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Non-Muslims please answer (self.exmuslim)

savagehogan が 投稿

Why is it that you as non-muslims (yes I am generalizing and stereotyping, mainly Americans because this has been my experience in my life) do not know how to treat a muslim as an individual. You have to constantly bring up the subject of religion, politics, culture, nationality in EVERY CONVERSATION.

And on top of that as non-muslims you are very critical and judgemental of Muslims. It is as if when you meet a muslim and/or become 'friends' with a muslim you have to constantly bring up religion and ask questions out of so called 'curiosity' but what you are doing is 'throwing jabs' and making a mockery out of our religion and you don't realize or you don't care.

As a Muslim we are very passionate about our religion and what we believe and are encouraged to 'argue better' with non-muslims and encourage dialogue with anyone that wants to discuss the faith. But at the same time this is emotionally draining and is just outright bullshit. I realize as Muslims we are judgmental towards other Muslims harshly but I will deal with Muslims later, for now Non-Muslims explain yourselves!

Here are examples of a typical conversation with a non-muslim after saying Hello in America:

  • "So, why do you pray to a big black box."

  • "So you know your Prophet was a pedophile right, Do all of you marry 9 year old girls and fuck them?"

  • "Why is the punishment for an apostate death if there is no compulsion in religion" Wawawawaa (90% of have no clue what apostate even means. rejecting hadith doesn't make you an apostate you dummies. Wow. You can't even label your dumbasses properly.)

  • "Why can't women marry non-muslims and have to marry muslim men only"

  • "So how do you feel about ISIS, are you going to join? Do you like watching them kill muslim men, women, and children and displaying Hollywood HD quality videos online for the world to see. How do you feel about that being a Muslim and all because all 1.2 billion of you are the same and think the same and agree on all of this, right"

  • "You know you aren't a good muslim unless you kill non-muslims, you muslims don't even understand your own religion"

  • (An American Christian Black man told me this one, this one was the greatest I have ever heard but it also tells me how non-muslims think because all of you think the same way, apparently) "So why do you Moslems walk around frustrated all of the time, I will tell you why it is because you are all sexually frustrated ahahaha" (This was my favorite one)

  • "So how do you feel about 9/11, Muslims killed over 2000 Americans why did you guys do this why does your Quran say to kill non-muslims or infidels"

  • "You don't pray but you fast but you go out with girls LOL, you aren't allowed to do that, you are Muslim"

  • "So you are a muslim but you drink alcohol but you don't eat pork hahahah...that's weird and I don't get that'.

  • "So why do your people blow themselves up and encourage suicide bombing"

  • "I realize ISIS is extreme and they don't represent you but but at the same time your religion tells you to kill 'infidels".

  • "I don't understand if you are not allowed to date how are you supposed to get married. And if you are married immediately you assume it was an arranged marriage"

  • "Aren't you supposed to have a big long beard".

  • "Why do Muslim women have to cover but I know this Muslim girl that doesn't cover, is she going to hell" "Why doesn't she cover'.

  • "So you believe all non-muslims are going to hell, hahahaha and you believe that muslims go to hell but eventually go to heaven LOL"

  • "Why don't you wear shorts is it because of your religion". "Why can't you go out or why don't you want to go to the movies, is it against your religion"

  • "Why are you Muslims always angry and think everything is a conspiracy"

  • "It is interesting to know you as a Muslim can talk about sports and normal everday subjects in life" Yes someone educated said this to me. Like they were amazed I am a human being.

I can go on for days, I actually have better examples than this but it is unbelievably frustrating to me. Maybe I shouldn't give a shit. "Oh wait you are Muslim, you aren't allowed to curse, why did you just curse" Someone explain this to me. Since we as Muslims are constantly walking around having to represent 1.2 billion people as if we are a cult and are not allowed to be individuals let me know turn it around on you non-muslims all 5.8 billion of you or however many you are. I will start with "You Muslims are too damn sensitive and need to get over yourselves you people don't have a sense of humor and take yourselves way to seriously" Your turn...

EDIT: Formatting and added more examples of Non-Muslims idiocy and you ex Muslims have more serious issues than Muslims. Wow. Keep up the good work everyone. Continue the Islam bashing and your stupid lame arguments and petty hadith and quranic verse cut and pasting you do so you can feel better and keep explaining your wonderful journey on how you became a non-muslim. It is so inspiring. LMAO!!

