. If I want to practice flashing over certain walls without constraints or testing full builds of a champion without having to do a 45 minute bot game, I should be able to without restraint. This reasoning is horrendous. We should NOT be constrained to practicing only in real games. Because having to "practice" in real games can cost a game because "Oh I didn't know that was possible with x, y, z" or "Oh that wall is actually too thick to flash over".

And at this point I don't even want a full "sandbox mode" where you can change and edit everything. I want a mode where I can reduce cooldowns to zero and buy full items whenever. Also, being able to set gold amounts, levels, and the time of game would be helpful. I have no interest in moving around the baron, towers, dragon or any of that. Let me practice without having to wait 5 minutes to repeat something.

EDIT: Needed to add that every other big competitive game has a sandbox/practice mode. League not having one and being the "biggest competitive esport" is beyond a joke.

EDIT: Response from Riot Pwyff

This is a hard stance to take, but we do agree with what you're saying. That's pretty much why we opened with an agreement. Where it gets fuzzy... on this comment chain someone mentioned (https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/3fwiy0/riot_pls_league_of_legends/ctsl875[1] ) that if someone wants to improve their freethrows, they go practice freethrows - in League that means players should have an expected mode available where they can practice combos, flashing, etc. I'm not straw manning this thing but that's always been a core concern when it comes to dictating behavior. I'll explain: An answer like "players will see sandbox mode as an expectation rather than a 'fun tool' sounds very 'we know better'" but it's a pretty significant concern when you look at other games (ie: fighting games) where, if a player wants to get involved, they need to hop into dozens of hours of training mode first. So in a game that's oriented around players playing to improve, imagine a world where you miss one flash over a wall and your whole team tells you to quit and hop into sandbox mode? Once again, I don't think it's an ironclad stance that will convince the world - I do think it's got merit. I'd imagine everyone's had games already where someone's told them to quit playing ranked and to go play normals. If an additional layer of sandbox got added underneath, that's what we're talking about.

elispion · 3時間前

Sigh, I was hoping that "Expanding our regions to offer better latency'' was on that list.

I guess NA east, South Africans, North Africans and the Middle-East should just not get their hopes up.

AetherThought · 3時間前

That's a fucking lame-ass excuse for not having sandbox mode.

Running drills and ensuring you have solid foundations is the core of literally every competitive sport - you shouldn't need to play a game of baseball just to practice your fly ball catches. That's just stupid.

Edit: Pwyff says that they don't want it because people will be flamed because their mechanics are bad? So why don't we remove Co-op Vs. AI so that now flamers can't tell people to relegate themselves to that, too??

Lulayce · 3時間前

On an individual level, we know this isn’t always true – some just want a space to practice flashing over walls without having to wait at least 3.6 minutes in between – but when that benefit is weighed against the risk of Sandbox mode ‘grinding’ becoming an expectation, we just can’t accept the tradeoff.

So you want new players spending months-years learning how to insec instead of hours?

Are you really saying that Sandbox mode is bad becuase expectations for people's mechanics will be higher? As if people who fail flash don't already get flamed?

This honestly has to be the most stupid explanation to why they are not working on Sandbox mode. I'm sitting here trying to conceive a dumber reason to not have Sandbox mode but I simply can not.

‘Feed’ will probably not be an option, (sorry!).

Leblanc buffs?!?

headphones1 · 3時間前

This is exactly what a lot of people have been looking for when we talk about transparency in regards to development of the game. Thanks Riot.

Regarding sandbox mode:

some just want a space to practice flashing over walls without having to wait at least 3.6 minutes in between – but when that benefit is weighed against the risk of Sandbox mode ‘grinding’ becoming an expectation, we just can’t accept the tradeoff. We never want to see a day when a player wants to improve at League and their first obligation is to hop into a Sandbox. We do want to support your ability to grow in mastery, and there may be other avenues to do so, but not this.

