全 62 件のコメント

[–]HuWeiliu 33ポイント34ポイント  (1子コメント)

This really should be the future of Space Engineers

[–]DarkMaskElite 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly a mega server would be cool like no mans sky

[–]arsenal3185 15ポイント16ポイント  (6子コメント)

Ah, yes, we are entering into EVE Engineers.

[–]CaptianRed 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll take two, for here please.

[–]Lawsoffire 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

inb4 sever campers that have ships with interdictor bubbles on server jump

[–]MonsterBlash 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Modified server, you can go there, but you can never leave.

[–][deleted] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

LONG LIVE THEMITANNI

[–]barnesandnobles 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

So an architecture like Second Life where different areas of space are hosted by different servers in a linked universe?

Sounds awesome to me.

[–]MikeC2103 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, without the pyramid scheme.. :P

[–]Shadowedcross 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

Can't help but picture a giant fleet of battleships appearing out of nowhere and attacking everything.

[–]Lurking4Answers 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sounds good to me. Who wouldn't be happy to see that shit? Yeah, sure, you spent four hours building that station, but those guys who blew it up just did you a service by giving you one of the coolest experiences you've had with this game.

[–]hgwazI want trains 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Giant, hull penetrating dildo missile of death

[–]RepublikenNext Year on Olympus Mons 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Man, I would just surrender and offer all my supplies just to be one of their grunts.

[–]Bobert_FicoOh man oh man oh man... yes! No! Yes? 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

With the multiplayer code being rewritten from the ground up, it would certainly be possible to implement. I'd suggest posting it on the forums, as Keen doesn't seem to check the subreddit much.

[–]MikeC2103 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

This could probably be done with mods with the right support from keen. There where Minecraft mods that essentially did the same thing.

I'd love to see this implemented with the stargate mod. So there are specific places you would have to do this. Not just open to travel back and forth to and from anywhere on the servers.

[–]MonsterBlash 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

And there's a lot of things in place which can help. There's already a format for the blueprints, and a way to paste ships into a game.
They'd need to be able to inject the same amount of cargo, that's what would be missing.

[–]MikeC2103 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

All it would really take would be to allow copying player/ship info files between servers. Which I assume would be admin setup so it would only work between specific servers.

[–]MonsterBlash 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

You can already copy paste ships, but the content of the containers don't follow, if I'm not mistaken.

[–]MikeC2103 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think it used to in creative. Not sure if it still does though. So I don't really think that will be much of hurdle for this idea.

SE Toolbox already has a format that saves inventory for instance.

[–]MonsterBlash 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wasn't aware about the SE Toolbox saving inventory.
If it's in there, then most parts must be in place!

[–]MikeC2103 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Honestly, I think the biggest hurdle for this would be not having the updated multiplayer implemented. Well besides getting someone to actually code it. :P

Edit: They just added something to help with this, but it isn't in the patch notes. :)

Post

[–]Hunter62610[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lol.

I have predicted the future.

[–]Bobert_FicoOh man oh man oh man... yes! No! Yes? 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

With today's update, mods can transfer you between servers - it can be done right now.

[–]Lawsoffire 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

i totally support this

[–]mr-octo_squidJump drive technician 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

From todays update log. "- Allows mods to move clients to different multiplayer servers. - ( MyAPIGateway.Multiplayer.JoinServer() )"

[–]cha0tic1 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

the devs should pop in just to say "your welcome"

[–]homingconcretedonkey 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

I can't see why this would be hard to implement.

Though if Keen are not going to be hosting servers then it should be configurable.

I imagine somebody might host 3 space engineer servers and make them all jumpable between each other but won't want other people's ships from other servers jumping in because it might not be balanced.

[–]Cronyx 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you set up clusters of linked servers, they would of course all have to be running the same mod package, otherwise jumping from one to another word eat parts of your ship.

