上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 261

[–]Dr_Fargo1Ajax. 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

So why does Fronj, who apparently made Clayrocks ineligible, get off free? Or am I missing something here? Also this whole situation is ridiculous. Unless you have proof that an offer was made, both Fronj and Clay deny that there was an offer. Legman was completely right to make an offer because to the best of his knowledge Clay was eligible. He even asked the commissioners to let him know if they knew that Clay was ineligible. So if it is Legman's fault that he signed an ineligible player, shouldn't blame also fall onto the Commissioners for not recognizing that Clay was ineligible. And why the different punishments? How the hell does Fronj get nothing when Clay and Legman are suspended? If you punish one, punish them all. It is shit like this that makes the players and the community in general lose faith in the leadership and it will kill MLTP.

[–]BrokedownDeLoreanDEATH PICKLE "GRAND OVERLORD OF ALLCAPS" 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I dont see why Fronj would be penalized unless I am missing something. He simply asked Clay to join his mLTP team... correct?

[–]Dr_Fargo1Ajax. 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

According to Fronj, no offer was made. MLTP leadership says one was, and punishments are being handed down because of it. So if this is the case I think Fronj should be punished as well. However in the rule regarding reporting callup offers, it says that Captains should report any callup offers to the leadership. According to MLTP, the 'should' in the rule makes it more of a suggestion than a requirement, which is why he is not being punished.

[–]BrokedownDeLoreanDEATH PICKLE "GRAND OVERLORD OF ALLCAPS" 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If fronj didn't ask, isn't this a non issue?

[–]GrantWishesAnnaKendrick 11ポイント12ポイント  (13子コメント)

Drama and scandal aside, I do think that this shows that the NLTP call-up rule needs to at least be looked at in the off season. I just find it kind of silly that if a NLTP player gets one bad offer (in this case, being a bench player for GB), that it rules them out for all other minors teams that could give them a better offer (30SMB offering significant playing time).

I don't blame a player for wanting playing time, and the current way the rule is set up makes it so players who get a cruddy first offer (due to playing time or ping) essentially have to take it and make it work or stay in NLTP for the season. And honestly, I don't think telling people to just "take the call-up, get in mLTP, and figure the rest out later" is the attitude that should be taken.

I don't have a solution to this right now, but I think it's something we should take some time to look at in the off season, possibly something to discuss further in a "rules discussion" thread similar to what we had this off season.

[–]DaaCoachBull // CB[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (12子コメント)

Naw keep it up! How can we make this rule solid? Don't wait to bring up ideas. I'm all ears at least.

[–]MyproblemsseemsmallDonkey Kong// Not MLTP Whoo! 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Not just that as above, it's easily exploitable. Hell, one team could technically go through all the top stats players in NLTP making official offers for bench spots and they'd all become ineligible. The rule should encourage call-ups, not beat them down so no one does them.

[–]DaaCoachBull // CB[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yea I don't like that exploit either.

Ideally, the improved rule would make it hard to team shop. We don't want the worst teams to be stuck in a pit of suck because they can't pick anyone up. However there's some nuance there - what if two captains offer a spot to a guy at the same time? What if two captains want to practice with him and gauge interest?

Any ideas?

[–]MyproblemsseemsmallDonkey Kong// Not MLTP Whoo! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly, I don't think team shopping will be that much of an issue. People are still going to say no if they really only want to be on one or two teams. You can't force them to take the offer from the worst team for example. It's not like it would be people making fantasy teams. Idk, I just see it as simple with people being people. The reality is someone may really want one team, but if another team has a bunch of playing time available, common sense prevails. Clay even showed that.

[–]FaithNHumanityStatusKnuckles // Lava Monsters // RGB 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wonder if a waiver system for callup would work here. Provide the current worst teams priority in callups. Thing is, you have minors players that you can and should move to Majors if you need players. So top teams should be mostly using their minors squad. The worse teams can use all the help they can get. If they feel NLTP players can provide that help they should get priority in reaching out. Then you can arrange the eligibility around that. If the 1st waiver team makes an offer, and it's rejected, then that player can't get picked up until the next waiver period (perhaps every 2 or 3 weeks?) I dunno I just thought this up just now.

[–]RonSpawnsonTP 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'll bite: the rules shouldn't use weasel words like "should". If it's a rule that is intended to be followed and the word "must" must be used. Otherwise it's just a recommendation and not a rule.

This is very similar to requirements gathering in the business world. Any business rules need to use words such as "must" and "shall" rather than "should" since should is open to interpretation.

[–]DaaCoachBull // CB[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed there 100%.

[–]Dr_Fargo1Ajax. 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

How about if the offer made to the NLTP player was deemed 'not a significant role' (this could be defined by the amount of playing time promised or whether that player would become a starter) than the NLTP player would still be able to accept other offers that come in. If the NLTP player declines an offer that is a significant role, then he cannot be called up. This prevents team shopping but allows for the NLTP player to go to a good situation. IDK I came up with this in like 30 seconds. Also I agree with Ron Spawnson, get rid of the 'should' in the rule regarding reporting declined offers.

[–]DaaCoachBull // CB[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Interesting idea. I like the potential of formalizing the pickup negotiation process. What if it went from:

Gauging interest -> Practice offer -> Loan offer -> Callup offer

It may be more complex, and captains can choose to skip steps in the process, too, but IDK if it's possible to build a solid transactional model there.

[–]BilldaCat10 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bull, why is team shopping even a concern. Half the teams this draft didn't even choose to draft a full squad. If there was some NLTP ringer, they should have gone in the regular draft. All the teams had a shot at NLTP players then.

Let the NLTP player go where they want. Adding another level of discretion as to what is considered a significant offer is crazy.

[–]XelifHappy Ferret | NLTP captain 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Guarantee playing time to NLTP callups?

  • When proposing a callup to a NLTP player, the captain will offer X minutes of playing time. Formal callups will include X.
  • The offered playing time is binding upon the captain. Violations are penalized by deducting standings points according to this chart: [insert some controversial chart to be vetoed here].
  • A player may reject a callup proposal of less than an average of Y minutes of playing time per week and retain eligibility for future callups.
  • Captains must report all callup offers, formal and informal, accepted and rejected, along with the proposed playing time.
  • The commissioners may waive the playing time requirement at the request of the captain. The commissioners should approve waivers if the player is unavailable for an extended period, has technical issues that prevent him/her from playing as normal, does not show up for a game where he/she would have reasonably expected to receive playing time, some other circumstance beyond the captain's control prevents the player from playing, or the player concurs with the requests. The commissioners should not approve waivers for relative lack of skill, inability to play on certain servers that the captain knew about (or ought to have known about) prior to the callup, future free agent additions or callups playing better, or any other circumstance that the captain knew about or ought to have anticipated prior to the callup. It is the captain's responsibility to make a playing time offer that he/she is willing to honor.

