4
5

[meta]Counter-Strike: Global Offensive's Language Problem (rockpapershotgun.com)

Panduhh0KillAllTheThings が 投稿

全 102 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]ERRATICWOOKIEdrunkencow 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

From this entire thread what I'm getting is that if you do not uphold the values of chivalry and be a white knight this community "needs" then you will be bullied by the administrative team until you do so.

I've been with this community for some years now and I have never once felt like I was ever offended by anything, oppressed, or out of place until now. A few examples people are throwing up there of people lightheartedly joking around with each other saying "what's up my bigot" have been between groups who have been playing together for a LONG time and do not say those things to other people. New people to the community especially those who join teamspeak for the first time are always welcomed with open arms in these groups. I see someone who I play with quite a bit getting ganged up on by admins for wording his opinion? I honestly feel out of place in a community where admins can do that to someone.

By the way, why even post this article? The author obviously has just started playing video games and had a few bad experiences. I have 400 hours into CS and I HARDLY ever experience the toxicity this person has experienced. Bad language is a problem in every game, not just CS:GO. I do have to commend our admin staff on CS:GO for being very good at keeping toxic players out of our PURE servers considering we are in the TOP 100.

TL;DR Everyone honestly needs to get off their high horse and start dealing with REAL problems, not berating people for not upholding your moral obligations.

[–]Panduhh0KillAllTheThings[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

I've been with this community for some years now and I have never once felt like I was ever offended by anything, oppressed, or out of place until now. A few examples people are throwing up there of people lightheartedly joking around with each other saying "what's up my bigot" have been between groups who have been playing together for a LONG time and do not say those things to other people.

Let me guess, you're a straight white college age guy? Of course you have never once felt offended, oppressed or out of place. If people are throwing up examples of "what's up my bigot" it rather obviously isn't just between groups that have been playing together for a LONG time.

I posted this article because toxicity IS a problem in PURE space and I am trying to show that James is not the only person who would like a toxin free space. It is not at all about the CS:GO community, either PURE's or the global one, it's about the fight against toxic behavior from 'anonymous' online gamers who don't seem to realize there are very real humans in the game with them.

So tell me, what are these very REAL problems we should be dealing with instead of making PURE a safe, fun and happy place for all gamers, not just the young white guys?

[–]ERRATICWOOKIEdrunkencow 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Let me guess, you're a straight white college age guy? Of course you have never once felt offended, oppressed or out of place. If people are throwing up examples of "what's up my bigot" it rather obviously isn't just between groups that have been playing together for a LONG time.

First off, I am a 26 year old bisexual asian male who graduated college three years ago and I am currently working full time. I grew up in Los Angeles in a predominately black neighborhood. In the middle of high school, I moved down to a predominately white school where my family and I were not welcomed. I've lived my entire life experiencing prejudice and discrimination so I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. I know the difference between someone being a bigot and someone joking the fuck around.

You of all people are stereotyping? That's toxic in itself.

[–]Panduhh0KillAllTheThings[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

And this is why I don't gamble. Apologies for assuming you were part of the majority party here. Out of curiosity, about how many people do you game with regularly at PURE who are not straight white guys your age?

Perhaps because you are part of the "In" crowd, you have a better sense of who is kidding and who is not but newcomers to PURE definitely are not feeling the love when they come to visit us. I'm also not suggesting you (and by extension, your group of friends) are part of the toxic problem here but it does exist, apparently among people who consider themselves PURE members and/or volunteers based on comments/rumors both here in this thread and elsewhere. I personally am not aware of anyone who is a regular and toxic so all I have to go on are rumors. I am more concerned with the regulars allowing toxicity in the presence of newcomers whether joking or not. That's not being social or sociable.

[–]maddiethebaddie 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

From this entire thread what I'm getting is that if you do not uphold the values of chivalry and be a white knight this community "needs" then you will be bullied by the administrative team until you do so.

lol, calling PURE white knight's and chivalrous for rules that they have followed since DAY 1 is pretty ridiculous. Nobody is bulling you, dude, if you don't follow the rules you simply cannot be a part of this community, that's it. That's common sense, if you join a community you obey their rules, simple as that.

