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[–]sizzlinsausages 39ポイント40ポイント  (108子コメント)

Can you imagine how much public uproar and huge extra funding would be funneled into it if it was 83% women?

Men are the disposable gender. They constitute the vast majority of homelessness, drug overdoses, suicides, imprisonment, assault victims, job casualties and fatalities, and war casualties, yet all we ever hear about is the plight of women and how hard they have it compared to men.

[–]smudge33 16ポイント17ポイント  (68子コメント)

Also the last ones out of danger in emergencies, the one to check if the house is being broken into, the one who runs into the burning buildings. In the US, more men are raped than women. Oh the patriarchy.

[–]small_havoc 25ポイント26ポイント  (1子コメント)

The one to suck up the spider with the hoover, the one to open that stubborn jar of jam - if the matriarchy take over, it'll be jars of spiders for everyone. :(

[–]Mr_Hank_Scorpio 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

if the matriarchy take over, it'll be jars of spiders for everyone

That's ideal. No one will be able to open the jars leaving the spiders nicely contained.

[–]ptar86 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

In the US, more men are raped than women.

Wait, what? Is this a prison thing?

[–]smudge33 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not prison alone, men can also be raped, statutory or forced penetration. An erection does not equal consent, though this been held as proof of consent in courts. Not only this, but male victims of rape have been forced to make child support payments to their assailants. Men have had their sperm stolen from condoms and used for impregnation and then made to pay child support payments.

[–]ihateirony -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

That's the thing. Patriarchy can be harmful to men in a lot of ways as well.

[–]MullerReus 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

The Patriarchy doesn't exist though so no need to worry.

[–]lord_addictus -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

True, but it does have a nice ring to it as a word.

[–]ihateirony -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Patriarchy is a description of a process, not an actual thing.

Edit: Sigh: Please google before you downvote based on your understanding of "The patriarchy", rather than patriarchy, which is the thing that is discussed in feminism:

Patriarchy is a social system in which males hold primary power, predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchy

[–]aoifbuscus -2ポイント-1ポイント  (39子コメント)

Don't run into burning buildings if you're not trained to do so. But since men apparently are constantly going into them, I guess that means all men are complete retards then, yeah? Since we're all about generalising genders now.

[–]smudge33 1ポイント2ポイント  (38子コメント)

Where are the feminists in an emergency situation? I know the gender role I am socially required to adopt means if I'm able to go into a building to potentially save other people, especially women, then I am a coward if I don't act on that. Is the same true of women?

[–]wiki_wild 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

I am socially required to adopt

Nope. If this was the case, then all women would still be in the home.

[–]smudge33 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

No, that's sexist! When was the last time it was considered OK to let your wife go and check if there's a robber in the house?

[–]wiki_wild 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

My wife would NOT want me to go and check for a burglar, nor would I want her to go and check.

It's slightly different in my household because I've trained in martial arts for years, so would feel comfortable doing so. But she still would definitely not want me to do it in case I get hurt. And I should note that this is the exact same reason that I don't want her to go and check - in case she gets hurt, not because she is just a woman.

The point I was making is that you're arguing that roles are set out by society and are expected to be filled by people of particular genders - if this was never challenged, women would be in the home as breeding and cleaning machines, there would be no stay-at-home fathers, single mothers would be universally shunned, etc. Because these roles were challenged by those in society, they have had to change.

If you say that you are expected to fill a role by society, it is more fool you to fill that role if you're not able or willing.

[–]smudge33 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

It would be silly for you as a man to go and send your wife down to confront a likely male intruder in your home because of the considerable strength advantages the intruder is likely to have over her. The safety of your family is on the line. Why did you do martial arts? Was it to be better able to fulfill your role as a protector for yourself and others? I am also involved in martial arts because I want to be 'able and willing' fulfill this role, as a male I am much more likely to beaten or killed. I think the role of women as 'breeding and cleaning machine' is from the era as men being 'digging and building machines'. The 'breeding and cleaning machine' ended with contraception and labour reducing technology, as did much of the digging, building and farming.

[–]wiki_wild 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why did you do martial arts? Was it to be better able to fulfill your role as a protector for yourself and others?

Fitness originally. And because I watched lots of Bruce Lee films. Nothing to do with my gender.

