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Reddit auto-shadow banningAdmin response in comments (youtube.com)

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[–]blendt3 88ポイント89ポイント  (80子コメント)

No response still

[–]teapot112 26ポイント27ポイント  (75子コメント)

I am curious. Can you tell what you were doing with your regular account that you think is the reason for SB?

From what I gather, IP shadowbans are only for those who are serious offenders.

[–]Derelyk 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

According to the ceo/whoever took just took over, Shadowbans are never supposed to occur against users, only bots.

https://i.imgur.com/WS8T9Gc.png

[–]Drunken_Economist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

OP was using 999 bot accounts to upvote his own posts, so he got banned. He knows about it too

[–]blendt3 51ポイント52ポイント  (63子コメント)

I wish I knew. I can't even log into my main account anymore to look over my posts. Others have said that they were shadowbanned because the admins thought they were brigading. I just wish they would respond haha

[–]painahimah 52ポイント53ポイント  (42子コメント)

Yep. Downvoted a post I'd gotten to through /r/subredditdrama on /r/all on mobile, discovered I was shadowbanned over a week later. Had to be told what I did (brigading), I was clueless.

[–]FUSSY_PUCKER 89ポイント90ポイント  (30子コメント)

The brigading bans are bullshit. You're using their site as it was designed, and you get punished for it. If you want to disallow voting from other subreddit links, disallow votes coming from internal referrers.

Edit: internal referrers from *reddit.com/r/*/comments/* for example.

[–]Infamously_Unknown 130ポイント131ポイント  (27子コメント)

Not only you're using the site as designed, the site doesn't even inform you it's punishable.

And I'm not talking about the nature of shadowban, I'm talking about brigading itself. This rule is completely unwritten. It's not in site rules, it's not in user agreement, it's not even in the goddamn reddiquette. There's no clear official source where even an unusually diligent new user could find out this is forbidden, yet you can get the worst punishment for it there is. It's ridiculous.

[–]IMainlyLurk 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

To pick nits, brigading is covered in the FAQ, just under a different name.

What constitutes vote cheating and vote manipulation?

Besides spam, the other big no-no is to try to manipulate voting by any means: manual, mechanical, or otherwise. We're not going to post an exhaustive list of forbidden tactics (lest we give people ideas), but some major ones are:
[...]

  • Don't ask other users to vote on certain posts, either on reddit itself or anywhere else (through Twitter, Facebook, IM programs, IRC, etc.)
  • Don't be part of a "voting clique" or "vote ring"

[...] A "vote ring" is a group of people who agree to vote on certain things together, either a specific submission, a user, a domain, or anything like that. [...]

Cheating or attempting to manipulate voting will result in your account being banned. Don't do it.

I do think the site should make it MUCH clearer that sort of behavior isn't allowed, the line is awfully fine.

[–]Infamously_Unknown 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Nice find.

I didn't think of looking for rules in FAQ when there are already several other pages more likely to contain this. I'd understand if FAQ had something like a quick simplified overview of some extensive ruleset written elsewhere, but this? What a mess.

[–]IMainlyLurk 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That FAQ article is linked from the site rules, the key link is vote manipulation.

I understand why the rule exists. You don't want spammers doing spammy things, and you don't want one random sub going into another and shitting all over it. But there are plenty of organic ways for one comment to link to another where users SHOULD be able to vote on the targeted comment, and the rules as-is make it unclear when the hammer is going to come down.

If someone in a thread links to a comment in that same thread for any reason (source, clarification, correction, etc) could that be considered vote manipulation?
If someone on sub 1 points out a useful comment on sub 2, are users not allowed to vote on it?
If someone points to a WaPo article where they use that reddit-embedding function and users vote on the resulting comment, is that vote manipulation?

Etc, etc, etc.

[–]FUSSY_PUCKER 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

And I'm still not clear whether I can comment on a linked thread? Is that also brigading? Sure it's against SRD rules, but those are their rules (pissing in the popcorn). Is using the search and commenting on a linked search result, brigading? Can I vote on search result links?