I see someone who I play with quite a bit getting ganged up on by admins for wording his opinion? I honestly feel out of place in a community where admins can do that to someone.

Idk this RSM dude, my view is that he made a dumb joke which flew over some people's heads and then the discussion got heated, way too heated but I don't think they were ganging up on him. There were some people that don't agree with admins siding with him. I personally think admins are doing a heck of a great job.

why even post this article? The author obviously has just started playing video games and had a few bad experiences. I have 400 hours into CS and I HARDLY ever experience the toxicity this person has experienced. Bad language is a problem in every game, not just CS:GO

You are lucky, some of us always experience harassment when we play vidya, that's why I joined PURE to feel safe and not get stupid comments when I play.

start dealing with REAL problems

Which are?

Not berating people for not upholding your moral obligations

lmao, again, PURE had rules that have been on the "no bigots allowed/no bigoted language" side forever, the admins are not trying to uphold people to their "moral obligations" they are simply volunteering their time to uphold PURE's rules and getting attacked all the time.

Based admins, please forgive us for giving you a headache. I'm not kissing ass or being sarcastic, I feel like threads like these probably stress them out and make them question why they do this shit. I know I would feel like that.

[–]eonymiaeonymia 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I accidentally wandered into the comment section. Would not recommend.

[–]blackhawk74 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

0/10 would not comments again

3edgy6me

[–]rsm241rsm241 3ポイント4ポイント  (94子コメント)

Pack up the csgo server boys! Looks like people can get offended in a video game

[–]ERRATICWOOKIEdrunkencow 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's okay rsm I understand you

[–]rsm241rsm241 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks FAM <3 but I can feel the calm before the Downvote storm. Best get out of there while you still have time.

[–]Panduhh0KillAllTheThings[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

In a slightly more positive light, perhaps PURE can offer some refuge from antisocial manboys? After all, that is what James set out to do in the beginning.

[–]MerylStreeepMeanMuggin 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think that this post was made with that intent at all. It's not about people taking offense to a specific game, it's about looking at why people act like asshats over the internet.

I guess it's no surprise that I found the article interesting. I think that it's good to keep thinking about the nature of toxicity in gaming, and how PURE has been and hopefully will continue to be a refuge from that. Obviously, CS:GO is getting more and more popular in PURE, which is great, so obviously our CS:GO volunteers are doing a good job.

[–]xxredvirusxx 1ポイント2ポイント  (18子コメント)

It's a competitive game, people are going to get angry and say offensive things. its part of online competitive games. I think people should just stop being so damn sensitive.

[–]Brogdansleither 8ポイント9ポイント  (12子コメント)

One of the reasons we exist as a community is to allow for spaces that people can have that hardcore (or casual) gameplay experience with everyone playing the objective but WITHOUT people resorting to offensive things.

I seriously doubt that there's much time/room for offensive speech during a proper esports match where relaying time critical information is essential (though I make no claims to know what happens between/after rounds).

[–]The_War_Machine 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Don't comment on things you don't know anything about. Personal attacks and trash talking is part of any esport/sport. At lans outside of some really mean things you can literally scream across the room/stage at your opponents to put them on tilt. That being said, the only reason shit talk isn't in the game coms is because it is being broadcasted to thousands of people online. If you watch any POV streams I promise every professional csgo player would be banned from PURE for things said in the heat of the moment.

edit Most spectators of CSGO games also have chat disabled.

[–]Panduhh0KillAllTheThings[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

The fact that it was allowed to happen doesn't make it right. Cheating is also way beyond commonplace in eSports, specifically CS:GO, but is hardly tolerated.

The NHL used to be all about the fighting (sometimes to the exclusion of actual puck action) but it managed to put the kibosh on that when it cut into team owner revenue.

Perhaps Valve hasn't devoted enough effort into insisting on good sportsmanship in their eSports because it hasn't affected their bottom line yet. That does not mean PURE can't lead the charge from lower down the food chain to bring clean play and sportsmanship to CS:GO and all the other games we support.

Our solution to the toxic online behavior is never going to be to set voice enable = 0. While in the PURE domain, toxic players better learn to mute their mics themselves and rage at their basement walls instead of raging at real humans or they face permament bans.

