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All-New All-Different Marvel Will Feature All-Heterosexual Hercules (theouthousers.com)

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[–]SoloNexusOrIFeedArthur Curry's Fishsack 88ポイント89ポイント  (3子コメント)

So I guess changing a comic character's sexuality is something that...

Goes both ways.

[–]whojackie92 17ポイント18ポイント  (6子コメント)

Don't worry, Bobby Drake is still "full gay".

[–]ZerujinNightcrawler 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

I love and hate that we now have this running joke. Bendis can jump down a well.

[–]Jay_R_KayBatman 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I just 100% hate it. I hope to Grodd that Lemire and Hopeless can salvage something from the heaping pile of shit Bendis dropped there.

[–]dmull387My Name is Wally West and I'm the Fastest Man Alive 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd say the situation is pretty... Hopeless.

[–]smetschmo 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

when did that happen?

[–]rutterb0Wolverine (X-Force) 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

All-New X-Men #40

[–]smetschmo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

ah thx, so just recently. i'm not done yet with that black vortex stuff, so i'm not up to date.

[–]InkshooterMoon Knight 48ポイント49ポイント  (11子コメント)

Of course. Only women can be bisexual in comics.

[–]sgthombreAbe Sapien 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

Apparently only John Constantine can be, depending on the writer that day.

[–]MelloJello95 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel like his new series is the first time in ages that we've seen a bisexual Constantine.

[–]FaithhandlerKyle Rayner 12ポイント13ポイント  (6子コメント)

As a bisexual dude, this shit kinda annoys me. Whenever a character in any medium or celebrity is outed as bisexual, I always immediately think "So, which woman came out?" because it's never a dude.

It gets old.

But hey, at least we have Catman now. Nevermind that I can count the number of male superheroes who are bisexual in both the Marvel and DCU on one hand, and most of them are aliens who would of course be above such minor things like gender...

Annoying.

[–]ZerujinNightcrawler 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

Bisexuals are so rare we might as well be extinct if media is an indicator. Don't even get me started on the tropes and stereotypes.

[–]ArnoldoBassistiAtomic Robo 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

You know what pisses me off? We get fucked over even in queer media! Piper from OITNB? Never uses the word, is confused, cheats. The bi daughter from Transparent? Never uses the word, is confused, cheats! I mean, fuck, if we can't count on the rest of the LGBTQA community to get it right, who can we count on?

[–]ZerujinNightcrawler 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Officially only the L and G exist, don't you know?

One of the reasons I stopped watching OITNB, on top of Piper being the least interesting AND most annoying character. I don't know how they pulled that off. As Roxanne Gay put it, "A bunch of black planets orbiting a white sun." (paraphrasing) A shame, because the show had (and still has) so much potential but squanders most of it only revel in its own mediocrity. An important show in many ways, yes, but not the revolution a lot of people make it out to be. More please. Better next time, please.

It's really common that the b-word gets never uttered. I could have accepted this if Piper were in the process of figuring herself out amidst the completely alien and hostile world she's now forced to explore, which is, like, the perfect metaphor for what a lot of queer people go through, for crying out loud! You don't even have to change anything, it's right fucking there!

Even though I adore Strangers in Paradise, this is the one thing that pisses me off about it. Is it really too much to ask? Apparently the simplest things are too much these days.

[–]ArnoldoBassistiAtomic Robo 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, Piper is The Worst, and she has honestly only gotten worse over time. Plus this season lead to a bunch of straight girls saying "I'd go gay for Ruby Rose" which just...really does not help the show's problem with biphobia and bi representation. You aren't really missing anything.

[–]ZerujinNightcrawler 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Good thing I quit because my forehead can only take so much punishment.

It blows my mind that a so-called progressive show makes simple mistakes like these. People have been complaining about it since day one and you'd think the creators would at least pay a little attention to the feedback coming their way. It's on FAQ level sophistication, for fuck's sake! Sorry, I get worked up about it.

Don't any of them research?

[–]ArnoldoBassistiAtomic Robo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm so with you, if they'd just open their ears to people who share their main character's sexuality then maybe they'd fucking fix it! But I guess they get so much praise for representation in other areas (which they rightly deserve, but still) that we don't matter.

No need to apologize for getting worked up, I mean...have you seen how active the bi people in this thread are? This is kind of our issue to get worked up about. In fact, it's nice to see, makes me feel less like I'm some oversensitive crazy person. It's nice to be validated by other's anger.

[–]danielmilutin[S] 32ポイント33ポイント  (1子コメント)

Because a men being bisexual would be gross

[–]ZerujinNightcrawler 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can't jerk off to that because it makes the threesomes in my head extra gross! That's what they mean when male gaze gets thrown around.

[–]ELDRITCH_HORROR 42ポイント43ポイント  (11子コメント)

No Iceman. It doesn't matter how heterosexual you have been, you are gay now.