A lot has been said about this already, and I just want to say that this is really disappointing. Do any Rioters play Street Fighter? Imagine if SF had no training mode. Learning how to practice combos in SF would be awful, like it used to be back in the days of SF2. And guess what? Learning how to do proper wombo combos in League is just as bad. Same for individual combos for certain champions like Lee Sin and Azir.

kerblaster · 3時間前

but when that benefit is weighed against the risk of Sandbox mode ‘grinding’ becoming an expectation

In my opinion, this is flawed logic. In Smash Melee, people spend a ton of time in the equivalent "sandbox mode" (20XX cpu's/training mode) grinding out tech skill. When they enter a tournament, it is like playing a whole new game because of the vs human factor.

CSing x amount by a certain time is already a community renowned drill that is very simple to set up, yet majority of all players don't do it.

Sharjo · 3時間前

Tl;DR

Riot Pls will be a quarterly(ish) blog that talks about Riot's current priorities and why some things are being focused on and some aren't.
Riot's work mainly consists of two parts: Paying off the Tech Debt which is a fancy way of saying they're fixing things under the hood like Spaghetti Code, bad infastructure, etc. The other thing is actual quality projects that are visible and we can have and be excited about. The Under the hood skillshot rework is an example of the "paying off tech debt" while gameplay updates, new champions, the new ward selection thing is everything else.

What are they not working on?!

Replays. Too much bad infastructure and stuff means they're on the back burner until such things can be fixed up later. Never say never, but this isn't SoonTM or even Soon, it's a ways off and isn't being worked on.
Sandbox Mode. They don't want a sandbox mode to become something so integral to the League experience that you are forced to use it to become better, plus there's also so major tech downsides. Other options for dealing with sandbox related stuff might appear in the future though. Maybe.

What ARE they working on?

New client. Been a while but providing all goes well we'll be seeing player testing at the start of the 2016 season. Fingers crossed!
Competitive Systems. Ranked Team Builder essentially. You’ll be able to pick 2 positions - including ‘fill’ - to ensure you’re playing in the position you can contribute the most in. That's taken directly from the article.
Better with Friends. Making it easier and better to play with your friends and stuff.
CONTENT TRAIN. Things like events, more mid season focused stuff instead of all the new stuff frontloaded in the season's start, lore related things like comics, videos, novellas (hype for League lore books) and anything else they can figure. Also they wanna raise the quality bar for everything as it comes.

TheGuardian8 · 3時間前

That sandbox mode excuse is ridiculous. We don't want to give our players a tool to practice with, because then people will be expected to use it? That's insane. If anything Sandbox mode would help lower skilled players catch up, because it lets them practice and improve new skills. Playing a game is not great practice, because things you can do in bronze get punished in silver. As well, if they were serious about this barrier to entry stuff then how do they explain the cost of Runes, the fact that you have to purchase every champion, tiered runes, leveling to 30, and the insane IP grind faced by new players. Either admit you don't want to create it, you technically can't create it with how backwards the client is, or that you don't feel like creating it. Don't come up with some weird excuse that doesn't make any sense.

raafhz · 3時間前

Worst decision EVER about Sandbox mode, WTF

MrNobody- · 1時間前

This is it. This is the moment riot went full retard.

khong91493 · 3時間前

It's utterly disrespectful that Riot expects us to take their explanation of why there isn't a sandbox mode and accept it.

Who the heck, in virtually every sport, practices ONLY in in-game situations? I play basketball a few times a week. I love heading to the park and practicing free throws, fadeaway jump shots, and post moves BY MYSELF. It's about the comfort level, and once you reach that certain point, you can showcase it in an actual game.

Sandbox mode is one of the most requested features by league players and Riot just shoved a big "F U" down our throats. I don't know if I'm shocked or angry.

B1ack0mega · 3時間前

Interesting; it's nice to see what they are working on, but that Sandbox mode justification is just pure bullshit. People who want to practice will practice. If you are low skilled, you will still meet low skilled players due to matchmaking. It just raises the average player skill level slightly.

BeeBeeEight · 2時間前

Cmon guys, stop asking for sandbox mode, It's not how you should practice playing the game.

Have you ever seen a basketball player practice shooting or dribbling outside of a real game? I thought so....