Suggested value for Y: 15 minutes/week on average for the remainder of the season, rounded down to the nearest 10 minute interval.

edit: this is just brainstorming and I think this system may be a little more complicated than ideal, but you get the point

[–]FaithNHumanityStatusKnuckles // Lava Monsters // RGB 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I skimmed but it makes it almost like a currency. Kinda interesting thinking of it that way.

[–]Slama_BananaLegman 28ポイント29ポイント  (41子コメント)

Alright I'd like to start off and defend my actions / my team:

I would like to start by clarifying a few things in regards to the modmail I sent to my team. I worded it in pretty much the worst way possible, and still maintain that Fronj DID NOT offer ClayRocks a callup. As far as I was aware, I knew that Fronj had talked to clay, but did not know whether or not a callup offer was made.

The miswording in the modmail was due to me assuming that Fronj had probably made a callup offer, and I was relying on any potential offers being brought to light by Fronj / the commissioners (if Fronj had reported a callup) to determine if the callup was legitimate. In hindsight it was a poor decision to not speak with Fronj directly, as he would likely try to avoid calling me out if he had made an offer to Clay. In fact the night of the callup, I went to PrivateMajor on Steam, and asked if there was anything wrong with the callup, would it be reported to me. When it went through, I figured everything was done legally.

At the time of the modmail post, I was also under the impression from the following rule:

"If a player has rejected being called up to a team, the Captain or Vice-Captain of the team should inform the commissioners so they can tag that player as being ineligible for MLTP for Season 8."

that if Fronj had not reported any potential callups, that clay would still be eligible for callup to MLTP. This explains my stating that I hoped Fronj didn't say anything (if he had made an offer), and my asking ash to stay quiet on the matter.

Bull has pointed out to me that I “conveniently” left out the first part of the rule that states:

“NLTP players can reject being signed onto an MLTP team if they think its in their best interest (if you are filling a bench role it might be better to stay NLTP for example). But if they reject it once, they will be ineligible to play MLTP for the entirety of the season. This is to prevent players picking and choosing which MLTP team they want to go to.”

Since ClayRocks never rejected any offer to join another team, his callup was made completely legally and in accordance with the rules.

With all that in mind, I'd also like to take responsibility that my actions in hiding this from the commissioners, and repeatedly denying it was wrong of me, and that I understand a punishment directed towards me for those actions.

Once again I maintain that ClayRocks did nothing wrong in this situation, and the callup of him was made legally. I have personally talked to Fronj, and ClayRocks, and both confirmed to me that no official offer was made. Myself and my teammates have tried countless times to relay this information to commissioners, including vocally while talking to them, and by sending private messages, but did not receive acknowledgement.

Here is an excerpt from modmail:

http://gyazo.com/facd5421d3fbf6d9fa4c3eacc2529b20

“I never asked him to be part of my team” - Fronj “He(clay) did not specifically say "I do not want to join your team"” - Fronj

I think the punishments given out are absurd, considering that no rules are broken, and the callup was made completely legally. I can understand a penalty against myself for my poorly worded modmail, but even then anything more than a censure is a stretch…

In my opinion, the rules need to be changed if they want to prevent something like this happening again, and it's unfair to retroactively punish a team that didn’t do anything wrong.

I am sorry to my team that I let them down, and apologize for tarnishing what would have otherwise been a good season.

tl;dr: The callup of ClayRocks did not break any rules, no rules were intended to be broken by me / my team, still getting punished in the highest degree possible.

If anybody has any questions for me or arguments on why clay should have been kicked out, let me know and I'll try to provide my thoughts.

[–]trendygrubpirat s6/7 | merbs s8 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

the rules need to be changed if they want to prevent something like this happening again, and it's unfair to retroactively punish a team that didn't do anything wrong.

Yeah this right here is the big thing. It's stupid that anyone is getting punished (except Dino's punishment is justified, lol) for something that wasn't against the rules. And I really can't understand how the captains voted to remove Clay from BMB.

[–]Ballymandias// S7-8 LagProne Captain // S6 KGB 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

for something that wasn't against the rules.

NB4 "interpretation"

[–]Slama_BananaLegman 25ポイント26ポイント  (10子コメント)

Edit: Catalyst did not reject an initial offer and was lumped in with the others for some reason:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MLTP/comments/3fg67p/announcement/ctod6x7
https://www.reddit.com/r/MLTP/comments/3fg67p/announcement/ctodgqh

Also, my face when someone “cheating the system” can’t be trusted to captain anymore, when someone who did the exact same thing (but knowingly broke the rules) is one of the leaders of the league and was part of punishing myself / my team.

PrivateMajor adds players who rejected MLTP callups to his practice squad. He notes that they are ineligible for MLTP:
http://gyazo.com/ef59b7b3ba497cdf502afdd0346c95f9

PrivateMajor calls up one of these ineligible players to his real roster:
http://gyazo.com/f55bf272848329efff8be703f473f0bf

Catalyst on team roster:
http://gyazo.com/b5ad906ed234d31560aa66817d01eb31

Proof the rule existed in S5: http://gyazo.com/2c79372dd57b171008da37e8c7cd04bc

Also to anybody who thinks it is ok since these players rejected a callup offer to his own team earlier, they would still be ineligible for any other team to pick up in the mean time, so why would they be eligible for only 1 team?

[–]catalyst518Catalyst || BC[🍰] 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

Legman, what you have posted is incorrect.

I never rejected a callup during S5.

However, there was a complicated issue where I was almost picked up by Ballchimedes but it did not go through since the co-captain (ginseng) made the waiver pick without the captain's (Chalksy) knowledge.

Proof:

Thread where I was picked up via the waiver process but Chalksy says he didn't confirm the pick: https://www.reddit.com/r/MLTP/comments/2431qy/nltp_mltp_waiver_pickups_official/ch39oae

My conversation with ginseng regarding the pick: http://puu.sh/jlSEN/c68c540772.png

My conversation with PrivateMajor regarding the situation: http://puu.sh/jlSHT/4c0b93f0f6.png

Chalksy's message to me regarding the situation: http://puu.sh/jlTqH/69c1378280.png

I confirmed with PM on mumble that I was still eligible to be picked up by any team since I did not decline the original offer.

About two weeks after the waiver ordeal, PM initiated contact with me with regards to putting my on the practice squad, and then I got officially picked up several days after that.