[–]The_War_Machine 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Like I said somewhere, then it is best to stick to minigame/fun/surf servers. You will run out of people to play with in a competitive environment. But valve has competitive play built in without the need for third party servers.

[–]Brogdansleither 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Which brings me back to my point that we exist to create a space where people can play these games without this sort of content. As you said, if people acted that way here they would be banned in short order.

[–][削除されました]  (7子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]Brogdansleither 7ポイント8ポイント  (5子コメント)

    But I don't have to, I joined a community where it isn't allowed!

    [–]MerylStreeepMeanMuggin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Shakespeare.

    [–]MerylStreeepMeanMuggin 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Yeah exactly, and I can call you a douchebag or an asshat as friendly banter in game, but any sort of language that can trigger someone or trigger aggressiveness towards someone in terms of their race, religion, gender, sexuality, it's not fucking OK. It just isn't. No one deserves to feel marginalized, hated, or disrespected.

    Why is empathy so fucking hard for people? It must be difficult because I don't think that people would be struggling so much to understand others who are "different" from them if it were easy.

    The most important thing to realize is that this is not an attack. It is a discussion. It is so taboo these days, for example, to be called racist. People will go to the ends of the earth to explain how they are not. However, this isn't a personal discussion. It is a discussion about the toxicity of language in gaming...a very broad and objective subject.

    Anyone who is taking this so personally, I quite frankly have to wonder why they are being so defensive.

    [–]The_War_Machine 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    You do realize anything can be a "trigger" right. Including being called a "douchebag or an asshat as friendly banter in game". I agree that no one should feel bullied ever. I also think that at some point you have to learn how to deal with people saying mean things to you. Such as those people that you call douchebags and asshats.

    [–]Brogdansleither 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The whole goal of this grand experiment of ours is to fight back against the notion that people saying mean shit to you is an inherent part of the online gaming experience. Is it a lofty goal? Sure. Is it one a lot of people believe is one worth trying to fight for? You bet.

    [–]MerylStreeepMeanMuggin 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I will reiterate your declarative sentence with my own- I do realize that. Im not speaking on my personal experience. I have referenced toxic themes that we have fallen into. It's about creating a community. Good communities have a strong sense of solidarity. If people don't like the way a place is run, why would they keep coming back to it especially since there are other good alternatives? Honestly, PURE is just a place to game. If there are people who don't like this environment and feel it limits them or censors them too much, then why not find or start a new place that better fits their needs?

    [–]pringalz 0ポイント1ポイント  (69子コメント)

    That's a comforting statement coming from a former admin!

    Maybe in the future you could try and add something a bit more constructive. If you didn't believe in the community values, why did you become an admin?

    [–]The_War_Machine 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

    I guess the mandatory stick up the ass is still in effect at pure. Blasting someone for a sarcastic comment isn't very PURE-like.

    [–]Panduhh0KillAllTheThings[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

    It can be very difficult to detect sarcasm in plain text from people you don't know. It took several comments from /u/rsm41 before I understood his point.

    [–]The_War_Machine 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

    True. I guess inference is subjective so me saying I could tell it was sarcastic instantly is irrelevant. Even when I have played with rsm maybe once in the entire time I have been with pure.

    [–]rsm241rsm241 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This is why I like you war. You can spot a joke.

    [–]Panduhh0KillAllTheThings[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I probably have far more in common with rsm's father than I do you or rsm so you have the advantage of context.

    [–]The_War_Machine 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Haha true. And I give better rallying speeches to win Carrier mode ;)

    [–]Panduhh0KillAllTheThings[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Oh, snap. I had forgotten about your rallies! Now I haz a sad because you don't do those any more. I hope you can make it to the BF3 anniversary event this weekend and bless us with one more speech right when it's most needed.

    [–]rsm241rsm241 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (61子コメント)

    I had to believe in the community values to become an admin?

    [–]Panduhh0KillAllTheThings[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (13子コメント)

    I'm really hoping I'm misunderstanding the point you are trying to make here. Are you seriously suggesting the PURE community values have no place in CS:GO ( and by extension, all online gaming)?

    I thought James had made it clear the difference between a potty mouth and bullying/personal attacks. You can have one without the other.

