全 160 件のコメント

[–]Dhera 42ポイント43ポイント  (131子コメント)

83% of deaths were men. Jesus.

[–]Yerwun 17ポイント18ポイント  (7子コメント)

It's one of the big paradoxes of psychology that depression is twice as common in women as men, but the majority of 'successful' suicides are men. Women's attempts tend to 'fail' more often, as they're more inclined to opt for methods such as overdose instead of violent methods like guns.

[–]khamiltoe 21ポイント22ポイント  (6子コメント)

What you stated isn't a paradox, nor is it a great unknown in psychology. There are a few broad theories that are fighting it out in academic journals and conferences across the world.

Interestingly, clinical+longitudinal studies seem to indicate that there isn't a noticeable difference in prevalence of depression rates between genders. Families are more likely to report females as being depressed, and females seem more likely both to identify as depressed, and to seek medical attention for such.

[–]Yerwun 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

I wasn't saying it was an unknown, just a potentially surprising fact that people not in the field may not know. We don't really know to what degree under-diagnosis is an issue for men with depression, but atm the lifetime prevalence rates are still generally said to be approx 1 in 6 for men and 1 in 3 for women in most clinical resources, based on sound meta-analyses of diagnosis rates.

[–]khamiltoe 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

It isn't a paradox. A paradox is something that appears to contradict itself - men being more likely to successfully (ugh) commit suicide then women isn't a paradox, nor a contradiction of anything.

There is still no firm diagnosis of depression.

The latest edition of the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) lists the following as the standard to follow when diagnosing depression:

Diagnostic Criteria for Major Depressive Disorder and Depressive Episodes DSM-IV Criteria for Major Depressive Disorder (MDD)

*Depressed mood or a loss of interest or pleasure in daily activities for more than two weeks.

*Mood represents a change from the person's baseline.

*Impaired function: social, occupational, educational.

*Specific symptoms, at least 5 of these 9, present nearly every day:

  1. Depressed mood or irritable most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful).

  2. Decreased interest or pleasure in most activities, most of each day

  3. Significant weight change (5%) or change in appetite

  4. Change in sleep: Insomnia or hypersomnia

  5. Change in activity: Psychomotor agitation or retardation

  6. Fatigue or loss of energy

  7. Guilt/worthlessness: Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt

  8. Concentration: diminished ability to think or concentrate, or more indecisiveness

  9. Suicidality: Thoughts of death or suicide, or has suicide plan

It is then ranked either Mild, Moderate or Severe and rates impairment on six domains (Family, School/Work, etc)

A psychiatrist by the name of Daniel Goldberg noted that

“A patient who has psychomotor retardation, hypersomnia, and gaining weight is scored as having identical symptoms as another who is agitated, sleeping badly, and has weight loss,”

Depression is a syndrome rather than a disease, the difference being that a disease has a common cause and traits, while a syndrome is a collection of symptoms and effects that tend to happen together but with no known common cause.

Why all this? Because it shows just how subjective the diagnosis of depression is, and why statistics that are derived from tens of thousands of different doctors with different views, beliefs and biases treating millions of patients over tens of years are...potentially terribly inaccurate. Scrap the potentially, are terribly inaccurate. All large scale studies (on hundreds of thousands of patients treated for depression) have found no common causes. No common events. No specific co-morbidities. Every study that I have read or heard of backs up that, as stands, depression is assessed and treated on a mostly subjective basis.

Therefore, a population of individuals who are monitored, assessed and treated by a common set of psychiatrists with a common diagnostic method and categorisation is more interesting, more accurate and potentially more relevant.

[–]Gaelmart 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ha. I score 90% on that test but there's nothing I can do about it. Don't worry not a sob story.

I went to Doctor 5 years ago. He sent me to local phyc. So there I was a local 38yo in a small town, sitting in an office with the other town 'nuts' and now they all knew I was a 'nut'.

There is no suicide help for young(ish :-)) men in Ireland.

I'm intelligent enough not to be swept up by it. I can stand outside myself, say 'fuck it', 'seize the day' etc and send the fucked up version of me on a mission to the doctor or whatever. But its exhausting and not bloke friendly and I'll not do it again.