The wording of the post in your first screenshot seems to have lumped me in with trendygrub and Mojosto who were indeed ineligible, but I promise it is incorrect.

[–]Slama_BananaLegman 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

While I'm not trying to accuse you of any wrongdoing, PrivateMajor's post says that he tried to call you up and you rejected him. You could easily just not include any messages between you and PM regarding that situation to make it seem like the only callup issue was with Chalksy's team. If you can provide proof otherwise I'd be happy to edit it into my comment.

[–]catalyst518Catalyst || BC[🍰] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I understand how it would seem I could easily hide any rejected offers, but what incentive do I have to do so? I just wanted to make my post to let you know that your post was factually incorrect. I couldn't care less if people want to hate on PM.

If you do think I am hiding a rejected offer, how would I provide proof? I would have to screenshot my entire reddit inbox/outbox to show there were no private offers made to me (which there aren't), but you could easily just keep saying that I edited something out of the screenshots as you claim now. Other than giving you my reddit login for you to personally scan all of my inbox, what reasonable method of proof would satisfy you?

[–]catalyst518Catalyst || BC[🍰] 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Okay, I think I have more proof for you. If you go to the thread that you took a screenshot of where PM says "Since they have rejected us, that makes them ineligible from joining any MLTP teams this season", you'll notice I correct PM in a comment on that thread saying I was indeed still eligible.

The thread (it's public for everyone): https://www.reddit.com/r/protagonists/comments/25tz3a/adding_practice_squad_players/

My comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/protagonists/comments/25tz3a/adding_practice_squad_players/chkvxmb

Screenshot just in case: http://puu.sh/jlV6U/e8ad4bdc7f.png

[–]aballogy_acceptedSorry 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I believe in Catalyst! (^-^ 7 )

[–]Slama_BananaLegman 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Alright thanks for the update, I'll update my comment saying that it was legit.

[–]trendygrubpirat s6/7 | merbs s8 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yea just to provide some context though, there was nothing against the rules for NLTP players to attend MLTP practices. None of us were affiliated with the Protagonists in any way, really. I had definitely gone to a few other teams practices on random occasions.

I didn't remember that about Catalyst joining the team though, idk how the hell that happened.

[–]Slama_BananaLegman 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Private Major specifically states that they denied callups and were therefore ineligible to be picked up. He then called one up. The practice squad bit didn't break any rules.

[–]trendygrubpirat s6/7 | merbs s8 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah that is actually pretty fucked up. Idk how he was able to do that.

[–]ClayRocks69 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

probably because hes privatemajor

[–]Dinosawyerr 13ポイント14ポイント  (26子コメント)

Hijacking top post to make a comment too.

After 3 weeks of ClayRocks playing minors we have...

ClayRocks-Happy he gets to play minors

Legman-Happy he gets an enthusiastic minors player

Superdiglett- Happy Clay gets his shot in minors

Fronj-Could not care less that one of his minors backup's backup options that he had briefly considered 4 weeks prior was now playing minors.

Literally nobody else was effected. No offense to ClayRocks but it's not as if he's some insanely desirable callup stud that tilted the league fairness balance in BMB's favor.

And we feel the need to screw all of this up and make it a big to-do due to nothing but the CRC's interpretation of a very ambiguous rule. PM literally says it in modmail, "We have different interpretations." So instead of being proactive and using this opportunity to fix the rule and keep people happy somehow the obligation is there to dole out heavy handed punishments.

The reasoning that I got that this needed this punishment was that "Fronj was such a nice guy and secretly cared inside although he doesn't say so" which is a joke.

So I could see the writing on the wall, that it was going to be posted on the sub with little context as to Fronj's thoughts and the insane rule ambiguity that led people to not know what counted as a callup and how much was needed for it to count as a "callup" and if it was valid if the claim was not submitted.

So I posted the modmail to give the public some context so they could think for themselves, because they sure as hell didn't get any context for the last couple issues. I knew there would be some blowback, but I don't really regret it. My inbox is smaller and my team knows that nothing really changes. My only regret that I did the screenshots like 5 minutes before Fronj busted in pissed that they were putting words in his mouth and claiming that they were arguing about intentions that he never once had.

[–]jjpoole7jjpoole 8ポイント9ポイント  (15子コメント)

So I posted the modmail to give the public some context so they could think for themselves, because they sure as hell didn't get any context for the last couple issues.

You posted the modmail discussions, but you also did not post the screenshots that were used as proof by the commissioners. I think the screenshots would show more context of their original decision than the discussions in modmail.

I have asked the CRC to post the evidence they used, because I still think there are a bunch of people in this thread that are talking about things they don't really know or have complete context for, for better or worse.

We'll see what they do.

[–]mltpublicinfo 14ポイント15ポイント  (13子コメント)

[–]Dr_Fargo1Ajax. 7ポイント8ポイント  (9子コメント)

This changes things

[–]udrinkbullsemen~Fuzzywuzzy~ 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

It really only solidifies the fact that the rule is written in an awful way, Legman thinks its "If he doesn't say anything, it doesn't count as a call up". The way its read by probably the majority of people. But that's not the rule, and the CRC only realizes that now, 2 weeks after the call up.

[–]Dr_Fargo1Ajax. 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Perhaps I'm reading it differently, but the way I interpret the rule is that captains should notify the leadership so that they know the player is ineligible. IMO, if the offer is not reported, the player is still ineligible, it's just that the leadership doesn't know about it. That being said I still think the punishments are too excessive given the amount of disagreement over how to interpret that rule.

[–]udrinkbullsemen~Fuzzywuzzy~ 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

But that's the problem. It's not clear to anyone, and there is no way for Legman to know.

[–]Dr_Fargo1Ajax. 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I agree. That's why I disagree with the punishments handed out for this, because there is so much confusion over the rule. But the way I read the rule, Clayrocks was ineligible, it's just that the leadership didn't know about it.

[–]Dinosawyerr 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's the difference between Fronj reporting the callup and Fronj's reporting makes it a callup. The "should" in the rules allow the rule to be interpreted as both.

[–]liuzerus87 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't see how this changes anything. Given this, how does any of what was posted up there matter?

[–]Dr_Fargo1Ajax. 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Before, I thought that Legman didn't know much about what went on between Fronj and Clay. The posts show that Legman had at least some idea. All it changed was my personal understanding.

[–]FaithNHumanityStatusKnuckles // Lava Monsters // RGB 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yea it changes absolutely nothing because the commissioners supposedly already had this

[–]Dinosawyerr 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

implying all of these messages aren't relying on the interpretation of the rule being "if Fronj reported it as a callup attempt he is ineligible" which is literally the issue here.