Even if hypothetically, the burglar was female and the same size as my wife, I still wouldn't want her to go down because I don't want her to get hurt. Same reason as she wouldn't want me to go down. I have weapons in my house (for training, but they would be perfectly usable) and could use them quite effectively and my wife knows that, but she STILL wouldn't want me to go down.

labour reducing technology

Not sure if you've been involved or in contact with anyone who has undergone labour, but the "reducing technology" is not some magic cure for labour. Often it can cause injuries and require longer recovery times than a natural birth.

[–]smudge33 -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Labour as in work, hand-washing clothes, vegetables, cooking with minimal technology are all essential parts of life that have gotten much easier to do and less time consuming with technology. This role was adopted by women as it was that or go out digging holes/doing manual labour/farming less efficiently than the man (given the scientific fact that men are on average stronger than women). Of course no one wants their significant other to face any danger, but sometimes danger has to be faced. Are you going to send your female partner who likely hasn't participated in sports since her early teens, has been subject to much less previous violence and intimidation as the male, has less muscle mass and who's gender role isn't usually one that allows martial arts weaponry training? Of course not.

[–]aoifbuscus 2ポイント3ポイント  (13子コメント)

Who genuinely thinks you are socially required to do that these days? Let me get this straight: if I saw a layman go into a burning building to try and save people I would think he's an idiot. That shit is left to the professionals who can try and find people and put out the fire safely. All you would be doing in that situation is making the firemen look for you and waste time and potentially not be able to save the others and they die. Do you really think that all men run into buildings to save people instead of calling emergency services and going to a safe location?

[–]Parraz 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Do you really think that all men run into buildings to save people instead of calling emergency services and going to a safe location?

It would depend on the situation. If it was family I certainly would (and have done) gone into a burning building.

Total stranger? not so much.

[–]wiki_wild 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Total stranger? not so much.

Coward. /s

[–]smudge33 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (10子コメント)

The layman (38) knew there was a young girl (23) in there, he knew the emergency service wouldn't be there in time as he could see the floor the girl was on was about to collapse.

The community are calling him a hero. The young girl apparently think he's an idiot.

"Privilege is invisible to those who have it"

[–]aoifbuscus 6ポイント7ポイント  (9子コメント)

I don't get your situation. The man sees the floor is about to collapse? Is he in the same room? You think a woman is more likely to not give a shit about the girl? Lol, everybody has some privilege. If you were born in a safe rich Western country where prejudice against you is minimal, you have privilege.

[–]smudge33 -1ポイント0ポイント  (8子コメント)

I'm not saying woman don't care, I'm saying that men saving women from physical distress/danger is a very old tale. The first ones on the lifeboats on the titanic, the first ones out of hostage situations. The average man is more capable of physical strength based tasks due to testosterone built muscle mass and is also more likely to take risks, also an effect of that hormone. This is known by society and we have come to expect certain acts of heroism to come from males when the situation is required, i.e, stopping muggings, burglaries, thefts, drownings, the list goes on. I'm happy about that and certainly don't want to live in a world without these heroic acts. Your privilege shows when you call them idiotic, which they very well might be.

[–]brianfitz 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

And a man who can't fulfil these regular average manly aspects of being a man might as well go top himself.

  • and im afraid i have to point out my sarcasm because this is reddit where a lot of men seem to take criticism poorly

and to quote you from earlier

Where are the feminists in an emergency situation?

is it impossible for a fireman / first respondent to be a feminist?

[–]smudge33 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (6子コメント)

I'm not exactly sure where you're getting your first line from, I never suggested that, I pointed to the hormonal make-up of the average man in comparison to that of the average woman.

It is totally possible for a fireman to be a feminist in the theoretical sense of a feminist, i.e., someone who wants equality of genders. I was using 'feminist' in the practical sense, females who want benefits for females under the guise of equality. When it comes to physical danger, men meeting it makes the most biological and common sense, it's not even debatable.

[–]AprilMaria 2ポイント3ポイント  (16子コメント)

running into a burning building? i just googled it the only story i can find of an irish man saving people from a fire is 1 a young lad who saved a baby by catching it when its mother threw it from a burning house

2 the only one i can find of a man saving a woman is when a young man saved a disabled old woman in a wheel chair. no one died in either. Considering the amount of house fires we have and house fire deaths either that idea you have going on in your head is false or we have a lot of cowards in this country.

A hero is a hero, but if some one is unable to do something and may actually make matters worse they are better off doing nothing. It doesnt make them a coward.

[–]smudge33 2ポイント3ポイント  (15子コメント)

I'm talking about any act of bravery which requires physical strength/intimidation. It's not even newsworthy, it happens all the time.