No, Ultimate Spider-Woman. It doesn't matter how heterosexual you have been, being attracted to men, and even making out with Johnny Storm, you are a lesbian now. You are only attracted to girls.

No Hercules, it doesn't matter how bi-sexual you were in both mythology and how you've been in our comics, you are heterosexual now.

I mean, Jesus. Just keep it consistent.

[–]matthew_lane 15ポイント16ポイント  (6子コメント)

Well to be fair, Hercules was never bisexual in the 616 comics & iceman wasn't gay (in icemans case this is just another instance of Bendis fucking with the readership again).

As for Ultimate Spider-Woman she wasn't straight, she was sexually confused & with good reason: She was literally a clone of a male character, in a female body, with a series of extra mental engrams layered over an incomplete copy of her male memories.

I think if anyone is allowed to be sexually confused its Ultimate Jessica Drew.

[–]Dr-DinosaurAtomic Robo 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

I know this isn't the thread for it and I don't want to hijack but I will never stop being angry at the way they mishandled Ultimate Jess. She had so much potential as a character and was absolutely wasted, and now she'll never be in 616. The stories that could have been, the awkward team ups and poignant moments, the sheer potential of it all! Fucking Bendis.

[–]matthew_lane 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are not wrong. I would have much rather had Ultimate Jessica Drew take over Peters role in the Ultimate Universe than Miles Morales, who I personally consider a lame knock off character.

Of course the entire Ultimate universe just went down the drain over the last couple of years, going on a decade now.

[–]U3rikE 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

The article shows that Herc's bisexuality was established in 616. Or at least slyly referenced.

[–]matthew_lane 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

No it shows a joke was made that particular people who wanted it to be true clutched to like a drowing person clutching to a piece flotsam.

This is Hercules we are talking about, a guy who aggressively hits on practically every woman. Now how many times have we seen him hit on male characters? The answer is zero: So your only basis for his supposed sexuality is a throw away joke line.

[–]Kwellbank 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

In the Hercules series it is implied that Hercules and Northstar slept together, implying that Hercules was indeed, bisexual.

[–]matthew_lane 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, in a single throw away joke line it's implied.

One joke does not a sexuality change.

[–]Dr-DinosaurAtomic Robo 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Firstly, great username.

Secondly, was it ever definitively said that U Jessica Drew hooked up with U Johnny Storm? I love U Jess Drew, but I always was under the impression that she was into girls, being basically Peter's mind in a female body, and that Johnny was just making it up. That's definitely a thing that Ultimate Johnny could have done.

[–]ELDRITCH_HORROR 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

She revealed that she did indeed make out with Johnny Storm, after already getting flustered around him.

[–]zarwinianIron Man 49ポイント50ポイント  (14子コメント)

This is way more upsetting than it should be. It seems really odd for them to take this stance for Herc, especially with how they've been pushing diversity in a bunch of other areas.

I liked the concept of bi hercules, it made sense.

[–]randomRedditor2015 16ポイント17ポイント  (11子コメント)

Help me understand this? what is your basis for this, the one comment from Snowbird? or the alt universe relationship with Wolvie?

From what I can tell there was never any hint of Herc as bi, in fact he's routinely been played up as the biggest womanizer in the MU.

Or is this something people are drawing from the greek myths, because no one has seemed to care about any and all divergences from that for the last 30 years.

[–]CrumbsCrumbs 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think a few different people from Herc's past have been under the impression that Amadeus Cho was Herc's eromenos.

Could be remebering that incorrectly, though.

[–]LexFuckingLuthorLex Luthor 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are remembering correctly that people thought that and Herc even felt that a little himself, but it was really brotherly love. Stuff like that is what made Pak's run interesting.

[–]randomRedditor2015 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

This rings a bell.

[–]TimTaylorSoldierSpyRed Hulk 65ポイント66ポイント  (1子コメント)

He can be bi and be the biggest womanizer in the MU. They aren't mutually exclusive.

[–]zarwinianIron Man 38ポイント39ポイント  (2子コメント)

For me, it's the little bits dropped here and there, and the fact that he acts like a super-powered 'The Todd' from "Scrubs." It seems to me to fit with the character to sleep with whatever he finds attractive, be it man or woman.

It's not like them confirming him as straight ruins the character for me, it's just a bit disappointing, since it seems to make him a little less unique.

[–]HoldOnMagnoliaAbe Sapien 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

To he fair it sounds like you kind of made concrete in your head a characterization not really based off a glut of evidence but more the personal feelings you got..

[–]zarwinianIron Man 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sort of. But there were multiple instances of bisexual Hercules, and the Writer of Fall of an Avenger did confirm that here and Northstar slept together. It's not like I pulled this idea out of thin air. There was evidence to back it up and almost nothing before this to prove it wrong.