I live on my own, I have no friends, I have Asperger's so typical quite lad, 'keeps to himself' (defo serial killer of suicide victim :-)) etc. I know people are just waiting for me to 'pop off' but being smart enough to be self aware, I refuse to become a statistic. However i CAN see that there is nowhere to turn for a 'bloke' like me. Also this is compounded by the fact that I'm the funniest fucker you'll meet on the surface.

All we ever see is pile of women sitting about having meetings about the awful suicide rates and planning another meeting with buns and tea this time. All this has NO relevance to a lad that steps of a tractor in the arse hole of nowhere Ireland, and thinks 'I'm wasting my time, I'm fucked and whats the point'.

No I don't know what the cure is and it IS good that people are trying to help but most of whats been done is useless for actually helping a 'bloke'.

[–]Yerwun 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

What are you even talking about? I never claimed depression had a universal cause or identical features in everyone; we all know it doesn't. However the current diagnostic system is what has been found to work best so far, and you can't just declare all current literature on the subject invalid because you believe it should have been done differently.

I was making a comment on Reddit, not writing a paper, and the discrepancy between male-female depression and suicide rates would appear paradoxical to those who don't know much about the issue. Hence why I went on to explain a large cause of the 'paradox'.

Btw, the latest edition of the DSM is 5, not 4, and it is not particularly well regarded in Europe, where many favour the ICD now. The criteria for depression are very similar though.

[–]khamiltoe 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I never stated that all literature is invalid. I stated that small studies have shown that the prevalence of depression between genders is roughly equal. You then talked about 'sound meta-analyses of diagnosis rates' and I explained how they weren't particularly useful or illuminating. Please do try argue against what I actually posted, rather than what you invent so that you can be right on the subject.

I'm well aware of what the latest version of the DSM is, as I happen to have a copy. Unfortunately typos happen :) DSM is more used than ICD in Ireland btw, both in clinical, academic and research settings (I have some experience of all 3).

You still don't understand what a paradox is, but at this stage I don't think that you're going to accept that it doesn't mean what you think it does. "people who exercise eat more calories than people who don't exercise yet are slimmer PARADOX"

[–]Yerwun 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I do indeed understand what a paradox is, and as I've said, I am aware that the male-female difference in depression rates and suicide is not actually a paradox, because it has an explanation. However I called it one initially because that is how it would appear at first, before an explanation. This is a fairly common thing to do.

Perhaps we move in different circles, but with the latest DSM being so controversial, I have seen it be replaced increasingly.

My research focus isn't depression, but as for the male-female depression rates, you are the one going against the manuals and textbooks, so the burden of proof is on you there. I would be genuinely interested in seeing these studies, bearing in mind that there is a reason we don't generally use small studies to establish these things.

Other than that, I'm about done.

[–]sizzlinsausages 40ポイント41ポイント  (108子コメント)

Can you imagine how much public uproar and huge extra funding would be funneled into it if it was 83% women?

Men are the disposable gender. They constitute the vast majority of homelessness, drug overdoses, suicides, imprisonment, assault victims, job casualties and fatalities, and war casualties, yet all we ever hear about is the plight of women and how hard they have it compared to men.

[–]smudge33 12ポイント13ポイント  (68子コメント)

Also the last ones out of danger in emergencies, the one to check if the house is being broken into, the one who runs into the burning buildings. In the US, more men are raped than women. Oh the patriarchy.

[–]small_havoc 26ポイント27ポイント  (1子コメント)

The one to suck up the spider with the hoover, the one to open that stubborn jar of jam - if the matriarchy take over, it'll be jars of spiders for everyone. :(

[–]Mr_Hank_Scorpio 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

if the matriarchy take over, it'll be jars of spiders for everyone

That's ideal. No one will be able to open the jars leaving the spiders nicely contained.

[–]ptar86 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

In the US, more men are raped than women.

Wait, what? Is this a prison thing?

