0
0

Danish navy protecting "the grind" (self.Denmark)

peat76 が 投稿

I'm very interested as to what normal Danish citizens think about their taxes being used to protect and support the grind in the Faroese where hundreds of pilot whales are slowly hacked to death?
Is there any media coverage in Denmark that it goes on or any mention of the Danish navy arresting sea shepherd members who are out there trying to stop it?

全 109 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]Zaphod2000Vestegnen 22ポイント23ポイント  (36子コメント)

We are mostly mad that the dumb animal rights activists costs us tax money to protect the completely legal and historic whaling industry.

Edit: I am going to augment this comment with a link to an interesting documentary that lets both "sides" of this dispute have their say, and shows some of the cultural background : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYOTkwFhe-w

Bonus : It has Pamela Anderson comparing the Grind to playing GTA

[–]Naggy2k 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pretty much this

[–]Grovbolle 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

True story

[–]tailcalledDenmark 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

Why would they stop it? The only reason seems to be that some idiot activists are lying about the facts of the case on the internet.

[–]peat76[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why would who stop it? Why would the Danish navy stop protecting the Faroese from killing the whales? That wasn't my question

[–]Sub_Roses 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, your first sentence wasn't a question, just a statement with a questionmark following it.

Your second sentence has two questions though.

"Is there any media coverage in Denmark that it goes on…"

No, not really.

"…or any mention of the Danish navy arresting sea shepherd members who are out there trying to stop it? "

No, nothing.

[–]Grovbolle 11ポイント12ポイント  (8子コメント)

So OP, if you wonder what we think of the Danish navy supporting the whaling industry, you are actively manipulating the question, they are merely protecting honest working whalers from lawbreaking activists.

Do I like whaling? - I'm indifferent to the matter

Do I like that the Danish navy have to protect the whalers? - Seems like a waste of money

Who is the reason for us wasting money? - Sea Shepherd

Ultimately who do I hate, the whalers following the law or the Sea Shepherd activists who are breaking the law? - Sea Shepherd.

[–]peat76[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (7子コメント)

Thanks for the detailed response. Personally I don't believe in this day and age whaling has any place (or killing any wild animal and inferring with nature since humans have wrecked nearly every ecosystem going) but it's very interesting to see so little compassion for wild animals from the responses so far. Is that a Danish thing, i have noted the Germans are very wildlife friendly but Norwegians aren't. Do Danish feel closer to Norwegians than Germans?

[–]Zaphod2000Vestegnen 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

We are human-friendly, that's not bad.

[–]scruffy_water_mammalSydhavnen 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

noted the Germans are very wildlife friendly but Norwegians aren't

Wut?

"You have noted"?

How did you note this?

Norweigans are tradidtionally a fishing people. This might be what is confusing you, since you don't think that people should be able to fish for food?

[–]Naggy2k 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

so little compassion for wild animals from the responses so far

The whales are not endangered and the hunters at least try to give them a clean kill, quite compasionate imo.

Do Danish feel closer to Norwegians than Germans?

Probably Norwegians mentally-wise, but i am not sure where you are going with this.

[–]MrSwingKingEuropa 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Is it better to kill a cow than a deer?

What about fishing - is that evil too?

[–]peat76[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Neither No not really as the oceans can't sustain the amount humans are taking out of it. Some one line fishing and taking one fish home to eat, I have no problem with that. The ocean can support that and he's not hacking the fish to bits for 5 minutes whilst the villagers cheer.

[–]Zaphod2000Vestegnen 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Again, the grind whaling is sustainable. The whale is not endagered. So yes, the oceans can sustain it.

You've been told this multiple times in this thread, yet you persist with this false information. At least get your facts straight.

[–]WorsaaeVendsyssel 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

So Germans are very wildlife friendly, because they don't have a whaling industry while the Norwegians aren't because they do?

Seriously, I'm going to spend my next two weeks in Sweden eating nothing but whale. Mark my word. Oh, and the local, Lapland reindeer too.

[–]petemateDenmark 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

By the way, we also killed a giraffe.

[–]scruffy_water_mammalSydhavnen 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

In 1985, the Faroe Islands outlawed the use of spears and harpoons in the hunt, as these weapons are considered to be unnecessarily cruel to animals.

Once ashore, the pilot whale is killed by cutting the dorsal area through to the spinal cord with a special whaling knife, a mønustingari (spinal cord cutter).