[–]Ragejay 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've brought op's idea in the past and I fully support the idea. But one person brought up to me. How are you supposed to work mods in?

[–]homingconcretedonkey 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

As someone else has mentioned, the servers would all have to have the same mods.

Either that or it warns you that your ship will be missing pieces.

[–]VerzaljAlphaspace engineer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Personally, I love the idea.

[–]4aa1a602 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is feasibly possible, and I would suggest servers operate on a shared whitelist system so a trusted (as in not pasted from creative) universe can be constructed.

[–]anachronisticUranium 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Someone actually made a mod already that does that. There was Even a post working on it a little while ago.

[–]The_TinkerSubspace Coalition 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

My post, actually. :) The dream is alive and well, but the modding support and free time to implement it were not. Maybe this weekend...

[–]MikeC2103 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

They actually just implemented something to help do this but isn't in the patch notes. :)

Post

[–]APPLE_NUGGETSMore ductape! 1ポイント2ポイント  (13子コメント)

Holy crap yes, I would love this. Queue random invasions for people to defend against and this would bring true faction wars.

[–]creepigDo you wanna build a spaceship? 1ポイント2ポイント  (12子コメント)

Or just griefing.

[–]Cronyx -2ポイント-1ポイント  (11子コメント)

No one ever seems to be able to provide a non-subjective explanation for how "griefing" is different from "non-consensual PVP". Or, specifically, different from "being on the receiving end of non-consensual PVP." The very term, in common usage, seems like a manifestation of special pleading.

[–]MikeC2103 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Griefing only really became a thing for me after dealing with Minecraft.

It wasn't the random PvP. It was spawn camping or the destruction of hours of work, for no other purpose than to piss someone off and destroy their fun.

At least in SE you can do a bit more to defend yourself without making everything indestructible.

[–]creepigDo you wanna build a spaceship? 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

Griefing is a special case of non-consensual PVP, in which you're taking cheap shots for the sole purpose of being a dick. For example, using the respawn ships as kinetic missiles repeatedly is griefing. It is 100% about intent.

Edit: to nip it in the bud, since I can tell that this is going to come up, there is no golden standard that requires that we define griefing objectively in order to chastise it. Law, especially criminal law, regularly factors in an individuals intent when judging their actions.

[–]Ragejay 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just make sure you always have ammo in your turrets :) As a professional on griefology. Griefers like to give up quickly if they know they can't destroy their intended target. They simply migrate to the next server and repeat the cycle.

[–]Cronyx -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

The difference here is that, short of suicide, you can't "stop playing" life. A game, everyone opts in to participate. In a game like Eve Online, everyone opts in to participate in a brutal, Ayn Rand objectivist space opera of Megacorps, money, and non-consensual PVP of the most brutal caliber. There is no such thing as "griefing" in Eve Online. But you can stop playing at any time if you stop having fun. You don't, however, get to decree that the rules should be changed in order to facilitate your fun.

Playing To Win is the most distilled, fundamental, non-homogenized, elemental goal at the core of any "game" that includes success or fail conditions. And as such, the penultimate goal of any game that includes hard success or fail conditions is to win that game. To that end, in an economic or resource driven game, such as Space Engineers, I win by maintaining a monopoly of force projection. It's rare for any faction or individual to ever achieve this, but it's the reason for gathering resources, building weapons, flying to that first asteroid, taking the first step inside your starter ship, or even connecting to a multiplayer server in the first place.

If I am not cheating, then the only alternative must be that I am playing within the scope of the game mechanics. The game mechanics might be unfair, but that unfairness becomes a part of the "meta" of the game, a separate level of understanding, and why there are different tiers of characters in Smash Brothers, or Street Fighter.

