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/r/MensRights users explode when one user challenges them to provide "corollary examples of events where a woman has killed many men out of pure misandry". (np.reddit.com)

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[–]confusedblues 166ポイント167ポイント  (24子コメント)

As for the Lane Bryant shootings, I've always had the feeling that he killed them partly because they were fat women, and therefore less valuable. You can negate this all you want, but we'll never really know because the guy wasn't caught.

But don't let that stop you from just making up your own conclusions.

[–]allamacalledcarlPass the popcorn 259ポイント260ポイント  (69子コメント)

They're still in denial about Elliot Rodgers' being a misogynist? Dude straight up wrote a fucking epic about all the different ways he hated women and yet these dudes claim it wasn't motivated by hatred against women? Do they literally have blinkers on or something?

[–]likewtvrman 140ポイント141ポイント  (8子コメント)

This shit drives me crazy, as if misogyny doesn't hurt men. He made it explicitly clear in his manifesto that any hatred he had towards other men was a direct result of his hatred towards women. He hated other men specifically because he felt the women who rejected him chose them.

[–]monstersof-men 77ポイント78ポイント  (1子コメント)

Right? If he didn't feel so entitled to women he wouldn't have shot the men. That's misogyny.

[–]waveswan 20ポイント21ポイント  (5子コメント)

A great deal of prejudice results from people feeling afraid of the consequences of admitting nuance. The reasoning is essentially a slippery slope argument, akin to "If we let them have a finger, they will take the whole hand." Interestingly, this type of reasoning tend to exist for activists as well as their opponents. There is no shortage of feminists who have opposed recognition of transsexuals, because to them simply admitting the existence of biological factors determining gender is seen as a dangerous threat to the ideology ( i.e, that only misogynist sexists believe psychological gender differences to have anything to do with biology).

This is also the type of reasoning which drives otherwise reasonable people to jump to defence of individuals who are undeniably misogynist. They fear that their own counterparts within the feminist movement will gain influence, and with that mindset "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is a tempting way to reason.

It works the same with things like racism and xenophobia.

[–]ostrich_semenyour memes end where my dankings begin [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Honestly, I think it's even simpler than that. Their core beliefs are male supremacism, and like most reactionary movements, they can't lead with their core beliefs so they ground it in ~ethics in video games journalism~ inequality in family court, and extrapolate that to opposition to "feminism". I used to be on /r/masculism when it was essentially the "white panther party" for sex relations and examined the ways the patriarchy affected men. At some point it got taken over by MRAs.

At that point, it doesn't matter what "feminists" actually say, just that they oppose it so "feminists" don't "win" anything. It's the "demoralizing" part of the distract, discredit, and demoralize framework of propaganda engineering.

[–]DylanStormHoof 49ポイント50ポイント  (2子コメント)

He equally hated females and males so obviously he was an egalitarian

[–]Funk-O-MancerI WANT ELLEN BACK! 28ポイント29ポイント  (0子コメント)

Eliot Rodgers; a true goal for all egalitarians!

[–]delta_baryonAccidentally creates drama [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Damn, I mistook you for someone else for a second there.

[–]WE_ID 19ポイント20ポイント  (6子コメント)

literally have blinkers on or something?

Do you mean blinders?

[–]japeso 26ポイント27ポイント  (1子コメント)

Blinkers (maybe a AM/BR English difference or something like that?)

[–]WE_ID 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oooh. Language sure is interesting.

[–]vasco_rodriguesPh'nglui mglw'nafh Unidan R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn 32ポイント33ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, he left his blinkers on. The clicking drove him MAD

[–]allamacalledcarlPass the popcorn 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

Apparently they're used interchangeably.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinkers_(horse_tack)

[–]WE_ID 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Huh. I guess I should've paid attention to all my horse-racing friends. Jk they don't race horses. Also they don't exist.

Thanks for quelling a bit of ignorance.

[–]JitGoinHam [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

TIL

[–]DeepStuffRickyIlsaSheWolfoftheGrammarSS [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's because they're too stupid to realize that misogyny can also include hating/harming men.

[–]BrowsOfSteelliterally Emmanuel Goldstein [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Do they literally have blinkers on or something?

Something like that.

コメントをもっと表示する (48 返事)

    [–]salliek76caballer, shot-caller 607ポイント608ポイント  (208子コメント)

    Ugh, this one hits close to home for me as the guy's family is connected to mine socially and professionally. Rusty Houser was well known, for YEARS, as a right-wing crank who was constantly disrupting city council meetings, calling in to local talk radio shows, and writing deranged letters to the editor in the newspaper. He was 100% a scary, dangerous misogynist.

    I'll give the OP there the benefit of the doubt and acknowledge that he wouldn't have the perspective on this that I do, but that headline is really fucking dishonest. It didn't only become known when he decided to kill two women, and it CERTAINLY isn't because "he once said he was against abortion." To say that is to deliver a slap in the face to his wife, adult daughter, former landlady, and all the other people in his life who knew what a threat he was and how his mental health was spiraling dangerously out of control.

    This is (yet another) crystal clear example of a mentally ill man with a history of sexist ranting and domestic violence who--SURPRISE!--went on to murder women. If the activists at /r/MensRights are uncomfortable with that pattern, then perhaps they should question why they take it so personally when the pattern is pointed out.

    [–]outerspacepotatoman9 277ポイント278ポイント  (132子コメント)

    It's always crazy to me when the MRAs get super defensive over the idea that some individual person might be a misogynist - especially when that person is a mass murderer. I mean, how does that affect their narrative in any way? Is it now part of men's rights that there are no misogynists in existence whatsoever?

    [–]salliek76caballer, shot-caller 211ポイント212ポイント  (30子コメント)

    I've never heard an MRA come out and say that misogyny doesn't exist in the abstract, but I have noticed a pattern that X particular event doesn't qualify as misogyny, where X = literally any situation ever.

    You can see it when people talk about things like sexism in media ("How is it sexist to show a hot woman's figure in a movie poster? That's just marketing!"), sexism in the workplace ("You don't know that the guy only talked down to you because you're a woman; he's just a jerk!"), sexism in education ("How does it show sexism when women choose to get liberal arts degrees? Nobody's stopping them from hanging out with all the guys who want to learn how to code!"), etc.

    This is a close cousin to the idea that racism may exist on a theoretical level, but no particular example ever shows a legitimate act of racism because there's always a Perfectly Good ReasonTM that the police/employer/stranger on the street did what they did.

    [–]Delores_Herbig 132ポイント133ポイント  (9子コメント)

    They generally don't deny that misogyny exists...

    They just claim that it mostly exists in third world countries, that western women don't face it, and that misandry is the real problem.

    [–]mittim80 64ポイント65ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Typical mra:

    "As a [insert demonym for third world country here] immigrant, I witnessed some horrible stuff back home. I never understand when people complain when women literally get paid 1 cent less than men. People here are so lucky. I wish fucking feminists would get stoned to death in Saudi Arabia."

    You see, unless you're literally being stoned to death it isn't misogyny.

    [–]onlyonebread 54ポイント55ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The ol "I'm not racist because I've never literally lynched a black person!"

    コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

      [–]HenryPouet [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      Ah, yes. The 226 years-old verse of "Stop it now, stop freedoming all over the place! There's no need for social progress, it's all good for Christ's Sake, stop making a scene!" Or my favourite centruy-old "You're just a bunch of lunatics with crazy ideas, you've gone too far, it's stupid and/or useless now, it's enough, stop!". While western feminism is done and over (I should know, as an asian-american woman leading a Sillicon Valley start-up) and minorities should shut up and take care of stuff I don't care about, this other bitch criticizing video games is a FRAUD, a DANGER for our CHILDREN and should be STOPPED immediately! What is doing the government!? They don't realize that - if God forbids - they get balls and becomes real militants (in opposition to today slacktivism, no matter the topic: feminism and anti-feminism alike, Bernie Sanders, the capacity to have particulary shit subs stay on a website where any normal and sane person would look at you and say "What the fuck is this shit man? And you're spending several hours a day of your life for that?") they'll be seen as plainely as anti-suffragettes are today. Anders Breijvik, Elliot Rodgers, Dylan Roof, Seung-hui Cho - just the top of my head. Deeply unstable and sad individuals who couldn't bear the movement of the system. The rest - the sanest and most conformist parts - will just get old and complain and scream at their TV/internet about cultural marxism or some shit and continue live a perfectely normal life.

      コメントをもっと表示する (20 返事)

        [–]thebigbadwuffVigilo Popcorno 366ポイント367ポイント  (77子コメント)

        It absolutely affects them. See, it's similar to racism. We all know racism is bad, right? Right. But if you admit that individual events are racist, then those become data points. Data points can be confirmed and correlated. Correlations can be analyzed and collated into causation. Before you know it, racial patterns are facts. Facts are bad because they become theories. Theories are bad because they become accepted. And before you know it, no one buys your Race RealistTM slogans any more.

        MRA's premise is that they are rational. They are realists. They live in a world driven to madness by alarmists and SJW's and while Bad PeopleTM exist (well, mostly in a magical abstract realm called "Somebody Else's Problem"), for the most part all these problems people are yammering about would evaporate if people just stopped being- well, something. Lazy, maybe. Or slutty. Careless. Maybe if they had a gun. Or kept their hands up. Or got a job. It's something, though, and that's the important part.

        You can't admit women are raped frequently, because that means your inability to get laid and your frustration with your inability to connect with the objects- and I mean objects- of your desire is not the calamity that demands real attention. It means by inaction or (god forbid) action you might be the bad guy in your own alpha sex fantasy.

        You can't admit black people are shot by the police unjustly because that means that all your bitching and sublimated fears about black people might not just be unfounded, might not just be harmful, but might make you the bad guy in the civil rights movie your kids will see in thirty years.

        You can't admit gaming culture is full of asshats who are legitimately dangerous, because it means all these edgy kids might have taken part in something that makes you and your peers the bad guys.

        Admitting fact leaves the possibility that not everything can be twisted into a victory. So you can't admit anything. The second you give an inch, you're a mile closer to being one of the Bad PeopleTM. It takes years of work to cobble together a careful worldview that protects you from responsibility, from culpability, from even facts themselves. The threads holding the tent up are slender and fragile.

        And then it collapses.

        And in almost no time at all, the cognitive dissonance unravels, and you're left with nothing but the same hollowed out, defeated rage you thought was relegated to beaten nazis in a Tarantino movie, or the overruled segregationists in historical videos. You'll never admit you were wrong. But you know. And that's enough to simmer and burn.

        TLDR: You can't admit anything. Or you'll realize the pill you swallowed was blue all along.

        edit: I accidentally a word. Several. Some sentences were removed because fuck that's too long for government work.

        [–]mittim80 47ポイント48ポイント  (20子コメント)

        copies comment

        pastes into notes app

        I will save this comment for all posterity.

        [–]rocktheprovince 26ポイント27ポイント  (0子コメント)

        So do you have a blog or something?

        [–]observer_december 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

        1) Did you write this yourself? 2) And do you write for a writing website? Because if the answer to 1 is yes, then the answer to 2 should someday be yes.

        [–]NorthernSkeptic 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

        superb comment

        [–]deviantmoomba [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        They've noticed! (the salt gets saltier...)

        [–]DougDante 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

        You can't admit women are raped frequently

        People of all types, including women, are raped far too frequently.

        You can join me to seek justice for some of them:

        Action Opportunity: Investigate Human Rights Violations: State Sanctioned Prison Rape As Punishment for Boys and Men in South Africa

        Action Opportunity: Call for an Investigation into the Appearance of Discrimination Against Michigan Boys Raped in Prison

        You can't admit black people are shot by the police unjustly

        All types of people, but mostly boys and men, and disproportionately African Americans, are harmed and shot by police, often unjustly.

        You can join me to help some of them:

        Action Opportunity: Please join me to protect the rights of impoverished African American boys and men in Ferguson, Missouri and elsewhere

        but might make you the bad guy in the civil rights movie your kids will see in thirty years.

        Segregation continues, but has changed forms. You can join me to seek justice for victims of sex segregation in health care:

        Action Opportunity: Tell HHS: Reject separate and unequal: Do not devalue men's lives through statistical segregation

        You can't admit gaming culture is full of asshats who are legitimately dangerous

        I suppose not, but I can admit that Veterans Affairs may contain criminals who are legitimately dangerous, and whose actions have have cost the lives of many veterans. You can join me to seek justice for them if you like.

        Action Opportunity: End the Appearance of Criminal Corruption at the Veterans Administration

        Action Opportunity: Investigate Possible Gender or Gender Identity Motivated Hate Crimes at Veterans Affairs

        It takes years of work to cobble together a careful worldview that protects you from responsibility, from culpability, from even facts themselves. The threads holding the tent up are slender and fragile.

        I've seen the appearance of this sort of rationalization from corrupt individuals, including people who are supposed to protect children. You can join me to seek justice for foster kids:

        Action Opportunity: Call for an investigation: Fraud, waste, and abuse in child protective services are endangering foster child victims

        So you can't admit anything. The second you give an inch, you're a mile closer to being one of the Bad People

        You know bad people by the results of their actions. They do terrible things like hurting vulnerable people, including women and girls. You can join me to seek justice for some of them.

        Action Opportunity: Reform US Funding of Human Rights Abuses Against Prostitutes and Trafficking Victims

        And in almost no time at all, the cognitive dissonance unravels, and you're left with nothing but the same hollowed out, defeated rage

        I've seen this sort of rage from people who appear committed to acting with injustice. The kind that will illegally turn away domestic violence victims they are paid to help. You can join me to seek justice for them.

        Action Opportunity: Investigate the Appearance of Discrimination Against Boy and Man Domestic Violence Victims

        [–]Dewey_Darl [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        The leaps in logic you use to make the action opportunities seem like logical responses to the phrases you quote is just bizarre, but I do appreciate your focus on activism. It's refreshing.

        Edit: those posts are really sad actually. One of them has over a hundred upvotes, but most of them have less than 30. There are very few comments, and half of them are people complaining about feminism. The post about impoverished children in Furgeson only has one comment, and it compares feminism to the KKK. I can only imagine how frustrating this must be for you, and I genuinely think it's awesome that you're trying to direct the energy of that sub towards something positive.

        [–]78456753456246Banned 78456753456245 times 25ポイント26ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Hey, I'd just like to take a moment to thank you for trying to help address some of the real problems identified by the Men's Rights Movement. I usually give the MRM a hard time, but I do genuinely appreciate it when I see some of you trying to legitimately make the world a better place, and I wish more people would follow your example.