    [–]rsm241rsm241 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (12子コメント)

    The point I was making is that not all the admins/volunteers really believe in the community values. I'm not saying that they don't uphold them though. Just behind closed door people are much different

    [–]Panduhh0KillAllTheThings[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

    OK, that is what not where I thought you were going. (Thank goodness)

    I hope you find this attitude is changing for the better. There are at least a few of us volunteers (including the Core team) who are making the effort to make PURE the nicer place James envisioned those 3 short years ago.

    However, the admins can't be the only folks in the community holding everyone's feet to the fire. There just aren't enough of them. What it's going to take, and I think this article from RPS shows that, is an effort by the whole community to call out these toxic people and let them know that sort of behavior is not acceptable in PURE space. If friendly advice/peer pressure doesn't work, then the Ban Hammer is primed and ready to fall.

    [–]The_War_Machine 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Hate to break it to you. This article will do almost nothing to impact the style of banter in CSGO. voice_enable 0 and play on. You won't change anything by getting your jimmies rustled by some dude across the country saying mean things to you.

    [–]Panduhh0KillAllTheThings[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    See, that's just it. I don't have to get my jimmies rustled. I just do my part in creating a safe, happy place for gamers far away from the toxic children, like James set out to do. I'll be damned if I let anyone be toxic at any time on any PURE server, regardless of what the rest of that game community is like.

    [–]The_War_Machine 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I guess if you want to do that with CSGO stay far away from any sort of competitive aspect of it. Which seems to be the case with having a mini games server and surf server.

    [–]FullMetaI -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Well said Panda.

    [–]Brogdansleither 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

    If any of the volunteers don't believe in the community values I'd urge them to speak to myself or records so that we can get them offboarded right away.

    [–]MerylStreeepMeanMuggin 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

    I hate to be "that person", but I highly doubt anyone who doesn't believe in our values would volunteer themselves as someone who doesn't believe in PURE's values. Part of the problem is intertwined with the fact that most people (bc it's hard and fucking uncomfortable) won't own up to their own prejudices. Who wants to say, "hey PURE core, I'm an asshole."?

    Nope...people are going to keep justifying and be defensive of their bad behavior and blame it on something else like being overly PC or I just don't even know what. I stopped listening to all the excuses. And I am in no way saying I am not a part of this. Everyone needs to be accountable and re-evaluate wtf they are projecting into the world.

    Like I said or maybe just alluded to in Brogdan's post months earlier about toxicity in PURE- I don't want to be associated, promote, or be a part of a community that presents itself as one thing and doesn't hold up it's end of the bargain. It's easy to write these comments, but it is harder to to tell people that they are fucking assholes who are bad for the community.

    I get it. I am being OVERLY honest. However, what bothers me more is seeing the few girls on here get really messed with CONSTANTLY. It's always little innuendos here and there that are not funny banter, but aggressive.

    Let's just break it down with one thing (bc god forbid we address things that PURE will have a hard time handling like race or people who are LGBTQ)- THIS. 1 in 3 women. Your mom, your sister, your aunts, your grandmothers...1 in 3, and that is just women, so do you really want to make all those stupid sexual jokes about rape and sex in game? I mean that is just ONE thing that people just can't get their head around. And then people think what does that have to do with them? Well the constant sex and rape jokes, comments about how a girl talks, how a girl plays the game, focusing more on what she says in chat than any other dude in the channel. And still I write this, and I know almost everyone who does this crap is going to say to themselves that they are not "that guy".

    Edit: I struggle to choose what kind of article to link. Who would read a lengthy academic PDF here? I made it easier.

    [–]FullMetaI -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I agree, It's not right and we should be doing something about it. We are an open community and having those kind of jokes/talk is not right. As for your first part, I'm pretty sure we have had plenty who have been volunteering who dont care about the values. Not naming anyone but I'm sure we have

    [–]Panduhh0KillAllTheThings[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    WE are doing something about it, that's why I keep bringing up related posts. Why aren't you including yourself?

    It really doesn't help the conversation by throwing out wild accusations without substantiation. Either you know exactly who isn't drinking the Kool-aid or just keep quiet. We don't need people looking around for suspects. We have no Gestapo.

