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MediaFantastic Four Honest Trailer (youtube.com)

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[–]Heelincal 32ポイント33ポイント  (40子コメント)

Because doing it just for the sake of diversity trivializes it.

"Why can't we have a black spider-man?"

Because he's a white character. Why don't we use one of the awesome black superheroes? Or why not write a new, awesome character who just happens to be black?

Forcing diversity for diversity's sake is more demeaning than it is honorable. Jordan won't be "the human torch" when people reference the series now, he'll be "the black human torch."

[–]deanykg 33ポイント34ポイント  (7子コメント)

A black Spider Man could be fine. A black Peter Parker wouldn't. Stan Lee himself even says this: Peter Parker is a long-established character but Spider Man is a title which can change.

But shoehorning in diversity for the sake of trying to look progressive is cheap and lazy and doesn't take diversity issues seriously.

Take a look at the new Ms. Marvel. Kamala is a much different character from the previous wearer of that mantle but she has received the necessary character development to make that change work. Because she is such a great new character she has been very well received. Even the most neckbearded white comic book nerds I know have been enjoying her story.

On the other hand, the new Thor has been suffering from absolutely shit writing that has amounted to nothing but pandering, as such the only people who are really enjoying that are the people who don't care about the story as much as they care about internet fights.

But honestly, internet fights are the only important thing out there and I look forward to all of the ones that are unfolding in this comment chain. :)

[–]Heelincal 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

I meant Spiderman in the sense of the Peter Parker character, aka the talk that was whirling with TAS reboot and the Marvel one.

New Thor is the perfect example of diversity happening for diversity's sake and sucking, imo.

[–]Norn-Iron -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Apparently, if the stories are true, Thor was made female and Captain American was made black because the president of Marvel said some stupid things about women, and about black actors looking the same.

[–]SexSellsCoffee 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thor has been a fucking frog. Its a title

[–]2rio2 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I actually flipped through the new Ms. Marvel in the bookstore a few weeks ago and it was surprisingly good. I might have to pick up the trades.

[–]MrManicMarty 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've got the first one, it's pretty great.

[–]2rio2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it was the third trade I flipped through, but def made me want to pick up the rest.

[–]redpandaeater -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm still a fan of Carol.

[–]silverrabbit 12ポイント13ポイント  (10子コメント)

How come people throw a shit fit when they make white characters black, but no one cares when folks like Ra's Al Ghul, Bane, and or Talia Al Ghul become white? Bane has been established as a Latino who grew up in a prison in Latin America, but for some reason he speaks with an English accent in the Dark Knight Rises. Or I can add the ancient one is now played by a white woman instead of an Asian man. Or I can add that the main villain in Iron man 3 was turned from an Asian man to a white man.

[–]nightmare901 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

Ben Kingsley isn't white. He's half-Indian, half-English. His birth name is Krishna.

In addition, the Mandarin, as written in the comics, is the most obnoxious Asian stereotype imaginable.

[–]neoriply379 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Straight up, The Mandarin is the hardest major villain the Marvel Universe to write without being perceived as racist. I'd say the MCU did a great job with it for the first two thirds, but I'm willing to agree to disagree with that last bit.

[–]silverrabbit 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

The mandarin ended up not being Ben Kingsley though.

[–]nightmare901 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, but Aldrich Killian is a separate character in the comics, so I'm not willing to call him the Mandarin.

[–]Heelincal 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

People did for every example you just listed.

[–]silverrabbit 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've never seen anything brought up on Bane and Talia. For the other examples it was quickly brushed aside with the the excuse that the originals were racist so rather than retool those characters they made them white.

[–]the_code_always_wins 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Actually, there were a lot of complaints that Bane in the Dark Knight Rises has nothing in common with Bane from the comics.

Its not just the skin color, his entire story has nothing in common. Bane in the comics is a drug dealer who uses super steroids.

[–]silverrabbit 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I honestly didn't see a single thing posted about it, and I was definitely a /r/movies reader. Do you have any articles about it?

[–]Diablo689er 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

They do quite a bit.... When the white actors are shitty. Nobody seems to care when you're bringing in Liam Fucking Nesson or Tom Hardy. The majority of the world only really heard about the Airbender movie because of the bitchfit thrown over Asian actors.

The truth is there are not nearly as many high quality minority actors in Hollywood that can pass respectably in an English film. You couldn't cast Jackie Chan into a role without his accent influencing the portrayal. Those that are don't necessarily fall into the category of A) wanting the part, B) being able to play the part and C) being available for it outside of other commitments.

[–]rileyrulesu 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You must not go on many comic book forums.

Seriously though, how hard is it to find an old Arabic dude to play Ra's? Plus I don't care how iconic he accidentally became, that bane is stupid (Although I forgive this more, since it's obvious they were making a completely different character, but I'm still sad they had to use everyone's favorite roided out luchador's name, preventing him from ever being done right in the series.)

[–]ForToday 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree, how about a movie about Bishop or Storm?

[–]IdontSparkle 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why don't we use one of the awesome black superheroes?

Because they're lesser known, and producers prefere to put their money three times on sipderman and twice on fantastic four, no matter how much those movies end up sucking.

Why can't we have a black spider-man?"

Because he's a white character.

Miles Morales is black. Yet, we get the third reboot of the spiderman franchise with a white Peter Parker.

Forcing diversity for diversity's sake is more demeaning than it is honorable

Not is not.

Almost all the super-heroes we know were created 60 years ago, at a time when black & minorities were absent in the media. Comic Books were product of their time and therefore there wasn't that much diversity back then on their pages. We mostly have inherited white straight male superheroes. Sure, comic books have sometimes been pioneering with showing minorities and better roles for women... But the collective mind isn"t catching up. We still hang ourselves to the first version of the super-heroes.

If we are allow to take 60's superheroes and put them in 2015, then I think we can also leave the social context of the 60's behind and adapt the super-heroes to today's society.

We're drowning under super-hero movies, and none of them had black leads (Blade was a decade ago and not as big). I don't understand how people get so upset that a role went to young a black actor. It's already difficult as it is for a black actor to get roles in hollywood, and young super-hero-fan black kids can now have a role model to look for. What is so wrong with that?

[–]HeroOT -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

A lot of these of franchise super heroes were made during the height of the segregation era. No ethnic actor would stand a chance at playing a bankable character if content creators weren't allowed/discouraged from deviating. Changing the race of a character who is not primarily defined by their race is really not a big deal. At all. Especially if the actor can play it well. Hell, the difference can be explained in a line or two and the story can just progress from there.

We'll see if his performance stands on its own or not but even if it doesn't I think we're past the era where "black human torch" is an acceptable annoyance.