[–]smudge33 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not prison alone, men can also be raped, statutory or forced penetration. An erection does not equal consent, though this been held as proof of consent in courts. Not only this, but male victims of rape have been forced to make child support payments to their assailants. Men have had their sperm stolen from condoms and used for impregnation and then made to pay child support payments.

[–]ihateirony -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

That's the thing. Patriarchy can be harmful to men in a lot of ways as well.

[–]MullerReus 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

The Patriarchy doesn't exist though so no need to worry.

[–]lord_addictus -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

True, but it does have a nice ring to it as a word.

[–]ihateirony -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Patriarchy is a description of a process, not an actual thing.

Edit: Sigh: Please google before you downvote based on your understanding of "The patriarchy", rather than patriarchy, which is the thing that is discussed in feminism:

Patriarchy is a social system in which males hold primary power, predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchy

[–]MullerReus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The Patriarchy like Communism doesn't exist.

[–]aoifbuscus -1ポイント0ポイント  (39子コメント)

Don't run into burning buildings if you're not trained to do so. But since men apparently are constantly going into them, I guess that means all men are complete retards then, yeah? Since we're all about generalising genders now.

[–]smudge33 0ポイント1ポイント  (38子コメント)

Where are the feminists in an emergency situation? I know the gender role I am socially required to adopt means if I'm able to go into a building to potentially save other people, especially women, then I am a coward if I don't act on that. Is the same true of women?

[–]wiki_wild 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

I am socially required to adopt

Nope. If this was the case, then all women would still be in the home.

[–]smudge33 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

No, that's sexist! When was the last time it was considered OK to let your wife go and check if there's a robber in the house?

[–]wiki_wild 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

My wife would NOT want me to go and check for a burglar, nor would I want her to go and check.

It's slightly different in my household because I've trained in martial arts for years, so would feel comfortable doing so. But she still would definitely not want me to do it in case I get hurt. And I should note that this is the exact same reason that I don't want her to go and check - in case she gets hurt, not because she is just a woman.

The point I was making is that you're arguing that roles are set out by society and are expected to be filled by people of particular genders - if this was never challenged, women would be in the home as breeding and cleaning machines, there would be no stay-at-home fathers, single mothers would be universally shunned, etc. Because these roles were challenged by those in society, they have had to change.

If you say that you are expected to fill a role by society, it is more fool you to fill that role if you're not able or willing.

[–]smudge33 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

It would be silly for you as a man to go and send your wife down to confront a likely male intruder in your home because of the considerable strength advantages the intruder is likely to have over her. The safety of your family is on the line. Why did you do martial arts? Was it to be better able to fulfill your role as a protector for yourself and others? I am also involved in martial arts because I want to be 'able and willing' fulfill this role, as a male I am much more likely to beaten or killed. I think the role of women as 'breeding and cleaning machine' is from the era as men being 'digging and building machines'. The 'breeding and cleaning machine' ended with contraception and labour reducing technology, as did much of the digging, building and farming.

[–]wiki_wild 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why did you do martial arts? Was it to be better able to fulfill your role as a protector for yourself and others?

Fitness originally. And because I watched lots of Bruce Lee films. Nothing to do with my gender.

Even if hypothetically, the burglar was female and the same size as my wife, I still wouldn't want her to go down because I don't want her to get hurt. Same reason as she wouldn't want me to go down. I have weapons in my house (for training, but they would be perfectly usable) and could use them quite effectively and my wife knows that, but she STILL wouldn't want me to go down.

labour reducing technology

Not sure if you've been involved or in contact with anyone who has undergone labour, but the "reducing technology" is not some magic cure for labour. Often it can cause injuries and require longer recovery times than a natural birth.

[–]aoifbuscus 3ポイント4ポイント  (13子コメント)

Who genuinely thinks you are socially required to do that these days? Let me get this straight: if I saw a layman go into a burning building to try and save people I would think he's an idiot. That shit is left to the professionals who can try and find people and put out the fire safely. All you would be doing in that situation is making the firemen look for you and waste time and potentially not be able to save the others and they die. Do you really think that all men run into buildings to save people instead of calling emergency services and going to a safe location?

[–]Parraz 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Do you really think that all men run into buildings to save people instead of calling emergency services and going to a safe location?

