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Red Pill TheoryWomen Are Attracted To Testosterone: A Biological Basis For Shit Tests (self.TheRedPill)

adultsareweird が 投稿

This is about our good ol’ hormone, testosterone. If you don’t already know this, testosterone is implicated in most attributes that we describe as ‘masculine’. Higher testosterone is correlated with assertive behavior, greater muscle mass, risk-taking, leadership, higher sex drive, squarer jawlines, abdominal musculature due to low fat, and aggression (with a caveat). The caveat on aggression is that low testosterone is associated with bullying behaviour, but high testosterone is associated with aggressive behaviour in the face of perceived injustice.

Virtually everything that women find attractive in men, both in appearance and behavior, are related to testosterone.

Testosterone levels automatically rise in anticipation of a challenge. After the challenge testosterone rises again if you succeed and falls if you fail.

Women are attracted to winners, because winners have higher testosterone levels. One way for someone to quickly increase their testosterone levels is to succeed in a challenge.

Like, say, a shit test.

When a woman shit tests a man she is offering a challenge, the outcome of which will determine his testosterone levels. If he passes, they rise, along with her attraction. If he fails, they fall, along with her attraction.

This is also why high testosterone men get fewer shit tests: their testosterone levels are already apparent and women instinctively discern this.

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[–]colombia40 30ポイント31ポイント  (10子コメント)

"This is also why high testosterone men get fewer shit tests"

High T and Muscles O'Poppin attract attention. Sometimes from the wrong sex. Guys puff their chest and maybe some of your friends feel tougher in your presence.

I've never had more aggressive behavior turned towards me until I got bigger and dressed better. Next thing insecure bros are bumping up against you on 'accident' and giving you looks.

It amazes when I go out with a 6'5" former ncaa athlete how many guys pop off to him.

[–]adultsareweird[S] 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

Interesting. I've had the opposite experience, with much better treatment and respect since I've gotten more buff. But there are a few factors in that. However, guys will compete against other guys for hierarchy. It's the women you'll get fewer shit tests from.

[–]Born_of_a_broken_man 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

As a big dude I agree, no one tries to AMOG me or give me looks. All I get is downwards head nods.

The reality is that when people get bigger / are bigger they try to personify that physical trait into a personality trait - causing more trials of dominance between other men.

[–]sway_usa 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed. The posturing is probably more due to a change in personality from the guy who got bigger.

[–]sigmayogi 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

I started getting this a lot at work. I am 6'2", lost a lot of weight and am now fairly muscular (not bodybuilder but working on it), and shorter dudes constantly "bump into me", try to stare me down, don't move out of the way cautiously when passing in hallways. I get similar behavior from butch lesbians too, we have a fair amount of those as well.

I never got this when I was overweight and unattractive. Just hold your frame and act like a normal human. They end up looking like rude idiots in the end.

[–]arrayay 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

don't move out of the way cautiously when passing in hallways.

They are rude idiots because they don't move out of the way cautiously when passing in hallways?

[–]awalt_cupcake 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

They're trying to start something in order to prove themselves. The timing is rude. The desire to prove themselves then and there for no reason than to satisfy their ego make them idiots.

[–]Sawagurumi[🍰] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Biology. The size of the black 'bib' in male house sparrows is correlated with the testosterone level, and social status. So researchers painted a larger black bib on some males who had small bibs, to see if they did better. They didn't, they did very much worse, because the real testosterone guys constantly picked fights with the fake ones, which the latter lost, of course.

[–]awalt_cupcake 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've had this same experience. I thought it would be the opposite: get fit and people will leave you alone. Nope. They challenge you. Even the shorter guys who have something to prove.

How have you handled this?

[–]Grifter32 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I only get shit from guys who are out of shape. They seem to fucking hate me.

I get respect from anybody who works out. They understand the time spent preying at the Iron Temple.

[–]adultsareweird[S] 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

Interestingly, studies on female athletes show a different testosterone pattern than with men. In females, testosterone levels are not at all effected by winning or losing the game. However, their cortisol (stress hormone) levels rise when they face a more difficult opponent than they expected and when they lose.