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[–]gandalfmoth 14ポイント15ポイント  (3子コメント)

do not know how to treat a muslim as an individual. You have to constantly bring up the subject or religion, politics, culture, nationality

Generally because membership in Islam does include a specific set of views regarding religion (Islam) politics (caliphate), law (shariah), culture (how to dress, speak, what to eat) and nationality (one United ummah), even economics and sexual behaviour have been already prescribed in Islam. So when you call yourself a Muslim, you exist within that context and the same goes for basically every religion.

[–]savagehogan[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I agree. I don't do that (and neither do most Muslims in America) to Christians, Atheists, Agnostics, Nothings, Ex-Muslims, Satanists, Whatevers, etc. I treat them, and so do most muslims, as individuals. I know many Christians and each time I see them I don't put them on trial for what another Christian did wrong or tell them well you religion says to 'kill everything breathing'. That's just one example but it is amazing to me that all non-muslims do this shit to muslims it is mind-boggling. And on top of that everyone is an expert in islam because they watched the news or they read a book or they have a muslim friend and they feel free to criticize and run their mouth constantly and laugh about it like we are a joke. I exist within the context that I am a Muslim but I am also an individual and I don't represent 1.2 billion people. You see how absurd I sound generalizing all non-muslims because it is absurd but no one sees it that way. And don't tell me people do it out of respect for Muslims, because they don't.

I have another question for you since you are a non-muslim, so how do I respond to people (which are all non-muslims in america) that do this without coming across as combative and sensitive and full of myself. I am being serious because this shit has gotten out of hand. Yes I am Muslim and no I don't need you to tell me that I can't curse because I am Muslim.

[–]let_me_lurk 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Short term: ignore them. When I talk to muslims and they try to bring me back into islam I just ignore that part of the conversation while acknowledging and engaging in the part of the it we do share.

Long term: disassociate yourself from those who don't share your values. Why would you voluntarily associate with someone who doesn't share any of your virtues? If I find KKK rhetoric offensive, I refrain from attending their meetings and socializing with their members. But if I voluntarily attend their rallies and then complain about the environment, I can't hold them accountable without seeming (and being) crazy.

[–]Adoomeh_ 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

You need to understand, people come on this thread because they have no other avenue. They love their Muslim families and friends but don't hold the same beliefs, and they are afraid that by truly laying out their hearts, they will be persecuted against and in a lot of cases, disowned by their families and/or loved ones. I am willing to concede however that many people claim they have a problem with Islam and not Muslims however they actually have a problem with Both. It's a complicated matter because from the eyes of an ex Muslim, you'll look at some of the ideas or rituals that Muslims adhere too and you'll subsequently hold enmity towards it. To differentiate that enmity between the belief and the person who holds it is sometimes a hard thing especially when that person is manifesting it in physical and or lively form. In this sense, ex Muslims actually hold more right to expression than others because they live with it day in and day out. As for the questioning and the consistent talk about religion, well why are you mad about that. I want answers and how else am I going to get them if I don't ask and challenge. Isn't that what learning all about?

[–]savagehogan[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I get the first part of your paragraph because you used to be Muslim and so you have an understanding but for a non-muslim who knows nothing more than what he saw on CNN and/or Fox News or whatever news or what someone told him/her or what they read in a book somewhere or because they knew a muslim or have a muslim friend they are all of a sudden experts and come across as superior to me and want to dictate to me how I should or shouldn't do something or I am not worthy to be around you because you are non-muslim now I have a problem with that.

You say you want to ask questions, that is fine, but to do it out of mockery and to make fun of that is not asking question that is just wanting to be stupid. If people ask because they are genuinely curious and want to understand then that is a different story. I don't go around asking non-muslims or accuse them or treat them any differently I treat them as individuals and I don't judge them based on what someone else has done. Why the fuck is that so hard to understand?

[–]DieGodDieRecovering Catholic 8ポイント9ポイント  (32子コメント)

Because Islam is your life. That's the whole point of it. Utter and complete submission to Allah. Tell you what to eat, begging 5 times a day, how to dress, how to wash, devotion to Allah over family, everything. What else are we going to talk about? Everything I do is haram. I'm bound for eternal hellfire and your ideology hates fun.