It would depend on the situation. If it was family I certainly would (and have done) gone into a burning building.

Total stranger? not so much.

[–]wiki_wild 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Total stranger? not so much.

Coward. /s

[–]smudge33 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (10子コメント)

The layman (38) knew there was a young girl (23) in there, he knew the emergency service wouldn't be there in time as he could see the floor the girl was on was about to collapse.

The community are calling him a hero. The young girl apparently think he's an idiot.

"Privilege is invisible to those who have it"

[–]aoifbuscus 7ポイント8ポイント  (9子コメント)

I don't get your situation. The man sees the floor is about to collapse? Is he in the same room? You think a woman is more likely to not give a shit about the girl? Lol, everybody has some privilege. If you were born in a safe rich Western country where prejudice against you is minimal, you have privilege.

[–]smudge33 -1ポイント0ポイント  (8子コメント)

I'm not saying woman don't care, I'm saying that men saving women from physical distress/danger is a very old tale. The first ones on the lifeboats on the titanic, the first ones out of hostage situations. The average man is more capable of physical strength based tasks due to testosterone built muscle mass and is also more likely to take risks, also an effect of that hormone. This is known by society and we have come to expect certain acts of heroism to come from males when the situation is required, i.e, stopping muggings, burglaries, thefts, drownings, the list goes on. I'm happy about that and certainly don't want to live in a world without these heroic acts. Your privilege shows when you call them idiotic, which they very well might be.

[–]brianfitz 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

And a man who can't fulfil these regular average manly aspects of being a man might as well go top himself.

  • and im afraid i have to point out my sarcasm because this is reddit where a lot of men seem to take criticism poorly

and to quote you from earlier

Where are the feminists in an emergency situation?

is it impossible for a fireman / first respondent to be a feminist?

[–]AprilMaria 1ポイント2ポイント  (16子コメント)

running into a burning building? i just googled it the only story i can find of an irish man saving people from a fire is 1 a young lad who saved a baby by catching it when its mother threw it from a burning house

2 the only one i can find of a man saving a woman is when a young man saved a disabled old woman in a wheel chair. no one died in either. Considering the amount of house fires we have and house fire deaths either that idea you have going on in your head is false or we have a lot of cowards in this country.

A hero is a hero, but if some one is unable to do something and may actually make matters worse they are better off doing nothing. It doesnt make them a coward.

[–]smudge33 2ポイント3ポイント  (15子コメント)

I'm talking about any act of bravery which requires physical strength/intimidation. It's not even newsworthy, it happens all the time.

You said: "If some one is unable to do something and may actually make matters worse they are better off doing nothing. It doesnt make them a coward."

I said: "[b]if I'm able [/b] to go into a building to potentially save other people, especially women, then I am a coward if I don't act on that.

I also didn't say I was a coward if I didn't, I said it's plausible for my peers/society to wonder why I didn't perform my gender role as a man and 'be a man'.

[–]AprilMaria 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

You probably arent if you arent a fire fighter but thats a whole other discussion

You see if you are a man, for example 5 foot fuck all with arms and legs like toothpicks anyone who would expect you to preform an act of bravery is a complete and utter gobshite and it is yet more evidence of why we need to shed these gender roles.

also i needed saving twice in my life, once i was saved by another woman and once i ended up saving myself. In both cases men passed me on the street. the first one was an attempted abduction on a night out and the second was an attempted mugging. Not all men are heros and not all women are cowards but in any case if you can do some thing good on you if you cant theres no shame in it.

[–]smudge33 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

I totally agree with you, I want to reiterate I never said women are cowards or anything of the sort, the bravest person I know is a woman. Lots of cowardly men and women out there, we lack any initiation into adulthood but that's another discussion. What I'm saying is generally speaking, men's level of 'capable of help' in a physical sense, is higher than that of a woman's and men are often expected to 'man up' 'step up and be a man' etc.. I'm not saying I agree with this, I'm just saying that it is often an expectation that is often enjoyed by women and rarely acknowledged as anything extraordinary. You get a thanks or whatever, it's expected.

