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Immigration Megathread - Part IMegathread (self.europe)

European UnionModeratorsOfEurope が 投稿 - stickied post

Announcement

This is a megathread for all immigration related submissions. If you have any links to interesting reporting, opinion pieces or data about any type of immigration, put it in a comment in this thread and a mod will sweep through periodically to add it to the OP for extra attention. Any submissions about immigration posted to the rest of the sub will be removed and directed here. This thread will be renewed every day or two, or whenever it reached approximately 500 comments (which is why we are using the /u/ModeratorsOfEurope account; so different mods can log in at different times and edit the OP).

Why is this happening?

Over the past few months immigration submissions have become more and more common. So common, in fact, that they are drowning out any other form of original discussion or links to other interesting events in Europe. With that in mind, in the same vein as the Grisis threads from a few weeks ago, and the UK and Greek election threads of this year, we are providing a focus point for all immigration discussion and links. We hope that this will both allow a much more comprehensive discussion of immigration, rather than 10 individual, isolated discussions covering the same topic everyday.

You may interpret this however you like, and you can discuss whether making this megathread is a good idea, but all we ask is that you keep it within this thread.

Here's the submissions so far

Finnish MP calls for fight against "nightmare of multiculturalism", no comment from party leadership and some discussion about this specific link

Refugees in Sweden to get free bus passes and some discussion about this specific link

Afghan man killed, two wounded as migrants clash near border

Romanian police, partners identify nearly 200 wanted individuals in Schengen Information System

Migrant Found Dead on Channel Tunnel Train Roof

'Germany: this is my country now': Syrian refugee starts a new life

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[–]SerbiabureX [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There have been clashes near the border where I live. The biggest issue I have with this kind of immigration is that there is no way to identify the people who are crossing the border - they could be anybody, a student or a murderer.

Anyways, the migrants are coming from various African countries, Algeria, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan (!?), Iraq, etc. This is making me nervous. I can understand people fleeing Syria, but what about the rest (especially Pakistan)? It appears there are widespread rumors going around these regions that Europe is a safe haven for them. I don't like the sound of this.

Also, why don't the big oil-rich countries of the middle east help their neighbors? Even Bernie Sanders said the US should make rich middle eastern countries step up and do something about wars in the middle east, instead of western nations constantly having to clean up all that mess...

[–]Benthetraveler [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

The fact that the voting brigade is angry means this is a very good measure. Obviously it would be nice if this wasn't needed but we all know somebody does have an agenda to push.

[–]European UnionTheBeerCannon [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

This thread has been shared on most of the relevant right wing subreddits. The brigade is in full effect.

[–]Benthetraveler [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The irony is that so many people want to pretend it isn't happening while they aren't exactly secret about it.

Protip: If you brigade a thread super hard and downvote people who call you out all you do is prove them, and in this case the mods as well, right.

[–]Arudas [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Not sure if I should see this megathread as decisive or reluctant action.

Probably will start hearing stories about posts getting deleted for being too salacious.

Immigrants hit girl for not giving number in France: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=737_1343775329

German girls should "dress modestly because of refugees" http://www.rt.com/news/270214-bavaria-muslim-school-clothes/

Denmark running anti-migrants ads: http://www.thelocal.dk/20150724/denmark-anti-refugee-advertisements-asylum

This is sort of related, the argument for immigration is birth rates so why not look at what a country has done to increase its birth rates? http://takimag.com/article/israels_fertility_policy_bears_fruit_steve_sailer/#axzz3h3gwNRXO

[–]LithuaniaMrMykse [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Holy fuck that first video got my blood boiling what a fucking assholes people like that should be deported the same fucking second.

[–]Opressed heterosexual conservative Russian minorityParavin [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

So, if this is about immigrants, can I put up a job advert?

Cozy Latvian man looking for a job in Finland from August till May. I can provide IT usability testing and heuristics analysis skills, as well as acting and event leading experience, and stuff. I will also clean toilets and sweep your garden, clean the snow from your driveway and walkways.

Please, Finns, give me a JERB!

[–]Bestonia_-_-__-_-__-_-__-_-_ [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Come to Estonia instead, maybe you can find something here.

[–]Opressed heterosexual conservative Russian minorityParavin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Can't - going to study in Finland, need something part time.

[–]Prince-Bishopric of Eastern Norwaylynxlynxlynx- [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I love this thread.