    [–]FullMetaI -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

    And I am doing just that, Keeping Quiet. I don't really have beef with anyone here, Sure I could name a few I feel sometimes take things a bit far, but as I said no beef. I don't plan on doing anything but be a good guy and be kind and enjoy pure with everyone else.

    [–]pringalz -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Agreed.

    [–]FullMetaI -1ポイント0ポイント  (46子コメント)

    No. But you have to promote them while being in an admin volunteer role.

    [–]Panduhh0KillAllTheThings[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (42子コメント)

    WTF? Does "believe" mean something I'm not aware of? Because if you don't believe in our values you can just GTFO. We no longer have the time or inclination to put up with people not grownup enough to follow one simple rule: Don't be a Dick.

    [–]blackhawk74 1ポイント2ポイント  (19子コメント)

    Because if you don't believe in our values you can just GTFO.

    No. This is so wrong. You may not 100% believe in our values, but as long as you uphold them then this is ok. Just because you don't believe in certain values/rules, doesn't make you a toxic/bad person.

    You seem to not realize there is a difference between people who don't believe in certain rules and people who do not actually follow said rules.

    [–]Vaprzbacchus101 4ポイント5ポイント  (11子コメント)

    Just because you don't believe in certain values/rules, doesn't make you a toxic/bad person.

    The non-gameplay Pure rules are succinct and only ask that you be considerate of others and not be a bigot. If you don't believe in either of those things, you are pretty much the very definition of a bad/toxic person.

    [–]blackhawk74 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

    As a black male I use the n word to reference some of my friends in a positive light, but I cannot say it in Pure space because it is "bigoted". I obey the rules and don't say it, but I don't think that should be against the rules.

    So because this person doesn't believe in that rule that makes them a bad/toxic person? Absolutely not.

    [–]Panduhh0KillAllTheThings[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    As has already been demonstrated in this thread, nuance is very difficult to achieve in plain text, even more so in the heat of battle. While I would agree that the use of "mah nigga" in the context of Denzel Washington's iconic turn of phrasing should not offend anyone, it is far easier for us to draw the line at zero tolerance than at some threshold of gray where an admin has to make a judgement call. After all, none of us can really tell through your game character what ethnic/gender/social group you belong to (nor should it matter. Perhaps it's fine in your cultural group to use certain offensive words as a way to 'own' them and give them less power. But it's not a universal norm so we have to disallow all offensive words or phrasing all the time.

    [–]blackhawk74 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Right, which I totally understand and support, I have no problem with this at all.

    The issue I have with the part I quoted from your post is that you say that so much as disliking a rule, regardless of obeying it or not, makes you not welcome at PURE. This school of thought is 100% untrue and unacceptable.

    At the end of the day this conversation is over, everyone continues on doing what they were doing and nothing changes. Why you are trying to persecute someone based upon their beliefs/thoughts, and not their actions, is beyond me.

    [–]Vaprzbacchus101 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

    There are two rules, be considerate and don't be a bigot. If you don't believe in either, YOU ARE A BAD PERSON. This is pretty straight forward be a decent fucking human being shit.

    [–]blackhawk74 -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

    I honestly hope you're joking, I really can't tell.

    "You're a bad person if you dont believe and think exactly the way I do."

    If this isn't just like the book 1984, then I don't know what is. Here come the Thought Police!

    [–]TopPimpCheezuserimer2021 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I sincerely hope your comment was a fucking joke. If not, I pity you and have learned quite a lot about you in your comment.

    [–]Panduhh0KillAllTheThings[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

    I'm afraid I'm not following you. Which rule(s) is so onerous you can't be fully behind James's vision "to provide socially rewarding, community-oriented gaming experiences to the gaming public"?

    Right now, PURE is not all that nice a place because it is full of well off white college age males who often seem to believe certain less-than-welcoming behaviors are OK even with folks who do not share the same cultural norms. Strangely, even old, straight, white guys (like me), much less women, most persons of color, or alternative lifestyle don't quite see things through the same rose-tinted glasses as you.