You said: "If some one is unable to do something and may actually make matters worse they are better off doing nothing. It doesnt make them a coward."

I said: "[b]if I'm able [/b] to go into a building to potentially save other people, especially women, then I am a coward if I don't act on that.

I also didn't say I was a coward if I didn't, I said it's plausible for my peers/society to wonder why I didn't perform my gender role as a man and 'be a man'.

[–]AprilMaria 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

You probably arent if you arent a fire fighter but thats a whole other discussion

You see if you are a man, for example 5 foot fuck all with arms and legs like toothpicks anyone who would expect you to preform an act of bravery is a complete and utter gobshite and it is yet more evidence of why we need to shed these gender roles.

also i needed saving twice in my life, once i was saved by another woman and once i ended up saving myself. In both cases men passed me on the street. the first one was an attempted abduction on a night out and the second was an attempted mugging. Not all men are heros and not all women are cowards but in any case if you can do some thing good on you if you cant theres no shame in it.

[–]smudge33 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

I totally agree with you, I want to reiterate I never said women are cowards or anything of the sort, the bravest person I know is a woman. Lots of cowardly men and women out there, we lack any initiation into adulthood but that's another discussion. What I'm saying is generally speaking, men's level of 'capable of help' in a physical sense, is higher than that of a woman's and men are often expected to 'man up' 'step up and be a man' etc.. I'm not saying I agree with this, I'm just saying that it is often an expectation that is often enjoyed by women and rarely acknowledged as anything extraordinary. You get a thanks or whatever, it's expected.

[–]AprilMaria 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Well thats true, im 5 ft 2 i really dont see myself being able to drag a fully grown man out of a river or a burning house or anywhere else to be honest. I got lucky the time that i was nearly mugged in that it was a short arsed Roma Gypsy doing the mugging and the fact i was smoking (stuck a lit ciggarette in him and then punched him in the nose while he was in shock which gave me a chance to get away, pure instinct i dont know to this day how it worked so well)

but what do you propose as a mode of change? It is a simple fact that most men are bigger and stronger than most women although there are exceptions.

[–]smudge33 -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

To be honest, I just want it kept in conversation. There's a crazy trend of 'social justice warriors' that are saying things like 'fuck masculinity'. Men are being attacked in all kinds ways that aren't even being picked up on by society and need some kind of representation. Not every male is a CEO or politician. That and urinating standing up is basically where the 'male privilege' stops. Step into a family court and check out the male privilege there.

[–]AprilMaria -2ポイント-1ポイント  (7子コメント)

also where the hell do you get the idea that more men are raped than women in the USA? I am intrigued

[–]smudge33 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

In 2008, it was estimated 216,000 inmates were sexually assaulted while serving time, according to the Department of Justice figures. That is compared to 90,479 rape cases outside of prison.

Why aren't feminists, an organisation that is supposedly for the equality of genders saying anything about this? Because men are thought of as better able to defend themselves, should 'man up' and 'be a man', maybe?

[–]Parraz 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

To add to that point, that 216k number is only those in the prison system, men are raped outside of prison too but the numbers are unreported.

[–]wiki_wild 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

One important point to note is the number of rape cases that go unreported by female victims due to intimidation and fear. I don't know the proportion of those, but that 90k would surely rise considerably.

Do you know the number of reported rape cases in prisons in Ireland by the way? The prison population in the states is enormous compared to here.

[–]smudge33 -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

That number factors in the estimated unreported numbers on both sides, also a huge number in males for the same reasons and more. It's more than twice as many! Women are also as violent if not more violent as males to their partners according to studies.

[–]AprilMaria -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sorry for the late reply i went away to bed for myself. I looked it up, 1) That study took all sexual assault statistics from the prisons and compared them only to full rape statistics 2) some of those prisoners are women and a female prisoner twice as likely to be raped than a male prisoner 3)the distinction of the highest rate of rape in the USA goes to a womens prison in Oklahoma

while it is quite possible that more male prisoners are raped in the USA than women in general the statistics are nowhere near as gaped as that and it is only the fact that more men than women are imprisoned, a female prisoner is statistically more likely to be raped than a male prisoner. the plight of all prisoners are ignored by the US government which they use very profitably as slave labor which is why the US has the highest prison population in the entire world. Its bad for business for these statistics to come out and that is why the government fought left right and center to stop them being released. also did you hear that there is such a shortage of sanitary items in female prisions that women are forced to wear the same pads for days and toilet paper is also so strictly rationed that makeshift towels are out of the question, they are also not given sufficient showers, and that news is also very hard to find, i dont think very many people are aware of it at all.