During the cut of a pilot whale’s spine, its main arteries also get cut. Because of this, the surrounding sea tends to turn a bloody red. This vivid imagery is often used by anti-whaling groups in their campaigns against the hunt. These images of a blood-red sea can have a shocking effect on bystanders.

Since harpoons, spears, and firearms are prohibited, the whalers must be on the shoreline of the water and kill each individual whale.

Ólavur Sjúrðaberg, the chairman of the Faroese Pilot Whalers’ Association, describes the pilot whale hunt in such a way: “I’m sure that no one who kills his own animals for food is unmoved by what he does. You want it done as quickly and with as little suffering as possible for the animal.”

You seem to be very mainpulative with your wording, which is why you are getting more shit than answers.

No one is "supporting" whales being "slowly hacked to death".

The Faroese have their destinct culture and i think that most danes know and simply don't really care. They hunt their wales, we heard our pigs. The hunting is sustainable and they are doing what they can to limit the suffering of the whales, and that seems quite enough. You are aware that they acually eat the whales, right? It is their main source of a lot of things.

It really gets very little media attention as it happens literally every year.

[–]Kutowi 5ポイント6ポイント  (8子コメント)

Why did you create this asking for opinions when you're only looking for an answer you like? To feel superior due to your unending love for animals?

As it's been pointed out by others, what's happening isn't too different from what's happening to other animals (such as cows). It's not mindless slaughter and hacking into whatever part of the animal they can get to. The fact that you say "slowly hacked to death" tells me that you have no idea what's actually going on. Sea Shepherd is breaking the laws and outright lying about what's actually happening - obviously to promote their cause and make it seem more needed. Am I thrilled that tax money is spent on "protecting" and "supporting" the people killing the whales? Well, that's clearly another loaded question. The tax money is being spent to uphold the law and I don't mind that, no. In the same way I don't mind tax money being spent on patrol cars and whatnot.

If you want to have a discussion about animal slaughter or hunting in general there's loads of places for that. Or do you just think that whales are some kind of superior animal that we shouldn't touch?

[–]Naggy2k 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Very little media coverage and general disinterest in the matter.

[–]MrStrange15 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seems fair enough...

[–]bbuullll33rrDanmark 5ポイント6ポイント  (23子コメント)

I personally think it's fine that they kill the whales and eat them - it's an old tradition. I think most Danish people feels the same way but the people who frequently comment on Facebook would probably disagree. The animal crazy lovers and those who think killing an animal should be illegal are usually the loudest.

Didn't know the Danish navy protects the grind whales - that's stupid. Or are they protecting the people killing the whales? Your wording is really weird.

[–]peat76[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (22子コメント)

They are stopping anyone from interfering with the capturing and Inhumanely killing of the whales. Basically the Faroes made a new law recently saying anyone interfering with the grind is breaking the law so Denmark sent two big navy vessels in to stop sea Shepherd from trying to guide the whales to safety.

[–]Zaphod2000Vestegnen 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

You are adding a lot of colour-commentary there. There are pretty strict laws about how the whales must be killed - one swift cut through the vertebrae cutting off blood supply to the brain.

Same way a lot of other animals are slaughtered. Nothing inhumane about that. We are in fact the only species of animals that worry about the suffering of our prey - so very human!

[–]peat76[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Other animals don't have the emotion to care. Humans do although I do wonder about where care is nowadays. It seems rare in humans this day and age

[–]WorsaaeVendsyssel 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Basically the Faroes made a new law recently saying anyone interfering with the grind is breaking the law

Well, I think the same thing would apply if a crazy vegan tried to stop Danish Crown from making bacon.

[–]bbuullll33rrDanmark 2ポイント3ポイント  (13子コメント)

Your questions and answers are really loaded and biased. Remember, these a whales (animals) not people.

[–]peat76[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (12子コメント)

Right so humans are worth more than wild animals?

[–]MrSwingKingEuropa 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Right so humans are worth more than wild animals?

Yes - in every sense of the word. That's why you get prison for killing a human and not for killing an animal. But hey, if animals means so much to you, would you be willing to give up medicine tested on, or made from animals, even if it meant you would die?

[–]peat76[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

You go to prison for killing lots of animals too. Just think you would have been sent to prison for killing hitler in 1936 but it would have been ok to hack a pregnant koala to death in the same year. I know which one I would prefer to kill.