    People do not have to be BFFs to be a PURE member. Part of being a social person is being sociable. You (and all the rest of us) only exist when you are in PURE space. What you do outside of PURE space is your own business but it is very difficult to live 2 lives (ask any adulterer).

    While I'm personally perfectly fine with James's vision, I am not quite as satisfied with the way PURE states our case (as it is essentially 3 years old and we were a far different group back then). Several of us have a very strong desire to update our basic philosophy and statement of the rules and values to be clearer and more concise but have lacked the proper turn of phrasing and time to do the job justice.

    If you can make a valid case for revision or removal of rules that are inappropriate, I will promise they will be changed today.

    [–]Cbroph 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Right now, PURE is not all that nice a place because it is full of well off white college age males who often seem to believe certain less-than-welcoming behaviors are OK even with folks who do not share the same cultural norms.

    As a straight white college student, I feel like it's offensive that you lay the blame solely people of my demographic. The internet is the internet. Everyone is equal when they are just a name in a game. If people take advantage of that and spew racist, misogynistic shit towards others then, yeah, fuck em but please dont assume every shitstain you encounter online is a white guy because that not always the case and it's really stereotypical to think so.

    [–]Panduhh0KillAllTheThings[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Well, no it isn't. First off, video gaming isn't the Internet. Video gaming is not nearly as diverse as the whole Internet. Second of all, PURE is not nearly as diverse as you seem to assume it is. We would certainly like it to be but the less-represented among us feel there is some room for improvement, specifically from your demographic. Now of course most of the young white males of PURE are perfectly fine gentlemen but the folks we are banning are most certainly from your demographic (for the most part). If you are not one of those guys who believe it's OK to spew hate speech (and I never suggested you are) then you and I have no problems at all.

    Minorities tend to not be so free with the hate speech online because in real life that shit will get you dead or seriously injured. Many of them have seen the results of hate speech with their own eyes instead of vicariously living through avatars in some fantasy world viewed through a glowing screen. Well off young white guys do not yet have such life experiences and tend to have gigantic senses of entitlement (although that particular fault is not exclusive to them). Especially the ones who can afford to put hundreds if not thousands of hours into any one video game.

    I have been around twenty-something white guys for decades and I've been one, I know exactly how they think and act. I've personally met heroes who went to real war and died for their country and their values and I've met plenty more shitstains who don't even deserve to be called humans. I have also been to parts of the world where the best day for the local people is not even as good as the worst day you will ever have.

    PURE is a place for the good people of whatever persuasion because gaming isn't about color, gender or any other thing you could possibly be born with or without.

    I am so vocal about this issue because many of today's 20 year olds are still just like the 20 year olds of the 80s: spoiled, racist, misogynist, obnoxious and otherwise hateful. I happen to be in a place where I can do something about that and if I have to bruise a few egos, so be it. This is the 21st century, there is no Dixie and it's time some other folks had some peace and happiness.

    [–]rsm241rsm241 -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

    So it seems that you have a real issue with the idea of the "20 year old". Isn't this exactly what pure isn't about? Why should the "20 year olds" of pure be subjected to your hateful attacks? Just becuase you had some issues with them in the past? Do you think that becuase they are white they will not be offended like other races?

    [–]FullMetaI 0ポイント1ポイント  (21子コメント)

    Sounds like its about time we actully start doing something about toxicty here. It's like no matter what we are trying to do, we cannot please anyone.

    Our volunteers give their free time to keep pure up and going and if our members cannot use Pure the way it should be and uphold our values, they need to go.

    Plenty of us have been here from the start and would like to see Pure as a kind and respectful place to play our games, simple.

    [–]rsm241rsm241 0ポイント1ポイント  (20子コメント)

    Well put. I come to PURE to not be judged in the way I think and game. I wish others felt the same

    [–]MerylStreeepMeanMuggin 4ポイント5ポイント  (19子コメント)

    Well put I agree, but that means that you agree that PURE should be getting rid of anyone who does NOT BELIEVE in the community values and rules.