I'm not a Tumblr-ite with headcanon.

[–]raddaMolly Hayes 23ポイント24ポイント  (1子コメント)

It wasn't just a comment from Snowbird. She directly looked at Namor and Northstar when she made it and Northstar comically noped out of the situation.

That's a pretty fucking strong implication.

It doesn't matter if it was a single comment or not: it happened, and retconning it out is really fucking dumb. There's no reason he can't be bi, even if you've planned for him to have a relationship with a woman or whatever. Spoiler: bisexual men like women, that shouldn't matter.

[–]matthew_lane -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It wasn't just a comment from Snowbird. She directly looked at Namor and Northstar when she made it and Northstar comically noped out of the situation.

That's a pretty fucking strong implication.

LOL that's not a strong implication, it was a single throw away joke. A strong implication would be if a character had said "and you know that Hercules, he loved the cock" at which point all these guys showed up & were all "testify, he was just a great fuck."

THAT would be a strong implication.... This was a single throw away joke you WANT to be true, but isn't. Nothings stopping you from continuing to maintain your head canon in which he's Dumbledore gay, but that's all it will be; head canon.

[–]GnivilNamor -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In all seriousness, while I may laugh at SJWs calling both Marvel and the reader homophobic for making him straight. This is just as dumb (if not dumber) than making Iceman gay. Just not for reasons of 'diversity' or shit like that

コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

    [–]LexFuckingLuthorLex Luthor 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I hope Herc shows up in Greg Pak's Hulk and kisses the shit out of Amadeus Hulk's face.

    [–]ZerujinNightcrawler 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    And then it gets called platonic. No gay allowed.

    [–]TheMercWithoutFearDaredevil 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I don't understand why Alonso had to be so adamant about this particular point. It feels like he's being contrarian simply for the sake of being contrarian.

    In recent years, Marvel have had several instances where they changed established characters' sexuality in rather haphazard fashion, in ways that don't exactly match with those characters' history and characterization (with Iceman being the most recent example) and that actually don't serve the stories until someone decides to actually explore those elements.

    Here, we've got Herc. A character that a lot of people love and that almost everyone accepts as being bissexual: his characterization (both in comics and mythology) and previous appearances make this orientation seem very organic for the character, in ways don't take away anything from him but make him feel richer by opening the door for interesting stories. However, this is the one guy that Marvel felt like they had to actively come out and proclaim: "no, this guy is straight, so stop saying he's bi!"

    Which I could get if Abnett was only looking to have Hercules pursue female love interests, but even if that were the case, him being bi wouldn't stop that. However, him being straight is going to stop him from pursuing male love interests. And if changing something about an established character closes doors that had once been open storytelling-wise, one has to ask if that change really was necessary or worthwhile...

    I'll still be buying Hercules when it comes out, because everything about the title sounds promising. However, the way Alonso worded his statement was a bit off-putting.

    [–]ZerujinNightcrawler 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Now he's as clueless as Bendis in my book.

    [–]smileimhigh 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Why would you take a bisexual character that's historically accurate and a well represented badass and make him not bisexual that's like the antithesis of what they are doing elsewhere

    [–]JackissocoolGhost Rider (Robbie Reyes) 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I hope it was just something that slipped their mind that they hadn't really thought about and they'll go to fixing it now that it's been brought up. Fingers crossed.

    [–]VanGundysBaldHeadTony Chu -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No it isn't... it's exactly what they're doing elsewhere. It's just another arbitrary change for the sake of change that doesn't really make much sense, like Iceman.

    [–]itsyourgrandmaLuthor Strode 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    God marvel why cut out interesting character facets like that? I guess there aren't enough strong straight dudes in the marvel universe...

    [–]dmull387My Name is Wally West and I'm the Fastest Man Alive 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I really wish that interviewer had brought up 616 Herc's funeral scene instead.

    [–]vadergeekMadman 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This article makes it seem almost like some sort of conspiracy, rather than (as I suspect) Alonso pointing out that alternate universe stories are irrelevant and forgetting/ not knowing about Herc's occasional bisexual reference. Do these people think he has every Marvel comic memorized? Herc's bisexuality in the comics amounts to, what, a brief joke at his funeral? Alonso just doesn't seem to be aware that Herc is bi in 616, which is understandable.

    [–]BeloitMorbius 30ポイント31ポイント  (31子コメント)

    I can't wait for the people who keep slamming Fem Thor for not staying true to the source material "because Thor's a dude in Norse mythology!" find ways to justify a straight Hercules despite him often being portrayed as bisexual in Greek mythology.

    Edit: Lol. Yeah, I suppose instead of writing a compelling argument you could just go through my comment history and downvote away. That'll show me! That'll show everyone your dislike stems from a rational place and you're able to discuss it like an adult!