[–]NoLiePlz 9ポイント10ポイント  (13子コメント)

Insha'allah Allah plz Forgive me for being an ignoramus, but you might just become my best friend... lets go:

You do not know how to treat a muslim as an individual

Why should we treat you as an individual if 1.2 billion of you all have the same beliefs and are indoctrinated into the religion of your parents and most of the decisions 'you' make are not made on your own.

subject or of religion, politics, culture, nationality in every conversation

You do know a conversation is a two way thing, you can change the flow on a convo at anytime.

You ask questions out of so called 'curiosity'

Some questions are never answered, but Islam teaches that is has the answer to everything, and it cannot prove it.

As a Muslim we are very passionate about our religion and what we believe

Do you really believe or were you told to believe / found some comfort after a hard time in life?

Do you believe that allah has already predetermined who is going to heaven or hell? And if so, why should we bother try, if we're going to hell?

Next Time Use Bullet points for you list of 'questions'

  • You don't pray but you fast but you go out with girls LOL, you aren't allowed to do that, you are Muslim**
    • Were just trying to help you to become a better muslim, save yourself don't worry about us Infidels - Qur'an 5:51
  • You are not allowed to date how are you supposed to get married?
    • In my eyes marriage means nothing in Islam, its not out of love. A Muslims man can marry the infidel (jew/Christian) but a muslims female cannot marry a Jew/Christian. What is love if a religion prevents it? In islam your only purpose it to worship god and then get all the good stuff in heaven after.
  • Aren't you supposed to have a big long beard
    • Your prophet Muhammad (PBUH) had a beard and all the muslims I have asked say Muhammad is the perfect example, so they follow him, written in your Sunnah of the hadiths
  • Why do Muslim women have to cover; I know this Muslim that doesn't is she going to hell?
    • Why should she cover up? Before Islam it seems the Arabian peninsula were hatred towards a;; women, they used to kill young females, muhammad wife Aisha asked Mo' if she was a dog/donkey, Mo' said women were deficiency in intelligence etc.. etc.. Since islam brought a bunch of 'rights' to women, why does she have to hide?
  • why don't you want to go to the movies
    • Why dont you? humans are social beings, but you're not allowed to watch movies which will lead you astray.

[–]RewindtheParadox -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

But formatting is a pain in the ass

[–]savagehogan[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (11子コメント)

I will take a mental note for bullet points next time. I appreciate your response but you used to be a muslim so you aren't helping me at all because you actually have somewhat of a understanding of our religion and so you are angry or you do this out of spite or you get off on being an ex-muslim or you think it is cool, I don't know and I don't care.

But the issue is Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Nothings, Agnostics, Atheists, Whatevers all have a creed, a religion they follow a God they worship or one they don't worship or one they can't prove or disprove or whatever the cool saying these days are. I don't knock them or judge them as a whole, that is stupid, well as a Muslim to us it is stupid.

We are unified in our core beliefs but it is ok for me to be an individual. Each time I am around a non-muslim I always have to hear ignorant, stupid comments over and over and it doesn't matter if they are white, black, brown or yellow or red or whatever they believe in or not believe in.

If I change the conversation the non-muslim has a pre-conceived notion in their mind that me being a muslim I don't have the capability to carry a conversation outside of religion so we are totally dismissed. When Muslims are joking with Non-muslims it is so awkward. I mean yes as a Muslim we aren't allowed to be crude but neither are Christians and Jews but they do it anyways AND THEY ARE NOT JUDGED FOR IT! It is ok but Muslims we are from another planet, we can't possibly get it and vice versa, lets say a Muslim is crude with his jokes and jokes like a non-muslim he is looked at as an idiot or stupid or like he shouldn't be doing that. DOUBLE STANDARD. If I sit a certain way 'is that part of your religion'. The obsession non-muslims have with ridiculing muslims every chance (not that muslims are any better with each other but that is another story) they get is disgusting to me and no matter what we say or do it is DISMISSED!

[–]NoLiePlz 2ポイント3ポイント  (10子コメント)

you used to be a muslim

What if I told you I am a Muslim... and Im just here to hear both sides of the story.