Also can we get a DOX up in here i'd like this guy b&

[–]SoconyPengWin 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ban in ...3...2...1

[–]TPStalin$CASH_MONEY$ | Stalin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't be silly, he's posting stuff that makes the CRC look good, why would he be banned?

[–]Dinosawyerr 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I thought about that but most screenshots from both sides were accompanied by "so and so said this. [link]" so I didn't really see it as necessary. Might have helped clarify a few things though.

[–]kstarr12 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

So instead of being proactive and using this opportunity to fix the rule and keep people happy somehow the obligation is there to dole out heavy handed punishments.

This is exactly it. There is still no solution here.

[–]norinhquibble 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel like I deserve an angry post after arbitrarily having a third of my season invalidated. I just wanted to play TagPro.

"In the spirit of this being a fun league with the main emphasis on people enjoying themselves, we felt it would be unfair on CRSD to punish him for a mistake made by the commissioners." - from an eerily similar ELTP post

I guess it's too much to ask that MLTP be more like ELTP and remember that this is just a fun webgame. I feel pretty sick about all the unnecessary time wasted this past week on a pointless investigation where it became obvious in about 5 min that nothing really happened, and then this final outcome. First the commissioners go on a witch hunt where the conclusion was foregone before they released any of the one-sided "evidence" and now the captains turn against us. To be honest, the second part's even more disappointing than the first, to know that your peers who were not directly involved or directly harmed by any of this want to see us punished.

None of the 3 actually involved, Fronj, Leg or Clay, believe that an actual offer was made and therefore no rules were broken. Fronj was the only one who had anything to lose from this, and even he is arguing that nothing happened. The commissioners, on the other hand, are somehow interpreting these actions to be done with (in the words of one commissioner) "malicious and duplicitous intent." No offense, but "malicious" seems to better portray the actions of the commissioners and the majority of captains voting against us, who are the only ones causing actual harm to anyone. No harm no foul right? Apparently wrong.

The worst part is that the focus has so heavily been on how many ways to hell we can be punished that the real issue of this ambiguous and poorly stated rule has been buried. It was and still remains unclear who the responsibility lies on to designate a player ineligible. The commissioners are arguing that the word "should" relieves the captain of any wrongdoing (what a technicality), but then is it really on the player to interpret the vague words of a captain who may or may not be expressing a "formal" interest? In any case, because the commissioners quite blindly and ignorantly never thought the actual rule was at fault, even though that's clearly the culprit here - because that would be admitting some fault on their end and god forbid they had any shortcomings despite everyone else related or unrelated getting fucked over - this exact case could very well happen again. Over the last week no effort has been made except by maybe Bally to actually improve anything. How utterly disappointing.

[–]FDTAEVSwingman // Retired like fuck 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

This shit happens when you have "the rules are the rules, deal with it" people in charge of the league. The league used to be chill, but now it seems the past 2 seasons there has been drama/banning non-stop. It seems that the entire leadership needs to be thrown out, as they have no chill and are rotten to the core.

-two cents from an outsider with experience as an insider

Also: if PrivateMajor enjoys saying "the evidence is in the modmail, i'll show you it" so much, why does he hate other people showing the modmail? Some dank ass double standards man.

[–]norinhquibble 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

because hypocrites never lie

[–]the_winnerhoneybear | Bad News Balls Captain 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Gilded? Where is Felix?

[–]Dinosawyerr 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

[–]the_winnerhoneybear | Bad News Balls Captain 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

literally perfect.

[–]3HunnaBruhBall God 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think you did anything wrong. It shouldn't have been approved if it wasn't legal. Point blank. You got the crappy end of the stick. Sorry Legman

[–]GriefSeeds 33ポイント34ポイント  (67子コメント)

How did anyone in their right mind vote to kick ClayRocks out of this league? He said that he didn't even mean to do anything! I'm actually shaken right now. This brings me memories of last season of when people just think the absolute worst of you.

[–]Ballymandias// S7-8 LagProne Captain // S6 KGB 15ポイント16ポイント  (40子コメント)

I've expressed my opinion multiple times in modmail, and I get mocked and disregarded.

The CLC is 1000x too quick to throw out bans and suspensions, making as big of an impact as they can.

Absolutely no reason for Clay Rocks to be banned from MLTP.

[–]thewthewdrukQs -- that sometimes-retired old guy 6ポイント7ポイント  (36子コメント)

Really? Because they disciplined one person you don't agree with them disciplining? Earlier this season and last season the narrative was "wtf censures? So you're doing nothing to discipline?" They can't both be true, so which is it and how do you figure?

Clayrocks isn't even being disciplined; he was offered a spot by Fronj and declined, rendering him ineligible to play for another MLTP team. Him being removed from the team is just a return to the state the teams/players should be at.

[–]ClayRocks69 6ポイント7ポイント  (31子コメント)

my face when you seem to overlook the fact that there was no callup offer made by fronj

[–]mltpublicinfo 6ポイント7ポイント  (9子コメント)

[–]Dinosawyerr 21ポイント22ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh wait I could have used a throwaway to post this shit? Damn I coulda still been captain and everything.

[–]FaithNHumanityStatusKnuckles // Lava Monsters // RGB 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

U don goofed

[–]dodsfall 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

get out of here you filthy throwaway

[–]ClayRocks69 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

since you're so great at links, can you fetch the one where one of the commissioners were briefly explaining the situation in modmail? i would like to show people a few things on that that can maybe clarify a few things here

[–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]ClayRocks69 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

    well hell, you may be annoying but at least you're neutral

    [–]mltpublicinfo 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

    no horse in this race

    [–]kstarr12 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Say uh...is there a record of the captain vote too? I give backrubs.

    [–]bobby_gordon1TheBob18 || ex-perennial mLTP Player 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Oh b-boy, shits getting spicy!

    [–]Ballymandias// S7-8 LagProne Captain // S6 KGB 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I just want the punishment to fit the crime. If a player is caught cheating or braking a rule, I want them punished. However, IMO, that punishment is to almost never take away playing time.

    The "state this should be at" is the one where the two Captains and the player in question were absolutely, 100% happy with how they were.

    [–]thewthewdrukQs -- that sometimes-retired old guy 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    No decision is going to leave everybody 100% happy.

    Also, why should a captain who broadcasts modmail of captain conversations -- a place where conversations happen in confidence, and need to happen in confidence so captains can speak their minds without getting bullied by outsiders based on half-truths -- why should a captain who breaches that trust get to be happy with where he is?