[–]dks42 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Excuse me, who would you rather kill in 1936, Hitler with a bomb or a pregnant koala with a pickaxe?

Choose carefully, if you chose the koala, someone could think you a savage antisemite.

OP, you have a vivid imagination.

[–]Zaphod2000Vestegnen 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yeah. What would you kill when starving : A rabbit or your neighbor?

[–]peat76[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

We aren't starving and neither are the Faroese.

[–]Zaphod2000Vestegnen 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

No, because they eat whale. Geez you seem like you have zero idea what the faeroe islands is. They are barren rocks surrounded by sea with fish in it, what the fuck do you expect them to eat????

Besides, you didn't answer the question!

[–]peat76[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

They aren't starving because they have supermarkets like the rest of civilised society, it is not 1895. It's 2015. There's no question to answer. We aren't starving.

[–]nittun 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

yeah, we should all just stop producing food we got supermarket guys!!! we dont need to make food, it magicly appears in the supermarket!! faroe islands is in the middle of freaking nowhere they cant get anything fresh other than a few sheep and what they can get out of the waters. no economy would survive what you are suggesting.

[–]Zaphod2000Vestegnen 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, like a supermarket steak or even carrot flown 2000 miles beats local organic food..

You have your priorities all too wrong!

Besides, you still did not answer the question.

[–]bbuullll33rrDanmark 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Eating anything but fish or whale caught around the Faroe Islands is really, really expensive since it has to be sailed/flown to the Faroe Islands. Trust me, I've lived in Greenland for 5 years... Of course they're going to eat grind.

[–]bbuullll33rrDanmark 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes?

[–]Sub_Roses 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Should the Danish Army protect pigs, cows and chicken from being slaughtered?

[–]WorsaaeVendsyssel 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

The navy isn't protecting the whales. They are protecting the whalers from militant vegans.

[–]tailcalledDenmark 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

Question: why are you so certain that it's the official sources who are lying and not your activist groups who are lying?

[–]peat76[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (9子コメント)

They have video of piles of rotting meat, thy have video of whales being hacked at and thrashing for more than 5 minutes before death etc (btw that's not a swift slice to the spine and I don't see how any person can believe 1 man can precisely slice a 20 foot thrashing whales spine in one go) Also who would believe a nation who have made participation of the grind compulsory in law and are quite happy for this type of barbaric activity to still be going ahead in modern times. They obviously know it's archaic which is why the try to justify it with "its traditional". We used to roll women down hills in barrels full of spikes. That was traditional but it doesn't happen anymore. "Tradition" is no excuse for torturing 100's of un-required animals to death.

[–]Zaphod2000Vestegnen 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

Also who would believe a nation who have made participation of the grind compulsory in law

Look, it has been ok as long as you were just curious and asked questions, but this blatant spreading of bullshit information that you've clearly been brainwashed with has to stop.

I case anyone is in doubt. It is utter and complete lies that it should be mandatory to participate in the slaughtering the Grind or that tourists will be arrested for non-participation.

The OPPOSITE is true: In 2013 the whaling laws were changed so that is is now ILLEGAL for anyone to slaughter whales unless you have taken a training course in doing it the right way!

You are very clearly here to promote Sea Sheperd bullshit that you have done ZERO fact-checking on.

Does it not give you just a little pause for considering that you may not know the full story when you can be SO wrong ??

[–]peat76[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (6子コメント)

Zaph you are spreading your information that you have believed from Faroes media. How is that different to me believing video evidence and information gotten from other sources. You are the loudest person in this thread, nearly all my responses have been from you and it has skewed my opinion of danes. I will leave this thread now believing not all danes are like you. Cheers

[–]Zaphod2000Vestegnen 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

How about I quote directly from the law:

Instruction and certification 
§ 18 
From 1 May 2015 only those having attended a course of instruction in the regulation whale killing equipment and methods, assessment of when a whale is dead, and the whaling laws and regulations will be permitted to kill whales. 

2) The course shall consist of at least 2 hours of theory. The  instruction  materials shall be approved by the Government. 

3) The district administrator ensures that courses are offered and  issues the certificates of participation in the course.

www.whaling.fo/media/1041/grindakunngerðplus2013plusen-1.pdf

[–]peat76[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (3子コメント)

What does that prove? That shows me the person that hacks the whales to death has had to sit at a "course" for two hours.