We are unified in our core beliefs

What are the core beliefs of Islam? Do you mean the 5 pillars of Islam or the 6 pillars of imam (faith)

Each time I am around a non-muslim I always have to hear ignorant, stupid comments over and over

Which is why Islam has its own community, we cant go wandering into other peoples social groups and expect them to accept us in a second. Think about it as punk-rock highschool kids and the football jocks, everyone is different and they stick to their own groups.

If I change the conversation the non-muslim has a pre-conceived notion in their mind that ... I don't have the capability to carry a conversation outside of religion

Why not teach them about islam instead of being annoyed by their questions and comments. You'd be surprised at how many may actually listen, or they might shit the hell up and never ask you anything about you, muslims or the religion of Islam.

Its easy to avoid all these things if you just stick within your own muslim community, but then again muslims themselves will criticise muslims when they do certain things that are not 'islamic'. Birds of a feather flock together.

[–]savagehogan[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (9子コメント)

I do teach them and I do associate with non-muslims but to constantly have to be put on trial over and over especially with someone I know is just stupid and then it just becomes a mockery. Stop being silly and defending stupidity. I also agree Muslims are disgusting with other Muslims, we aren't perfect.

[–]NoLiePlz 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

Just like you said...

we aren't perfect.

and we muslims/non-muslims will never be. Allah knows best, allah is perfect

[–]savagehogan[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (7子コメント)

I agree Allah is perfect we are not we sin but we are supposed to keep thinking of Allah all the time and return to him or we are lost forever.

[–]NoLiePlz 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Allow me to open my Qur'an

  • 6:39: Allah sends astray whom He wills and He guides on the Straight Path whom He wills.
  • 10:25: Allah invites to the Home of Peace and guides whom He wills to a straight path
  • 14:4: Allah sends astray [thereby] whom He wills and guides whom He wills
  • 16:37; Allah guides not those whom He makes to go astray (or none can guide him whom Allah sends astray)
  • 16:93; He causes to stray whom He wills and guides whom He wills
  • 28:56; Indeed, [O Muhammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills .

we are supposed to keep thinking of Allah all the time and return to him or we are lost forever

If Allah wants us to think about him, it is his will. If we are lost it is Allah's will, for Allah is the all wise and all mighty. If Allah wants us to return to him he will make it happen, Allah knows and has planned our death and he sends to hell and heaven whom he pleases.

Remember Allah knows best, Allahu Akbar!

[–]savagehogan[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Allow me to ignore you.

[–]savagehogan[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

This has nothing to do with my OP but I will entertain your so wonderful quranic verses you displayed for us to 'prove' that you aren't in control or you don't have freewill and that it is Allah's will and there isn't anything you and I can do about it. Well it sucks to be you then LOL.
Allah guides who he wills and leads astray who he wills. Absolutely correct.

[–]NoLiePlz 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

3 hours ago you were ignoring me, im sorry to see you return to me.

but anyways may Allah guide or lead either one (or both) of us astray.

وداعا

[–]savagehogan[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

You have no life. You are keeping track of how long I take to respond to you oh Holy One. Wow you claim Muslims to be so sensitive but you have major issues dude. You should be kissing my feet for me to even respond to you jackass. May you burn in hell for eternity! You would deserve it not because God led you astray but because you wanted him to lead you astray dumb ass. You get it now or is that too much for you to handle. No one wants to take accountability for their actions "Well only God's will can make it happen so I might as well do whatever it is I want because yada yada yada whatever bullshit you come up with. All this does for you and anyone else that thinks like you is put you in HELL. Sucks to be you!

[–]Atheizm 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

I like how you're quick to paint non-Muslims with the same brush.

[–]savagehogan[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes. But it's ok to generalize 1.2 billion people but yet when I generalize nonmuslims I am wrong and should know better.

[–]savagehogan[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yes. But it's ok to generalize 1.2 billion people but yet when I generalize nonmuslims I am wrong and should know better.

[–]Atheizm 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yes, the amazing depth of your self indulgence is an effective shield to any self-awareness. Congratulations on your epic hypocritical whinge.

[–]savagehogan[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Ok. Thanks

[–]Atheizm 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

You're welcome.

[–]savagehogan[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

So what were we talking about again. You seem to know.