        [–]Non_Social 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I like you. You're not here to shit all over a movement and instead are offering up ways to actually help out. It's a pleasant change to see in a thread filled with negative MRA sentiments.

        Edit: No really, I'm not being sarcastic. It really is nice to see that some here are actually helpful individuals who aren't so quick to slather an entire group or effort in the fuck-you-beque sauce.

        [–]Dusty_Machine [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        You know feminism is also about all this, dont you?

        コメントをもっと表示する (47 返事)

          [–]Shuwin 75ポイント76ポイント  (9子コメント)

          They've got this weird idea that if you concede an inch of ground by admitting that Rodgers was a misogynist, feminists will take it and run a mile with it. The fear that murderers will be painted as representative of MRAs outweighs any desire for intellectual honesty.

          [–]MaxNanasy 50ポイント51ポイント  (4子コメント)

          MR was so comically avoiding this issue. In Rogers' manifesto, he sincerely wants to enslave women, but MRAs were saying that because he killed only men, he can't be misogynist. So much cherry-picking of which aspects of each situation are considered relevant to determining misogyny and murder motivations.

          OTOH, GreenMansions did the same thing when discussing the Lane Bryant shootings (at least from the evidence I saw in that thread; IDK anything about this case). She tried to link a robbery gone wrong to misogyny just because women were killed.

          [–]dontmovetoportland 37ポイント38ポイント  (2子コメント)

          MRAs were saying that because he killed only men, he can't be misogynist

          I loved that so much. "Well sure he had a whole manifesto about being angry at women and was on his way to shoot up a sorority house and only by grace of his incredible ineptitude did that not happen, but he killed men so it's insane to call him a misogynist."

          [–]DoshmanV2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          Right? Like, I get actions meaning more than words, but the words pretty clearly explain that his actions were ultimately because of his hatred for women

          [–]theaxolotlgod [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          I like this guy from the linked thread:

          Sure, as long as you ignore more men were harmed than women, and after he fled he pointed his gun at a woman from his car at a stop, then continued on.

          He didn't kill one single woman in this minor part of the situation, he couldn't possibly have been a misogynist!

          [–]enigma5908 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          also, rodgers killed women and men, just more men. IIRC part of the reason for more men being killed was that his roommates were men and he killed them.

          [–]DoshmanV2 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

          Well, they often use Valerie Solanas (Severe paranoid schizophrenic, attempted murderer of Andy Warhol, writer of the SCUM Manifesto) as an example of a mainstream feminist that everybody loves despite being a horrible person (despite the fact that nobody really regards the SCUM Manifesto as a work worth following).

          Maybe they're scared that Rogers will turn out the same way

          [–]Sugarbombs 36ポイント37ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Because it's all about internet argument points. They never succeed a single point because then the feminists get to add a +1 to the score board. That sub is not about men's rights.

          [–]Dewey_Darl 42ポイント43ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Exactly! It's one of the things that makes it obvious that they're not coming at this from a place of genuine honesty and empathy.

          [–]petercoffinThere's *Actually* a Gawker Hitpiece On Me 48ポイント49ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Another fun thing that makes it obvious they're not coming at it from a place of genuine honesty and empathy:

          How many young black men have been executed by police does any MRM outlet mention, let alone advocate for?

          [–]dontmovetoportland 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

          It was zero for a long time. As far as I know it still is, but who knows that could change any day. They're always finding new ways to help dudes over there!

          [–]canti28 32ポイント33ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Is it now part of men's rights that there are no misogynists in existence whatsoever?

          Pretty much yeah. They've always been super resistant to anything being labeled misogyny, to the point where calling TRP misogynist is at least, very controversial.

          [–]khantron 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Kind of. The dominant narrative is that feminism is completely unneeded in the western world, and that feminism is just around for female supremacy.

          [–]Anaseb [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          It's always crazy to me when the MRAs get super defensive over the idea that some individual person might be a misogynist - especially when that person is a mass murderer. I mean, how does that affect their narrative in any way? Is it now part of men's rights that there are no misogynists in existence whatsoever?

          And this is why your average MRA's are worse than your average feminist. Your average feminist is not in denial of the fact that women can rape, murder or do other horrid shit against men out of sexist reasoning; but oh god you turn the tables and try to make an MRA acknowledge that men can do horrid shit out of sexism and you might as well be debating a femnazi over male rape.

          コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

            [–]textrovert 94ポイント95ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Just want to highlight one of his victims, Jillian Johnson, who was just as well-known in her community in the opposite way. She was a central part of Acadiana's small but fantastic progressive community, and one of the founding members of the all-women band the Figs, I'd say Lafayette's best-known local band. She was an artist, an owner of a shop with her husband, and a founder of several non-profits as well.

            I lived in Lafayette for a few years and it's a wonderful community. I saw the Figs play many times, partly because I know one of the other members. Jillian was close to a lot of people I love, and many of them have been posting on Facebook that this was not a "senseless" murder but a hate crime or misogynistic terrorism. I really hate when people silence talk about the reason people were killed because it is inconvenient for them, especially under the guise that it "politicizes" the deaths. Silencing talk of the reasons for a shooting with political causes and implications is political. There is little doubt that Houser went into the screening of Amy Schumer's movie in hopes of targeting people like Jillian. Ironically, the other victim, who also seems like she was a lovely young woman, was an anti-abortion activist herself. But it's so clear that Houser's opposition to abortion was purely based in misogyny, and that was not the only women's right he advocated against. The only way you could not see that is if you don't want to.

            [–]thebigbadwuffVigilo Popcorno 27ポイント28ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I'm sorry for your loss. I lived in Isla Vista when the shootings happened. It sucks seeing the cycle repeat, and repeat, and repeat....I just can't get away from it.

            [–]Level100ProtWarrior 208ポイント209ポイント  (72子コメント)

            I love when people from hatesubs criticize SJWs... It's like, when was the last time a Tumblrina went on a homicidal rampage? That's right, never. So, we have a group of people being really aggressive about "Be nice to people, you shits", and the other group is running around like their mentality isn't heavily associated with people getting murdered.

            [–]Sojourner_Truth 129ポイント130ポイント  (9子コメント)

            It's like, when was the last time a Tumblrina went on a homicidal rampage? That's right, never.

            Meanwhile I believe there are at least 2 (male) murderers who posted about their crimes on 4chan, and one murderer who posted frequently on SomethingAwful (the pumpkin defending kid, for those who were around then).

            [–]GGglassEveryone else took my 'walking the mods' flair 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

            There was also that nazi kid from Newgrounds too. I remember the last 4chan one happening and the manhunt afterwards, felt weird seeing 4chan's name on news sites again.

            [–]Saganomicsno ebolabobophiles 19ポイント20ポイント  (7子コメント)

            I believe you mean puckin defending!

            [–]Sojourner_Truth 15ポイント16ポイント  (6子コメント)

            hahah, you got it. and he was a TFR poster, to boot!

            [–]1stonepwn 33ポイント34ポイント  (5子コメント)

            Tales from retail? I guess I can see how retail could make one a killer

            [–]Ashelantean 31ポイント32ポイント  (3子コメント)

            The Firing Range, their gun forum. He was asking for advice on what sort of bullets to use to fend off neighborhood kids and, for what it's worth, was roundly mocked and discouraged. I believe it also turned out he was developmentally delayed, but I might be confusing him with another goon murderer (there's been 3-4).

            [–]Play_GG-XRD 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

            There's been a few murderers I think, but as far as I'm aware he was the only one to really plot it and had obvious warning signs.