    Although, IMO Dino shouldn't have even been allowed to be a captain after he tried to go all Edward Snowden/tortured soul during last season's botting ordeal.

    [–]liuzerus87 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

    This is funny given this entire drama came from somebody leaking 30smb's private modmail.

    [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]Ballymandias// S7-8 LagProne Captain // S6 KGB 23ポイント24ポイント  (1子コメント)

      THEN SPEAK THE FUCK UP IN MODMAIL

      [–]bowtieTP 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Grief please, they seem a bit trigger happy lately. I think it's in your best interests to lay low.

      [–]syzlackibis - rgb "captain" 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

      As one of the captains who voted against the veto to allow clay back in, I viewed it less as a punishment and more of what should have been done originally. He denied a callup, so he can't play MLTP.

      [–]Oblivious_Indian_Guy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Can you rationalize removing legman's captaincy?

      [–]brgerdBG//Marble Madness 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      This makes sense to me. The action isnt intended to punish clay who could be innocent of any wrongdoing, but rather it enforces the rules in place. If its ruled that fronj made an offer then he should have been restricted to NLTP regardless. It stinks for him obviously, but is done not as punishment for his actions, but as enforcement of the rules.

      [–]BilldaCat10 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I can't even really be mad at the CRC now. The fact that a majority of captains (and a fairly decisive one at that) voted this way is disappointing.

      [–]thewthewdrukQs -- that sometimes-retired old guy -1ポイント0ポイント  (14子コメント)

      Whether he meant to or not, he team-shopped and that's an unfair advantage that nobody else gets.

      [–]turbedaardvark74 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Did you read the modmail excerpt? He was never offered a spot on ghostboosters.

      [–]ClayRocks69 6ポイント7ポイント  (11子コメント)

      Explain to me how the hell you can team shop if u are only offered a spot on one team?

      [–]kstarr12 21ポイント22ポイント  (5子コメント)

      What the fuck is wrong with this league? Which captains in their right mind feel that this issue needed such punishment?

      Do you want to turn more people away from MLTP? Because this is how you do it.

      Clay did nothing wrong. Legman did nothing wrong. If there's anyone to blame, its fronj(sorry bb) for not reporting the "offer". Which is questionable AT BEST.

      There should be clarification of the rule, that's where the issue is!

      The way this was handled is a mess. There needs to be urgent restructuring of inquiries such as this.

      Absolutely disgusted. What a disappointment. Shame on the leaders of mltp.

      [–]Dr_Fargo1Ajax. 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

      When even nip is disappointed in you, you done fucked up

      [–]norinhquibble 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      well said

      if you pissed off the nicest canadian on tp... and there are a lot of them... plus a girl... that's just bad

      [–]norinhquibble 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      i luv u nips

      [–]kstarr12 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Looooove you more quib!

      [–]AnarchismYookthen 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Fronj didn't have to report it, although they should make a rule that captains do have to report it in the future. But fronj should be thr only one in the clear as far as I can see.

      [–]uhhhhmmmm 13ポイント14ポイント  (8子コメント)

      2 of the best captains gettin kicked out? wasn't there enough struggle to get captains before the season? do you guys really want 2 more romuluses as captains?

      #espel4captain

      [–]thewthewdrukQs -- that sometimes-retired old guy 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Merball League TagPro????

      [–]uhhhhmmmm 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

      only previous/current merballs as captains

      pigoon streams every game

      we ban at least 4 people a week

      who wants to join?

      [–]XelifHappy Ferret | NLTP captain 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      ooh I get to run a majors team into the ground now? sign me up!

      [–]ButtersnackSnack 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I would definitely play that

      [–]uhhhhmmmm 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Ur gonna be one of the first 4 banned

      [–]ButtersnackSnack 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Fucking finally. I've been playing Tagpro this long and haven't been banned from anything yet.

      [–]knowak04quarky. 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      If you were a captain you'd just spend all your tagcoins on papi

      [–]thewthewdrukQs -- that sometimes-retired old guy 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Thank Christ that rule amendment vote failed, whoever came up with that shit clearly has zero organizational experience.

      [–]Ballymandias// S7-8 LagProne Captain // S6 KGB 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

      It was me who submitted it.

      I had no intention of that rule getting voted in, anyone who would vote for it would be out of their mind. My intention was to point out the expectation from the CRC that the captains should be aware of the rules, submitting vetoes for where they disagree with the CRC. It makes sense, except for the fact that I HAVE NO CLUE HOW THE CRC WILL INTERPRET THE RULES.

      If I were to go through and adjust the rules, doing everything PM and others have asked, I would have to know where I disagree with them. Where I read the rules, and the only person responsible for informing them of a NLTP rejection is the rejected captain, they see it as a "suggestion." No way I could have known this ahead of time.

      My purpose wasn't to fix the system, it was to point out a serious flaw that I've pointed out time and time again. The Captains serve as a "Check" to the power of the commissioners, but because of the commissioners ruling on interpretations, they are incapable of acting out that role.

      TL;DR - It was a shitty rule, and I knew it when I submitted it. However, the problem is very, very real, and is the source of any and all drama faced by this League when it comes to the rule book.

      [–]quassuscrosky | The Wild Pings 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

      For the record I submitted a veto vote to get Legman's and Dino's sentences reduced to censures, but the veto failed.

      [–]DaaCoachBull // CB[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Oops let me add that to the post.

      [–]ButtersnackSnack 4ポイント5ポイント  (15子コメント)

      So you're saying that Clay did reject an offer and that it wasn't reported (the duty of the offering team's captain)? Why is fronj not getting punished?

      [–]dodsfall 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      tbh I think the blame should mainly be on the fronj or the CRC or whatever they call themselves oh and the guy who leaked 30smb modmail.

      If fronj never reported then nothing happened besides a conversation.

      The CRC should punish themselves cause 3 weeks and they never knew about it because it was never reported nor in the rules to report it.

      [–]Ballymandias// S7-8 LagProne Captain // S6 KGB 3ポイント4ポイント  (13子コメント)

      The commissioners interpret that rule as a "suggestion" and not actually a responsibility for Fronj in this case.

      [–]GrantWishesAnnaKendrick 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Yeah, and honestly, I think it was just a slightly ambiguous "should" that ended up making this a bit of a shit show. I'm pretty sure that should was written as a synonym for "must", but having it written as "should" allowed the CRC to write it off as a "it'd be nice if you reported call-ups" instead.

      [–]Ballymandias// S7-8 LagProne Captain // S6 KGB 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      This, this, this.