[–]Primemale 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

On a similar note, working mothers have higher testosterone levels than stay at home mums, women in more competitive fields have higher than more relaxed fields.

So works in a similar way to men, of course they're output won't be any where near as high as a high T man, but perhaps the highest t women and the lowest t guys aren't all that dis similar, I recently spoke to an effeminate young male who said he had sex with a butch lesbian, and she had dominated him and taken the typically male role, I nearly died of laughter.

[–]adultsareweird[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

A few years ago I read a study that indicated that women experience much more stress than men in leadership positions, while men tend to experience a boost of confidence (assuming they're not totally stressed out). The implications were that men were more suited to leadership, biologically. I'll have to find that again, because it would be a good study to have at hand.

[–]newls 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Stands to reason. Women aren't as good at prioritising tasks, and will put a lot of weight on being liked and perceived in a certain way. They feel it's more important for everyone to get along, and they prioritise consensus over effectiveness.

Additionally, women do not like being held accountable, and will go to considerable lengths to ensure plausible deniability. As a boss they are held responsible for everything they and their team does, a situation that fills them with dread and lots of stress.

They are hardwired to protect their own safety and wellbeing (and that of their biological children) above all, and being a manager involves lots of risk. Women do not like risk.

Guys are better able to prioritise things that are important to an overall goal, and their feelings are, to a large extent, independent of what other people think of them.

[–]AdonisHera 7ポイント8ポイント  (13子コメント)

I'm a pretty big guy and compliments from both sexes come regularly, although some women are intimidated by me, as well as most men. I maintain frame at all times in any situation and genuinely carry myself like a king, but will defend anyone in a moment of injustice. Ways to increase test include lifting, no Jacking it or Test injections. But with all things, it's a mindset. Women will shit test you, to weed out the pussys from the real men. Crazy as it sounds, go to a zoo and stare down a silverback or male lion. they can sense if you're pussy or not.

[–]adultsareweird[S] 22ポイント23ポイント  (6子コメント)

Crazy as it sounds, go to a zoo and stare down a silverback or male lion. they can sense if you're pussy or not.

Do I have to be in the cage?

[–]no_face 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I guess if you are crazy enough to get into the cage, they know you are not

[–]cray-cray-cray 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do I have to be in the cage?

Well, yeah, unless you want it to think you're a pussy.

[–]tillybb 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

"I paid a worker at New York's zoo to re-open it just for me and Robin (his wife). When we got to the gorilla cage there was 1 big Silverback gorilla there just bullying all the other gorillas. They were so powerful but their eyes were like an innocent infant. I offered the attendant $10,000 to open the cage and let smash that silverback's snotbox! He declined." Mike Tyson

[–]adultsareweird[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Now that's a match I'd pay to see.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]semondemon24 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    you said no jacking it increases your T?

    [–]jodoninja 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's not so much the jacking itself, as it is the heightened sexual energy that is directed towards a positive goal. That energy has the potential to increase your T, but not if you just sit on your couch doing nothing.

    [–]LordPorker 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Would like to see the source for this.

    [–]Melon_Balls 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Testosterone is highest during abstinence
    the source I linked isn't the greatest; I believe the actual testosterone peak is achieved after ~7 days of abstinence but you get the gist and it's supported by other studies. Of course, this is orgasms from any source, not just masturbation, and according to the source orgasm itself has no interactions with T levels (though it does with prolactin, which might explain perceived loss of testosterone).

    [–]1sardinemanR 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

    I need to see some sources for this, especially the shit test to testosterone level.

    To my knowledge, the only thing that increases T-levels is lifting.

    But apparently not even that is enough for pro athletes in their 30s, who try to get TRT prescribed for them. Of course for pro athletes it could be that their levels are unnaturally low due to steroid use, but I'm not sure about the science on that either.

    [–]adultsareweird[S] 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I need to see some sources for this, especially the shit test to testosterone level.

    To my knowledge, the only thing that increases T-levels is lifting.

    Sure. I thought people would already know that other factors influence testosterone, but no big deal. There are many studies about the effect of winning and T, but here are a few:

    Testosterone rises before judo match and again after for the winners; declines for losers.

    The same thing as the above for tennis players.

    But it's not just physical competition that does this:

    Testosterone increases when winning a gamble.