[–]GreeceIM_A_PIG [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Seriously? Leftists need to get their stuff together, Cencorship and political correctness are getting ridiculous in this sub. What a shame.

[–]Finlanddidijustobama [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

I think a "russia hate" megathread is called for then too, maybe we can even get a "Greek hate" one going too.

*Yes Of course this is a sarcastic comment

[–]JB_UK [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

We did actually have a lot of megathreads over the Russia-Ukraine conflict and the Greek financial crisis.

[–]European Unionacolytee [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Not permanently. I don't know of any other subreddit that has implemented something like this.

[–]JB_UK [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

We've had megathreads that have gone on, and been refreshed over the course of weeks. Where have you got the impression this megathread is permanent? I imagine we'll just see how things go, as we have done in the past.

And do other subreddits do megathreads at all? I've seen it mostly here. I don't moderate anywhere else. It really comes down to what's appropriate for each individual forum.

[–]European Unionacolytee [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Most subreddits about current afairs have megathreads of some form, reserved for major events. /r/syriancivilwar has one about Turkey's attack on ISIS and PKK right now, for example. I've never seen anyone remove a broad topic from the frontpage for good, like this. If some users find that certain topics are dominating too much, filters is the solution.

[–]ScotlandRIPGoodUsernames [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Oy vey they're rounding us up into ghettoes!

Soon we'll all be wearing little yellow "I" patches for talking about immigration!

Before long we'll all be turned into soap and lampshades!

[–]AuntieJoJo [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Hmmm...

See if anti-immigration sentiments are posted freely, uncensored, and can be up/down-voted I think the ridiculous posts will be downvoted, and that's the end of the story.

When anti-immigration sentiment needs to be contained I think "that's strange. Someone wants me to think in a certain way, wonder why? It wouldn't be because anti-immigration individuals are getting something right, is it?".

In other words, all forms of containment make me distrustful of those doing the containment. And it makes me think that the opinions being contained must be on to something.

So all this did is that I now think anti-immigrant posters are on to something. They must be, if there is a need to contain them beyond downvotes. And apparently, there is a need to do so.

I mean I get it: there are PC-opinions and non-PC opinions. Trying to contain the non-PC opinions is seldom the way to go. We need to talk about immigration: the good, the bad, and the ugly. Otherwise we are just shifting into a hush-hush society, where you are not allowed to talk about problems.

And if there are no problems with immigration, as some claim, why the need to hush-hush?

This sub has not been overrun with immigration-related topics. Where is the megathread about Varoufakis and all of the interviews he is giving atm? Where is the megathread for EU-federalists?

[–]Benthetraveler [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The fact that there were completely irrelevant stories on the frontpage because initial reporting was wrong and put immigrants in it when they weren't proves you wrong.

[–]auntieaggie [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Why are the left obsessed with censorship?

[–]Augusto_Franco [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Because Bolshevik ideals cannot stand up to scrutiny. It's much easier to censor something than to actually make a well constructed argument.

[–]Benthetraveler [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You know it doesn't actually strengyhen your case when you call a brigade from a facist subreddit. I mean I understand that you want to censor people with that but you look kind of silly if you complain about censorship while trying to censor people.

[–]Finlanddidijustobama [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

as opposed to the right being obsessed with surveillance programs?

In fact I would consider myself very much on the left but also very much against censorship and non intra EU immigration but I guess that doesn't suit your 2cent stereotype

[–]Brenbren25 34ポイント35ポイント  (18子コメント)

Speaking as a moderator of a subreddit this is a terrible example of moderation. I understand you have 10x more subscribers but the principles of moderation stand: do not censor issues that the community decide are relevant. This subreddit does not belong to you but the community. If the community wishes to speak about immigration, they must be allowed, given that they are civil.

Blatant censorship and the dismissal of opinions that you don't approve of but that are shared by a large percentage of the community will only raise tensions.

[–]sachalamp 3ポイント4ポイント  (34子コメント)

Disgusting. Censorship for anything that's against the sub's "progressive/liberal" leaning.

Stay classy, /r/europe, at least now mods show their true skin

[–]The NetherlandsTheothor 35ポイント36ポイント  (2子コメント)

Personally I think it would be better if you did this by adding "Immigration" filters so that users can filter it if they want to. I would love to use that. This seems a bit restrictive.

[–]Benthetraveler [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Filter doesn't prevent brigading, megathread does. Look how angry all the nazi subreddits are. Currently 4 subreddits brigade this thread because this new rule prevents them from being an effective brigade.