[–]the_king_of_all 10ポイント11ポイント  (70子コメント)

yh but your religion says to kill us

[–]blablahfish 6ポイント7ポイント  (12子コメント)

A polemic against generalisation by use of generalisations. Interesting technique...

You claim that all Muslims should be treated as individuals, to which I agree; generalisations are bad. But by the way you are handling it, you are confirming that all Muslims are the same, legitimising generalisations.

And that is one of the major issues in Islam as I see it, this disregard of differences among people. The way I see it, everybody in Islam is basically forced to be the same, there is little to no room for different interpretations or expressions of faith. This is reinforced the continuous comments you see by (sunni) Muslims claiming that only they are "real" Muslims, and everybody who does not belong to their particular taste of Islam, is not a Muslim. Shia, Ahmadi, Alawites, Alevi, Sufi, liberal and free-spirited Muslims. All are considered to be "not-Muslim." If Muslims keep presenting themselves as a single block without diversity, then Muslims will be treated as a single entity. Christianity is fractured with many, many different denominations, to the point that the word "Christian" is basicly meaningless. As such, Christians are not adressed as a single group. If you wish Muslims to be treated as individuals, then you should encourage individualism in Islam, encourage plurality of believes and diversity of opinion in Islam. Although this might be antithetical to Sunni doctrine.

In this thread I see you continuously reinforce the notion that Muslims form one monolitic block, and you don't seem to realise it:

We cant pick and choose what we want in our religion like it is a buffet.

Its all about whats best for the people and God gave us that over 1400 years ago and completed his favor upon us. When man wants to change things for worldly benefit then society deteriorates and there is just pain and suffering on earth.

I don't knock them or judge them as a whole, that is stupid, well as a Muslim to us it is stupid.

We are unified in our core beliefs but it is ok for me to be an individual.

We collectively as Muslims are the same in alot of things but at the same time we as Muslims dont represent 1.2 billion people and it is ok for us to be individuals as long as it doesnt go against the Quran and Hadith.

Allah is right and whoever diesnt follow him is wrong.

That is one of the other problems I see in the Islamic world; a lack of self reflection. The problem always lies outside of Islam, outside of Muslims and outside of Islamic society. There never seems to be a critical look at the self, and how it may be a cause of many of the things which are wrong. Nor can there hardly be, because everybody is forced to conform.

My diagnosis of the Islamic world is that it suffers from a bad case of groupthink, and as soon as people start to behave like individuals and start respecting differences among them, a lot of the issues facing Muslims and the Islamic world will be solved. And I am hopeful that the internet will cause different opinions to be expressed more rapidly, while the sectarian war in the Middle East will cause people to question their own believes.

EDIT: Formatting

[–]savagehogan[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (11子コメント)

I agree we dont self reflect or we feel we shouldnt but it isnt the fault of the religion because there are set rules in place and yes it is a way of life. But for a nonmuslim to tell me or try explain to me like they are an expert in our religion they can kiss my ass. The religion is perfect. We as Muslims, well that is another story.

[–]BadAsh87 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

This actually cuts to the heart of the issue of Islamic terrorism. No, most Muslims abhor ISIS and Jihadism. But the discouragement if not outright suppression of critical thought and debate in nearly every Muslim society throughout the world indirectly supports extremism. The few who tried to apply human reasoning/critical thinking to Islamic doctrine (the Mutazilites, Ibn Rushd, Sayyed Ahmed Khan, Muhammed Abdu, Ali Abdelraziq,Hamid Abu Zaid, Faraj Fuda...i could go on) are either shunned, condemned, silenced, or outright killed. Do you not think that's a problem? I mean, how do you expect the Muslim world to get back on its feet in terms of science/economic development if it penalizes asking deep/big questions and engaging in critical discussion???

[–]savagehogan[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am asking why nonmuslims say ifnorant shit to muslims. I didnt ask to discuss the issues with the muslims especially with nonmuslims. I will discuss those matters when i choose with muslims. Just stick to answering my OP or keep talking to yourself and pretend to sound so intelligent.

[–]blablahfish 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

If you don't critically examine your religion, how can you be sure that your religion is perfect? Self-reflection and critical thinking should be applies to all aspects of life, including your religion.