    [–]PYRO49Magneto 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

    I didn't like female Thor and I don't like straight Hercules. Both were bad moves in my opinion.

    [–]NK1337 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

    I just didn't like that female Thor was Jane =/. I was really hoping it'd be Roz

    [–]ZerujinNightcrawler 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

    It was? Way to go with the most obvious, huh?

    [–]NK1337 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I think there are moments where the obvious choice can be used to great effect, like Bucky taking over the mantel of cap. They weren't shy about showing who was taking over and made the transition an interesting part of the narrative.

    But there are other times when it just seems lazy, especially when they play it up as such a big mystery only to have it be the most obvious choice. I feel like it takes away from story and makes the events seem inconsequential.

    [–]ZerujinNightcrawler 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Sure, there's history between Bucky and Cap that makes it organic to go in that direction. Unless I've missed something with Jane Foster, it doesn't feel right or make sense.

    [–]NK1337 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I agree completely. Not to mention a few issues before Jane was reprimanding Thor and denouncing anything having to do with magic. So it seemed a bit Hamfisted for her to suddenly show up as the new Thor

    [–]Terraneaux 22ポイント23ポイント  (14子コメント)

    I doubt those people will be making a stink about it. But keep up with your strawmen.

    [–]thehypotheticalnerd 8ポイント9ポイント  (13子コメント)

    Pretty sure that's the point...they won't be making a stink about it because they're making him something thay those people identify with and have no issue with.

    [–]SanchoLovesToDrawElijah Snow 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Riiiiight... Because people who don't like Thor for whatever reason are a homogenous "they" who all share bigoted intentions?

    Maybe I just think it's some of Jason Aaron's worst writing - a writer I generally like a lot. Maybe people are invested in the character - the new Thor is not Odinson while Hercules is still Hercules (even if I like him better as bi-sexual).

    I'm just sick of the bad faith and guilt baiting that I hear from some folks who would try to imply that you either like a certain book or you're a (misogynist, homophobe, racist, insert one here).

    [–]PYRO49Magneto 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I'm sorry but that's bull. I'm pretty pissed that they made Hercules straight and I wasn't a fan of the female Thor. I felt that Hercules was a really cool bi-character. Like he wasn't a check on a list to fulfill a diversity quota or something. He was a fully realized character and he just happened to be bi. And they removed that aspect of him. Female Thor, I wasn't against the premise, just the execution of said idea but that's an entirely different conversation.

    [–]thehypotheticalnerd -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Then that's different. There are people who were against the idea of a female Thor (or a new/different version of a character like Sam as Cap) just on principle.

    Disliking the execution is a lot different than disliking the concept itself...

    [–]Terraneaux 5ポイント6ポイント  (9子コメント)

    Could you point me to someone who had a problem with Hercules being bisexual in the first place? It sounds like you're complaining about people who don't exist.

    [–]thehypotheticalnerd -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

    People didn't have a problem with a male Thor either. Marvel decided to switch things up and introduce a female Thor. Female fans seemed to enjoy it because more representation but male fans went red in the face and hated Marvel's "SJW pandering" and "forcing PC views into the comics". One of the biggest criticisms was that Thor in mythology is a man and thus a Fem Thor is a bad thing because Thor isn't a woman. First off, that ignored the entire premise of Mjolnir choosing those who are worthy and the fact that others have wielded the hammer and became Thor in the past.

    So those people, the ones who were upset at a female Thor going against established real world Norse mythology... most likely will not give a shit that Hercules will be heterosexual as opposed to bisexual like he is in actual mythology and the few times it's been hinted at in 616. Why? Because it aligns with their own views and doesn't appear to be some sort of "attack" on their nerdworld. In other word: hypocrites!

    [–]Terraneaux 9ポイント10ポイント  (6子コメント)

    First off, that ignored the entire premise of Mjolnir choosing those who are worthy and the fact that others have wielded the hammer and became Thor in the past.

    No, they got the powers of Thor. When BRB picked up the hammer, he did not become Thor - he got the power. That's the difference.

    I'm one of those people who thinks that the female Thor bit was poorly written and pandering, but has no problem with a bisexual Hercules - though if they portrayed his sexuality as actual Greek 'bisexuality' it would get the SJW crowd in quite a tizzy.

    [–]thehypotheticalnerd -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Right but it's not like she suddenly became Odinson either. He was still in the comics. She simply took on the name Thor.

    Sort of like when Dick Grayson became Batman while Bruce was dead. Or Bucky as Captain America. Same thing only instead of Odinson dying, he was no longer worthy of wielding the hammer. I fail to see how that is in some way an egregious offense.

    [–]Terraneaux 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Thor is his name. Not his hero title. Furthermore, the comic was a hamfisted ball of feminism this, buzzwords that. It was definitely pandering.

    X-13 as Wolverine? Great! You know what she's not? Logan.