[–]Latviafancyzauerkraut [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I agree, a filter would have be a better solution. They should have asked to community first wich solution they think would be better, I don't know how they didn't predict a shitstorm in this thread. I don't agree that this is necessarily a censorship, as the thread will be on the top every day.

[–]Eurofutur 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

Extremely unpleasant to read... You know what, while you're at it. Just ban any post mentioning immigration...

[–]United Kingdomtwisted_grump 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Does this include migration within the EU?

[–]DenmarkMrStrange15 35ポイント36ポイント  (4子コメント)

Couldn't we just have a filter instead? Like we have (had?) with Ukraine.

[–]pies n gravySlyRatchet[M] -17ポイント-16ポイント  (3子コメント)

I explain some of the reasoning in this comment.

TL;DR: both the filtering system and megathread system work well for what we're trying to achieve here. It's just that megathreads have a few small advantages which give it an edge over flair-filtering systems in this specific instance.

[–]The NetherlandsTheothor 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Isn't the disadvantage of not having specific discussions about news articles bigger that the few small advantages that you will get?

[–]European Unionacolytee 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

A filter is optional for each user, this is not. Megathreads are also very inconvenient as there is no way to rank post by relevance. Major news will quickly get buried under lower quality posts.

[–]DenmarkMrStrange15 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

While I do understand what you mean and why a megathread might be a good idea, I still think the filter is best. In my opinion there will be a greater chance of missing news, when the user has to go into another thread and look through all the stories. It's far easier to discover what has happened, if it's on your frontpage and not hidden away in a thread.

Also this is not really relevant to the megathread-filter discussion, but a discussion about what to choose with us (the users) would have been very welcome. I do understand that such a thing might not be feasible, but an attempt would have been nice. I also reckognize that this is you guys' subreddits, so you make the calls and not us.

[–]The United States of EuropeTheConnivingPedant 12ポイント13ポイント  (5子コメント)

Is this a good idea? Aren't we just going to get swamped by immigrants from those subreddits? All coming over here causing trouble, disrespecting our customs, leaving downvotes all over the place. I think they should just stay in their own subs. Their culture is incompatible with ours and they don't integrate.

[–]European UnionIDownvotePunsAndMeme 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

/r/europe will be taking all the immigrants from those subs and settling them here. Because we value human rights above all else.

[–]Commonwealth MemberCanadianman22 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am white and male. Where would I be resettled?

[–]AnarchyObeyStatusQuo 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

At least they're all going to be locked in immigration megathreads and won't be able to harass or, God forbid, hurt the good, rule obeying subscribers native to /r/europe.

[–]The United States of EuropeTheConnivingPedant 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, I tell you what. I'm not racist, but I wouldn't feel safe lurking in this thread at night.

[–]an Old World-er in the New WorldQuirkyQuarQ 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Touche, mon ami.

[–]United KingdomFrankeh 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

Controversial tag pls mods. I don't know how to think.

[–]Czechiaferoslav 62ポイント63ポイント  (49子コメント)

Front page has been in no way drown in imigration posts, what a bullshit argument. There are frequent posts about imigration, but definitely no that much that other topics would be drown out. And new tab is full of bullshit all the time, not only full of imigration stuff, that's why upvotes exist and it works perfectly fine. Megathread will just eliminate any relevant threads on imigration and everything will be lost in one unreadable thread.

You are censoring one of the most important issues in Europe on /r/Europe subreddit. Incredible.

[–]sachalamp 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

They've been actively censoring for a long time, but this is just ridiculous. But at least we can now see /r/europe mods for what they truly are and how progressive/liberal works: by censoring dissenting views.

[–]Swabiagenitaliban 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

Front page has been in no way drown in imigration posts, what a bullshit argument.

Hey, they were able to find the terrifying number of six submissions when cleaning up...

[–]Czechiaferoslav 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, and only like half of them were on the front page. Such an horror, every other topic was drown out! Thanks god we have mods who will make sure that those imigration threads won't opress other topics ever again!

[–]The NetherlandsPhalanx300 21ポイント22ポイント  (13子コメント)

This essentially. Vote system allows subreddits to have the posts which are most relevant up in top, the very essence of megathreads seem to be censoring subjects which some people may not enjoy talking about. Then again if more people are upvoting such posts then it is something most people do want to talk about.