      [–]Words_Of_AdviceSolf 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

      "Glad we have recommendations on these processes than rules." LMAO

      [–]Ballymandias// S7-8 LagProne Captain // S6 KGB 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      ITS LIKE IM TAKING CRAZY PILLS

      [–]Dr_Fargo1Ajax. 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      If this is true it's even more ridiculous that Legman was punished. But what about in general, when a captain makes a callup offer to a player? Is it that captain's responsibility to find out what other captains that NLTP player has been talking to, track them down and find out if an offer was made?

      [–]Ballymandias// S7-8 LagProne Captain // S6 KGB 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Captains are supposed to go talk to the player, and see if they were offered.

      But just in case that player is misleading you, you'll have to go talk to every NLTP captain to see if they offered him.

      Even then, if both the player and captain say the player wasn't offered, you could still get banned.

      Ripperino Legman.

      [–]Dr_Fargo1Ajax. 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Ripperino Legman

      Poor guy never stood a chance.

      [–]ButtersnackSnack 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Umm

      How was Legman supposed to know??

      [–]trendygrubpirat s6/7 | merbs s8 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      that's a good fucking question

      [–]Ballymandias// S7-8 LagProne Captain // S6 KGB 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Snack, you're starting to sound like an angle shooter and a cheater. You're one small step away from DAT BAN. Stop trying to take advantage of the system!

      [–]TPStalin$CASH_MONEY$ | Stalin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      To be fair, the captains are half worthless too.

      "Stop angleshooting, you fucks" -Troball

      [–]mudderatmudrat / stk 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Very disappointed with MLTP leadership here. Not only is the rule in question far too ambiguous to be meting out punishments on this scale, there is serious doubt as to whether the rule was even violated. It looks to me that MLTP leadership is failing to recognize when they've made mistakes, and is instead doubling down on their rash decisions. The actions taken here seriously damage the league's legitimacy and integrity.

      It's not too late to fix things:

      • ClayRocks should be allowed to play

      • Legman should be reinstated and the team's record should stand

      • Dino should be reinstated (Seriously, punishing the guy who sheds light on the ridiculous behind-the-scenes politics of MLTP leadership? Dino should be leading MLTP, not removed from captaincy.)

      • Ambiguity in the rule should be corrected

      [–]bobby_gordon1TheBob18 || ex-perennial mLTP Player 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Section I - Etiquette

      (a) This is a fun game, and a fun league. This is not very serious, we are just out there to have a good time.

      More like this is a serious game, a serious league. This is not very fun, we are just out there to keep excluding people from playing.

      [–]FaithNHumanityStatusKnuckles // Lava Monsters // RGB 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I think that "rule" only applied to like, the first 4 or 5 seasons.

      [–]SoconyPengWin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I miss Season 4

      :(

      [–]ClayRocks69 16ポイント17ポイント  (26子コメント)

      Well, what's done is done now, and nobody can change it, so I'm gonna give my entire opinion on this situation.

      Something needs to be fucking done about the commissioners that run this league. Before I even got to give my side of the story, most of them had already decided that I was guilty anyway. Privatemajor in particular did a horrible job of handling this. Any attempt i, or even my teammates made to contact him were completely ignored. I pmed him on reddit and messaged him on mumble multiple times with no response. Quibble even went into the channel he was in and waited for 5 or 10 minutes and he still had no reaponse. Then when I finally did get a chance to talk to the commissioners, it was more of an interrogation than an interview. Asdf was the only one actually backing his argument up with logic and facts and listening to what I had to say, whereas the others were baically saying "fuck you, you're guilty, and we know it." They provided false accusations and statements in the leaked modmail that I saw, and that is just unacceptable. I mean come on, what the duck happened to innocent until proven guilty??? Regardless of the fact that no rule was fucking broken here, the commissioners jumped to a conclusion and didn't back off of it. Something needs to change here, or else I WILL NOT be returning to competitive tagpro next season. I've had multiple people pm me and tell me how disgusted they were with how this was being handled, and others pming me telling me that if I get kicked out, they're quitting. I hope the commissioners are happy with themselves, because I can't see why anyone else would be. This shit is the reason people quit mltp. I saw dinos post on why mltp was dying out, and thus shit right here is why. Every single season there is a major fuck up the commissioners make, and it turns more and more people away. Am I angry? Damn right I am. This entire situation occurred when someone ON OUR TEAM decided they wanted to fuck us over. Well congratulations, cause now I doubt you'll even have a team to play with you selfish bastard. I honestly used to think every body that called pm a dick was just jumping on a hate bandwagon, but now I honestly understand where that comes from.

      This is the part where normally I would say gg but given the circumstances I feel that is not fitting. Bg. Bad fucking game

      [–]Dr_Fargo1Ajax. 6ポイント7ポイント  (18子コメント)

      I agree. There's a reason Gem pulls the shit that she does, like down with private major and the fake trees. It's because people are losing faith that the leadership can handle running the league. Even disregarding this situation, I think it's time to have rotating commissioners. Elect people to run the league every 2 seasons who can adequately represent our interests. This league should be a democracy, but it is anything but that. Is there even a way for players/captains to help decide who will run the league?

      [–]jjpoole7jjpoole 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

      Even disregarding this situation, I think it's time to have rotating commissioners. Elect people to run the league every 2 seasons who can adequately represent our interests.

      We voted in 3 new CRC members (asdf, Bull, and WSP) and renewed another (Ash) prior to this season based on the opinions/beliefs they shared in a thread with all the applicants, though...

      [–]TPStalin$CASH_MONEY$ | Stalin 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

      We were given a list of eligible people by the commissioners. Revolving door much?

      [–]jjpoole7jjpoole 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      That's a fair point, but there were still 3 brand new members (a majority) voted in, so it's not exactly a revolving door.

      [–]SoconyPengWin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Bull wasn't technically new. He was voted in last mid-season

      [–]Dr_Fargo1Ajax. 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      My apologies then. This is the first season of MLTP I've really followed and was unaware. My question at the end of the last post was a legitimate question because I had no idea.

      [–]RonSpawnsonTP 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Ash isn't CRC?

      [–]jjpoole7jjpoole 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      He is. I said we voted in 3 new CRC members and renewed another. That means he was on the CRC last season, and is back this season because he got voted to return.

      [–]RonSpawnsonTP 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Gotcha, I got real confused there for a second. I think I read "removed" instead of "renewed".

      [–]kstarr12 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

      I'm down for an oversight committee/council/panel. Have people come from outside the league, that don't have any ties to the captains or teams to make independent, fair, unbiased decisions.

      [–]FaithNHumanityStatusKnuckles // Lava Monsters // RGB 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I think the rules are too shittily written for that to be a good thing. The rules would be the only source of truth for them to make oversight decisions on and for the most part even the CRC can't get some interpretations correct. Not sure how outsiders would be able to do it better.