I'll just leave you with these two quotes by Thomas Jefferson:

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.

Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

[–]savagehogan[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (7子コメント)

We are encouraged to examine our religion and to accept it with logic and reason. But at the same time just because all of a sudden, for example accepts homosexuality, we as Muslims must reflect on our religion and make changes. You are too funny.

[–]PolymathyLivesOn 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

How can it be considered perfect if you have to make changes?

[–]savagehogan[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dude can you answer my OP. I didnt come here for you to make yourself feel better as to why you are an apostate. Go cry to your parents and talk to them instead of wasting my time here on Reddit.

[–]blablahfish -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Then by what logic do you judge your religion to be perfect?

[–]VelvetVelour999 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Islam is perfect because the Quran says Islam is perfect. Can't you see how flawless that logic is?

/s

[–]montifex 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Heh, in terms of formal logic, a tautology is a valid argument. Basically, if you accept the truth of the Quran as a premise (this is obviously the fishy first step), and the Quran confirms the truth of the Quran, then you have an argument that is formally valid, although not necessarily sound (i.e. possessing true premises). Q-->Q, or "Quran is true, therefore Quran is true" is a valid argument, in the strict sense, abiding by the rules of formal logic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)

[–]blablahfish -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think accepting a tautology is evidence of critical thought and self reflection though.

[–]savagehogan[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are a bitter bitch and cunt I might add. You haven't proven shit to me about anything about my religion. Go back to sucking dick or ass or whatever it is you do for money. You are a pathetic cunt.

[–]Antidickhead 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes, you're the one, the winner. You've come here onto our ground and told us all these things we've never heard before. My god, how stupid we've been and we must all rush to the nearest mosque and convert. Thank god you have come along, along with the thousands before you who also didn't make sense. I'm guessing you're 14 and like all teenagers, you know everything. Dude? Honestly? You're a dime a dozen, you ain't telling us anything we haven't heard before, and refuted eloquently. Now go back to school and come back when you're a big boy.

[–]savagehogan[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I asked why do non-muslims say stupid shit to muslims and do not know how to treat us as individuals. As soon as I asked this question just about everyone here wanted to show off their knowledge or lack thereof to me as to why they are not Muslim anymore. It is so funny. I didnt come here to tell you shit. You people took it amongst yourselves to turn this into 'This is why I left Islam...'. Give me a break, please shut up. You try to tell me things or teach me things as if you are creative in your arguments. Hahahaa. You dont want to be Muslims I dont care. What I care about is, now that you are a nonmuslim ANSWER MY OP.

[–]VelvetVelour999 4ポイント5ポイント  (10子コメント)

"You don't pray but you fast but you go out with girls LOL, you aren't allowed to do that, you are Muslim" "So you are a muslim but you drink alcohol but you don't eat pork hahahah...that's weird and I don't get that

Of course people are going to say something when they see a religious person who breaks the rules of their religion whenever it's convenient for them. What did you expect? No one likes a hypocrite. You have no right to complain about that.

[–]EtriganZ 5ポイント6ポイント  (35子コメント)

You guys are too sensitive. You kill people over cartoons and other trivial shit. Also, I'm a former Muslim. So I do know that you guys are over sensitive because that's what I was like.

[–]PolymathyLivesOn 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

While you may have experienced a lot of people who saw your behavior and instantly demanded to know how that agrees with Islam, it doesnt represent the majority of non-muslims. Most people just dont care about another person's religion and I agree that constantly being asked to cross-verify one's religion to their actions is a bit insensitive and rude. But it is still a valid and fair question.

[–]FokkoBoy 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Just say: ''I will seek for forgiveness afterwards, so it's ok''

[–]dronemoderator 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't know, maybe because I'm startled when I see a shapeless black form the size of a human moving towards me?

[–]BlckHawks2015 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's Muslims who are always expecting me to act a certain way due to my name and ethnic origin. I personally avoid religious topics

However idiotic and irrational ideas do need to be challenged at the intellectual level, it was only when someone reached out to me and challenged my beliefs that I began to question.

I personally also came to despise and loath the Islamic community. The constant bullshit and lies, constant victim narrative, kuffar this and kuffar that while desperately trying to immigrate to their country.