    I don't want PURE to judge people. It needs to be a safe place for everyone. It's not coddling people. It's allowing people to be who they are regardless of gender, race, sexuality, etc. It's one thing to completely police people into being so PC, but there has to be some sort of line. It is hard for people to understand where others are coming from when they do not have to experience that kind of prejudice themselves. PURE was built on a fundamental principle of acceptance...and that does not just mean what people think is "your average dude gamer attitude". I can list you a number of statistics, but the bottom line is that I shouldn't have to. If people don't want to follow PURE rules, then they are not forced to do so, but you can't do it here. Plain and simple. I don't want to be mean, and I would gladly continue this conversation with anyone who wants to have it.

    [–]The_War_Machine 2ポイント3ポイント  (12子コメント)

    So wait. If I follow all the pure rules and guidelines but don't fully believe in the values and just want a nice place to game...I should be banned? So...we can't say bigoted language but we can ban you for following our rules but not believing in them. Got it.

    [–]MerylStreeepMeanMuggin 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I don't have a say in who stays and who goes. I do have a say in whether I stay or go like everyone else. Why would you want to even be here if you don't believe in the values of the community? There are plenty of other nice places to game out there. It's like you are saying you can only vacation in NY or LA, but in your heart you really want to go to Chicago. No one is forcing you to be here. It doesn't make any sense.

    [–]affixaffixqc 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

    If I follow all the pure rules and guidelines but don't fully believe in the values and just want a nice place to game...I should be banned?

    Meryl was pretty explicit with her words:

    If people don't want to follow PURE rules, then they are not forced to do so, but you can't do it here. Plain and simple.

    In practice, we've had community members who like to pretend that they're following the rules, but in fact express bigoted behavior by using masked language (e.g. the "what's up my bigot" thing that flared up and was squashed). Those same users told themselves and others that they are following our rules even if they don't believe in them, when in fact that wasn't the case.

    If a community member has bigoted values that are truly closeted, there's no way we would know so discussing whether it should be allowed is irrelevant. If we do know - then they're not closeted values, and probably fall under a rule 1 violation ("general disregard for others’ experience").

    [–]Panduhh0KillAllTheThings[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Maybe the rules and values aren't clear enough. I'll boil them down to 4 words: Don't Be A Dick. It's not a matter of precisely following to the exact letter the few rules and guidelines we've set up to explain that philosphy, we just expect the community to behave like adults who know when it's OK to cuss and when to not personally attack fellow gamers, who are in fact real people and not some dumb insensitive NPC made of ones and zeroes.

    If you (in the broad sense, not you personally) can't be that adult, well there are plenty of other places on the World Wide Web where you can hang out with fellow Neaderthals. I hear XBox Live is a great place to meet up.

    [–]FullMetaI -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Noooo. As long as you follow the rules your golden. If you follow them but dont believe them. Your golden still.

    If you dont follow our rules id love for that person to go bue bye.

    [–]MerylStreeepMeanMuggin 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

    I mean technically you are correct. Unless someone violates the rules, should action be taken. However, personally, I'd like to game with like minded people. It makes for a much more rewarding experience. I would hope that our volunteers at least believe in our values.

    [–]rsm241rsm241 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Well it's a good thing I'm no longer an admin! I might have gotten removed for something I said

    [–]FullMetaI -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm just saying. But yeah prob would have been. Hopefully people dont get removed from pure for not upholding vaules but would be nice to see more doing it.

    [–]maddiethebaddie 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

    TL;DR OF WHAT'S HAPPENING

    some users: ADMINS HAVE A STICK UP THEIR ASSES HOW COME WE HAVE TO WATCH OUR LANGUAGE EVERYONE IS SO SENSITIVE

    admins: um... well u can curse just dont be a bigot racist sexist dick

    some users: UGH THE WORST

    admins: pls go somewhere else then?? there's like so many communities

    some users: PURE IS HITLER SJW TUMBLR FUCK U

    admins: FUCK U TOO FITE ME IRL BIGOT

    the rest of us: http://bit.ly/1owbIOj

    [–]MerylStreeepMeanMuggin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Bahahahahahahhahahaha I love you.

    [–]pringalz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Pretty accurate summary.

    Edit: downvote <333333

    [–]FullMetaI -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Good read. I've never understood how and why people rage. I rage at RNG in games but dying and getting my ass handed to me helps me improve. I suck at csgo but i keep trying to improve.