            And yeah everyone assumed it was a joke and just mocked him into oblivion (what people would call trolling today).

            Pretend I said some shit about stairs and old worn-out joke shit here.

            [–]Sojourner_Truth 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

            That many? I only remember Mr. Puckin. And yeah, he was high-function autist or something of that nature, IIRC

            [–]Ashelantean 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Yeah, nothing nearly so drastic as Mr. Puckins, though. There's only one goon-on-goon incident I know of and I believe they were IRL friends. The SAclopedia used to have info on all this, but I have no idea if it's still up.

            コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

              [–]Defengar 23ポイント24ポイント  (11子コメント)

              when was the last time a Tumblrina went on a homicidal rampage?

              One thing that does come to mind is Valerie Solanas's infamous moment of batshitery where she nearly killed Andy Warhol and several of his colleagues. But that was over 40 years ago.

              [–]LontraFelina 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

              did they even have tumblr 40 years ago tho?

              [–]SDSSJ102915172927 32ポイント33ポイント  (2子コメント)

              That was like 1969 lmao Valeria was very mentally ill. I own a copy of the scum manifesto and I'm male, I own it because I find it fascinating but not threatening

              [–]Defengar 21ポイント22ポイント  (1子コメント)

              I would say most of the male killers who did what they did with misogyny as a motivator were mentally ill as well. Mental illness and hatred are a very dangerous combination. They can compound each other.

              [–]Has_No_Gimmick 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

              It's pretty obvious. I don't think there's such a thing as a sane spree killer.

              [–]Enleat 22ポイント23ポイント  (2子コメント)

              I think the reason she shot him was because Warhol was very uncaring towards one of her movie drafts or something, lost it, and then paid her $25 for a small role in an art movie.

              [–]Defengar 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

              She thought he had stolen her work (he hadn't). But that doesn't explain why she would try target other people on the premises like she did. I have little doubt her irrational dislike of men played a role in the whole thing.

              [–]Ciceros_Assassin- downvotes all posts tagged /s regardless of quality 35ポイント36ポイント  (1子コメント)

              that was over 40 years ago

              Which brings to mind the phrase "the exception that proves the rule."

              [–]FUCKBOY_JIHADcabal treasurer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              Doesn't stop her from being Feminist Strawman Public Enemy #1

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                [–]RedCanada 110ポイント111ポイント  (21子コメント)

                Elliott Rodgers

                Amish school girl massacre

                Chicago Lane Bryant murders

                George Sodini gym shooting

                These are just off the top of my head, and these are cases where the killer was explicit about his hatred of women. Can you give me corollary examples of events where a woman has killed many men out of pure misandry?

                I'd like to add:

                Robert Pickton, preyed exclusively on women sex workers, often aboriginal women.

                École Polytechnique massacre.

                [–]ashmeister2000 53ポイント54ポイント  (10子コメント)

                Polytechnique seems to be overlooked a lot. I watched a documentary on it and it was downright horrific. Even a bunch of the men involved killed themselves afterwards because they couldn't handle the guilt of not having done anything to stop it.

                [–]Georgia-OQueefe 34ポイント35ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I hadn't heard of the documentary and looked it up just now and in the search results some lovely person did a youtube cut of all the shooting recreation scenes and the comments are a bunch of men saying stuff like "You'll be missed Marc" and talking about how feminists are evil and deserved it.

                [–]butyourenice [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                That last fact - the tragic extended death toll caused by survivor's guilt - will be taken as proof to the MRM that actually, Polytechnique was a massacre of men.

                [–]EcoleBuissonniereFreeze peach > all [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                There was also a pretty great film based on it by Denis Villeneuve, called Polytechnique. Seriously gut-wrenching stuff.

                [–]RedCanada [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                I'm going to have to rent that one from Blockbuster.

                [–]EcoleBuissonniereFreeze peach > all [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                ...Blockbuster still exists?

                [–]RedCanada [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                It was a joke, I found it on The Pirate Bay and now I'm going to illegally download it and watch it.

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                  [–]Nerdquisitor 89ポイント90ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  I once had the most irritating argument with one of these guys about the ecole polytechnique massacre. Somehow he was trying to argue simultaneously that it wasn't anti-feminist because the women killed weren't all feminist and that it wasn't misogynistic because he was trying to kill feminists, not women.

                  [–]RedCanada 44ポイント45ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Somehow he was trying to argue simultaneously that it wasn't anti-feminist because the women killed weren't all feminist and that it wasn't misogynistic because he was trying to kill feminists, not women.

                  That's quite the circle he was arguing in, Lou.

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                    [–]Georgia-OQueefe 31ポイント32ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    There's also Gary Ridgway. He started killing women in the fucking 1980s and wasn't arrested until 2001. Most of his victims were sex workers which is probably why he wasn't caught sooner.

                    [–]dramamoose 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    See also: a whole lot of serial killers. Sure, some of them picked exclusively sex workers and women who were alone because they were easier targets, but a whole lot of them had issues with gender too.

                    [–]butyourenice [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                    How could he forget Polytechnique, that's probably the most significant single slaughter by a misogynist, for the explicit, stayed purpose of misogyny, since... Well, since people started recording these things in detail.

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                      [–]Dewey_Darl 267ポイント268ポイント  (123子コメント)

                      Does anyone else remember the MRAs coming into this sub after the Elliot Rodgers thing ferociously insisting that he was a misandrist because he killed more men than women, then whining about getting downvoted because they weren't used to arguing outside their echo chambers? It was good stuff, and it kind of solidified my opinion on the MRM. It's not like admitting Rodgers was motivated largely by a misogynistic sense of sexual entitlement somehow lessens the importance of men's issues. It's just one case. But they just couldn't accept that in this one instance, misogyny was an important factor. It made me appreciate the intellectual dishonesty in that sub.

                      [–]monstersof-men 184ポイント185ポイント  (98子コメント)

                      The MRM is also the exact opposite of intersectional. I'd be somewhat respectful if they fought for trans men, gay men, black men, disabled men, etc., but it seems to be what "Lena Dunham feminism" is to the feminism movement. Except it's the entire movement.

                      [–]Ciceros_Assassin- downvotes all posts tagged /s regardless of quality 37ポイント38ポイント  (41子コメント)

                      I can't even decide which fed-up-with-the-MRM comment to reply to here, so I'm just going to go with this one.

                      Anyone agreeing with this comment, please come join us at /r/MensLib. We're creating a space where we can talk about these issues free of the toxicity of the prevailing anti-feminist reddit narrative.

                      [–]monstersof-men 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      Oh, I think this is neat. I hope it doesn't get brigaded!

                      [–]Ciceros_Assassin- downvotes all posts tagged /s regardless of quality 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      We'd have to have some content first. :[ But we're young, yet! Subscribe now and I can almost assure you of brigades in the future. You're getting in on the ground floor!

                      [–]auandi 46ポイント47ポイント  (35子コメント)

                      My question is though, what problems face men that aren't for the most part addressed by feminism?

                      I don't mean to sound dismissive, but it seems like all the problems men face have to do with pre-assumed gender roles and pressures to conform to those roles. It's what creates the toxic definition of "masculinity" as hyper aggressive, it's what makes men the assumed provider and women the assumed caretaker that can make divorce and custody hearings seem unfair at times, it's what says only women can be raped or sexually assaulted not men. It seems like every men's issue I've ever heard of comes back to assumed gender roles and that's kind of what 95% of feminism is about ending.