    [–]PYRO49Magneto 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

    That's the real issue. The "goes agaisnt the mythology" honestly isn't that popular an argumen. Thor isn't a title. It's the guy's name. "Dick, you're Bruce Wayne, now." Having a woman take mjonir and the powers of thor is a pretty cool idea. But having her take the dude's name? Why not distance the character and have her create her own title? Obviously, not She-Thor.

    [–]thehypotheticalnerd -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I guess the idea is similar to the whole "the world needs a Batman" thing that pops up from time to time like when Dick became Batman or in Beyond. The only difference was that Thor never had a hero name so she simply took on the name that everyone knew him by. His name was his hero name.

    I get where you're coming from but I just think the mentality behind it was "well if Thor Odinson is outta commission... I'll just take on his name myself." I'm not saying it's 100% perfect or anything either. The name honestly doesn't bug me too much because that's how I look at it. The name became more of a symbol once he became a well known hero and saved the world numerous times with the Avengers.

    [–]vadergeekMadman 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Thor's not even out of commission, though, he just had to swap weapons.

    [–]zarwinianIron Man 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The problem is that Thor DOES have a title, which is easily taken: God of Thunder.

    The fem-thor thing was incredibly poorly handled.

    [–]matthew_lane -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    raises hand

    I have a problem with it.... Or at least I have a problem with people complaiing that a character that has never been presented as bisexual in any of the source material is suddenly being targeted because the writers plan to continue not to present the character as gay (and yes I am aware of that one throw away joke line at his funeral).

    Same reason I'd be pissed if DC brought out a new Batwoman book & people complained that it was hetero-phobic that Batwoman wasn't straight now, on the basis of a single throw away joke, made in a single issue.

    Comic book Hercules is straight, aggressively straight, to the point of his womanizing ways having been used by countless writers for comedic value. The amount of times we've ever seen Hercules hitting on a guy, is zero.

    Sure mythological Hercules was probably bisexual, but there is a joke among historians about ancient Greece that goes like this: In ancient Greece do you know what they used to use to separate the men from the boys? A crowbar.

    Fact is that Marvel 616 Hercules is as different from Mythological Hercules, as he is from DC universe Hercules & Disney movie Hercules. They are all separate IP's with their own unique traits & should be treated as such.

    [–]GnivilNamor 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Holy shit that strawman.

    [–]vadergeekMadman 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I can't wait for the people who keep slamming Fem Thor for not staying true to the source material "because Thor's a dude in Norse mythology!

    The argument is more like "Thor is the name of a person still alive in Marvel, it doesn't make sense to give it away".

    [–]BeloitMorbius -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

    That's another argument entirely. There are definitely people who keep insisting that having a female Thor is not true to Norse mythology, just like Heimdall being black in the MCU is supposedly completely wrong too because "there aren't any black people in Norse mythology."

    [–]vadergeekMadman 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I've never seen that opinion on r/comicbooks. It's possible a few people think it, but it's not a popular critique. Also, I suspect that if you cast a white man as Anansi Marvel would be up to its ears in accusations of racism.

    [–]BeloitMorbius -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I wasn't talking about /r/comicbooks specifically. I've seen plenty of it in other places, including people boycotting Marvel because of the changes not being true to the source material.

    [–]matthew_lane 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Ditto & reverse it for the people who keep on arguing that comic book Thor isn't Mythology Thor.... fun how selective some people are when its something they want.... Actually no, the word I'm looking for isn't selective, the word I'm looking for is intellectually dishonest (no I'm not talking about you specifically).

    My problem with Fem-Thor was simply that she was a terrible character, in a terribly written book: There were many ways to make a good Fem-Thor book, but the book we got wasn't it & that disappoints me purely on those grounds.

    Not that the previous version of Male Thor was any better, but it at least has the excuse of not being a new character in a new status-quo.

    [–]thestrugglesreal 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Not to mention... And more internally important... Gay in past Marvel books (Hercules and Alt wolverine were husbands)

    [–]vadergeekMadman 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Wasn't that an alt Hercules? And therefore not really relevant to 616 Herc's orientation?

    [–]ArnoldoBassistiAtomic Robo 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    why is that more internally important? He was strongly implied to be bi in 616 continuity at his funeral and also during the Pak and Van Lente run where his mythological past relationships were heavily hinted at.

    [–]GnivilNamor 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

    The fucking butthurt this has on twitter... I never thought I'd ever be supporting Dan fucking Slott.

    [–]xboxpants 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    wait... what does this have to do with dan slott?

    [–]GnivilNamor 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Twitter, basically.

    [–]VanGundysBaldHeadTony Chu 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    He's being attacked by bigots who disagree with the idea.

    [–]nimuymuynitantanKitty Pryde 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    TIL 616 Herc was bi.