    Testosterone increases when winning at chess.

    Even if your favorite sports team wins and you're only a spectator, your testosterone rises, too.

    By the way, that last effect is only true for men and not for women.

    Interestingly, when men compete against close friends they do not get the same winner's T boost as when they compete against guys who are not close friends.

    Other studies show that T leads to supportive behaviors for friends, rather than competitiveness.

    As for studies involving shit tests, well, that's my own hypothesis based on extrapolation, but it seems to make sense. If anyone can pick apart the science, they're welcome to do so. I posted for the sake of discussion.

    [–]Sawagurumi[🍰] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Nice, also

    The challenge hypothesis posits that male testosterone levels increase in the presence of fertile females to facilitate mating and increase further in the presence of male rivals to facilitate male--male competition. This hypothesis has been supported in a number of nonhuman animal species. We conducted an experiment to test the challenge hypothesis in men. Thirty-four men were randomly assigned to view high-competitive or low- competitive male rivals at high and low fertility within their partner's ovulatory cycle (confirmed by luteinizing hormone tests). Testosterone was measured upon arrival to the lab and before and after the manipulation. Based on the challenge hypothesis, we predicted that a) men's baseline testosterone would be higher at high relative to low fertility within their partner's cycle, and b) men's testosterone would be higher in response to high- competitive rivals, but not in response to low-competitive rivals, at high relative to low fertility within their partner's cycle. Contrary to the first prediction, men's baseline testosterone levels did not differ across high and low fertility. However, consistent with the second prediction, men exposed to high-competitive rivals showed significantly higher post-test testosterone levels at high relative to low fertility, controlling for pre-test testosterone levels. Men exposed to low-competitive rivals showed no such pattern (though the fertility by competition condition interaction fell short of statistical significance). This preliminary support for the challenge hypothesis in men builds on a growing empirical literature suggesting that men possess mating adaptations sensitive to fertility cues emitted by their female partners.

    Fales, M. R., Gildersleeve, K. A., and Haselton, M. G. (2014). Exposure to perceived male rivals raises men’s testosterone on fertile relative to nonfertile days of their partner’s ovulatory cycle. Hormones and Behavior, 65:454–460.

    Also, men in committed romantic relationships have lower testosterone that singles or those in new relationships.

    Also, simply being in the presence of women (even if you are not attracted to them) increases T, but just make sure they are not crying. women's tears lower testosterone levels.

    Emotional tearing is a poorly understood behavior that is considered uniquely human. In mice, tears serve as a chemosignal. We therefore hypothesized that human tears may similarly serve a chemosignaling function. We found that merely sniffing negative-emotion-related odorless tears obtained from women donors induced reductions in sexual appeal attributed by men to pictures of women's faces. Moreover, after sniffing such tears, men experienced reduced self-rated sexual arousal, reduced physiological measures of arousal, and reduced levels of testosterone. Finally, functional magnetic resonance imaging revealed that sniffing women's tears selectively reduced activity in brain substrates of sexual arousal in men.

    Gelstein, S., Yeshurun, Y., Rozenkrantz, L., Shushan, S., Frumin, I., Roth, Y., and Sobel, N. (2011). Human tears contain a chemosignal. Science, 331(6014):226–30.

    [–]adultsareweird[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    women's tears lower testosterone levels

    That's interesting. Makes sense from a biological perspective, because higher testosterone reduces empathy. Therefore, female tears are a biological way to increase empathy in men. Which is exactly the resulting behavior most of the time.

    I remember a saying from when I was a kid: "Tears are a woman's war paint." My mother told me that one.

    [–]Primemale 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Completely untrue, people often underestimate the effect that environmental factors have on testosterone levels, such as being a leader of a group, (of men, or mixed social group) pushing your boundaries, such as doing things that ''scare'' you, being competitive, being around women and behaving in a dominant manner with them, being highly confident etc.

    These things as far as I'm concerned are even MORE important than lifting for testosterone levels because these things happen consistently throughout the day, providing consistently high T output. Although of course lifting does too, but if you were to lift hard but stay in doors most of the time watching netflix and never pushing your boundaries etc you will have significantly lower t levels than men with the aforementioned habits.