[–]hanging_towel 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

SRD?

[–]Random_Fandom 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is using the search and commenting on a linked search result, brigading?

This is a little tricky.

When the admins investigate Sub A for brigading, they look at the history and actions of the users in question.

If you visit a post in Sub A, then search threads directly related to the topic, your history will show the chain of events: Visit Sub A--> Search [Topic X]--> Visit [Sub B] — and whatever you do afterwards.

The tricky part is that an admin could interpret your search as an attempt circumvent the appearance of brigading; and whether or not you did will be up to his/her discretion.

[–]Savvaloy 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Commenting is fine. You just can't vote.

[–]doomngloom80 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

That really doesn't make sense. A comment can impact the way voting goes and set the whole tone of the post. A vote is just a vote.

I'd be screwed, I accidentally vote all the time scrolling on mobile. I try to only downvote if it's an unrelated comment but I find downvotes fairly often of posts I haven't even read because I hit it while scrolling through.

[–]You_Just_Saw_A_Ghost 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Is this RES only? the problem is people should link like this: http://np.reddit.com/r/whateverthefuck (np=non-participation)

[–]iSamurai 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

NP is a shitty CSS hack that is unreliable.

[–]TranslatedComment 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is also a voluntary CSS option enabled on a per sub reddit basis and nothing to do with the admins.

It was a community effort to limit outside influence.

[–]Infamously_Unknown 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, the pop-up is just RES. The np hack isn't really integrated into reddit by admins in any way. That's just the community trying to minimize the damages of this unwritten rule, although it's still not entirely clear how much the admins actually give a damn about np.

[–]Noltonn 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

It does, though, doesn't it? That's what NP links are for, they tell you you can't participate in a popup. Unless you're using Alien Blue, I've heard.

[–]cubebreak 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Any popup you see is CSS, RES or an app. NP links are a community regulated thing and not part of the site inherently.

[–]Noltonn 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Huh, alright, didn't know that.

[–]GAMEchief -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

the site doesn't even inform you it's punishable

It's literally in the rules that you agree to when you sign up. There are 5 rules. "tl;dr" is not a valid excuse. The second link in the rules that you agreed to when registering.

[–]Infamously_Unknown 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know that brigading is considered as "vote manipulation", for the same reason you do - because I've been here for a few years.

But when I joined the site, it certainly didn't cross my mind that if I follow a link to a different part of the site and then participate as usual, I'm "manipulating votes" or however you'd phrase it.

[–]SkorpioSound 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes, but why is voting on an old post "vote manipulation"? How old can a post be before you're not allowed to vote on it any more without risking being shadowbanned? It mentions that you're not allowed to form voting rings or encourage people to vote a certain way, but if someone links a year-old comment, why can I not vote on that? Especially if it's useful - surely the person deserves that karma?

If reddit are going to ban people simply for voting on old posts, they need to update the rules to indicate that it's illegal, because currently there's nothing.

[–]GAMEchief 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It has nothing to do with the age of the post. It has to do with vote brigading, I.e. if you don't like a comment in Subreddit A, you aren't allowed to post it to Subreddit B to get them to vote it down.

[–]traugdor -3ポイント-2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Click this link: https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/3euqwf/reddit_autoshadow_banning/

It's a NP link. Which means No Participation. If you do, you are breaking the rules. Tough, but you can deal with it. You're on the internet without your parents' permission afterall.

[–]Infamously_Unknown 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

I really can't tell if you're serious or facetious, because I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to participate in that particular link however I please. As a matter of fact, I'm doing that right now. Please don't call my parents.

[–]traugdor 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Well I'm Serious. if you click on a NP link, with RES, they tell you that participation will get you banned.

[–]Infamously_Unknown 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Exactly. If you add np. before a link, a third-party addon that admins have nothing to do with will tell you your participation will get you banned, even if it's a complete nonsense like in the case of the link you posted here.

I'm pretty sure more can be done here.

[–]delta_wardog 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

But that would mean they would have to actually improve the website tools... so, not gonna happen.