[–]AprilMaria 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Well thats true, im 5 ft 2 i really dont see myself being able to drag a fully grown man out of a river or a burning house or anywhere else to be honest. I got lucky the time that i was nearly mugged in that it was a short arsed Roma Gypsy doing the mugging and the fact i was smoking (stuck a lit ciggarette in him and then punched him in the nose while he was in shock which gave me a chance to get away, pure instinct i dont know to this day how it worked so well)

but what do you propose as a mode of change? It is a simple fact that most men are bigger and stronger than most women although there are exceptions.

[–]AprilMaria -2ポイント-1ポイント  (7子コメント)

also where the hell do you get the idea that more men are raped than women in the USA? I am intrigued

[–]smudge33 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

In 2008, it was estimated 216,000 inmates were sexually assaulted while serving time, according to the Department of Justice figures. That is compared to 90,479 rape cases outside of prison.

Why aren't feminists, an organisation that is supposedly for the equality of genders saying anything about this? Because men are thought of as better able to defend themselves, should 'man up' and 'be a man', maybe?

[–]Parraz 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

To add to that point, that 216k number is only those in the prison system, men are raped outside of prison too but the numbers are unreported.

[–]wiki_wild 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

One important point to note is the number of rape cases that go unreported by female victims due to intimidation and fear. I don't know the proportion of those, but that 90k would surely rise considerably.

Do you know the number of reported rape cases in prisons in Ireland by the way? The prison population in the states is enormous compared to here.

[–]AprilMaria -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sorry for the late reply i went away to bed for myself. I looked it up, 1) That study took all sexual assault statistics from the prisons and compared them only to full rape statistics 2) some of those prisoners are women and a female prisoner twice as likely to be raped than a male prisoner 3)the distinction of the highest rate of rape in the USA goes to a womens prison in Oklahoma

while it is quite possible that more male prisoners are raped in the USA than women in general the statistics are nowhere near as gaped as that and it is only the fact that more men than women are imprisoned, a female prisoner is statistically more likely to be raped than a male prisoner. the plight of all prisoners are ignored by the US government which they use very profitably as slave labor which is why the US has the highest prison population in the entire world. Its bad for business for these statistics to come out and that is why the government fought left right and center to stop them being released. also did you hear that there is such a shortage of sanitary items in female prisions that women are forced to wear the same pads for days and toilet paper is also so strictly rationed that makeshift towels are out of the question, they are also not given sufficient showers, and that news is also very hard to find, i dont think very many people are aware of it at all.

[–]MJ-XX [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

You're so ignorant and misguided it hurts to read what you're spouting.

[–]smudge33 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Another solid and well-constructed argument!

[–]MJ-XX [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Wouldnt waste my time tbh. I'm too tired and occupied with my work and stuff

[–]smudge33 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

10/10 thanks for the contribution. Don't forget your down-vote while you're here!

[–]MJ-XX 9ポイント10ポイント  (37子コメント)

Men are the disposable gender.

Male suicide is a serious issue, but saying they're a disposable gender is the biggest load of shit ever, and is very VERY shortsighted considering the huge amount of issues women face in similar aspects. Male privilege is a thing despite how reactionary redditors hate to hear about it.

[–]sizzlinsausages 8ポイント9ポイント  (32子コメント)

Explain what you mean by "male privilege".

[–]smudge33 2ポイント3ポイント  (30子コメント)

These people don't communicate via debate, only initial input and then censorship.

[–]small_havoc -1ポイント0ポイント  (29子コメント)

Horseshit. People just get too defensive when they hear they're privileged in whatever area, they get all emosh and then dismiss what's actually perfectly logical ("but I work so hard, my life was so shit, how dare they say I'm privileged when I struggled" etc). We have to be able to recognise where and why we're better off than others, otherwise we'd have stunted empathy. It just takes a little cop on and acceptance.

[–]smudge33 0ポイント1ポイント  (28子コメント)

Could you please include an argument next time, one with references to documented reality, thanks!

[–]small_havoc -2ポイント-1ポイント  (27子コメント)

I don't understand what's confusing you pet? Can't you google it? It's might surprise you, but I'm actually a living library or your personal professor.

