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DiscussionThe ostracising of Slytherin (self.harrypotter)

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[–]AWookieeFromKashyyyk 0ポイント1ポイント  (22子コメント)

surely there would have been at least a few students during Harry's time who possessed the traits of Slytherin such as ambition and a "thirst to prove themselves" who were not necessarily unpleasant people (just look at Merlin, or to a lesser extent Snape/Slughorn). Why then is there no reference to a "decent" Slytherin during Harry's tenure at Hogwarts?

Firstly both Snape and Slughorn were awfuly unpleasant people and we know nothing about Merlin. That being said, if you have a community of people that is filled with racist bigots half of who are more than happy to murder their opposition watched over by someone who (for all intensive purposes) agrees with this you're probably not going to turn out great.

This would be excusable had the novels been viewed entirely from Harry's POV, but this is not the case.

It is for like 98% of the book and the only time it isn't when Slytherins are mentioned you're surrounded by the primarily Slytherin Death Eaters.

most notably in the final book where they are denied the chance to partake in the Battle of Hogwarts.

I 100% agree with this decision. Even if only 30/40/50% of Slytherins support Voldemort that's way, way to many people to have around that could turn on you and like it or not but Slytherins in the book are very pro-Voldemort from what we know.

Also a good amount have Death Eater family. For example, out of the 5 guys in Harry's year, 3 are confirmed Death Eaters themselves by Book 7, one probably is and has a Death Eater father if nothing else and the remaining one is the son of a serial killer. Those aren't great odds to have around in a fight against Death Eaters.

Is it really just a case of all the Slytherins in the school at that time being terrible people, or do you feel that they were unfairly treated?

Yes.

[–]madchad90 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

I would not agree with the idea of Slughorn being "awfully unpleasant", the man like to get what he could out of relationships sure, but he also worked hard to further the careers and create connections for his students. Perhaps his reasons for this were a bit selfish, after all he was a Slytherin, but you cant deny he was a good teacher and genuinely wanted his students to succeed.

[–]AWookieeFromKashyyyk 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

I dunno I think anyone who tries to manipulate children like that isn't pleasant. Just look at how he treats Ron as an example of how interested he will be if you aren't beneficial to him.

[–]DeeMI5I0Slytherin Beater 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

He isn't interested in Ron, but is there a teacher who is? Not to be blunt, but you blame Slughorn - what about the rest? Flitwik toppled over at hearing Harry's name, and paid extra attention to Hermione for her apptitiude but never gave a hoot about Ron.

Slughorn is essentially inviting students to be a part of a network of valuable connections that will help each and every one of them. Someone wants to play Quidditch? They could just write Gwenogg Jones and mention that they were also part of the Slug Club and I'm sure she would help them out.

In exchange for all this help (and it did take work, I'm sure, to root out those who would be assets and those who wouldn't to the others) Slughorn is now friends (and I mean legitimately friends) with people who can help him out in exchange later on. He formed genuine bonds with students and not just because he wanted things from them later, but also because he enjoyed spending his time with the most intelligent, daring, creative, talented, athletic people out there.

[–]AWookieeFromKashyyyk 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He isn't interested in Ron, but is there a teacher who is?

Hagrid probably but that's not the point. There are no other teachers holding meetings for the special students or who give treats and favours to the people they think will do well in life. His treatment of Ron stands out by how much effort he puts in to his other students.

Slughorn is now friends (and I mean legitimately friends) with people who can help him out in exchange later on. He formed genuine bonds with students and not just because he wanted things from them later, but also because he enjoyed spending his time with the most intelligent, daring, creative, talented, athletic people out there.

I have no idea where you're getting that from because when he's showing Harry his pictures of old Slug Club members he pretty clearly misses the favours they did for him and the gifts they sent, the attention basically, rather than their company.

[–]madchad90 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

you could just chalk that up to slytherin ambition, but its not like had any malicious tendencies towards anyone.

[–]AWookieeFromKashyyyk 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Depends on your definition of malicious.

[–]DeeMI5I0Slytherin Beater -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Were any single one of the Slug Club members harmed by Slughorn in any way shape or form? Was anything they were doing - from sending him gifts to getting him free tickets - not done of their own free will and thus indicative of the appreciation they felt for their previous mentor?