[–]bananinhao 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can't browse more than one website or subreddit Rule #1664:3

[–]unearthk 32ポイント33ポイント  (7子コメント)

Same thing with my shadowban but a quick post to /r/shadowbanned and a couple Pms got it resolved. The new CFO said his intention is to eliminate shadowbanning of any and all humans.

[–]Max_Trollbot_ 38ポイント39ポイント  (2子コメント)

Humans only, huh?

Fuck.

[–]VoatWasDown 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

nitpick: it was the new CEO that said this. comment in question don't vote on it, you might get banhammered

[–]IAMA_BAD_MAN_AMA 24ポイント25ポイント  (1子コメント)

Awww, and you believed him...how wonderfully naive!

[–]AustinAtSt 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

From his perspective it does make sense. Why would a company want to make something like shadowbanning public news? By banning users, it's brought the system to the public eye.

For comparison, this would be similar to if an employer to a gym doesn't hire fat people. He can't say it looks bad for the business, but nobody but the employer knows the exact reason, and the apllicants keep applying to other gyms.

On top of that, because of this post, now they have to do another QA to not piss off reddit.... again.

[–]Defengar 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same happened to me as well. Luckily I did get it sorted out within a couple weeks.

[–]dirtymoney 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

same thing happened to me. I think you can get around the "brigading" accusation by not directly following a posted link. But by going to that subreddit and finding the submission in the post list.

When i first talked to admin about it and asked them... I got no answer so I assume I was right. Note: I was asking so that I didnt get accidentally shadowbanned again. So, just to be careful (so you arent accidentally thrown in with the rest of the people who get shadowbanned for brigading), dont follow the direct link.

I post this for those who get caught up in a massive shadowbanning (like I did once) because they didnt know what they did was technically wrong. Because heaven forbid you follow a posted link to another subreddit and downvote or upvote a few comments because you will be cast down with the actual malicious brigaders by mods/admins who dont really check and see if you are one.

[–]painahimah 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I honestly don't pay much attention, I was just clicking links and reading. I'll sometimes have hours between initially entering a thread and reading the comments since I set my phone down, so I just skip all /r/bestof and /r/subredditdrama links just in case.

[–]hinckley 12ポイント13ポイント  (6子コメント)

I can't even log into my main account anymore to look over my posts

That's not a shadow-ban then. A shadow-ban is where you can interact with the site normally from your perspective but nobody else can see what you do.

[–]Trekky0623 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

A shadow ban is what's happening now, though, in the video, since his user page still comes up as long as he's logged in.

[–]dirtymoney 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

when it happened to me... my submission posts would not show up to anyone, but my comment posts did.

This was in r/lockpicking.

For a while I just stopped making submissions because the mods of r/lockpicking didnt respond to my PMs. It took a mod from another subreddit to notice my comment about not being able to make submissions anymore (not a PM... a comment) in r/lockpicking to fix it.

[–]hinckley 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

AFAIK shadow-bans are an exclusively site-wide admin-only power. A subreddit moderator wouldn't be able to fix that. What you're talking about sounds like a moderator blocked you from submitting posts to their sub (I assume they can do that without also blocking comments), possibly accidentally, and for whatever reason was ignoring your PMs.

[–]dirtymoney 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

well, my ban got removed somehow when another non-r/lockpicking mod saw my comment and contacted me. So... ?

[–]iateone2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

When someone is shadowbanned they still show up as a mod. DId you guys remove blendt's original moderator status?

[–]DSTakumiDerp 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sub mods can approve posts by shadow banned users.

[–]RiSkysc2 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yup, got shadowbanned for brigading. The rule doesn't even make sense, if i'm linked the reddit, i can't form my own opinion and decide to downvote / upvote it? It's ridiculous.

[–]GallantChaos 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

It took me a long time to learn what brigading is. Take, for example /r/PicklesSuck crosslink to /r/pickles. The users in /r/picklessuck then heavily downvote that post in /r/pickles regardless of the content, because they hate pickles. The mods ban users to prevent war between communities.

I am totally neutral on pickels.