      [–]kstarr12 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      That's true as well. Something has to be done though.

      [–]FaithNHumanityStatusKnuckles // Lava Monsters // RGB 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yea, more specific rules. If the rules are cut and dry, then you'd have complaints about rules and not comisshes. Theyre just the enforcers of the rules after all. And they'd be held accountable because they can't "interpret" the rule far from the spirit of it. I understand some things can't be specifically defined unless you want 1,000 bibles worth of rules but certain ones (this callup one being an example) can very easily be adjusted.

      [–]kstarr12 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Sorry clay :(

      There's something about giving people power...just goes to their heads. Some people like to dish out punishments to make themselves feel better I guess.

      [–]DaaCoachBull // CB[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

      I feel pretty awful all around about this situation actually. I think a lot of the CRC do, too. I derive no pleasure from this.

      [–]ClayRocks69 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

      If everybody felt so awful about it then why did they do it? Am I just missing something or are you taking out of your ass here

      [–]Trumpet15 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Clay just because they feel awful about it doesn't mean it can be ignored.

      [–]Hart_Attackcoys // Capper's Delight 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      No, he's saying that he doesn't get pleasure out of doing this. That doesn't affect the fact that he and the rules committee felt it was necessary. Doesn't mean he's happy about it. It's not one or the other.

      [–]bowtieTP 11ポイント12ポイント  (9子コメント)

      LOL Dino and Legman no longer captains? Are there any Superball winners left? APPARENTLY THERE ARE TY

      That's already 3/5 of Northeast Division that have lost their Captains this season.

      You know the purpose of a captain is to TEACH their players right?

      [–]ButtersnackSnack 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Chalksy x2, bad, Tpr

      [–]thewthewdrukQs -- that sometimes-retired old guy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It's my time to step up!

      [–]bowtieTP 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Oh shit yea. I always forget them, mb.

      [–]neyvit1Tpr 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

      [–]bowtieTP 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      lol for some reason I thought you had stepped down, sorry.

      [–]GrantWishesAnnaKendrick 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I'm basically the captain at this point anyways, so you're not wrong.

      [–]TagProFelixFeelicks 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I miss the old days where we decided drafts by minigolf and we only had to keep our eye on raven to prevent rule abuse.

      [–]GrantWishesAnnaKendrick 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The good old days, when players were drafted based on their reaction times in twitch chats.

      [–]Trumpet15 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

      This all blows my mind.

      1) I can't believe how harsh the punishment is on Legman. I understand punishing him because technically he broke a rule. However based on all the evidence I have seen, he did not do it maliciously, he was cleared by PM to make this move until someone pointed it out over two weeks later, right after BMB was past the point of being able to add free agents. The fact that someone seems to have waited this long to bring this situation to notice sickens me, as the timing suggests they did it maliciously. But the point is, as far as Legman was concerned he was cleared to make this move by PM himself, and now the change of mind on it and results is disgusting.

      2) As shitty a situation as it is for Clayrocks, I see why he should be removed from the BMB. PK you absolutely should allow him back into nltp for the rest of the season, providing he wants to play. As far as clay knew he wasn't breaking any rules, and I believe he was called up legally, as PM never told legman he couldn't add him until someone pointed this out to him TWO WEEKS later. Something like this should be caught immediately if these kinds of punishments are going to be handed out.

      3) Are we just going to ignore Fronj in this whole deal? It's my understanding that he never offered clay a formal offer and therefore didn't report anything to the commissioners. If Legman is going to be punished for not knowing he broke any rules, and Clayrocks is going to be punished for not knowing he broke any rules, why is Fronj not getting punished to a similar extent for knowingly not reporting what was later deemed an "official callup" to the CRC.

      tl:dr Je Suis Clay

      [–]Slama_BananaLegman 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Just for clarification purposes, PM never specifically cleared me to submit a callup for clay, I only approached him so that I could be alerted if he or any commissioners knew if anything was wrong with the callup. Unfortunately since none of them suspected anything was up, I was left in the dark thinking everything was peachy for 3 weeks.

      [–]neyvit1Tpr 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I feel it's only fair to point out that you had concerns about Clay's eligibility before you picked him, and purposefully chose not to raise those concerns with the commissioners.

      So this "left in the dark thinking everything was peachy" was 100% your doing and 100% your choice.

      I actually vetoed the punishment against you, but it's not right to present to the public only one side of the argument. It's not fair that fronj is getting a lot of the blame for this in the other comments. As far as I know, the messages you sent to your team haven't been made public, so people aren't getting the full story.

      [–]Slama_BananaLegman 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yeah I'm not blaming the commissioners at all for this, I accept blame for myself and understand a punishment directed towards me. I probably misworded my last reply. I discussed my thoughts on the modmail post in my lengthy comment above though.

      edit: By peachy I meant that if any callups were actually offered, I thought they would have been brought to light immediately.

      [–]Trumpet15 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I feel the reason he went to them weren't because he had concerns about calling him up, but more along the lines of no one notifying him that it wasn't allowed. Perhaps he did that in an effort to prevent this kind of thing from happening, but because he wasn't notified he thought it was clear.

      On the other hand you could be completely correct about me really only knowing one side of the story.

      [–]BilldaCat10 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Note to NLTP players and myself for next season if I end up there: don't respond to any callup offers until you have one you like. Don't say no, just say "I don't know". Get the offer you want, and its all legal because you technically never refused an offer.

      [–]SuperSans 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      And then people wonder why there aren't enough high-quality captains each season. We have fucking brilliant people here, there is a better way of doing this shit. There's a better solution to endless spammy modmail chains, there's better ways to handling punishments, all of it. That's to everyone, but mostly at the people that have taken up the responsibility to host this league.

      We can come up with the greatest solutions to problems, people have proposed them, but yet it all just dies in comment threads. To Bull specifically, the auction draft system that you and the rest of the team built is excellent, and the whole community appreciates it. We need more of that, not directly from you guys, but to be approved. There are better ways to do things. We need to implement them and make them happen, and MLTP hasn't done anything but issue punishments and be an eye-sore of drama in the community.

      [–]superdiglett100superdiglett [A*] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I would like to voice my opinion on this matter, as it somewhat incorporates me. First thing is the lack of punishment for Fronj. Whatever his intentions were or whatever the legitimacy of the “callup” was, he did not follow the rule that is covered by Article III, Section IV, rule f(2). People have argued over the wording of the rule, because of the term “should.” Rules are not meant to be suggestions, as the RCR has twisted to make it sound. And the fact that some captains have not followed this rule puts them at as much fault as the people who take this rule to be so lenient. It is a rule that is meant to ease the burdens of the people involved in the call ups, as well as to prevent drama like this. This is why I personally believe that Fronj deserves a bigger punishment. He did not follow a rule, and therefore deserves more than just a warning.