In perusing the goal of a monopoly of force projection, without stepping over the line into cheating (not the same as understanding and incorporating game mechanics into your strategy, which is defined as "meta"), ramming a starting ship into an enemy is instrumental in the intent of "winning the game" or "achieving the success criteria, whilst diminishing the capacity of an opponent from achieving success criteria"

I've never heard an objective, pragmatic argument that would legitimize the term "griefing", to bring it into the realm of Competitive Play, and out of the realm of so called "scrub-speak" and special pleading. But I'm willing to entertain the possibility that such an argument can be made.

Admittedly, this all relates to competitive play. If playing in a creative world, where the object is to "make things that look cool", we're not so much playing a game anymore, because there aren't hard, quantifiable success or fail conditions, but more engaging in an exercise of creating art, using SE as a CAD program of sorts. In that scenario, no one has opted into PVP, and unplugging your computer would be as much griefing as shooting your ship, or ramming into it.

there is no golden standard that requires that we define griefing objectively in order to chastise it

But games, unlike art projects, require rules, often complex rules, in order to function. In computerized games, these are hard coded into the game's "universe". Editing the "universal constants" after play has begun (mods not withstanding, as everyone us using the same ones) are almost always a form of cheating. Operating within those universal constants, utilizing only the tools, resources, and physics contained within the game to achieve your goals are simply manifestations of very complex rules interacting.

It is 100% about intent.

Intent is arguably impossible to prove, because it is a subjective qualia on the other side of the phaneron, beyond the realm of objective and impartial audit. Making claims about intent necessarily includes philosophical assumptions that dilute hypothesis into projection, which disqualifies it from the critique of formal logic. It's also entirely superfluous, when the effects can be objectively measured, and placed into a hierarchical pass/fail framework that includes fail conditions at one extreme, and success conditions on the other. Does the action in question reduce, null-effect, or enhance my position relative to my opponents? Due to special relativity, it doesn't matter if I increase my speed, or reduce yours, I'm still getting ahead, closing the gap between us if behind, or widening it if ahead. That translates into a reduction of your force projection measures as a gain in mine, on the scale of relativity. This means that what you label "griefing", in actuality, fits within a measurable numberline of milestones between failure and success.

Without objective definitions, you are, by true dichotomy, invalidating someone's non-cheating strategy for purely subjective reasons (i.e. you don't "like it".)

[–]creepigDo you wanna build a spaceship? 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

That's a whole lot of tl;dr to defend shitty behavior on the part of shitty people. Are you sure you don't want /r/philosophy or maybe one of the ancap subs?

[–]Cronyx 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

That's a whole lot of tl;dr to defend shitty behavior on the part of shitty people.

That's an awful lot of begging the question, subjective value judgement, and poisoning the well.

One of the tenants of information theory is that truth -- a form of order -- necessarily requires more expenditure of energy than fallacy -- a form of entropy. E.G., Defending the theory of evolution requires more energy as it it has higher information density and produces order vs "lol god did it", which produces more fallacy/fiction/fantasy and is thus more entropic in a closed system of information.

Noam Chomsky touched on this a bit; it's called the problem of concision.

"The US media are alone in that you must meed the condition of concision. You've got to say things between two commercials. Or in six hundred words. And that's a very important fact, because the beauty of concision is that, you know, saying a couple of sentences between two commercials, the beauty of that is that you can only repeat conventional thoughts. Suppose I get up on Nightline, and I'm given whatever it is, two minutes... and I say Kadafi's a terrorist or whatever, the Russians invaded Afghanistan, etc etc, all this sort of stuff, I don't need any evidence. Everybody just nods.

"On the other hand, suppose you say something that just isn't regurgitating conventional pieties. Suppose you say something that's the least bit unexpected. Or controversial. Suppose you say, 'the biggest international terror operations that are known are run out of Washington,' or suppose you say, 'if the Nuremberg Rules were applied, every post-war American President would've been hanged,' or 'the Bible is the most genocidal book in our entire canon,' or 'education is a system of imposed ignorance." Well, people will reasonably, quite reasonably, expect to know what you mean. 'Why did you say that?' 'I never heard that before.' If you said that, you'd better have a reason. Better have some evidence. In fact you'd better have a lot of evidence, because that's a pretty startling comment. You can't give evidence if you're stuck with concision. That's the genius of this structural constraint."