[–]RiSkysc2 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hilarious example. But that wasn't even what i did :/

Had to message like 10 different mods just to get rid of my shadowban.

[–]im_always_fapping 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I fucking love pickles. The only thing I love more is a pickle surprise.

[–]TURBOSLUT420 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is because sometimes people get their feelings hurt when people come and downvote them.

Yes, that is really why.

[–]mcnewbie 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

that's what happened to me. i voted on a post that was linked to from another subreddit. there wasn't even any notification telling me i was shadowbanned, it took me a week to figure it out. it took a further month to clear up because my direct messages to various admins were consistently ignored.

edit: the handful of responses i got from admins made much mention of how reddit is supposed to be organic and how "brigading" (that is, participating in a post that was linked to from another subreddit) is inorganic.

make of that nebulous description what you will.

[–]Noltonn -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Admins have several times mentioned a normal user should not be shadowbanned. It should only be used as a way to mess with spambots.

[–]blendt3 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can you tell them that for me?

[–]PathOfDesire 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was shadowbanned on my old account too. My guess is that I would follow links to other parts of reddit and then participate in the conversations or upvote/downvote comments and links. . /r/bestof for example.

[–]counters14 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (3子コメント)

You probably voted on a thread linked from one post to another with an np prefix. reddit actually tracks that and can use automated bots to shadowban users for it.

Even if it wasn't intentional. Even if you just didn't notice that it was an np link. Even if you knew it was an np link, switched tabs and forgot then voted on something.

I think there is some sort of algorithm that determines what defines brigading. I don't think you get banned for one single occurrence of misplaced votes. But yeah, they do keep track of that stuff.

[–]Davidisontherun 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

Which is the rule that says you can't post or vote in np links?

[–]counters14 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not the vote police, I can neither justify nor validate the methods they use to combat brigading. I can only say that this is part of what they do at least.

[–]iSamurai 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I've gotten shadowbanned twice on this account for unknowingly voting in a linked thread. The first time I responded to the admins quoting the rules of reddit and whatnot asking for clarification because it really isn't written anywhere that it is a bannable offense. Of course they avoided the topic but eventually reinstated my account.

[–]Parasymphatetic 10ポイント11ポイント  (6子コメント)

I got shadowbanned because i posted in a sub i was banned in. The rules didn't explicitly state that on first glance but i was okay with it.

I contacted the admins and acknowledged my fault and told them i wouldn't do that again.
I wrote for 2 weeks with the admins before someone told me whether or not i will ever be unbanned....

[–]DeathHaze420 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

well? Were you?

[–]Parasymphatetic 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah, after 2 weeks asking for the question if i ever will be unbanned they said yeah i will but dodged the question as to when for another week and then i was finally unbanned. Without a notice of course.

[–]DeathHaze420 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wtf. That's weird.

[–]Parasymphatetic 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, i thought so. On the other hand the admins probably have to deal with loads of people who mostly behave like assholes on a daily basis, so who am i to judge.

[–]DeathHaze420 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm one of those assholes lol. Well, for the most part I take my banning in strides (roosterteeth, hate the community, glad I'm banned), but if i feel it was unjust......(chinchillas, called a mod the worst mod ever, banned 24 hours later for "inticing an argument" even though I hadn't posted since then) I burn every bridge I see to the motherfucking ground.

[–]purple_monkey58 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was shadowbanned for the sane thing. Where in the rules does it say you can't comment on a sub you've been banned from. I liked but couldn't find it

[–]jmerridew124 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

IP shadowbans are only for bots. Using it on people is absolute horseshit.

[–]TheKinglyGuy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He used alts to upvote his posts in /r/me_irl a admin even posted pics above showing him asking and being told multiple times why. Then showed a pic of him being a asshole.

[–]picflute 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Did you try sometime in the last two weeks? It takes a while but a response does come

[–]blendt3 19ポイント20ポイント  (2子コメント)

Week and a half so far so I guess I have a few days haha.

[–]Capinboredface 44ポイント45ポイント  (1子コメント)

Did you try turning it off and back on again?