    Also to sustain a high T level a high fat diet seems optimal, from the data, after all Testosterone is made from cholesterol.

    A great read on all things testosterone, including factors that vary levels and much, much more is: Testosterone, sex, power and the will to win (2015)

    [–]merteil2 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

    So what to do if you have naturally low free testosterone?

    Mine is 340 ng/dl, average is like 600? Doctors refuse to do anything because my levels are not "clinically debilitating enough".

    I've tried lifting heavy, eating certain foods... fuck, I've tried every homemade internet solution that claims to help. Still nothing. Add to that my height (5'5") and ethnicity (Indian) and I'm starting to get a little discouraged. Women avoid me and my attempts to be alpha are taken as a cute joke, by guys and girls alike.

    Anyone know a proven solid way to gain longterm testosterone that doesn't just last for an hour before disappearing? Believe me, I want to be big. I want to be strong. I want to have that scientifically proven testosterone-driven confidence boost. But my body is making it incredibly difficult.

    [–]Not_In_Charge 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Just an FYI, that's your total testosterone, not free testosterone.

    I'd look for another doctor if I were you. There are definitely doctors out there who will treat you.

    [–]tokesense 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Hey! Another Indian RP brother!

    First of all, go all out to live the primal hunter-gatherer lifestyle. Check out primalblueprint.com

    This is the baseline over which you should try out all other experiments.

    The next thing you want to test is your stress levels (even if you don't feel stressed as such). If you have a smartphone, there's an app called stress check which measures your HRV (heart rate variability), which is the gold standard for measuring stress.

    It might not be perfectly accurate, but it gives a good approximation of your stress levels.

    Take a baseline reading just after you wake up, it should be on the low end of the scale.

    Take 3-4 measurements throughout the day and just before you sleep.

    If it's high then you know what to focus on, chronic stress has HUGE effects on testosterone levels.

    Also, I think what you measured is total T, not free T.

    Also if you suspect you're not getting enough via food, then supplement zinc and magnesium.

    I'll happily post specific information on how to reduce stress, (apart from the standard approach of meditation, workout and spend time in nature) if someone wants it.

    Edit: typos

    [–]semondemon24 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I would focus on high fat foods and avoid carbs. There are plenty of "testosterone" diets out there.

    [–]Primemale 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Testosterone levels are HIGHLY malleable, second to second, minute to minute, (although there are basal rhythms) therefore several readings would need to be done in order to ascertain even a vaguely ''general'' reading. For example even what happenned to you on your way to the docs office or sitting in the waiting room could affect your total testosterone considerably, now you might understand why it is so difficult to get an accurate reading.

    I would also second the high fat diet stated below, there is evidence for this rasing t and balancing hormones, such as in ''life without bread'' book and also the book on T above that I referenced ealier.

    [–]LordPorker 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Check that your oestrogen isn't high, or is increasing as T is being aromatased into E2 (which is worse!). Some foods contain high amounts of E, i.e. chickpeas, flaxseed, beans, peas, soy, etc.

    If you're fat, then shift it! Fat contains loads of E, too.

    Also check your SHBG. Too high, and your T is bound up and not utilized by your body.

    Read: The Testosterone Syndrome, by Shippen.

    [–]adultsareweird[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    As has been pointed out, that's your total testosterone and not your free testosterone, which would be a figure under 30. It's actually your free T that is more useful as a measure of bio-available T. But both are relevant.

    I'll tell you what worked for me. I increased my T by over 50% naturally in just a few months. However, I'm not a medical doctor, although I do work in the health field.

    Eat clean. You said you tried it. In the words of Yoda, "There is no try. Do or do not." Stick with it for a minimum of three months. Eat meat and lots of healthy fats (that doesn't mean fried foods). Avoid sugar, because it lowers T. Eat healthy carbs, because low-carb diets lower T (most people don't realize this). Eat lots of dark green vegetables, because they have nutrients that boost T.

    Exercise, of course. But not all exercise is equal. Leg exercise increases T twice as much as upper body workouts. And don't over-do it. Burn-out will lower your T, mostly due to raised cortisol levels.