                      If I'm missing something let me know, I'm just curious.

                      [–]Ciceros_Assassin- downvotes all posts tagged /s regardless of quality 38ポイント39ポイント  (6子コメント)

                      I think you're 100% correct, and it's an important thing to talk about.

                      Here's the need: the feminist movement (as differentiated from feminist theory) is generally, necessarily going to focus on problems experienced by women. There's no problem with that! At the same time, there's room, and need, for a space for men to discuss issues mainly related to men through that lens. It helps not to derail conversations in places where women are mainly talking about women, it provides a (needed, obviously) counter to the other, largely toxic men's spaces on reddit, and it (hopefully) can positively influence some impressionable men who might otherwise go the other way.

                      And women and feminists are absolutely welcome to participate. We're just going to be focusing mostly on how (as feminist theory would rightly point out) toxic masculinity effects problems for men.

                      [–]auandi 17ポイント18ポイント  (4子コメント)

                      That's fair, I guess I'm conflating feminist theory and movement. I was just interested in hearing from a non-toxic men's rights kind of person if I was missing anything. Because to me, it seems like opposing feminism is the worst possible thing for men for the issues I hear the MRM talk about.

                      Unfair devorese settlments? Unfair custody battles? It's because men are assumed providers and women caretakes so our laws reflect that.

                      Male rape not taken seriously? Women should stop being cast only as victims and men always as in control and laws should be updated to reflect that anyone can be a victim and anyone can be a predator.

                      Boys taught as children that feelings are "girly" and "being a man" means being aggressive? Yeah, get rid of that gender based assumption and things should get better.

                      Paternity and maternity leave not treated equal? It should be (mostly) since we shouldn't assume which gender should be the stay at home parent.

                      It just seems like every single bullet point MRM people have ever said involves smashing gender roles which is the same thing feminism is trying to smash. So I've always found MRM people very transparent but was wondering if there was something I was overlooking that isn't really addressed by smashing gender roles. I totally get that approaching it from the male perspective is slightly different than most feminism, but I see it as two flanks fighting against a common enemy rather than either opposing or at best unrelated groups.

                      [–]Ciceros_Assassin- downvotes all posts tagged /s regardless of quality 19ポイント20ポイント  (3子コメント)

                      You've pretty much got it. Opposing feminism is about the worst possible thing for men interested in fixing men's issues. Unfortunately, many of the other men's spaces don't see it that way. /r/MensLib is aiming to correct that.

                      [–]MeAndMyKumquat 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Like with other avenues of social justice, our liberation remains intertwined.

                      [–]Magoonie 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      This looks pretty cool, I subscribed. I've been wanting to see something like this for a while now. Thanks!

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                        [–]terminator3456 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        You are so right.

                        Men like myself don't really have a place to discuss these things - the manosphere is full of reactionaries who have no interest in the plight of poor or minority men yet feminist- oriented forums may accuse you of derailing & mansplaining.

                        [–]ayedfyRIP FPH 2010-TOO SOON 40ポイント41ポイント  (7子コメント)

                        You're not wrong. A majority of the problems men face are deeply rooted in the gender roles that also harm women, and feminist theory has been critical in identifying a lot of these.

                        However, feminism puts women at the centre of the issue. This is not a bad thing in itself, as it's definitely important for men to be involved in feminism in order to empathise with the struggles faced by women. But there also needs to be a space for men to discuss the issues that affect them. It would be a complementary movement, applying similar ideas and concepts to a different area of focus, rather than a separate or antagonistic movement.

                        [–]PixyFreakingStixi am become drama, destroyer of kernels 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

                        However, feminism puts women at the centre of the issue

                        This is pretty over simplified, I think. It's not that feminism intrinsically puts women at the center (despite its name). Women tend to be at the center of many issues because they're generally at a disadvantage relative to men.

                        Feminism isn't inherently female-centric, and part of the reason that it tends to be female-centric is because so few men identify as feminists. That's not a problem of feminism, though.

                        [–]ayedfyRIP FPH 2010-TOO SOON [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        I agree. I don't believe feminism is inherently female-centric, just that it regularly manifests that way in the majority of feminist discourse.

                        [–]subheight640 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                        I'd disagree,.especially depending on the activist. Feminism has been historically focused on women's issues: lesbian rights, voting rights, abortion rights, domestic abuse, contraceptive rights.

                        It's not a bad thing to have an interest group promote your interests. But these interests don't particularly cater much to men at all.

                        Source: I watched this movie about the history of feminism and the leaders during the 70s and 80s, and the movement developed because other leftist groups were putting women's issues on the back burner.

                        Even if groups can manage to agree on the issues, they'll still have different thoughts in what should be prioritized first.

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                            [–]zxcv1992 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

                            My question is though, what problems face men that aren't for the most part addressed by feminism?

                            A good example is the recent change to the FBI rape definition, there was a feminist motivated change to update it as there should of been. But even with the update it doesn't count female on male rape as rape, so while feminism may be good for fighting societal pressure about gender roles it will still misses mens issues because it is a movement for focusing on women, not that there is anything wrong with that but it shows that it would be good for a movement to purely focus on men also, so their issues won't get missed.

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                              [–]Showmeyourcupcakes 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              Wow! It's so refreshing to see something like this that isn't bashing feminism. Like, seriously. This is nice. Thank you for being respectful and kind.

                              [–]Ciceros_Assassin- downvotes all posts tagged /s regardless of quality 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Thank you. That's the kind of thing we're explicitly pushing back against, and we're looking forward to being a space for the silent majority of men who want to discuss men's issues and don't think feminists are coming for us in the night.

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                                [–]Dewey_Darl 82ポイント83ポイント  (55子コメント)

                                I'd be somewhat respectful if they fought for any men at all.

                                /r/MensRights has 116,000 subscribers. /r/MRActivism has 620.

                                Personally I think they end up hurting men, because they act so batshit that people throw out the baby of men's issues with the bathwater.

                                [–]JedibradStyleless White Dad Nerd 59ポイント60ポイント  (50子コメント)

                                Oh, come on. I'm a feminist myself, but that's just intellectually dishonest. Subscriber count is a useless metric for situations like this. /r/feminism has about 51,500 subscribers -- does that make their movement less popular than the MRM? /r/MRActivism is also four years younger than /r/MensRights, so it makes sense that it's significantly less popular.

                                I think the main purpose of the MRM is visibility, not activism. Online communities are primarily structured around discussion and awareness, and that's what both sides are doing. /r/feminism mostly consists of news articles and academic discourse, so they aren't technically 'fighting for women', either. That's not a bad thing; it's just not the purpose of that community.

                                /r/MensRights has a lot of problems, and I disagree with them on a host of issues, but their community is oriented towards increasing awareness, and that's the first step to organizing activism. If they just started marching the streets and holding conferences, no one would even know who they are. Once their concerns start leaking into popular culture, activism will spike, and the MRM will most likely merge with feminism (given the similarities in their overarching goals).

                                [–]DramaticFinger 78ポイント79ポイント  (30子コメント)

                                The difference is that there really isn't a men's rights movement presence offline. The men's rights sub is actually the largest and most prominent location of mra activity

                                [–]RedCanada 25ポイント26ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                /r/feminism has about 51,500 subscribers -- does that make their movement less popular than the MRM?

                                On Reddit, yes.