DeXyDeXy · 3時間前

I for one am actually glad Riot took the time to tell us they are working hard on all the things we don't want. What a way to let you community know that their opinions don't really matter.

In the meanwhile, skins.

JigWig · 45分前

Let me start by saying I'm really glad Riot is planning on giving these quarterly updates. Hopefully it will keep the player base more at ease at least knowing what's being worked on behind the scenes, even if results can't be seen immediately.

Sandbox Mode

Now, I'm not normally one to complain, and I'm fine with all the decisions Riot has made. I trust their judgement because, for the most part, they have only seen success, so there's no reason to discredit them. However, the reasoning behind no sandbox mode does concern me.

It sounds like what they're saying is that having a sandbox mode will actually make League of Legends too competitive. That just sounds very weird to me, especially when one of their goals listed in this post is Scratching that competitive itch. Now, let me preface this by saying that I do understand their concern for new players and the already steep learning curve. I also understand why they want the process of learning League to be fun and not strenuous.

I am reminded of when I was young and played baseball/soccer/hockey. My dad always turned training for these games into a stressful activity, having to do repetitive activities to improve (do 100 headers, throw 100 pitches, practice stopping on skates both ways, etc). Due to these drills being strenuous rather than fun, I was turned off from the games, and would actually dread going to practice or a game most nights. I can see why Riot wants to avoid this becoming the standard for their game, and an expectation to be good enough to play at a higher tier. I believe this is exactly where Riot is coming from in the below statement, and they're not wrong in their thinking.

While there are very real skills one can develop in a hyperbolic time chamber, we never want that to be an expectation added onto an already high barrier to entry... We never want to see a day when a player wants to improve at League and their first obligation is to hop into a Sandbox.

However, as they stated themselves, having NO sandbox mode is not the solution to this either. As they said:

We do want to support your ability to grow in mastery, and there may be other avenues to do so, but not this.

So while they don't want a traditional sandbox mode in the way that the community has been asking for, they are open to other ideas for improving training options. I would be very interested if they have any ideas on these other avenues, and if they do I would be very open to listening through these ideas. I myself do not have a perfect solution to offer either, and really my only point in this post is in hopes of starting a discussion where we can find these other avenues.

I'll start by offering my ideas on key areas that need to be discussed. Riot is trying keep their game fun by staying away from the training methods used in traditional sports that lead to kids getting burnt out. However, League being a digital game provides many opportunities that traditional sports cannot take advantage of. Rather than avoiding the training methods that lead to burn-out, let's try to think of ways to improve these training methods and take advantage of things that can't be accomplished in real life scenarios, but can be accomplished on a computer.

In traditional sports, training and playing are separated activities. From little leagues to the majors, soccer/baseball/hockey/basketball/etc. players will have practice a few days a week, and then games some days of the week. Riot is trying to stay away from this by making the games also serve as the practice. In my opinion, while this is an easy solution, it is not the best solution. I would argue that the disadvantages of this outweigh the advantages of having a sandbox mode, but it is obvious Riot has taken the opposite stance, so is there any mutual ground between these two?

My last point of discussion that I'd like to hear other peoples opinions on is Will burnout even occur in League? Many fathers will force their kids into playing sports. Being forced to practice is normally when kids learn to dislike practicing via the hyperbolic time chamber methods Riot referred to (flash over walls 100 times). However, if kids choose to do this themselves, I do not think it would deter them from the game at all. However, if League gets competitive enough so that it actually feels necessary to practice flashing over a wall 100 times, would kids still get burnt out even if there is no direct authority figure making them practice their flashing? Is the competitive nature of the game itself personified as the overbearing father in this case? If no, what's the difference? If yes, is there any way to make sure these repetitive activities are still fun?

We want to make sure we’re clear: playing games of League of Legends should be the unequivocal best way for a player to improve.

This is a nice thought, but as we all know, it just isn't true right now. I hope Riot can find a way to make it true other than simply denying players a better learning environment so that they HAVE to learn via playing the game.

Shinmei-San · 3時間前

I realy like this kind of Blog. This is what the playerbase needs more frequently to know what Riot is working on at the moment.

