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Male-Pattern Violence (offourbacks.org)

Andrea__Dworkin が 投稿

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[–]beefjerkeyy 8ポイント9ポイント  (32子コメント)

Let's see..

Username: Andrea__Dworkin

Article: Contains implied gender essentialism (not directly stated for its main point) about gendered violence.

Yep, another shitpost with stuff that doesn't really belong on a men's liberation sub. I mean come on, with phrases like:

When it comes to taking responsibility on the society-wide level, we encounter this fragile male ego writ large.

..talking about fragile male egos, which isn't even implied, but direct gender essentialism, on top of the implied essentialism of this article, this sub is going to turn to shit if we allow tripe like this to be posted without challenge.

This is second-wave horse shit, and should be treated appropriately.

[–]Andrea__Dworkin[S] -8ポイント-7ポイント  (31子コメント)

This relates based on the fact that men need to stop being violent. The only way we can "liberate" men is by addressing their violent tendencies and stopping them at a young age.

[–]Dewey_Darl 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

You realize that this is the same sort of logic /r/coontown uses, right?

[–]hadrianw 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why don't you tell that to the little Rodriguez girl? But yell it loud, else she'll never hear you from the morgue. And use simple words so she'll understand, she's only two years old.

Violence is a part of all humans, not just one gender or the other.

[–]beefjerkeyy 4ポイント5ポイント  (28子コメント)

The only way we can "liberate" men is by addressing their violent tendencies

I want you to explain why you think men automatically have violent tendencies (you didn't say some men, you said all), or why you think that the article doesn't capture the fact that men often don't report violence against them by women due to cultural influence/shaming, thereby skewing that 85%/15% result in your shitty article.

Seriously, what's with the shitposting here?

[–]AnarchCassius 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Do you think there is room to acknowledge that men do wind up being more violent in today's society? The article is crap but we do see a lot more men as victims and perpetrators of violence.

Now certainly there is a greatest tendency to deny and minimize women's violence against men and there is a large amount of evidence that police statistics minimize male victims of violence at the hands of women.

However I do think that this is an important men's issue. A huge part of male disposability is the role of men as initiators and receivers of violence. Are men more violent or are men used for violence by society? Even the orginial article confronts the issue in the sidebar "Are we afraid, as a society, that if our men shy away from violence, we will be vulnerable to the violence of other men, other cultures?"

What's funny is that in the article we are told "1. Replace the phrase “violence against women,” ... with the phrase “male violence against women” or possibly “male-pattern violence against women.”" when in fact the largest problem in terms of scope is male violence against men. So while her bias is showing, she is on to something.

This might address the issue from a perspective you find more relatable http://freethoughtblogs.com/hetpat/2014/11/15/yes-we-do-need-to-talk-about-male-violence/

[–]beefjerkeyy 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Do you think there is room to acknowledge that men do wind up being more violent in today's society?

Sure, as a consequence of harmful toxic masculinity and other cultural norms, not as some kind of essential part of them (like that quip about fragile male egos).

I pretty much agree with the rest of what you said!

[–]dangerousopinions 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Certainly social norms have an impact on the way in which male aggression expresses itself, and that's where we should focus our efforts, but far too often the discussion is absurdly and intentionally broad. What we're really talking about is a very small percentage of men that engage in serious violence. This is not behaviour that is typical in the greater population and that's almost always the way it's discussed.

Beyond that, the ways that are suggested to tackle this don't often make any sense either. We're not going to end violence by getting men to "get in touch with their feelings" or take off the "mask" of masculinity. This is an attempt at suppressing natural energy and aggression rather than harnessing it for creative good. These might be individual approaches, but it's not a solution for the masses. Violence is often linked to economics, insecurity and existing violence itself. Aside from tackling these broader issues, providing specific support for young men in high risk areas and providing outlets for aggression and risk taking is much more realistic than trying to get them to sit down and talk about their feelings.

In short, I think it's importantly to accurately define the problem and acknowledge reality rather than trying to apply what is largely academic philosophy whether it lines up with that reality or not.