    [–]DarthKarthrotBatman Beyond 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I just hope its not the rapey Hercules from Secret Wars 2099 lol

    [–]ariwakeVision 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm just waiting for the moment in which this isn't news and everyone accepts who everyone is.

    [–]randomRedditor2015 12ポイント13ポイント  (22子コメント)

    All-New All-Different Marvel Will Feature All-Heterosexual Hercules

    That would be completely consistent with the the 616 depiction for over 30 years with the exception of an implication made by Snowbird in a single issue? Oh I see why we must fire up the controversy machine!

    [–]LexFuckingLuthorLex Luthor 25ポイント26ポイント  (2子コメント)

    It's pretty consistent with how Greg Pak wrote him, which was when people started to give a shit about Herc. Hell, half the time in Hercs mind you see him thinking about Hylas, and even how Amadeus reminds him of him sometimes. I read the books, Herc was bi, and it's pretty annoying to see this.

    Do you know how many positive bisexual male characters are out there? In Marvel, there's none now, it's down to Loki and Daken, and these guys are rapey assholes. It's genuinely upsetting to me.

    [–]ArnoldoBassistiAtomic Robo 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Prodigy exists, but I guess Teddy wouldn't let him join New Avengers after the shit he pulled with Billy.

    [–]randomRedditor2015 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Okay, thanks. I guess my memories of Paks run are vague. Must re-read it, it was awesome.

    [–]hargendarsh 13ポイント14ポイント  (18子コメント)

    Inconsistent with the Greek myths and he's been implied to be bisexual in 616 before. Herc is and always has been primarily attracted to women, that doesn't mean he's only attracted to women.

    This kind of bi erasure is disappointing to see.

    [–]randomRedditor2015 3ポイント4ポイント  (17子コメント)

    Implied once? I've seen one example. Honestly asking, I cannot recall noticing this in the Herc i've read.

    Inconsistent with the Greek myths

    Yeah I can see this point, but Thor and every other character drawn some such myths are fairly inconsistent with the particulars of their mythical, non comic-book, lives.

    [–]hargendarsh 12ポイント13ポイント  (16子コメント)

    That's true Thor is widely inconsistent with the myths and I honestly don't expect them to restrict themselves to the myths either and I'm still gonna get this book.

    I think I'm mostly disappointed because they had laid clues, like somebody else posted I viewed him as like Todd from Scrubs he'd sleep with anybody he found attractive. They then went back on that and basically said no he's entirely heterosexual.

    Marvel has an unfortunate recent history with what I'm sure was never intended to come across as bi erasure but it kind of does. When Teen Jean outs Teen Bobby she shoots down any notion of bisexuality, when Logan envisions a perfect life with for his son its a heterosexual one and Loki I've read he's bisexual but it'd be damn near impossible to tell from reading his ongoing.

    I'm disappointed because I wanted this to be a real chance for more authentic diversity. Not that I wanted it to be over the top and a series of him constantly railing dudes but more like the recent relaunch of Constantine The Hellblazer over at DC. I just don't like the move away from diversity when the seeds were already there.

    [–]ArnoldoBassistiAtomic Robo 2ポイント3ポイント  (14子コメント)

    People keep telling me Deadpool is bi or pan too, but that's...nothing. There's what, a throwaway gag about it? Nothing else?

    Also Dan Slott is currently a fucking shit show on Twitter right now. Marvel has fucking Problems.

    [–]Jay_R_KayBatman 2ポイント3ポイント  (13子コメント)

    What's going on with Slott on Twitter?

    [–]ArnoldoBassistiAtomic Robo 3ポイント4ポイント  (12子コメント)

    He spent last night basically shouting down LGBTQA fans and critics and anyone else critical of Marvel's dwindling representation. He tried to say that Axel is very busy and his job is very hard, as if that is a good excuse. He also tried to use titles like Young Avengers (WHICH ISN'T EVEN RUNNING NOW) and Captain and Ms. Marvel to deflect criticism. Then he @-ed Kelly Sue Deconnick in an attempt to bring her into an argument he was having with a critic about Marvel's hiring practices. She promptly noped the fuck out. Gail Simone told him he was reaching.

    [–]Jay_R_KayBatman 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Yeeeesh. Why the fuck does he even care? Is he hoping to get Alonso's job or something?

    [–]ArnoldoBassistiAtomic Robo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I could not even begin to guess, but all he really did was piss off a whole lot of already pissed fans. Time for me to start making empty threats about leaving for ~goooooooood~. At least the reboot is a good jumping off point!

    [–]vadergeekMadman 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

    To be fair, Young Avengers ended recently-ish, and almost everyone from it was or will be prominent (Kate's in Hawkeye, Loki got a solo run, Hulkling and Wiccan are going to be Avengers, etc).

    [–]ArnoldoBassistiAtomic Robo 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

    You know who hasn't been prominent since then? Prodigy, the one who was revealed to bisexual. More importantly though, that doesn't make straight washing Herc okay.