    Supplement. I recommend zinc, magnesium, and B vitamins. Take B vitamins in the morning and magnesium at night. Also, I took horny goat weed and tribulus terrestris. Studies are not conclusive on those two herbs, but they seemed to help me.

    Get sunlight. It is by far the best way to boost your vitamin D levels. If you're darker skinned you need much more than everyone else does to get the same amount of vitamin D. I'm not sure what the stats are for Indians in the USA, but I know that for African Americans the amount of vitamin D deficiency is enormous. Off the top of my head it's estimated at over 70% of the population. It would be similar for you. Vitamin D is very important for many things in the body and certainly for T. You can supplement as well, but don't just supplement without getting sunlight. By the way, sunlight through glass is not at all useful. You'll just get skin damage. You need direct sunlight for healthy exposure.

    Win and lead, however you can. Play something that allows you to win. However, it has to be a challenge or it won't count. And get in some kind of leadership position somewhere, somehow, if you can.

    [–]MoneyStatusLooks 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This post reminds me of what I learned in the book "The Winner Effect". Basically talks about how testosterone is jacked up when you have positive experiences and goes down when you fail.

    It's why you want to go for baby steps. So start pulling 5's first, then 6's, 7s etc etc. The positive cycle of good feedback will increase your testosterone and make you feel like a fucking god. Whereas if you just start going for 9s straight away and you get rejected you test will plummet and you will feel like shit and give up.

    [–]Jax-T 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    You should read The Winner Effect if you have not yet. Good post.

    [–]adultsareweird[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I've never read it, but you're the second guy so far to recommend it here, so I'm going to check it out.

    [–]Temptationn 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Testosterone levels automatically rise in anticipation of a challenge. After the challenge testosterone rises again if you succeed and falls if you fail.

    So this is why when I go for a new PR in the gym and actually hit it the rest of my workout is a breeze, but if I fail that PR I honestly don't even want to workout anymore the rest of the day.

    [–]TomDemian 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Damn I need to go get testosterone injections so I can get all those things

    [–]1pcadrian 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    One day I'll do a write up on how it changed me.

    [–]RPGrappler 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I know too many dudes who are on TRT and they all claim they feel great and its life changing...I'm just extremely cautious of the long term effects of using it.

    [–]AdonisHera 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Low doses and in moderation. Always cycle and you'll be fine.

    [–]adultsareweird[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    If you like, but you can increase your T through diet, exercise, sunlight, and possibly some supplementation.

    [–]1sardinemanR 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    And competition (as per the thread and your links above) of course. And gambling, chess, heck probably even competitive video games (RTS, FPS, Fighting games).

    Basically, just by being active. Although then it becomes a matter of how much the increases are, and I'm not going to pore through everything to find out.

    [–]MidnightSailing 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Valid points, however, I don't agree with the statement that 'women are attracted to testosterone.' That is much like saying women are attracted to dumbells and creatine. Not true, women are attracted to the muscle that result from dumbell and creatine. Similarly, women are not literally attracted to testosterone but are attracted to what results from it.

    If I've taken you too literally, then my bad.

    [–]adultsareweird[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    If I've taken you too literally, then my bad.

    Yep, more literal than I intended.

    [–]NoFapTillIDie 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Do you think nofap increases your testosterone levels?

    [–]adultsareweird[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't know of any studies on this off the top of my head. However, I do know from neuroscience that we wire our brains through our habits. Therefore, if you're fapping instead of having sex you're eventually going to reduce your ability to have sex at some level. Also, ejaculation does lead to a lowered sexual "energy", so to speak, which means that you'll have less motivation for real life sexual pursuits. That's not to say it actually lowers testosterone, but it would have a similar result on sexual motivation.

    There's a bunch of stuff it will do to your dopaminergic and oxytocinergic pathways as well, especially if you're watching porn. Dopamine relates to the excitement you feel with sex and oxytocin comes with the bonding. Obviously, there's no person-to-person bonding from porn, which is a problem in the long-term, but you also raise your threshold for excitement, which can make it more difficult to be excited from regular sex.

    My opinion is that you should fap as infrequently as you can handle. I'm not hardcore no-fap, though. If you gotta fap to get through the week, because you can't have sex, then fap away.