      As for the other punishments given out to both Legman and 30S, I believe Legman deserves his punishment, because he chose to keep this potentially destructive information from the commissioners. He admitted his wrong doing, and accepted his punishment, so for that, I commend him.

      One thing that I would like to talk about is the punishment given out to ClayRocks. As my ex-player, and now my co-captain, I want to defend him and his actions. He feels wronged by this whole situation, and because of this, it has turned him off from competitive tagpro. This is very unfortunate, as every player who leaves because of an incident like this leaves with bad blood, which tarnishes the reputation of this game. I understand the punishment of kicking him out of minors. The RCR has the opportunity to keep even one person from leaving tagpro. I know my word means barely anything to a lot of people, but, I vote to let Clay back into NLTP. I understand that this is not the decision of anyone in MLTP, but I want to voice my opinion to the public. This decision is not for my NLTP team, but rather for Clay. This is something that I intend to bring up when the issue arrives in the NLTP captaincy subreddit.

      Edit: I posted this without checking, and he is able to come back to nltp. Thank you, PK.

      In conclusion, there are many things that can be learned from this incident. The legitimacy of a “callup” or “offer,” how much punishment should be given out and to whom, the wording of rules, and the processes that happen after a rule is called into question. I really hope I don’t offend anyone with my opinions, especially Fronj and the MLTP commissioners, I only mean it as a way to get my opinions out and to possibly help anyone to amend these rules.

      [–]trendygrubpirat s6/7 | merbs s8 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

      #FreeClayRocks

      [–]ButtersnackSnack 1ポイント2ポイント  (17子コメント)

      /u/bashar_al_assad, thoughts on what to do about Clay? I suggest letting him go back to NLTP in exchange for his team's 100 point bonus, if they still have it

      [–]ClayRocks69 7ポイント8ポイント  (15子コメント)

      I honestly don't even know if I want to. This whole thing has made me sick and turned me away from competitive tagpro.

      [–]ButtersnackSnack 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yeah that's understandable. I just remember you mentioned in another thread you might be willing to return to your old team

      [–]bashar_al_assadP K Subball || NLTP Commissioner 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      that's the plan.

      [–]quassuscrosky | The Wild Pings 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

      You called it CRC, then RCC, then CCR, lol... choose one

      [–]DaaCoachBull // CB[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

      hee hee that's been a silly argument we've had within ourselves. I wanted everyones opinion to be respected. Good catch.

      [–]RonSpawnsonTP 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

      But CCR doesn't make sense lol.

      Comissioners, and Committees of Rules?

      [–]DaaCoachBull // CB[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Precisely. That one is my favorite.

      [–]bowtieTP 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

      "But that doesn't make sense lol"

      Ah the CRC motto.

      [–]bowtieTP 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      They can't be CCR. CCR rocks.

      [–]donuts42 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I've been on vacation how can I miss out on drama noooooo.

      [–]FertilePositionhola 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I think it's ridiculous that the rules aren't spelled out better in competitive TagPro. This leads to bad situations where if there are ambiguities a Rules Committee member can make a decision on the spot that can be a judgement call when there should be no judgement calls.

      There was a situation earlier this season where the opposing team was expecting to play a player in minors who was ineligible (I believe they were unaware he was ineligible but still..) and we called them out on it. When it was all said and done, both teams agreed to allow an ineligible player to play on each side because a Rules Committee member was on the other team and 0K'd it.

      This type of thing happens way too often in MLTP.

      [–]3HunnaBruhBall God 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      This is all so stupid. lol

      [–]CnelsXile | Cosinners | Origin 3ポイント4ポイント  (10子コメント)

      can i be captain

      [–]ko890317konarf 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

      only if u draft me

      [–]CnelsXile | Cosinners | Origin 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

      ill trade the rest of my team for u, ballrog and pbs

      [–]ko890317konarf 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      what about gman??!!

      [–]SoconyPengWin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      he ded thanks to moderators

      [–]DaEvil1 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      pls

      [–]CnelsXile | Cosinners | Origin 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      you weren't on s4 cosigners n00b

      [–]DaEvil1 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I was on S5 EG though... wait...

      [–]FaithNHumanityStatusKnuckles // Lava Monsters // RGB 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Only interview question: How many caps do you have this season?

      [–]CnelsXile | Cosinners | Origin 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      less than swerve but I'm definitely better than him

      [–]FaithNHumanityStatusKnuckles // Lava Monsters // RGB 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      MORE THAN SWERVE YOU SAY!? Censure!!!

      [–]ClayRocks69 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

      I want to know something about the captains vote: were the captains that would have benefited from me being kicked out of the league allowed to vote? Because that's a bit ridiculous if so.

      [–]RonSpawnsonTP 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

      It would be a bit ridiculous if they didn't. You want people who are impacted by the decisions to be the ones voting in the decisions. That the whole point of the captain's veto: to ensure the interests of the captains and those captain's players are represented.

      [–]kstarr12 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

      But is it fair for a jury to be the victim? No. Those votes shouldn't count.

      [–]TPStalin$CASH_MONEY$ | Stalin 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Fun fact: Ballymandias is the only captain (that I'm sure of) who benefited that voted to not kick Clayrocks

      [–]Slama_BananaLegman 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      honeybear

      [–]TPStalin$CASH_MONEY$ | Stalin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I meant in terms of people we've already played, my bad about the wording

      [–]eatfrenchfriesHarkMollis 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Lol poor clayrocks he just wanted to play

      [–]InABallOfGlory 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I don't have any sort of affiliation with anyone here but I just have two honest questions. First, all of these leagues are rather well run, why is there no sort of impartial voting? Not quite the same as a real judicial system, but similar. Second, wouldn't it make sense to have a formal system for call ups? I'm not quite sure how this would work but I'll edit if I think of anything. Maybe a list of players eligible to be called up, viewable by the community, but only able to be edited by commissioners. To another problem maybe limit call ups to a certain number per season/per week? So that loophole becomes null (loophole in which captains make all NLTP players ineligible by giving offers whether the players wish to come up or not). Was just curious. Thanks guys! -Fury

      [–]BeastMode3333A^ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Idk how clay shouldn't deserve to get barred from mltp this season. I think it's more than obvious that he turned down his original offer.

      The legman is a little harsh though. Maybe give some of that to fronj?