Actually, why don't you tell me what you think I mean when I say male privilege? Or female. We all have different types. What do you think it means?

[–]smudge33 1ポイント2ポイント  (26子コメント)

"These people don't communicate via debate" was my point and you're proving it.

[–]small_havoc -1ポイント0ポイント  (25子コメント)

No, you're demanding sources. That actually doesn't happen in a debate - and this is a conversation between just us. I don't represent all people you'd call "SJWs", and you don't represent all people I'd call "Ignorant Brats". Besides, demanding sources for opinions is just your way to dismiss any argument, so that you never even have to debate in the first place, while squarely putting all that responsibility for that failure on your opponent. You're deflecting man. You're censoring before you start and blaming anyone else.

What do you think Male Privilege means? You don't seem to have an idea, just an emotional reaction.

edit: Never mind, I see from your other comments you're nothing but a troll. Someone else has literally spelled it out for you, sources and all - proving you don't give a FUCK about sources, because once you have them, you literally ignore it!! You're just using it as a trolling device. Go fuck thyself, for thou art a fucking asshole. Hey but your Karma is nearly down to 420 so...

[–]Profix 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not a competition. Males are generally considered the disposable gender, this is a fact, gender roles are the reason. Gender roles give men an advantage in many places, but being disposable is a real issue. Doesn't have to be a competition when the root cause is the same.

[–]lord_addictus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Male privilege is a thing

Oh boy, here we go...

[–]smudge33 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's a lot of biological reasoning behind why men are the disposable gender. One man can happily and free from pain impregnate every woman in a society if needs be.

Female privilege is most certainly a thing also, though in our society, you are much more likely to be called a sexist if you delve into that.

[–]smudge33 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

saying they're a disposable gender is the biggest load of shit ever, and is very VERY shortsighted considering the huge amount of issues women face in similar aspects

Males have always been dead last when it comes to the question 'who gets to survive'.

  1. "Women and children first!"
  2. 93% of deaths in the workplace are men
  3. Men are 3 times more likely to be murdered than women
  4. 85% of suicides are men

Females are the limiting factor of any species. Biologically, one man can do the work of 100's of monogamous men. In history, women have been protected by society for this reason, in order for the species to survive. Females have been protected as objectified prized sexual assets, males have been objectified as disposable toy soldiers and protectors of communities.

The woman wins every time when it comes to 'who gets to survive?', because we wouldn't be here if we didn't do this in the past.

[–]YourAulOne 22ポイント23ポイント  (4子コメント)

Suicide is a huge issue but this article is from last year.

[–]Pointlessillism 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's another boring rereg upping his karma by indiscriminately posting bucketloads of crap.

[–]ModeratorsAreDouches 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

A lot of people commit suicide because of the weather. It's called seasonal affective disorder.

[–]irish91 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

The acronym probably doesn't help either.

[–]blob-dob-11 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

"I have a case of SADS"

"ah poor lad sher a cup of tae will sort that no bother"

[–]AprilMaria 17ポイント18ポイント  (9子コメント)

Lets not turn this into a gender war, gender roles are damaging for both men and women, its just men wont admit the harm that these things do to themselves. Its pretty much universally agreed upon by the psychiatric community that men are more likely to commit suicide because they are affraid of showing emotion due to the structure of society and are thus unlikely to seek help

[–]CDfm 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

I can see the point of the gender issue because it does exist in the provision of services. It shouldn't but it does.

50% of parents are women and mothers of sons are 6 times more likely to loose a child to suicide than mothers of daughters.

[–]AprilMaria 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

It does effect provision of services, but not in a negitive way. I worked in a drugs and alcohol rehabilitation center before and there were 22 beds for women and 170 beds for men, most of the bed in the suicide watch area were for men, i think 30 were for men and 5 were for women. The problem is being addressed at front line level but there is sweet fuck all we can do about it for as long as gender roles stop men from expressing their problems. What would you like us to do? force men in for mandatory psychiatric assessment? i am finding it difficult to get irish statistics on psychiatric admissions but according to the british journal of psychiatry more hospital admissions are of men, the issue is not lack of services but lack of use of services out of shame, and negative gender roles of men need to be addressed. Men are literally killing themselves in order to maintain a strong man appearance. http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/185/4/334

[–]CDfm 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Pieta house and eating disorders will also have more facilities for women.