                                [–]outerspacepotatoman9 56ポイント57ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                I'm willing to bet that no serious activism will come out of the men's rights movement any time soon because I think at it's core it's really about complaining about feminism on the internet. That's not to say that there aren't real issues faced by men - there are - it's because the people participating in this movement don't really give a shit about fixing them.

                                [–]oaknutjohn 45ポイント46ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                Men's rights activism does already happen. It's just that it's done (rightfully, I think) by feminists and under the feminism umbrella.

                                [–]Dewey_Darl 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                That's fair, I should have prefaced that point with more subjective language. Subscriber count is pretty useless, but I think the relative count between two related subs says more than the relative count between two opposing communities.

                                I think the main purpose of the MRM is visibility, not activism. Online communities are primarily structured around discussion and awareness, and that's what both sides are doing. /r/feminism[4] mostly consists of news articles and academic discourse, so they aren't technically 'fighting for women', either.

                                This is an interesting point. Again, I'm not sure /r/feminism and /r/MensRights are really worth comparing. My understanding is that /r/MensRights is the primary mens rights community, and by far the biggest and most active. Feminists have a wide variety of organizations, and it seems like /r/feminism isn't nearly as accurate a measure of the respective movement as /r/mensrights is. Edit: I never go to /r/feminism, but if I did I would appreciate "action opportunities". Do you know if there is a sub for feminist action opportunities?

                                If /r/MensRights is just for discussion and awareness, I have no problem with that, but in that case their users shouldn't claim that they're directly helping men. I would take issue with the word 'activist'.

                                I've also heard from MRAs that part of their strategy is to support extreme leaders who say extreme things so they can get attention. Personally I think this is a horrible way to bring their movement into the mainstream. I think marching in the streets and holding conferences would be slower, but much more effective in the long term.

                                In general though, I agree with you. The size of two subreddit's doesn't, in and of itself, mean much. I do think it symbolizes many peoples issue with the movement though.

                                Edit: Changed some god awful, unclear phrasing.

                                [–]JedibradStyleless White Dad Nerd 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                My understanding is that /r/MensRights is the primary mens rights community, and by far the biggest and most active. Feminists have a wide variety of organizations, and it seems like /r/feminism isn't nearly as accurate a measure of the respective movement as /r/mensrights is.

                                Good point. I didn't mean to say that the two subreddits are equal, just that online communities in general are difficult to compare. They are exceedingly complex by their very nature, so flaws will be found in any analogy used. Feminism in particular is divided into so many subcategories that it can be difficult to calculate a specific trajectory. The MRM is still pretty new, so it hasn't yet splintered apart -- yet another reason the two movements are difficult to compare, I suppose!

                                Anyways, I agree with you. I think the use of the word 'activist' is definitely misplaced. I do think they are helping men in the sense that their problems are being voiced, but yeah, they certainly haven't done a whole lot to fix them. Maybe that will come with time.

                                I also agree that supporting extreme views to garner attention is a horrible idea. Associating with extremists will only get you regarded as one of them. Personally, even though I don't affiliate with their group, I would like to see the MRM push for a higher standing in academia. That would certainly help their reputation, if nothing else.

                                [–]dontmovetoportland 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Let's be honest here, feminism doesn't really get to be defined by reddit numbers because it exists in the real world. The mrm can be because it does not. This is as big as the mrm gets.

                                [–]blackfish_xx [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                I'm not an expert by any means on gender issues, but I'm not sure how a community that currently frames the deficits in men's rights as the product of feminism will eventually merge with feminism. especially given the way the majority of them react when you try to point out how their issues are ideologically consistent with the F-word.

                                [–]redwhiskeredbubul 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                I think the main purpose of the MRM is visibility, not activism. Online communities are primarily structured around discussion and awareness, and that's what both sides are doing.

                                The depressing thing is that there's a grain of truth to this. I'm tempted to say that being loud and unpleasant isn't the same thing as raising awareness, but the fact is that the issues that MRA's talk about that have a grain of truth to them or more--like male domestic violence victims--probably wouldn't receive much interest if the arguments were made in a calm, rational way without scapegoating feminists. They have to be stupid to be taken seriously. It's bizarre.

                                The thing is that the reverse argument is also true: for example, the positive possible effects of HAES probably wouldn't get any attention if there wasn't also a lot of misleading health claims and empty grandstanding. There's been a definite pattern over the last decade where people on the left have started learning from the AM radio right and packaging agendas as outrage bait, and the net effect has been to cheapen public discourse across the political spectrum. But because most people write with a view to defending their own position--and because they tend to see members of the other side as an existential threat--nobody can see how it's a non-partisan problem.

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                                    [–]Ciceros_Assassin- downvotes all posts tagged /s regardless of quality 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    Shit, people are making that very argument in the linked thread.

                                    [–]two_bagels_pleasethanks for the salami! 40ポイント41ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                    Just a reminder: the Southern Poverty Law Center classified /r/mensrights as an online hate group. As such, this sort of response is expected. The subreddit's mission is supposedly egalitarian, yet their users consistently refuse to listen to women's perspectives. This reaction is, unfortunately, unsurprising.

                                    EDIT: I am incorrect. The SPLC did not list the subreddit as a hate group. Rather, it's a hate website.

                                    [–]Dewey_Darl 51ポイント52ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                    To be fair, I think they clarified that they haven't classified /r/mensrights as a hategroup.

                                    In his interview with [SPLC activist] Pakman, posted below, Potok acknowledged once again that the SPLC had not named any Men’s Rights website a “hate group.” But he also made clear that the SPLC doesn’t list any website as a “hate group” — not even the viciously racist and anti-Semitic Stormfront — because to be a hate group you need to be, well, a group, and not a website.

                                    So there you go. I always thought that would be a great slogan for the MRM. "Technically not a hate group."

                                    [–]two_bagels_pleasethanks for the salami! 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    Ah, that's fair. I guess that demotes them to a "hate site."

                                    [–]that__one__guySHADOW CABAL![🍰] 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    "Hate loose conglomerate of like-minded individuals."

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                                      [–]TotesMessengerMessenger for Totes [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                      I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

                                      If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)

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                                        [–]Really_Quite_Nice 161ポイント162ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                        edit: men don't generally shoot people up too, it just gets reported much more often than say a singular woman fucking with a singular man for rejecting sex. its probably gonna hurt the guy less so its not as newsworthy.

                                        • Mass murder is apparently equivalent to "a singular woman fucking with a singular man".
                                        • What does "fucking with" even mean?
                                        • This also seems to imply that men never react poorly/horrifically to sexual rejection.
                                        • "its probably gonna hurt the guy less" - How? Why?

                                        [–]LollyMac 38ポイント39ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                        I followed the link you provided because I thought you were maybe paraphrasing. You weren't. He doesn't even capitalise his fucking sentences. As a woman who appreciates grammar (spelling can fuck off) I truly hope that guy take a very precise flying fuck to himself!

                                        [–]Dewey_Darl 20ポイント21ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                        Justice hath not the time for such petty constructs as grammar and cohesive thought organization.

                                        [–]LollyMac 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                        It's times like this that I wish I could read :(

                                        [–]lacheln 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                        Look up! Space is cool! :)

                                        [–]LollyMac 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                        Why haven't I heard of this space thing before???? That's totally fucking amazing! It's like someone found a way to make vodka the entire Universe. It's everything and everywhere. I'm going to study this very hard.

                                        [–]lacheln 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        I'm not fucking right now. I'm listening to Mozart.