[–]Zaphod2000Vestegnen 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

It proves that I was not just "brainwashed" by the media, but actually provided you factual information.

How many facts have you provided to back up the claims you are relaying from sensationalist youtube videos that aim to hit you in the feels rather than your mind?

[–]peat76[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

That doesn't prove anything so much so it's nearly irrelevant. It doesn't prove whales aren't hacked to death. It doesn't prove the Faroese don't need hundreds and hundreds of whales to eat. It doesn't prove anything.

[–]WorsaaeVendsyssel 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dude, are you serious?

[–]bbuullll33rrDanmark 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Watch this video about "the grind" and see that they are not doing it for sports.

If you are not trolling I feel really sorry for you that you spend so much energy arguing with people that killing these pilot whales is inhumane and only believing your own sources and this one video of a guy who had to fight to kill the whale for longer than usual. You are a brainwashed little human being that spends too much time on the internet.

Why not spend your time one something else? And even in the same "field"! Like trying to do something about poachers in Africa killing an actual endangered species, the black rhino, killing white rhinos and elephants so they can sell their horns. Or shark culling in Australia where they are luring sharks close to the shore (which makes them more dangerous to humans) so they can easily kill only because they are "dangerous to humans".

Or maybe think about people suffering from starvation in many, many countries around the world! People running for their lives from Syria because of war! Or just something that makes the least bit of sense.

And then of course try to use real sources instead of your own made-up ones.

[–]tailcalledDenmark 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

They have video of piles of rotting meat, thy have video of whales being hacked at and thrashing for more than 5 minutes before death etc (btw that's not a swift slice to the spine and I don't see how any person can believe 1 man can precisely slice a 20 foot thrashing whales spine in one go)

And how are you so certain you are interpreting the videos correctly? Try posting them and we will explain what you are seeing.

Also who would believe a nation who have made participation of the grind compulsory in law

The thing is, you're claiming tourists are arrested for not participating. That would only be possible if the government is completely incompetent. You really should not believe any source that claims such stupid things.

and are quite happy for this type of barbaric activity to still be going ahead in modern times.

To my knowledge, the factory farming of pigs is much worse for the animals, yet a lot of countries allow that. Your position would require you to not trust any nation at all.

They obviously know it's archaic which is why the try to justify it with "its traditional".

There will always be stupid justifications for any principle. Claiming that you are against the grind because it's cruel is much more stupid than claiming that you are in favor of it because its traditional (with a few caveats that are not relevant here), so if we adopt the position "reject the positions with the stupidest supporters", we would end up rejecting your position.

[–]warsel 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

From Faroe Islands here - To the Danish Navy and people:

Thank you so much for supporting us. Im sitting here with a huge grin on my face seeing all these butthurt uneducated SS members bashing out lie after lie on social media's with no valid argument, and an even bigger smile now that some members of the parlament are coming straight out saying they support us - Thank you!

[–]NanoViking 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was at the whale drive today, and would like to point two things out:

  1. The navy ships are not there to protect the whale drive specifically, they always patrol the waters around the faroes, which belongs to the Kingdom of Denmark.

  2. The whales are not "slowly hacked to death." This was the first time i saw the new spinal lance in use, and it was very efficient. The pod was quite large (100+ whales) and the killing took under 10 minutes. After that only about 3 whales who didn't beach were left.

You're welcome to ask any questions if you want :)

[–]Sub_Roses 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can read about it in the Faroe papers:

http://www.oyggjatidindi.com/grindin+slapp+men+tvey+shea+sheperd+folk+eru+tikin.html

Some nice pictures here: http://portal.fo/myndir+grindadrapid+i+sandagerdi.html

[–]HitnoFøroyar 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If the navy wasn't up here in the Faroes doing their thing right now, then they would just be sitting on their arses doing nothing(sightseeing the north atlantic) and still get payed, this way they at least get to do something.

[–]WorsaaeVendsyssel 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm all for. The animals are killed in a graphic but still humane way. Plus, it's a big part of the Faroese culture and self-image. As long as they don't kill too many, I really can't see the problem.

[–]TheKingOfLobstersAalborg -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Do you have any information or sources on the matter? I don't know much about it and would like to be a little more informed before I join the angry mob