So fuck them, I won't go seeking a debate but if someone wants to I'm more than happy to put them in their place.

[–]savagehogan[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Thats my point I dont being up the subject of religion they do. Just like the asshats in this subreddit brought up trying to convince me why they left Islam, like I give a shit LOL. You are now a nonmuslim so answer my OP as to why you bring up stupid shit to a nonmuslim.

[–]BlckHawks2015 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Not sure what you mean by "stupid shit" but again nothing wrong with a healthy debate if both parties wish to engage. As mentioned previously it was only when someone challenged me on certain aspects of what I believe that I began to question. Even though I may have disagreed with them at that time the seeds of doubt were planted.

[–]savagehogan[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Stupid shit meaning "How do you feel about 9/11" or "Why do you people support ISIS or do you agree with ISIS" like I had anything to do with ISIS or 9/11 as if I am not a human being but just some being taking up space for non-muslims to just ridicule and mock. It isn't my fault non-muslims dont have a mind of their own.

[–]BlckHawks2015 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well you have to admit Islam/Muslims are at the center of things right now, people are just curious. The Middle East is imploding, Isis is committing all sorts of horrors, daily terrorist attacks across Islamic world etc.. it's natural for people to be curious.

Look at it from their perspective.

[–]savagehogan[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The perspective for me is I AM NOT DOING THAT SHIT. JUST LIKE WHEN CATHOLIC PRIESTS FUCK LITTLE BOYS NOT ALL CATHOLICS ARE BEING PUT ON TRIAL FOR IT. THERE ARE JUST SOME BAD APPLES. DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?!@

[–]IHateTheLaw666 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why are you posting this as if the members of this sub are Muslims, we are not.

[–]savagehogan[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I posted this with the words 'Non Muslims' answer this question. If you are a nonmuslim then answer the question. Why is that so hard?

[–]BaconSheikh 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

WE don't know how to treat YOU? Are you kidding me?

Are you kidding me?

Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:

Narrated 'Ikrima:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

This is one of your sacred texts. Muslims have told me to my face that in an islamic state, I should be killed. An islamic state that they admit to supporting. These people are my friends, family members, acquaintances, teachers, and everybody in between.

You're crying about what? What?! Criticism? Criticism of an ideology to which you subscribe. I wish criticism was the only thing I got from muslims.

[–]exapologetica 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow, good to see James Joyce finally joined Reddit.

[–]rem0man 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's part of your jihad, your test from Allah. If you want answers why this shit is happening to you go ask him, he's the one making it happen to you after all.

[–]savagehogan[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You as a nonmuslim need to answer my question or shut the fuck up.

[–]Allah-Of-Reddit -1ポイント0ポイント  (13子コメント)

Islam is very political, it is not their fault that they ask you out of curiosity I think they want your honest answer, give them an honest answer. Or like a lot of the Muslims do, just lie to kuffar.

I wouldn't haggle you with any of these questions because I know all of them already. I don't bink ex Muslims ask these things. They normally ask "DO YOU REALIZE HOW ANGRY I AM RIGHT NOOOOOOOOWWW?" (jk by the way)

[–]Antidickhead -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Huh? Doesn't make sense

[–]savagehogan[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (11子コメント)

Of course it isnt the nonmuslims fault because they couldnt possibly have a mind of their own. They are so innocent with their dumb ignorant comments. And as a Muslim, I am supposed to feel inferior to you and allow you to shit on me. I dont and refuse to have to explain and speak for 1.2 billion people. You are proving my point dumbass.

[–]Allah-Of-Reddit 0ポイント1ポイント  (10子コメント)

Well that is life, you'll be mocked and questioned a lot, no matter who you are.

Be glad you're not living in a Muslim country where you'll be beaten if you have a different opinion (your whole drink alcohol thing can get you to jail) do you think that is fair? Now what do you think an "apostate" is treated like? We're treated like absolute garbage, that is why most of us choose to hide because you people treat us like garbage.(if we're treated at all most of the time we're just killed or tortured until we "revert" to Islam) But enough about that, that is obviously not as bad as you guys over there with people asking you questions and trying to Socialise with you.

Why do you think they're inferior yo you? You just said that they don't have a mind of their own. Do they all follow the same God? the same ideology? The same agenda?