The_Power_Of_Seagull · 3時間前

Well that's good they are giving some transparency to the playerbase, hopefully this means we will see less complaints and memes

Overswagulation · 3時間前

I can understand everything except sandbox mode. That joke of a reason boils down to "because we're lazy and also it makes no money."

othelagony · 2時間前

Their logic behind not having a sandbox mode is so terribly flawed that there has to be another reason behind Riot not wanting a sandbox mode. I almost hope there's another reason.

playing games of League of Legends should be the unequivocal best way for a player to improve

Oh, really? How come athletes in other sports don't just scrimmage all the time? How come the best guitar players practice scales endlessly instead of only practicing the songs that they might play in a concert?

While there are very real skills one can develop in a hyperbolic time chamber, we never want that to be an expectation added onto an already high barrier to entry.

This translates to "We don't want our community becoming so skilled that new players might actually have to practice (GASP) before trying to climb the ladder or improve their 5v5 gameplay." That would be TERRIBLE.

We never want to see a day when a player wants to improve at League and their first obligation is to hop into a Sandbox.

This is painful to read. Riot is saying that people who want to improve specific skills should be forced to do it in a full-fledged game. This defies the desires of a large and very important part of the community. Not only that, but the part of the community that does not necessarily desire a sandbox mode would not be significantly affected at all. :(

howlling · 3時間前

Welp I'm done buying RP for a while

Edit : Happy about the client ( that is long overdue )

I can understand not having the replays fine

but no sandbox mode? get bent riot even the explanation was shit.

Stilwell__ · 3時間前

Sandbox Mode We’ve heard a number of player requests for a Sandbox Mode, with two main reasons: the first is trying out new content – which is something we value too. We want players to know what they’re getting and to be happy with the things they’re unlocking (we may investigate other ways to do this). The second is that players want to practice very specific skills without the constraints of a regular game. For this point, our stance is that sandbox mode is not the way to go. We want to make sure we’re clear: playing games of League of Legends should be the unequivocal best way for a player to improve. While there are very real skills one can develop in a hyperbolic time chamber, we never want that to be an expectation added onto an already high barrier to entry. On an individual level, we know this isn’t always true – some just want a space to practice flashing over walls without having to wait at least 3.6 minutes in between – but when that benefit is weighed against the risk of Sandbox mode ‘grinding’ becoming an expectation, we just can’t accept the tradeoff. We never want to see a day when a player wants to improve at League and their first obligation is to hop into a Sandbox. We do want to support your ability to grow in mastery, and there may be other avenues to do so, but not this.

Replays (for now) Well, this one was our bad. Not only did we promise replays at the launch of League of Legends because we thought it was needed to get esports off the ground (maybe not), but by showing them on the PBE we set the expectation that they’d be on the way Soon™. We backed off replays because the technical demands (server loads, backward compatibility, network stability) were so high that we knew it would be hard to do them ‘right.’ These days we also know that with our above priorities, replays just can’t be a consideration until we clean up a lot of those systems. In the meantime, we're huge fans of the alternatives that the passionate community of developers outside of Riot have created, and we're looking into ways to highlight (and support) those good folks.

What a fucking joke, this goes to show they really do not give a fuck about competitive. How are you going to call your game competitive and still not have replays and sandbox mode? Those are basics in 2015. Basics. Dogshit game company. Super hyped for the Ahri and Riven skins though.

I really hope all the organizations start to pull the fuck back and invest in other games because it has been made VERY clear this year that Riot is done maintaining the competitive side of the game. This is honestly a joke.

cheezywafflez · 2時間前

The fact that they're refusing to implement a sandbox mode for competitive players, despite the competition like Dota 2 already having it, is just asinine.

Trying to back it up with their flawed philosophy, like "the best way to practice is by playing the game itself", just makes it come off as a poor excuse.

Right now it seems that Riot Games is trying to be a "pioneer" or "Nikola Tesla" of F2P games by just rejecting common game development practices and design instead of improving on them.