[–]creepigDo you wanna build a spaceship? 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

You know that just spewing the names of logical fallacies and then shoveling on piles of words doesn't mean anything, right? You seem to be trying desperately to win an argument that I'm not participating in.

Stop griefing my inbox bro

[–]Cronyx -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

It means quite a bit, actually. I pointed out the problems in your position, and then I went on to talk about information theory, order vs entropy (or the. "thermodynamics of information" so to speak), and specifically addressed the eloquent critique of "tl;dr" by referencing the problem of concision as outlined by Noam Chomsky. I can not, however, be responsible for the status of your inbox. That's an issue of personal responsibility vis-a-vis notification settings pertaining to replies in a thread you've participated in. I'm merely replying to a public thread in a public venue. You've also been the party to make the positive claim; the onus is on you to defend it, otherwise my counterpoint stands by default.

[–]creepigDo you wanna build a spaceship? 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your pseudo-intellectual braindump didn't actually require an "eloquent critique". You asked about what griefing was, I answered, and then you went off into theories about morality and cheating and game theory, which was not what I was talking about.

I guess you just really, really wanted to have a debate about the morality of griefing, (perhaps to justify your own behaviors to yourself,) but I have not engaged you in that debate, because I choose not to.

Edit: Also, good job at taking my last line completely seriously. Apparently you have replaced your capacity for sarcasm with the capacity for thesaurus usage.

[–]Bobert_FicoOh man oh man oh man... yes! No! Yes? -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

So good strategy is griefing?

[–]NachoDawg| Utilitarian 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

the real limitation is jumping with mod content me thinks

[–]VTKeggerPurr-Kegg Space Industries 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I kind of achieved this in a way that doesn't require multiple servers by creating an unlimited world. I did go ahead and utilize the starter base since it's nice to have something at the point of origin.

I have friends that like to play as well, so we all had different areas that we jumped to. I had a building platform about 258,000 meters from the starter base. There was another building platform that was over 300K in another direction. All we would do to visit these other areas was to jump in with a ship. At the time I was using Phoenix's FTL mod. It made things a lot more fun, because going to check out what someone was building only took a few seconds, instead of having to load into a whole other server.

Since we were all in different areas, the game ran very smoothly as well. Another fun thing that I tried was flying a ship from one location to another. While it took a very long time, it was interesting because I encountered various stations in ships that had been submitted for exploration. This also gave me the idea of having snail mail routes. What I mean here is basically sending ships on an auto pilot route to the various platforms.

  • Long story short, just jump to various locations in an infinite world. Make sure you're hundreds of thousands of meters away from each other and use GPS point to jump to!

[–]AerMarcus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This could be the SE version of SC instances.

[–]RiffyDivine2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We've built a mod like this as a test for starbound, never pushed it out because of issues and CCNA stuff eating up my time. Generally if you can push the "saved" data of a player from one server to the next and just have them auto connect to the server when they "jump" it should load them in fine-ish. But then mods and I can only guess what will be used as a base for location when you come in. Jump gates would be a better idea.

[–]The_TinkerSubspace Coalition 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I made a post about this one like a year ago. https://www.reddit.com/r/spaceengineers/comments/2dmzcr/the_subspace_network_an_alliance_of_dedicated/

I'd love to try giving it a shot still.

[–]LaboratoryOneStuck in Witch Space 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey we got server jumps today

[–]lowrads -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think Keen sidestepped this by implementing projectors instead of attempting something nearly impossible.

[–]Lurking4Answers 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

If LittleBigPlanet 2 and Minecraft did it, so can Space Engineers.

[–]anachronisticUranium 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Someone actually made a mod already that does that. There was Even a post working on it a little while ago.