[–]Indiaperseus0807 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

You are censoring one of the most important issues in Europe on /r/Europe[1] subreddit.

Ah yes, censorship, the act of placing something right above everything else in a larger font and different colours. Must suck to be censored that way.

[–]PortugalPepeLinux [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's funny how they take everything as an offense, which is exactly what they accuse SJWs of doing. They, like the so-called SJWs, are trying to find every possible source of discrimination or censorship, even when it defies logic. They're the people they most hate. They are the SJWs.

[–]SenseiSwag -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's a great idea. You're not really censoring anything because people can still debate and post here, but this helps cool down the hate-jerk that's been going on lately. Some people really got nothing better to do than rave against immigrants on the internet all day.

[–]indigo-alien 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

I disagree with this move but that's not going to change a thing. This is just one more way to censor a topic from the sub itself. Oh well.

[–]European UnionIDownvotePunsAndMeme 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's plastered on top of the sub. Literally plastered. How is that censorship again?

[–]European UnionTheBeerCannon -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because a certain clientele can't copypaste the same propaganda in 10 different threads every day now. Duh.

[–]BestoniaStrukkStar 13ポイント14ポイント  (19子コメント)

I understand how it could've become annoying for a lot of people, but I think having the option to filter certain topics would've been better. Like /r/worldnews has.

This is still pretty much censoring that subject, since most people won't be checking this thread or they might only use the front page and not visit /r/europe specifically.

[–]Northern IrelandBuckfost 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

Any submissions about immigration posted to the rest of the sub will be removed

What qualifies as a post about immigration? If the EU announces a major treaty change withdrawing freedom of movement, will I only find out about this news if I visit the sticky thread? Will you remove the news article announcing the change from the main sub as you have claimed? No, you wont. You are trying to change the rules so either be more clear about what new rule you are trying to implement, or just admit that you mean any negative post about immigration will be removed and the community can decide if it supports this rule.

[–]AustriaSaltySolomon -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I hope you will allow us to use our best judgement, if you disagree with a decision you can always send us a modmail.

[–]an Old World-er in the New WorldQuirkyQuarQ 5ポイント6ポイント  (10子コメント)

Mods: one request. Could you consider timestamping entries in the OP, so it becomes easier to check if something new has been added?

Edit: in addition, a numbered list would also be nicer so you can easily reference a particular entry when commenting upon it.

[–]pies n gravySlyRatchet[M] -7ポイント-6ポイント  (9子コメント)

Those are good ideas. I'll have them implemented ASAP. The submissions which have already been uploaded'll just be given the same time stable.

[–]insuranceclaiminsp 6ポイント7ポイント  (8子コメント)

Will threads about crimes committed by people who just happen to be immigrants be relegated to the sticky thread or is it just for topics concerning EU countries immigration policies.

For example, suppose a gang of British politicians gang rape a child, that wouldn't be removed from the sub, but supposing a gang of Somalian refugees gang rape a child, would that be removed?

[–]pies n gravySlyRatchet -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Depends whether the "immigrant" bit of the news story is the important part. Like, if there was about random serial sheep lovers in Wales, then it would focus on the sheep loving. But if Angela Merkel was running around the Welsh country side loving sheep, then the really news bit there would be that it is Angela Merkel doing something strange. The emphasis shifts. Likewise, if the emphasis of the news story is that it is an immigrant doing something, then it will likely get put into this mega thread. If the story is that there is a mass murderer, but he also happens to be an immigrant and the immigrant bit isn't very important to the story, then it probably won't get put here.

TL;DR: it depends on the article itself, and what parts of the story it emphasises.

[–]insuranceclaiminsp 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

so a post about Somalian refugees gang-raping a child would or would not get removed?

[–]an Old World-er in the New WorldQuirkyQuarQ 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why don't we cross that bridge when we come to it, instead of asking the mods to decide now on tens of hypothetical scenarios?

[–]insuranceclaiminsp 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because a sub with vague rules where threads are arbitrarily removed at the whims of the mods is problematic.

[–]pies n gravySlyRatchet -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Although yes, this is the principle I like to take.

Most of the time, you have to deal with situations as they arise, because you have no idea what's going to happen before it happens.

[–]LithuaniaMrMykse 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

I am sure that people are going to talk about this nicely /s

[–]BlueSparkle 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

good thing we got meta-comment being sarcastic about it. i was alread getting worried.

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