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Israel/PalestineA massive gate unearthed in Israel may have marked the entrance to a biblical city that, at its heyday, was the biggest metropolis in the region. (livescience.com)
ShakoWasAngry が 1日前 投稿
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[–]ozziedog -50ポイント-49ポイント-48ポイント 23時間前 (36子コメント)
May, could and might. How about not at all? Ancient Israel was in Saudi Arabia.
[–]mousefire55 30ポイント31ポイント32ポイント 22時間前 (26子コメント)
Er, what? Could we have a source on this please that doesn't come from crackpotinc.com
[+]ozziedog スコアが基準値未満のコメント-23ポイント-22ポイント-21ポイント 22時間前 (25子コメント)
Look up Kamal Salibi from the University of Beirut. He uses linguistic analysis in reference to biblical story to put ancient Israel in Saudi Arabia just south of Mecca. Good luck finding any archeological evidence though. No digs allowed in Saudi Arabia.
Essentially 3000 years ago, Israelis were another Arab tribe in the region that embraced monotheism. Conquered by the Assyrians, they were released by Persia into what is now modern day Israel.
And these points: 1) Mecca and the Kabaa. The Arabs believe Abraham built this and the regional veneration of Abraham existed even before Islam. 2) The food laws for Muslims and Jews are virtually identical. Plus the old testament and the Koran sound a lot alike in terms of intolerance and absolutism. 3) The queen of Sheba is thought to have come from Yemen. That's next door. Today's Israel is a thousand miles north. 4) Zero evidence of the old temple or any Israeli writing in today's Israel despite all the digging. So either the bible was a story made up by a small group of pre-literate people living in modern day Israel or it is a history of a literate people that came from somewhere else.
Mind you I am not saying that modern Israel is not a legitimate country. I'm just saying that it is not the land of the patriarchs.
[–]mousefire55 20ポイント21ポイント22ポイント 21時間前 (3子コメント)
2) The food laws for Muslims and Jews are virtually identical. Plus the old testament and the Koran sound a lot alike in terms of intolerance and absolutism.
Isn't this because Mohammed basically copied the food laws of the Jews, as well as good chunks of their theological ideas?
[–]ReddJudicata 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 14時間前 (0子コメント)
Yes.
[+]ozziedog スコアが基準値未満のコメント-10ポイント-9ポイント-8ポイント 19時間前 (1子コメント)
The thing is that Mohammed had to sway the local populace to his ideas. You can't just change the way people live wholesale and expect it to take. Circumcision was even before Judaism and probably the food laws were already there as well. Ever wonder why a crescent moon is on so many Islamic flags? It was a carry over from the previous worship of a moon god that held sway since early Mesopotamia. Look at Christianity. There was no way Arabian food rules (no pork especially) was going to fly in Europe. Circumcision didn't take either. Religions are built on the foundations of the former faiths.
[–]JacktheStripper5 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 18時間前 (0子コメント)
Culturally opportunistic perfect Devine revelation. Nice.
[–]MissingNo1028 23ポイント24ポイント25ポイント 21時間前 (17子コメント)
You realize that islam as a religion didnt exist until about 2500 years after the time of Abraham. I dont know why you think that any relation between Judaism and Islam would have roots that far back. The jews were in Israel. Modern day israel.
This guy's making too bold a claim by saying that Israel was in the Arabian Peninsula but he is onto something. There were large Jewish populations across the region prior to Islam. Arabian religion was much more fluid at that time, with the modern day Kabaa serving as a worship sight to some animistic dirty or dieties. It's entirely possible that Abraham would have been lumped into that group.
[+]ozziedog スコアが基準値未満のコメント-13ポイント-12ポイント-11ポイント 20時間前 (15子コメント)
"You realize that islam as a religion didnt exist until about 2500 years after the time of Abraham."
Yes I do realize that. "regional veneration of Abraham existed even before Islam".
"I dont know why you think that any relation between Judaism and Islam would have roots that far back."
I don't. I'm saying Judaism and Arabs have roots that far back.
"The jews were in Israel. Modern day israel."
Sadly neither one of us has proof of where ancient Israel existed. Just because lots of people think it was there or want it to be there is not proof.
[–]dezradeath 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント 19時間前 (14子コメント)
You know that giant Western Wall that the Jews pray to in Israel??? That is what remains of the ancient temple that was destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans. Do I need to be more clear? ISRAEL
[–]ozziedog -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 17時間前 (0子コメント)
That was the second temple. Absolutely zero evidence of the first temple before that. Nothing. No remnants of a foundation within, under or near the second temple. Nothing. How could that be? The legend is that the second temple was built around the first but there is nothing at all from that time save dirt. Was it that the Babylonians were more extreme and thorough at destruction than anyone before or since? Seriously. So if there was no first temple there was it fantasy of the imagination or did it exist somewhere else?
[+]subermanification スコアが基準値未満のコメント-7ポイント-6ポイント-5ポイント 19時間前* (12子コメント)
The western wall was created during Herod's time as a surrounding to the supposed original site of the first temple. The western wall was made during the Roman occupation. Not sure where you are getting your facts.
Edit: People are mistakenly thinking I am trying to add support to the claim ancient Israel was in Arabia and not the Levant.
Edit 2: The people downvoting me are both wrong and stupid.