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                                          [–]Greatest_Trochanter 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                          I don't typically capitalize my sentences on reddit and I have yet to exhibit dangerous misogyny, so I'm happy to report that he is not representative of us lazy dicks

                                          [–]LollyMac 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                          I hope you aren't reading too much into my comment. I'm not saying people who don't capitalise their sentences are all mentalists or what have you. I'm exceptionally lazy. I didn't mean my comment to be a judgement on you.

                                          [–]Greatest_Trochanter 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                          nah don't worry, I'm not offended, just offering kind of baseless hope

                                          [–]lifestyledles enfants beurre 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                          I see more and more potential dramas ending in mutual agreement or civil conversation on reddit lately.

                                          and it troubles me.

                                          [–]luker_man 23ポイント24ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                          Like in that school, movie theater or church?

                                          [–]_lol_reddit_Law & Order: Social Justice Unit 41ポイント42ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                          Right-wing extremists have killed more Americans domestically than Muslim extremists since 9/11. I don't see the US Army invading the South any time soon though.

                                          [–]thebigbadwuffVigilo Popcorno 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          To be fair, we did that already. It just took a a century for news to reach the backwoods.

                                          [–]Caesar321 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                          I'm not starting an argument or anything, but only like 1% of Americans are Muslim.

                                          [–]Dewey_Darl [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                          True, but I think the point is the disproportionate reaction by the government and levels of fear.

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                                            [–]MaxNanasy 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            What does "fucking with" even mean?

                                            I believe it's a reference to the tumblr link a few comments upthread, which contains a list of women who killed or injured men. Many of the women in the list apparently did so because the man refused sex or some other similar reason, although I also saw a few that didn't seem to fit that pattern (e.g. John Wayne Bobbit)

                                            This also seems to imply that men never react poorly/horrifically to sexual rejection.

                                            This comment chain was in reference to someone asking about whether there were any women who killed men out of "pure misandry", which is why the comment is focused on violent women rather than men.

                                            "its probably gonna hurt the guy less" - How? Why?

                                            Superior physical strength on average, maybe?

                                            [–]SkyLighter456 300ポイント301ポイント  (28子コメント)

                                            Coming into the r/mensrights subreddit and trying to blame half the population for the actions of a minority by using examples that contradict your own claims means you get called the sad, pathetic little feminist you are.

                                            He almost gained self-awareness there.

                                            [–]Dewey_Darl 180ポイント181ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                            I just love how feminist is like the end-all be-all of insults for them. It's like this weird reverse no-true-Scotsman thing where even if you don't openly identify as a feminist, they label you as one if you disagree with their views.

                                            Also, how do you know that poster is a he? Haven't you ever been to /r/ladyMRAs? There are dozens of them!

                                            [–]H37man 83ポイント84ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                            It is funny they believe it is an insult at all.

                                            [–]SkyLighter456 74ポイント75ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                            I think it's the new 'communist'. Like how in the mid-to-late 20th century anything critical of capitalism was just dismissed as 'those dam commies', now anything critical of society is dismissed as 'feminist'.

                                            [–]dudeniker 61ポイント62ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                            Or, an even more vague undefined term "SJW" which would also be a form of feminist.

                                            [–]DylanStormHoof 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            If you pretend like it's an insult maybe people will start to believe it is

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                                              [–]_lol_reddit_Law & Order: Social Justice Unit 32ポイント33ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                              Just had one tell me that SJWs are the most hateful people. They actually believe this stuff, which is probably why they can make comments like that and not even realize how absolutely hypocritical they are.

                                              [–]reagan92 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                              Of course, the irony is that, by definition, MRA's are fighting for men's rights.

                                              Which means they want a social group (men) to receive more justice (rights) in society.

                                              They are complaining on the internet, and some of them do nothing in their real life to advocate...which is the warrior part.

                                              They are literally social justice warriors, as well.

                                              [–]Dewey_Darl 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                              I mean, I'm not fan of the MRM, but I wouldn't try to insult someone by calling them a "pathetic, little MRA." That would just make me sound ridiculous.

                                              [–]youreallfuckingcunts 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              Fair enough. I wouldn't either, but I bet a lot of people on this sub would.

                                              [–]GGglassEveryone else took my 'walking the mods' flair 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                              One of them crawled out onto the big wide internet the other day and found an article I wrote and just commented 'I can tell this was written by a feminist' and I'm like 'no shit dude, it's a feminist critic of punk music, it says it right in the name'.

                                              [–]frigard 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              Sounds like an interesting article, could I get a link?

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                                                [–]raspberrykraken\[T]/ Doot Doot Praise it! \[T]/ 9ポイント10ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                That small glimmer of hope that gets crushed seconds later.

                                                [–]DrSoaryn 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                Looking at that list, 90/100 of them were women killing their boyfriend. Which is really just female on male murder of a single person and each one of them explained why the woman did it. Most of them were bullshit reasons of course, but none of them were misandry or "hatred of men". Only about ten of those could be clocked down as misandry. If that.

                                                [–]MaybeJoeBiden 68ポイント69ポイント  (24子コメント)

                                                First thing I said when I heard that it happened during Trainwreck was that it had to be a misogynist who wasn't happy about Amy Schumer's raunchy comedy. Everything I've heard since confirms that.

                                                [–]herovillainousAs a black gay homeless asian owl... 83ポイント84ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                                I very recently made a very visible comment about liking Inside Amy Schumer and I got soooo many messages about how she's an "unfunny fat bitch." It was pretty hilarious, and also highly predictable about reddit.

                                                [–]H37man 14ポイント15ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                Don't even try to compare workalics to broad city. I agree workalics is better but broad city is funny and gets so much hate.

                                                [–]TheCutestAboardI'm kind of a big deal. 33ポイント34ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                We're gonna have to fight now. Broad City is the funniest.

                                                [–]Spacegod87 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                I love Broad City. It's a shame that some men can't enjoy it simply because they have their "women are stoopid and unfunny" glasses on all the time.

                                                [–]vecnyj 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                Where does Broad City get hate? I've only seen people say it's a great new show

                                                [–]CGidari 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                Broad City gets hate? Everyone I know loves it.

                                                [–]MusaTheRedGuard 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                Uh reddit loves Broad city

                                                [–]dontmovetoportland 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                workalics is bette

                                                Whooooaaaahhh buddy let's not go crazy here

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                                                    [–]Dewey_Darl 5ポイント6ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                    Ive barely heard anything about this incident. Was this guy motivated by misogyny?

                                                    [–]78456753456246Banned 78456753456245 times 45ポイント46ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                    Here's a quick link on the topic - maybe not the best, but it's what I have handy:

                                                    http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2015/07/24/angry-misogynist-murders-women-at-showing-of-film-by-feminist-comedian-police-worry-we-may-not-find-a-motive/

                                                    He didn't leave a manifesto or anything behind, but... He does have a long history of being strongly opposed to women's rights, and obsessed with moral decay in America. And there's been a strong conservative backlash, specifically, to Trainwreck. Plus, everyone he killed was a woman.

                                                    Now, it could all come out tomorrow that this was all because he thought the jews were behind it all, and I wouldn't bat an eye, but... In the absence of any overt motive, I believe it's pretty reasonable to think, given his background, that he had an issue with women.