What point did I prove?

[–]savagehogan[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ok. Thanks

[–]savagehogan[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

Nonmuslims are worst than muslims when it comes to being judgemental.

[–]Allah-Of-Reddit 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

Have you been to any Muslim country?

[–]savagehogan[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Stop whining about living in a muslim country. Muslims in the gulf areas suck, fuck, drink, do drugs so shut the fuck up you little bitch. Stop crying me a river about how hard it is to live in a muslim country. You are a bitch. Nothing more

[–]Allah-Of-Reddit 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Why do you cry and bitch about living in a Western country then? You don't see how you're contradicting yourself?

[–]savagehogan[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

I am upset at how non-muslims with no knowledge judge me as an individual. Without ever talking to me or knowing me. I am not contradicting myself. You keep changing the subject and brag about your knowledge of the religion which is great but means nothing to me because you just use it for ill gain or whatever the fuck you use it for is beyond me. I like living in the West but I can also complain about how non-muslims can be so fucking stupid and ignorant also. Is that ok with you or am I contradicting myself?

[–]Allah-Of-Reddit 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I am upset at how non-muslims with no knowledge judge me as an individual. Without ever talking to me or knowing me.

For the short time I talked to you, you have done the exact same thing.

You grouped all non Muslims together, you grouped all ex Muslims together, you grouped all Jews together, you even grouped all Muslims together (1.6 billion people thing, most of them will think you're a kafir for drinking)

So why do you think people need to treat you as an individual when you yourself are not treating people like individuals?

"عين بالعين، السن بالسن، والبادي اظلم"

"Eye for an eye teeth for a teeth and the argument starter is the more evil "

[–]savagehogan[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I never said I drink asshat. Well the norm in this world is to generalize so who the fuck am I to change that pattern fuck it. Since all muslims are generlaized I might as well generalize everyone and everything else. You know how stupid this sounds when you say it is ok to generalize all muslims but as soon as I make one generalization I am an idiot. And yes Fuck most jews who do that in Palestine you ignaromous fool. You and your gulf countries provide more money and weapons to Israel than the United States. You are muslim or exmuslim or whatever you are ALL FUCKING MURDERERS!!!!

[–]comptrol 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Because islam has strict rules and it is a group religion rather than a personal one that built upon solely the connection between god and the believer. You represent this muslim group shaped by these strict rules , which you are proud of to death . and once you break these rules yet still claim that how superior islam is you are just making fun of yourself. And this is the reason nonmuslims ask about your lifestyle contradictory with your beliefs.

Think this way, I market samsung smartphones as the ultimate, the best ever ones to you. And at the same time I use iphone, when you see me using iphone how would you react to me ? You would state this contradictory situation, right? These nonmuslims are doing the exact same thing by asking about your lifestyle that doesn't overlap with the one quran/muslims order.

[–]savagehogan[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

I don't market shit. I meet a nonmuslim and tell them my name and then they atart eith the bullshit. I dont bring up the fact I am Muslim. They are all of a sudden intrigued in our religion and say stupid shit like you just did. You have no point and you are confirming mine.

[–]comptrol 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

But that is part of your dawah. You must invite people islam and represent it in your life so that others can convert to islam. Whether you agree on this or not dawah, preaching islam, is part of islam and everbody knows this, therefore they keep asking these questions to you when your life contradicts with the way islam tells.

Learn about your dawah dude:

A dā‘ī is thus a person who invites people to understand Islam through dialogue, not unlike the Islamic equivalent of a missionary inviting people to the faith, prayer and manner of Islamic life.[1]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawah

[–]HelperBot_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawah

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[–]savagehogan[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

You are a nonmuslim who is proving my point. I don t have to do anything. I am not a hypocrite or as you people love throwing this word around I am not an apostate. You still feel you need to convince me as to why you left Islam. I dont care. Hahahaha. What I care about is nonmuslims need to stop with the stupid ignorant comments and stop thinking you can tell muslims what to do. This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Christians and Jews dont have this problem. They are judged individually. Why is that so hard for you to understand? I dont care about your stupid journey on becoming a nonmuslim. You are not anything special. Shut up and answer my question.

[–]Allah-Of-Reddit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I dont care. Hahahaha.

If you don't care then why should others care?