[–]SamuraiAccountant 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 19時間前 (11子コメント)
So you think that in the 70 year period between when the Jews were exiled to Babylon and returned to Israel, that they completely got the region mixed up and went to a new country? Not to mention the Jews that stayed behind and weren't exiled. That is a ridiculous claim you made with no historical basis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity
[–]subermanification -5ポイント-4ポイント-3ポイント 18時間前 (6子コメント)
Cheers for downvoting me.. I think you've replied to the wrong comment. The Babylonians sacks ancient Israel in like ~560BC. The Romans ~500 years later. The Babylonians sacked the First Temple, the Romans sacked and levelled the second. When Israel was a vassal of Rome, during the occupation that is when the wall, of which only the Western wall remains, was built.
[–]SamuraiAccountant 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 18時間前 (5子コメント)
Not sure why you think on a site with thousands of people, that I am the one that downvoted you. Anyhow, I am not disputing what you said, just that to act as if somehow the wall is in some different country is just stupid. I think you overreacted to dezradeaths comment.
[+]ozziedog スコアが基準値未満のコメント-7ポイント-6ポイント-5ポイント 16時間前 (3子コメント)
Have you read the bible? If you did you might notice that the Israelites did not get along well with their neighbors. Do you think after a 70 year absence that they would just get their neighborhood back? Hasn't worked for the Palestinians. Israel got what Persia gave them. Only the Persians had the force to put people where they wanted them in their empire. True I have no historical basis for this but neither do you. Before the Assyrian conquest there is no historical evidence of Israel anywhere.
[–]SamuraiAccountant 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 16時間前 (2子コメント)
Have you read the Bible or the history books? Do you know what happened during that 70 year period? It was quite clearly delineated what happened during that period. First off many Jews were still in that area, mainly the leadership was exiled to Babylon, and the wealthy. The Babylonians moved a new people into the land, who became known as the Samaritans. They were getting killed by wild animals, and did a half conversion type thing to Judaism in the belief that it would protect them from the god of the land. But yes, King Cyrus absolutely let the Jews have their "neighborhood" back when they returned. They were able to rebuild their Temple and live there for another 500 years or so, and their next exile had nothing to do with Babylon. Literally everything I said has historic basis to it. And what you said makes no sense logically and historically.
[–]jihadstloveseveryone 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Couple of corrections.
Yes supposedly Abraham build the Kabaa, but is is also known that the place he built it was far away from his home. He exiled his slave wife and new born son Ismael in the middle of some desert and build the Kabaa there.
Islam and Judaism sounds very similar because it is basically the same thing.
Queen of Sheba wasn't next door in the stories, she was from a distant kingdom with a very different culture.
[–]Kamal965 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 20時間前 (0子コメント)
Heh, surprised to see my father's friend mentioned here of all places.
[–]ReddJudicata 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 14時間前 (0子コメント)
Literally everything in this comment is wrong.
[–]yuksare 17ポイント18ポイント19ポイント 20時間前 (8子コメント)
The theory was universally rejected, and, according to Itamar Rabinowitz, had embarrassed many of his colleagues. Several academic reviewers criticised Cape for having accepted "The Bible Came from Arabia" for publication.[16][17][18]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamal_Salibi#Arabian_Judah_theory
Just another pseudoscientific theory. There are A LOT of conspiracies, myths, and pseudoscientific theories about Jews. It's just another one.
[–]Kaghuros 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント 20時間前 (6子コメント)
Sounds like a way to discredit the Jewish claim to Judea/Israel in the eyes of gullible Saudis.
[–]Zenarchist 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 19時間前 (3子コメント)
Or as proof(!) that the kaaba was built by Abraham and therefore all of Islam is exactly accurate.
[–]Kaghuros 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 19時間前 (0子コメント)
People really think that?
I always thought it was a bit kooky that the largest holy site in Islam was a pagan altar built by locals to hold a meteorite. But I guess believing that it's not is a way to not be an idolater/apostate.
[–]ozziedog 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 16時間前 (0子コメント)
All the Abrahamic faiths are full of shit. I was only pointing out that before Islam, Abraham was venerated in the region by pagans there as well.
[–]eu_is_garbage 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 12時間前 (0子コメント)
checkmate
[–]ozziedog -3ポイント-2ポイント-1ポイント 16時間前 (1子コメント)
The Saudi's would NOT place Israel in Saudi Arabia. Lets say that evidence was found that placed ancient Israel in Saudi Arabia. Would you think that Israel should uproot itself and move wholesale to Saudi Arabia? It doesn't matter why Israel is where it is, it only matters that it is there. All kinds of people for all kinds of reasons have wound up where they are now and we don't question their legitimacy. Israel's legitimacy comes not from a book but from the reality of it is there.
[–]Kaghuros 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 15時間前 (0子コメント)
Of course. Israel is here to stay, but there is so much FUD spread around the Muslim world purporting to be proof that Jews are colonizers and all sorts of idiocy. The problem is not Israel's sovereignty, the problem is that Arabs and other Muslims, and even many non-Muslims in Europe and the U.S., believe that rhetoric and believe that Israel should be destroyed or sanctioned on that account.
[–]ozziedog -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 16時間前 (0子コメント)
Actually it's not a theory but a hypothesis. To prove it you would need evidence of which there is none. A few archeological digs in the region might prove or disprove his hypothesis but the Saudi's wont allow it because they don't want to believe that Jews were once Arabians any more than the Jews do. However there is also no proof of Israeli occupation of Israel before the Assyrian conquest either even after archeologists have thoroughly dug the region. You will see erroneous headlines like this that say so and so place is this biblical location but that is merely wishful thinking.
π Rendered by PID 29509 on app-40 at 2015-08-05 15:07:47.247095+00:00 running 2827255 country code: JP.
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