                                                    [–]Dewey_Darl 20ポイント21ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                    I'm a fan of We Hunted The Mammoth, but not really for straight news because they have a vested interest in portraying stuff like this in a certain way. I will say, however, that if MRAs are going to claim that Elliot Rodgers was a misandrist because he killed more men than women, then by their logic, this dude is misogynistic as fuck.

                                                    I appreciate the link though. I don't expect you guys to do my research for me, I'll look more into this later.

                                                    [–]78456753456246Banned 78456753456245 times 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                    Yeah, I agree that it's not the best source for this... Mostly, I just wanted to offer support that someone out there corroborates this interpretation, but most mainstream outlets seem to be downplaying his political history in favor of his mental health history. I know I've seen it elsewhere, but... Well, frankly, I'm trying to avoid hearing about this story as much as I can, and it was just plain easier to pull this link out of my browser history than remember which stories I've seen went into decent detail of his history.

                                                    [–]Dewey_Darl 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    I feel ya. I appreciate the link, it's interesting.

                                                    [–]oleub 28ポイント29ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                    he was pretty much straight up an internet nazi, with the gender and sex views that come with it

                                                    [–]Dewey_Darl 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                    Damn. I look forward to seeing how other internet nazis try to rationalize it.

                                                    [–]Wiseduck5 35ポイント36ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                    Easy.

                                                    He was crazy, therefore their toxic ideologies are completely blameless.

                                                    [–]Dewey_Darl 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    Exactly. And let's ignore any mitigating cultural factors that might have lead to his mental health disorder manifesting itself in this particular way.

                                                    Oh, and the woman who shot Andy Warhol? That was because of feminism.

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                                                      [–]whatim [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                      Well, he had a record for domestic violence and was regular caller/guest on a local right-wing radio show.

                                                      The host of the show said “He was anti-abortion. The best I can recall. Rusty had an issue with feminine rights. He was opposed to women having a say in anything.”

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                                                        [–]DeepStuffRickyIlsaSheWolfoftheGrammarSS [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                        Aw, no love in that thread for my boy Marc Lepine? He was the son of a bitch who really blazed that trail, right across the border in Montreal here. I was living there when that happened. More working-class Quebecois men, feeling the pinch as taxes were being raised and their unions were collapsing, sympathized with him than would make anybody here comfortable to hear about. Seriously, I heard more than one man up there shrug and say, "Well, what could they expect? They're supposed to be going to school to learn how to do their own jobs, not to steal jobs that should belong to men." Yeah, this was, if not a prevailing sentiment, popular enough to make me uncomfortable living there.

                                                        EDIT: In case it's not obvious enough, I don't really regard Marc Lepine as "my boy". I figured the /s wouldn't be needed.

                                                        [–]TorreyL 26ポイント27ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                        Really? They list all those one-offs like they're mass murderers and leave off the obvious example of Aileen Wuornos?

                                                        [–]RedCanada 22ポイント23ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                        Aileen Wuornos

                                                        They even made a Hollywoo movie about her.

                                                        The truth is that women mass murderers and serial killers are so rare that it really shouldn't be too hard to list them.

                                                        [–]TorreyL 27ポイント28ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                        Here's the Wikipedia list of American Female Serial Killers.

                                                        I don't have the interest to go through them and find motives, but I'm sure many of them are "angels of mercy," financially motivated, and/or killed women. I'm not a scholar of serial killers, but Aileen Wuornos is the only one I know off the top of my head whose motive was hate of men. To be fair, most male mass murders are not doing it out of hatred of women.

                                                        [–]NoDeadPugsI mean it. (❍ᴥ❍ʋ) 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Conversely, here's the Wikipedia list of American serial killers in general.

                                                        Not that I disagree with you, just that the ratio is so imbalanced, even after all things factored in, sooo it is weird how even MRA is acting about it.

                                                        Also, "angels of mercy" seems to, interestingly enough, be a very... er, "female-oriented" thing, sorry about the bad wording. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth to say it since for fuck's sake, it's serial killers we're talking about here, but -- in general, society often expect women to be caregivers, so... bizarrely, it ties in with feminist issues combatting said society expectations. Zilch to do with the MRM, I assume.

                                                        [–]dramamoose 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Yeah angels of mercy are definitely the majority in female serial killers. Which is really interesting, when you think about it, how gender roles (women are always sweet and caring) allow these women to get away with much more than a man might be able to in a similar position. (I'm not saying that a man WOULD be able to get away with less than those women were, but it'd be an interesting question to look into.)

                                                        [–]Bamres 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                        Is that a subtle Bojack horseman refrence or just a typo?

                                                        [–]RedCanada 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        What are you doing here?

                                                        [–]Spacegod87 29ポイント30ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                        It's funny how they go on and on about Tumblr feminists hating on men when they are doing the exact same thing to women, only with more subtlety and blatant denial. They're just as biased as any Tumblrina out there.

                                                        [–]byurksocial justice warmonger 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        It's not really subtle, it's literally a subreddit for being pissed off at women. MensRights could be a half-tolerable place if it actually had anything to do with discussing issues men face, rather than showing their true colors by bashing feminists every other sentence.

                                                        [–]Kittenclysm 30ポイント31ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                        I used to love /r/MensRights until I started using RES to tag /r/theredpill users.

                                                        [–]monstersof-men 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        If I did this I'd be swinging in every thread. You're far braver than I.

                                                        [–]GigglyHyena 47ポイント48ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                        Female serial killers generally kill for profit or munchausen's or by proxy. Most male serial killers do it for psycho-sexual reasons. Can we not say which one is better? Both are fucking despicable.

                                                        [–]Nerdquisitor 43ポイント44ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                        Aren't spree killers generally considered a separate category from serial killers? I mean you're right both are despicable, but I don't think those specific categories are what are being compared here.

                                                        [–]GigglyHyena 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        You're right, mea culpa.

                                                        [–]RedCanada 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                        I mean you're right both are despicable, but I don't think those specific categories are what are being compared here.

                                                        When I took criminology they were in the same category.

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                                                          [–]pushthebus_send me photos of your dog 19ポイント20ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                          Remind me of this in 15 minutes. I need to walk to the corner store and pick up some actual popcorn for this.

                                                          [–]McCaberHere's the thing... 12ポイント13ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                          Back yet?

                                                          [–]pushthebus_send me photos of your dog 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                          Shit yes.

                                                          I got triple butter microwave popcorn.

                                                          [–]Really_Quite_Nice 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          1x Butter for ideology determined by low self-esteem and sexual frustration.
                                                          1x Butter for the persecution complex.
                                                          1x Butter for the sweat and rage-tears of keyboard warriors.

                                                          Heat with a single dissenting opinion, wait for popcorn to cool, and consume.

                                                          [–]RedCanada 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          I've got Crunch 'n Munch!

                                                          [–]McCaberHere's the thing... 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          Awesome.

                                                          [–]filbatorIt's about cleansing ethnics in game journalism 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          Problem is that the only people blaming an entire sex or race for the actions of an extreme minority are you.

                                                          Lol, do they have any self-awareness at all? Or are they just complete and total morons?

                                                          [–]EggCouncilCreeper [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                                                          "Feminists do this quite often, for example insulting men for being a "neck beard loser who can't get laid.""

                                                          ...I don't think I have ever heard a woman use this as an insult. Ever. 0.o

                                                          [–]fathovercatskangaroo are birds k [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                          Aileen Wuornos.

                                                          There aren't many female serial killers, and she definitely killed because she hated men. But that's one compared to the literal hundreds of male serial killers that killed women because they hated them (and claim as much).

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