    [–]vadergeekMadman 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

    He was a minor mutant, those guys vanish all the time. And I'm just saying Herc was only lightly implied to be bi, it wasn't a major component.

    [–]GnivilNamor 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No he was saying that simply having a single straight male does not counteract every woman and minority character.

    [–]randomRedditor2015 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Cool.

    I was just struggling to understand why people seemed to think he was definitely bisexual and I think you've answered that very well. Thanks.

    [–]vivvavDeadmod 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

    HOORAY FOR DIVERSITY! GO MARVEL, GO! SHOW US HOW AMAZING YOU ARE AT DIVERSITY SO EVERYBODY CAN KEEP SINGING YOUR PRAISES!

    [–]GnivilNamor 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Yes because a single character being a straight man counteracts every woman and minority character they have.

    [–]mcon96Nico Minoru 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    when was the last time an LGBT person had a solo series at Marvel?

    [–]theforceds 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I've never understood straight people, or men, having anything against non-hetero men. Well, for many reasons, but like...if I walked up to a man and said, "Would you fuck my girl?" and he said "No I'm gay/bi/anything else", why would that be...bad?

    [–]ArnoldoBassistiAtomic Robo 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Some men don't want to be treated the way they treat women.

    [–]ArnoldoBassistiAtomic Robo 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

    So fucking frustrating. Who announces a series, sees people get nervous-excited about the possibility that the character might have a chance to expressly be written as bi, and decides "yeah, let's cut off that possible story"? Like, he could have sidestepped the question with a "we'll stick with how he's been consistently portrayed", left it vague, and if the writer wants to pick up that flag, let them. But nope. Fuck off queer comics fans, we aren't interested in your money.

    [–]vadergeekMadman -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Or he could just be going with the explicit description of how he's been consistently portrayed barring a few good but easy to forget offhanded gags. If they confirmed that Hercules is entirely Greek that isn't telling Armenians to fuck off, it's just having him be Greek.

    [–]Unwind 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This is really disappointing. I was hope something interesting would happen with one of Marvel's few bi male characters when they announced the solo series. Now I doubt I'm going to bother to read it at all.

    [–]mcon96Nico Minoru 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

    wow I was excited for his solo series because I thought they'd write him as bi since Marvel is trying to be more inclusive but I guess not :(

    [–]Dr-DinosaurAtomic Robo 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

    This is what I don't understand: You're implying that your sole interest in the book was his sexuality. Not the art, not the writing, not the quality of the story in general, you only wanted to read the book because the character was bisexual...I just don't understand that. That's like reading Deadpool because you really like chimichangas. If you ultimately don't care about the story then why read comics at all?

    [–]mcon96Nico Minoru 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

    it's definitely not my only interest (I find Greek mythology really interesting, and here it's set in the Marvel universe), but it was a contributing one. sometimes it's just nice to see yourself being represented. It was basically the only thing putting him above Wonder Woman and Thor for me. Now he just seems kind of generic. Honestly, I might still read it, but it's just gonna leave a sour taste in my mouth now that they're making him straight.

    [–]VidogoThe Riddler 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This. I was actually intrigued by him getting his own series, and his sexuality was a contributing factor. Especially if they weren't going to have him be a punchline to a joke. I'm bi, and while I don't count myself in the "thirsty for representation" crowd... it would be nice. Everyone once in a while.

    [–]ZerujinNightcrawler 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Can I hug you? I want to hug you.

    [–]thestrugglesreal 2ポイント3ポイント  (13子コメント)

    That's okay Marvel, while you cower over having what has historically been portrayed as a bisexual character in what is apparently 2005 (don't worry guys he's, uhhh, super straight!!!), I'll be here in the world of 2015 with DC who has the balls to have an openly fully gay solo superhero who kicks ass and bangs dudes.

    Pussies.

    /rant

    [–]ZerujinNightcrawler 4ポイント5ポイント  (10子コメント)

    Who's that? Sounds like my kind of book.

    [–]JimboJimboSliceePre-New 52 Red Robin (Tim Drake) 5ポイント6ポイント  (9子コメント)

    Midnighter. The first two issues are pretty much he kicks Ass, and then has gay sex. It's been pretty good actually. A little too in your face with the gay sex at times for my taste, but it's a compelling story.

    [–]ZerujinNightcrawler 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Good thing straighties never shove it in my face. Wait...

    [–]JimboJimboSliceePre-New 52 Red Robin (Tim Drake) 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Just giving you my opinion of the book dude. No need to get aggressive.

    [–]ZerujinNightcrawler 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

    You think this is aggressive? I just find these comments hilarious and annoying because people seem to think straight sexuality is never shoved in reader's face, but it always, always crops up with queer characters.