I imagine that issues such as homelessness affect men differently in the provision of services.

A man can fall further and faster than a woman without any supports.

The system also re enforces stereotypes and the presures on the genders are different. Relationship breakdown can leave men homeless and with maintenance obligations etc that is enforced by the state and the courts. Talking gender roles as a choice isn't realistic if those roles are part of public policy in the provision of support and services.

The Department of the Family was until recently the Department of Women and Children. Children's Allowance is paid predominantly mothers as is the single parents tax free allowance.

[–]AprilMaria 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Obviously, because more women suffer from eating disorders Where do you get Pieta house having more services for women? i cant find any reference to that. If they genuinely do i would like you to share it with me because that needs to be spread far and wide. O_o Most homeless people are men, but thats because most drug addicts and alcoholics are men and that also stems from the same problem of men having trouble coming to terms with their problems and self medicating with alcohol. they fall further and faster because of the same root cause, and it needs to be addressed but there are no magic fixes men have to change and have to open up and seek help the help and supports are there they simply are not availed of. The majority of state psychiatric services in mental hospitals and psychiatric wards for suicide are for men, they are different but one in the same they are interlinked. the fact that we have these cultural structures is the cause of most gender specific woes for both men and women also this isnt america we are living in. No one is left out on the street after a divorce. My partner and his ex wife broke up and he lost his job in the same month he wasnt homeless for a single night. He got a place to stay followed by rent allowance and the dole, court enforcable maintanance payments are calculated as a percentage of income after living expenses are calculated. I have been trough the system with him. after he got another job it was recalculated by the courts again as a percentage of income after living expenses. Men only pay over and above when they settle out of court out of fear. The courts are actually very fair if you see it trough Yes childrens allowance is predominantly paid to the mother but dole with dependent spouse increases and dependent child increases is predominantly recieved by the father, Lone parents is predominantly recieved by the mother but that is only fair, the average cost of childcare is almost equivalent to the average wage so its not like you can go to work and raise a family on the 2 to 6 thousand left over after paying for child care after a relationship breaks down, these things have to change but turning it into a gender war isnt the way to go, the patriarchy and the gender roles that go with it need to die, need to be murdered even, we cant let it slip into matriarchy but thats no where near the reality. What we need is a free and equal society where people feel safe and free and then all this suicide and rape and domestic violence will be a good way along the road to solved.

[–]nutbutterface 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd also be very interested in hearing why you believe Pieta House have more facilities for women.

[–]CDfm 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I have no problem with Pieta House, why should I.

It just niggles me that you that you say that the provision of services and supports for men is equal.( The provision of supports to Lesbians isn't equal either).

In your area of expertise, you may well be correct on therapeutic issues and I have no problem with it. Our level of suicide is shocking.

I am delighted that your partners experience of the system was so positive.

[–]AprilMaria -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes but where did you see the figures for provision of services with pieta house? I really want to see the figures because i find it hard to believe and if indeed it is the fact that there are more facilities for women then that needs to be questioned and we need to go somewhere with this and see what we can do. Its all very well sitting on our asses complaining on the internet but it gets nothing done, and if it is the case lets do something about it.

It shouldnt niggle you it is equal. Addiction centers uniformly have more places for men, so do homeless centers, places for admission for suicidal patients in state mental hospitals and in psychiatric wards of hospitals have more places for men than women. In addition my brother and I both have psychiatric issues he suffers from anxiety and clinical depression and i suffer from manic depression, my father and uncle are both alcoholics and after my father separated from my mother and my uncle separated from his wife my father moved in with my grandmother and after she died and his older brother got the house he got a council house and my uncle was more a functional alcoholic, stayed with us for a couple of weeks and then got himself an apartment. Our level of suicide is shocking but there are no easy fixes and money is being slashed left right and center from all areas of mental health, addiction services and all other services.

