全 34 件のコメント

[–]Suravira 19ポイント20ポイント  (6子コメント)

RoK and Roosh are dead, tbh I never gave them much attention anyways, but he's really gotten out of hand.

[–]GurneyHalleck85 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

Legit. So has Heartiste, who is far worse than Roosh. Heartiste uses Red Pill relationship material as a recruiting tool for White Nationalism, and you can tell that the sort of people who leave comments on his blog are substantially keyboard jockying incels.

[–]MrRexels 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Heartiste just follows red pill mentality to it's logical conclusion. Once you know how get laid, you will want to move onto more meaningful stuff. After all, why do you think feminism, social justice and all that post-modernist crap started existing in the first place?

[–]theozoph 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

If opposition to multiculturalism and massive immigration is White Nationalism, then count me in.

And why would white countries not be patriotic and nationalists, btw? Is anyone here complaining about Japan protecting itself from massive immigration, or China, or India?

Is preserving one's culture only bad when whites do it? Wtf is going on here?

The fact is, there's more than one Red Pill, and the easiest one to digest is sexual differences. But opening your eyes doesn't stop here.

[–]DreamBoatGuy25 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Never really read much of either, out of curiosity why are they dead?

[–]jdoe5 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've been waiting for this post for a long time.

I love TRP, it literally changed my life as many people on here will testify. I have so much to thank for it.

But for all the shit people talk about feminism and white knights just being clueless people who don't look at facts and just keep perpetuating beliefs, there are a lot of idiots on here who do the same thing with TRP beliefs. Like come on, the reason you ended up here is because you started questioning the social status quo, don't just become stupid again because you found something that finally makes sense.

Like OP said, almost every theory or belief is bound to have some hole or shortcoming, and TRP is no exception. Greet everything with a healthy amount of skepticism.

[–]bluehorseinvincible 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah dude, RoK hasn't put out a good article in months.

As for Roosh

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

[–]adultsareweird 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I totally agree!

Wait a minute...

[–]jx234 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

TRP suffers from all the same drawbacks that any system which claims to be able to explain all human behavior - such as Marxism - does. More specifically, any system which is not falsifiable. In science, any example of a case which contradicts a theory refutes that theory. The theory then becomes rubbish and is discarded. Thats why I dislike the use of theory in this context, with its connotations of comprehensive truth. It doesnt help tgat a lot of people here, when they observe something which doesnt fit their model, play it down and suggest it is to an anomaly, or isn't in the right circumstances or something. Nor does it help that the one thing TRP prizes above all else is logic. (See u/NightwingTRP below. Incidentally, he claims that women are typically less intelligent than men. Assuming you use IQ (and that's by no means a perfect way of defining "intelligence", then the average woman is actually the same as the man, but with more very stupid and very clever men.)

What TRP is, is a series of statements and assumptions about men and about women, and their interaction, which, from observing the world, appear to be more accurate than those which have been posited elsewhere, especially those of mainstream liberal society. When it comes to human behaviour, of course it makes sense to draw on evolutionary psychology to a degree in order to explain why men and women choose the partners they do. But theories like that are just simplified models which even their originators admit are of limited relevance today. To say, "women prefer stronger males because at the time our brains evolved it was stronger males who mated with them" is a gross oversimplification. (The premise could be true but the reasoning false and vice versa). Scientists (and I'm one of them) actually don't understand many things. Take hormones for example. We have some idea of how they work, but we haven't fully understood them. The main reason is determining how multiple non static phemomena interact with each other. That's the key word, interaction. The ways in which hormones interact with each other, or different parts of the brain etc.

I recommend purpillpilldebate. Some interesting discussions there.

My main criticism of TRP, by the way is that it does not apply its cynicism about women to men as well. Most men possess as many of the negative traits they ascribe to women.

[–]2FatStig 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lolwut? Trp blames men for the state of society. Not women. Women are women. Men should beer men. Most modern men act like women.

[–]Primemale 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

My main criticism of TRP, by the way is that it does not apply its cynicism about women to men as well. Most men possess as many of the negative traits they ascribe to women.

I'm with you on this one, also the fact that we have our own set of inherent traits some of which could be viewed as potentially negative, certainly from the opposite sex. Although to be fair, TRP is fighting back against a system which favours female sexual imperative, because that is the priority it is not touched upon as much.