What's your definition of malicious?

[–]AWookieeFromKashyyyk 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Neglecting other students (children) and elevating others above the rest because of a belief that they are somehow better, often based on their family connections in order to better oneself is malicious in my book.

[–]DeeMI5I0Slytherin Beater -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

So the issue is that you feel he was harming the self-esteem of the students he didn't ask to be part of his club? That's literally life, in the magical world and out. You didn't make the cut for the team? That sucks, but you weren't as good as the others. You didn't make valedictorian? The person who did was a bit better at schoolwork. You didn't make the Slug Club? Those who did were more talented or had better connections.

These teenagers were walking around with weapons, about to go to war, and trapped in public images of their reputation, house, and blood. This is probably doing them a favor, tbh, because in a year whether you're considered smart, well-connected, or talented, etc. or not will get you killed, not accepted or denied into a little school club.

[–]AWookieeFromKashyyyk 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So the issue is that you feel he was harming the self-esteem of the students he didn't ask to be part of his club?

For his own benefit. It's not the worst thing in the world but it certainly doesn't make him a pleasant man to be treating children like that.

No offence but I think you need to take a step back, you're getting far too worked up because i've stated a dislike of a fictional character.

[–]DeeMI5I0Slytherin Beater -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

for all intensive purposes

for all intents and purposes

watched over by someone who agrees with [racist, murderous, bigots]

Severus Snape did not agree with blood prejudice (which is, by the way, not racism - I hate how people mark everything as racism). In fact he disagreed with the Death Eaters so much that he risked life and limb constantly to garner information from their leader. Excuse him if he had to encourage the mini-Death Eaters sometimes in order to not blow his cover and die.

[–]AWookieeFromKashyyyk 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Excuse him if he had to encourage the mini-Death Eaters sometimes in order to not blow his cover and die.

That was my point. He went along with it. For almost 20 years. Encouraging people to join/support/agree with Voldemort when he returned. Sure he didn't agree with it but honestly there probably wouldn't be much different even if he had.

[–]DeeMI5I0Slytherin Beater -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

He was forced to in order to spy, and that brought such vital information (and saved many student's lives in DH) that it was obviously worth it.

[–]AWookieeFromKashyyyk 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Okay. How does that change what happened? He still created that environment. It still exists. Those children are still Death Eater supporters. Him having done good doesn't erase that effect.

[–]DeeMI5I0Slytherin Beater -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

I am telling you that in order to get this good thing (let's call it a +500) for the side of good, he had to do this bad thing (let's call it a -10, as all those kids were forced to be Death Eaters regardless).

Now, he could've done neither of those things, but it's clearly good that he made the choice he did. You can't fault him for this tiny bad thing when he did it at the behest of the side of good and in order to gain them a huge advantage.

[–]AWookieeFromKashyyyk 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't care about any of that. I wasn't making a statement about Snape or his actions validity. All I said was he created a pro-Death Eater environment leading to the kids there becoming radicalised and pro-Voldemort. Which you agree he did. I don't know why you keep defending those actions because I nor anyone else have criticised them, I just said they happened.

[–]DeeMI5I0Slytherin Beater -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes, but you're using that to further your argument of Snape = Slytherin = Bad.

[–]capitolprostituteSlytherin Prefect -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Hi, you seem to be forgetting that this is a children's book. Please keep that in mind when calling characters in novels names and making bold accusations.

Also, since you are so passionate about your point I want to warn you that people will most likely try to engage you in discussion, please be sure to keep this discussion civil and avoid name calling and remember that this sub is trying to promote a positive and open environment for people of all ages.

Have fun :]

[–]AWookieeFromKashyyyk 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

This is an adult website and I am speaking as one regardless of the subject matter. If I want to call someone a bigot I will.

You aren't a mod btw, i've no idea why you bothered with that message particularly when no drama has occurred.

[–]capitolprostituteSlytherin Prefect -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

I am worried about you and some of the anger your post might cause, that is why I commented. If you would like me to delete that post I can. It has nothing to do with being a mod, that is not how this sub is run. I am sorry if I offended you.

[–]AWookieeFromKashyyyk 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is very, very odd to see a comment like that so pre-emptively because I have insulted a fictional character is all.