    [–]JimboJimboSliceePre-New 52 Red Robin (Tim Drake) 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

    We're two issues in and there's three scenes between them where there are two naked dudes going at it. The closest thing I've seen to that in recent memory with straight people is Red Hood with Starfire. I get what you're saying, but I honestly was just giving you the name and my opinion of the book because you asked and because I don't like a certain aspect you're coming at me. The funny thing is I like the book. I like the story, the characters, all that, I'm just not a huge fan of seeing two dudes have sex. If you do, great, you'll love this, just not my thing.

    [–]ZerujinNightcrawler 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Catwoman bangs Batman on a rooftop for no reason in her first new 52 issue. People didn't seem to care much, but I got yelled at for pointing out the stupidity of it all.

    You are entitled to your opinion but let's not pretend it doesn't happen all the time with straight characters.

    [–]ArnoldoBassistiAtomic Robo 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I love you so much for this, thank you.

    [–]PatiusMichelangelo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    He's also got a special Dick Grayson identification power. Although it appears Barbara Gordon does too.

    [–]vadergeekMadman 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Surely if they were anti-gay they wouldn't have made Hulkling and Wiccan Avengers.

    [–]VanGundysBaldHeadTony Chu 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Since when does Marvel care about history? Bobby Drake's been portrayed as straight longer than most of us have been alive, but that didn't stop him from getting Bendised.

    [–]spiderstingNick Fury 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Too many people have sticks up their asses when it comes to sexual orientation.

    [–]dmull387My Name is Wally West and I'm the Fastest Man Alive 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    <_<

    [–]MathewMurdockDaredevil 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    They do realize that top picture is from an alternate reality right? Also Hercules was bi sure but is that really a major part of his character? I was never sure.

    Either way I just hope the story is good. Bi, gay, straight or whatever.

    [–]Askray184 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Click bait title about one comment taken out of context

    [–]Earthpig_JohnsonThe Goon 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The horror!

    [–]j_utebol 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Hey am I the only one who doesn't give a flying fuck.

    [–]Balc_G -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Ok so uh, this is a real question. Why should I care? Does sexuality really determines who someone is? Can't an asshole be an asshole wethere he's gay or straight or whatever he wants to be? Same for a bad-ass? Why should I like the character less because he's straight? What is the big deal? I really don't understand what is so bad about this. They're not denying the bi existing, or whatever. Isn't Prodigy bi? Aren't most of the (last volume's) Young Avengers gay/bi?

    Sexual orientations should NOT be selling points to anything, be it comics, books, movies, etc. (Edit: Because focusing on it makes it seem like its a big deal to be gay/bi/straight/wtv when it should be trivial and not the most important facette of someone). It's marvel's spin on Hercules, not a historical recollection of the legends and whatnot. I really don't get it.

    Does that change anything about possible stories? How does it infer with the enjoyment of a book? "Oh man he's not bi, this is soooo lame" sounds exactly the same as "Oh man, this character is gay, this is so lame" as if everything was unidimensional.

    So, really, I ask: why is this even relevant?

    [–]ZerujinNightcrawler 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Representation matters. Being invisible and ridiculed in media sucks donkey ball. That's the short of it.

    [–]johnlongestTony Chu 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think it's weird to tell someone why they "should" care. Everyone has different values and is concerned about different things, so the concept of convincing someone to care is tough for me.

    Anyway, the reason people have been discussing this like it's the end of the world [I don't think it is] is because LGBT representation matters to them. When there are so few LGBT characters as it is having just one [and it's up for debate whether he is bi or not, I guess] being decidedly marked as straight is a big loss.

    It doesn't affect the stories being told or the character himself, as both are entirely dependent on whoever is writing the title. What it does affect is people who were looking and hoping for a bisexual character to relate to.

    And yes, there are others, and yes of course people can relate to people who vary a great deal from them, but it sucks when that's basically their only option. As an Asian kid growing up in North America there were so few people who looked like me, ethnically, that I ended up gravitating towards characters who wore glasses. Straight-up, it's why blue is my favourite colour today [thanks to Billy/Blue Ranger].

    People can and probably still will enjoy the book if Abnett does his job to the best of his abilities. I don't think it's really in my abilities to make you care, but hopefully that was enough to help you understand why other people do.

    [–]NumberNull -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    So, really, I ask: why is this even relevant?

    Because outrage culture demands it.

    [–]SpartanzaWiccan -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    So wait. It's applaud worthy when they make a character gay. But if they choose to not have a character go the route of a single alternate universe it's bedlam and off with marvels head?

    Look I'm all for LGBT representation in comics hell I love it since I am gay. But I mean jesus stay consistent with your outrage. So they wanna keep Hercules straight. BIG DEAL GROW THE FUCK UP AND GET OVER IT. STOP THIS FUCKING CIRCLE JERK OF MUH DIVERSITY