It seems that whatever Dota or the competition has that LoL doesn't Riot tries to compensate with a completely unique novelty feature that no one necessarily wants.

But of course why should they care? Dota 2 seems like their main competitor, but honestly that's not how MOBAs work. It's not so much sunk cost fallacy as it is the incredibly high learning curve for both games, and how one player base will usually stick with one MOBA instead of transitioning between them at will.

This isn't so much Battlefield vs. Call of Duty, so to speak, as it is professional sport vs. professional other sport. Most players, especially the casual ones, just don't have the time or energy to learn a completely different MOBA, so the LoL player base should remain fairly stable until the game loses its luster or novelty.

tl:dr Riot Games is stuck in a state of complacency, because for them it's the smartest and most efficient choice right now.

Cosmiik · 1時間前

I'm not even a player who would use sandbox to 'grind' in and Riot's thought process behind still completely mindfucked me.

I mean... I guess they have balls for publicly declaring that.

They totally undermine the integrity of the games competitive potential. If I was a pro who had dedicated YEARS of my life to getting good at this game and some sneaky little shit from Riot tries to weasel some bullshit reasoning as to why they're deliberately holding you back I would probably just die from idiocy overload.

Imagine the absolutely ridiculous standard of play you would see at the very top level if pros could actually optimise their practice time. As a spectator it would be incredible. It's so horribly uninspiring to know that Riot doesn't want to reach out for their own game's max level of competition and not accommodate THEIR OWN PLAYERS with an efficient way to get there. They're happy to just sit there and pump out Riven skins.

Currently, 'League of Legends' is a professional competition of who can get the best practice out of a severely suboptimal set up. It's not an equation of Hard Work + Natural Talent = Results. It's just a fucking stab in the dark (solo queue/scrims) with 1000's of unnecessarily wasted hours of horribly suboptimal practice.

I'd urge the pros to start a union/threaten strikes. It's not a case of getting what they want. Their employer has openly said they want to deliberately hinder and hold back the game's competitive potential and NO ONE wants that.

If I have actually overlooked a genuine solid REASON (NOT a theoretical series of situational consequences) against sandbox mode then let me know because I can't think of one.

intergalacticvoyage · 2時間前

Lower ping, a sandbox and replays is mostly what I hear people want but its too bad they don't seem like priorities at all.

PRRKRR · 3時間前

Riot has some of the shittiest reasons for not including things in their game

gg voice chat gg sandbox gg anything that makes sense

taiyoung · 3時間前

We're getting a new client. I'll take the new client over replays.

Dodg3m · 3時間前

"Here's what we're not working on". Good job Riot.

Zaanarkand · 3時間前

About the Sandbox mode, Riot again saying "we want you to... not to..." etc...

This is unacceptable, they are acting like little dictators on how we HAVE to train. Seriously what the fuck.

Tab371 · 2時間前

So we get better Storytelling, but no Sandbox?

What a great trade, 10/10

ComfortablyNumbLoL · 2時間前

They're reasoning for no sandbox mode is HORRIBLE. I myself am I pretty competitive golf player. If I need to practice a certain part of my game, whether it be putting or chipping or driving the ball, I'm not going to go out and play as many rounds of golf as I can. I'm going to head to the putting green or the driving range and practice the shot that needs work over and over and over until I feel comfortable with it.

Terrible Reasoning. Riot disappoints again

xCBTUNA · 3時間前

Meanwhile, over at /r/dotamasterrace they are laughing their asses off at our stupidity for sticking around. This is unbelievable.

MixSaffron · 3時間前

Hahaha they put Sandbox Mode under the wrong header, silly Riot. /s

Heck, have a 'training' mode of sorts that lets you go solo or with other peoples against bots and have all timers (minion spawn, recall, summoner spells, dragon...etc) cut down by 80%. Not technically a full on Sandbox Mode but the best option as of right now is to create a custom game, flash once, then quit and you are not 'playing the game' which Riot makes sound like is the best way to 'test'.

leagueoflegends

AMAs

Subreddit Rules

Resources

Free Champions

調停者

/Thread

Sandbox Mode