I am a tailor actually and i worked on a voluntary basis assisting in occupational therapy im not doing it anymore because they closed down the work shops due to lack of funding, at the same time they actually closed down the womens beds in the unit and transferred the women to another facility because the need of men in the area was greater.

Most mens are, if they dont act stupidly and bend to the will of a vindictive ex wife and actually seek help. The one area that men still have an inequality is the fact that custody is more frequently awarded to the mother, but i wouldnt call fat old male judges feminists. It comes from the view of the mother as primary carer and as i said, we need to break down ALL these gender rules in order to have genuine fairness and equality. It is what has to be done for our society to progress and considering how backward we were even in the 90s we have come on leaps and bounds. We have made 50 years progress in this country in 25 years. Hopefully it will keep going full speed ahead. actually also our young women have the highest rate of female suicide in the europe, our gender imbalance in suicide isnt as bad as most other places. A 25 year old irish woman is more likely to commit suicide than a Swedish man for example, and in male suicide we are beaten only by Latvia but in Latvia 92.1% of suicides are male. Progress is grinding on, but all we have to do is keep working, we cant let ourselves become complacent we have to keep pushing for positive change for our country and our people.

[–]Dev__ 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Its pretty much universally agreed upon by the psychiatric community

I would have expected that men commit suicide at higher rates due to a number of factors and that there wasn't a consensus by psychiatrists on a single factor influencing it. Perhaps you could provide a link to this consensus?

[–]AprilMaria -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

They do for a variety of reasons but suicide attempts are more likely to be fatal with men because they seldom seek help, go and research it yourself, there isnt any one source there are thousands of articles on the subject, just google it. the cause of suicidal thoughts and suicide attempts isnt uniform, but not seeking help is what makes such thoughts more fatal and that is seen as the leading reason for the discrepancy in gender in successful suicide attempts because actually far more women attempt suicide than men, its just that men tend to succeed in killing themselves more often. also the fact that men tend to use more violent methods of suicide, suicide by fire arm, hanging, stabbing etc where as women tend to use poison or over dosing which provides a much larger chance of discovery and resuscitation as the latter methods take longer to work

[–]ElenPaoLiberalPolice 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

Mental health services in my area were slashed down to practically nothing. From regular visits at home by nurses and regular checkups by doctors to all but one centre closing, a day hospital where everyone was put into a room so the nurses could keep an eye on ya and make sure no one harmed themselves. Only to be let loose at the end of the day. Ye can thank austerity for this lads.

[–]SoldOutBort 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Health care, both mental and physical are gone down the drain. The youth's emigrated. The country has a homeless crisis. All thanks to the current regime. But "we all partied", so only right the worst off should pay the ultimate price.

[–]petermal67 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

The number of people I know who have done this, either as friends, schoolmates, or neighbours is in double figures at this stage.

For a town of 9,000, that's far too fucking many.

[–]RoscoStigson 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's no jobs. The national passtime is consuming depressants and talking shite. It takes several months to get an appointment with a HSE counsellor and even then they might reject you. GPs haven't a fucking clue what to do anymore, they're afraid to prescribe a distressed person a single xanax in case they get in trouble. The men who took part in the international banking scam are still swanning around while the good men fester in their 100 euro a week box rooms. The homeless, mentally ill and addicted continue to roam the streets like a tragic, vanquished army even after direct contact and assurances from the head of state himself. But sure it'll be grand like. If anyone is feeling like harming themselves please talk to someone, the Samaritans are great, I was a homeless alcoholic who attempted suicide and you can talk to me too. It's not hopeless, it just feels that way, trust me.

[–]itsthemanhimself 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sure the economy is booming !

must be all the naysayers commiting suicide

[–]PlasmaMagnet 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd say that many of the people committing suicide were already on anti depressents, medication doesn't actually cure the problem it only numbs the pain like any other drug.

[–]trigger_m 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Article a year old citing 3 year old data; be interesting to contrast this with 2014 figures

[–]noisylettuce -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

The government sold our future to pay for their gambling and debt we didn't even need to repay.