[–]MJ-XX [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

You're so ignorant and misguided it hurts to read what you're spouting.

[–]smudge33 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Another solid and well-constructed argument!

[–]MJ-XX [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Wouldnt waste my time tbh. I'm too tired and occupied with my work and stuff

[–]smudge33 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

10/10 thanks for the contribution. Don't forget your down-vote while you're here!

[–]MJ-XX 6ポイント7ポイント  (37子コメント)

Men are the disposable gender.

Male suicide is a serious issue, but saying they're a disposable gender is the biggest load of shit ever, and is very VERY shortsighted considering the huge amount of issues women face in similar aspects. Male privilege is a thing despite how reactionary redditors hate to hear about it.

[–]sizzlinsausages 8ポイント9ポイント  (32子コメント)

Explain what you mean by "male privilege".

[–]smudge33 2ポイント3ポイント  (30子コメント)

These people don't communicate via debate, only initial input and then censorship.

[–]small_havoc -1ポイント0ポイント  (29子コメント)

Horseshit. People just get too defensive when they hear they're privileged in whatever area, they get all emosh and then dismiss what's actually perfectly logical ("but I work so hard, my life was so shit, how dare they say I'm privileged when I struggled" etc). We have to be able to recognise where and why we're better off than others, otherwise we'd have stunted empathy. It just takes a little cop on and acceptance.

[–]smudge33 0ポイント1ポイント  (28子コメント)

Could you please include an argument next time, one with references to documented reality, thanks!

[–]small_havoc -2ポイント-1ポイント  (27子コメント)

I don't understand what's confusing you pet? Can't you google it? It's might surprise you, but I'm actually a living library or your personal professor.

Actually, why don't you tell me what you think I mean when I say male privilege? Or female. We all have different types. What do you think it means?

[–]smudge33 1ポイント2ポイント  (26子コメント)

"These people don't communicate via debate" was my point and you're proving it.

[–]small_havoc -1ポイント0ポイント  (25子コメント)

No, you're demanding sources. That actually doesn't happen in a debate - and this is a conversation between just us. I don't represent all people you'd call "SJWs", and you don't represent all people I'd call "Ignorant Brats". Besides, demanding sources for opinions is just your way to dismiss any argument, so that you never even have to debate in the first place, while squarely putting all that responsibility for that failure on your opponent. You're deflecting man. You're censoring before you start and blaming anyone else.

What do you think Male Privilege means? You don't seem to have an idea, just an emotional reaction.

edit: Never mind, I see from your other comments you're nothing but a troll. Someone else has literally spelled it out for you, sources and all - proving you don't give a FUCK about sources, because once you have them, you literally ignore it!! You're just using it as a trolling device. Go fuck thyself, for thou art a fucking asshole. Hey but your Karma is nearly down to 420 so...

[–]smudge33 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

You have yet to make even one point small_havoc.

[–]sizzlinsausages -2ポイント-1ポイント  (15子コメント)

You sure use a great deal of words to say absolutely nothing.

Are you testing out a new keyboard or something? Or are you just clueless yet trying (in vain) to sound smart?

[–]Profix 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not a competition. Males are generally considered the disposable gender, this is a fact, gender roles are the reason. Gender roles give men an advantage in many places, but being disposable is a real issue. Doesn't have to be a competition when the root cause is the same.

[–]lord_addictus -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Male privilege is a thing

Oh boy, here we go...

[–]smudge33 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's a lot of biological reasoning behind why men are the disposable gender. One man can happily and free from pain impregnate every woman in a society if needs be.

Female privilege is most certainly a thing also, though in our society, you are much more likely to be called a sexist if you delve into that.

[–]smudge33 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

saying they're a disposable gender is the biggest load of shit ever, and is very VERY shortsighted considering the huge amount of issues women face in similar aspects

Males have always been dead last when it comes to the question 'who gets to survive'.

  1. "Women and children first!"
  2. 93% of deaths in the workplace are men
  3. Men are 3 times more likely to be murdered than women
  4. 85% of suicides are men

Females are the limiting factor of any species. Biologically, one man can do the work of 100's of monogamous men. In history, women have been protected by society for this reason, in order for the species to survive. Females have been protected as objectified prized sexual assets, males have been objectified as disposable toy soldiers and protectors of communities.

The woman wins every time when it comes to 'who gets to survive?', because we wouldn't be here if we didn't do this in the past.