[–]lost_2_apathy[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Great points. Never gave that sub a look, but I might now.

[–]lost_2_apathy[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Also, what you're mentioning is people try to come up with their own theories with a bad EvoPsych foundation. I'd say that's why the discipline has so much criticism. It's actually where Roosh and some people on this sub fail.

While there are some anecdotal observations within the PUA community and links to EP studies. People can't start creating theories without supportive empirical research.

If you're reading this and you use evolutionary reasoning without knowing the research, I recommend you find the related articles (not a link summarizing an article) and educate yourself. Just as important is knowing the misconceptions and critiques of the field.

[–]jx234 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Couldn't agree more. The problem of collecting empirical data appears to be the biggest one.

[–]studiov34 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel like this proves that a platitude like AWALT is fatally flawed.

[–]chewy_dragee 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

This post is awesome, but unfortunately you are not going to sway the ones already caught in that mindset.

You can even see them in the post replies already.

[–]1NightwingTRP 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

Most of the criticism levelled at TRP has no logical basis or follows any causal links based in principle or fact. It starts from the idea of women being equals and then goes from there. This is poor debating because you base your arguments on an assumption... one in this case which can be challenged. Women are typically physically weaker, typically less intelligent and typically far less emotionally stable. - I fail to see how this is equal.

The second problem tends to come from those who criticise TRP being incapable of understanding nuance or the subtlety of similar yet mutually exclusive points. i.e. they can't reconcile the ideas that believing women are inferior, and also believing they deserve similar basic rights to men such as not being tortured, not being violently assaulted, not being robbed, not being defrauded etc etc (just list laws that apply for the protection of both men and women here.)

That's a fairly broad basis to dismiss a large proportion of the nonsense which disparages TRP. Due to this, there is a fairly large proportion of the basic material on TRP which you should question and evaluate more privately because we've already done that. (It is also why you're told to read the sidebar first before contributing.) If that was not the case, we would be constantly inundated with topics that questioned the basis of TRP (poorly) and it would flood/waste the space of the frontpage.

I've posted on how Debating and Discussion as a man will promote intellectual growth. There may be mere echo chamber guys here... but there's also some independent thinkers. It's down to you to decide who is who.

[–]lost_2_apathy[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well said. This is what I was getting at.

"4."Understanding the strengths of opposing viewpoints and appreciating them is essential," ...especially if you want to completely undermine the opponent's viewpoints"

[–]Skuncan_Diles -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're contradicting your original post. Critical thinking means questioning all viewpoints, including your own.

[–]lost_2_apathy[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Questioning myself sounds exhaustively circular.

However, if you are talking about reassessing or a systematic evaluation of one's actions, I agree.

Like I quoted above. It's so important to have an open mind. You don't need to accept what is being said, but understand it so you can have a stronger foundation for what you believe in.

[–]chewy_dragee -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

That link on debating is sweet reading.

[–]DreamBoatGuy25 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

A big part of the problem with any debate is that people argue past one another. Take your example of starting with the idea that women are equal. Equality is rarely defined well in these types of debates. Equal in rights? I think most can agree that they should have equal rights? Equal biologically? Obviously not.

As a scientist one of things I find the silliest about almost any of these debates, particular those related to sex and gender, is that they are very rarely being done by hard scientists. It's always some political writer or at most someone with a degree from the humanities department. I can tell you that "critical theory" is considered a joke by academics in behavioral science.

[–]1favours_of_the_moon -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

RoK can be like a "Bonzai Kitten" parody site. I like it though. LOL

[–]uRstewpid 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You always need to take a break and try to pretend that the other side of the argument is true. Refusing to entertain an opposing idea just makes you closed-minded.

[–]48LawsOfFlour 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I jump on some of the anti-TRP subs every now and then. It's good to get a look at other perspectives, especially the ones that are just "anti" to whatever you are.

Aside from "TRPER BAD" the subs that offer a different perspective than ours aren't very consistent in their messages. It's just a jumble of sarcasm, "witty" comments, and shitposts. TRP has its bad moments echo-chamber-wise but on the whole the community is actually very consistent, self-policing and thoughtful. The message doesn't change from month to month, or from minute to minute.

[–]Pathfinder24 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The red pill is most definitely an echo chamber. There are occasionally mod posts about how debate and criticism are banned.

Kinda undermines claims to legitimacy.