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MetaYour "Friends". (self.TheRedPill)

leodoestheopposite が 投稿

Summary: Beware who your real friends are, as you change and improve, you'll need to find new friends.

Intro: I will make an assumption here that the vast majority of readers in this sub are like me, not born Red Pill, they were Blue Pill brainwashed, until one day we stumbled across TRP, swallowed it, and now we are all at different degree of RedPill-ness.

This is my story, edited and details changed to protect privacy: as part of my transformation from my pre-TRP to my post-TRP I have made dramatic changes in my career. My new career path is a lot more creative, focusing on doing what I love, and a lot less focusing on making a lot of money. In my prior career I was focused on making a lot of money, the American dream, and I was successful at it. Looking in retrospect it was partially due to my Blue Pill brainwashing, I wanted to be a provider in order to attract women too. And I was successful at that as well, having been married twice, and divorced twice; and as a successful PUA I had my fair share of women, but inevitably most of them saw me as a good provider and that lead to disaster, since it was no my intention; and no matter what I said, that's what they saw in me.

I was always involved in the creative environment and the creative business, but I was always on the business side, and business driven. My circle of friends and business acquaintances have always included a fair amount of creatives, some successful, some mildly successful, and some struggling.

For the past year or so I am a creative myself, and since I entered the field hungry for work, with many years of business experience, and the special Red Pill confidence, in a very short time I have had some successes: clients/sales, awards, local industry recognition; and while is not much, some of my creative "friends" who have been doing this for a long time have never achieved what I have been able to achieve in such a short time, and with no formal creative education (I do have an MBA). I am not bragging, not humblebragging, I consider my results so far modest yet encouraging; linked mostly to my working very hard and working long hours like I used to do when I was working in a corporate office: 60+ hours per week.

None of my "friends" have come to any of my events, very few of them even acknowledge me or my work on social media, mostly is complete radio silence. A few have made comments of their frustration with my mild success. And these are people that throughout the years I have supported in their efforts and endeavors, at times even financially.

On the other hand, new friends have appeared on the scene, distant acquaintances have become close, friends of friends have also become new friends as well as strangers coming out from the left field are now new friends.

And it all make sense. Someone on this sub once said "Your friend will want you to do well, but not better than them" and Tony Robbins says that once you start improving yourself, your friends are not going to like it, since you're elevating yourself, and they like you at the same level where you are now, their level, because they are afraid that they will lose you, and they are also afraid that your success will expose their ineptitude to do anything to improve.

I have witnessed that. There are friends that I have not heard from in months, and while I have made efforts to reach out to them as usual I get the radio silence or the "I'm busy" reply.

Conclusion: as you change and improve, everything will change and improve, including the people that you hang out with, and the people that you call your friends. You have no choice, and it's good that way.

TL;DR: Your friend will want you to do well, but not better than them. As you change on TRP path, you'll find new friends.

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[–]crimson-hound 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm going through something very similar right now. A few years ago, I was fucking around and doing nothing with my life. All I was doing was drinking every night with my "friends" and working my shitty dead end job. Then at one point, I started dating the girl who we all "orbited". I had learned some things on seduction and she was into me because I was always bringing around other girls I was fooling around with.. That's when it first started.

My closest friend who I've hungout with, skated with, made music with since I was 13 or 14 shit-talked me to her because he liked her. Mainly because she used his beta ass for a ride to one of my gigs, fucked me in my band's van, and left with me to come to my place and continue a long night of multiple fucks. Even I thought it was kind of lame of her, but whatever it's not my fault..

This kid went into full nice-guy explosion mode. My girlfriend told me the next time she hungout with him he was yelling at her for ditching him (even though we had a ton of mutual close friends at the gig).. He was putting me down calling me a loser to her, a "mongrel", among other things, all because Mr. Nice Guy™ couldn't get the girl. To be fair too, I even asked him before if he had a thing for her-he denied it. I never go for girls my close friends want to date, even if I know it's not going to work out for them because they're hopelessly beta.. I strongly believe in brotherhood (maybe because I never had a strong family life and friends have always offered me the security families should first (this is how gangs form), but that's another topic).

Later on in life, I continued being a loser with said girlfriend, working crappy jobs that don't pay enough, getting drunk, smoking weed with our friends, and not doing much else. Then one day out of complete boredom I went down to the local community college and decided to sign up for an Illustration class and an intro to Graphic Design class. I had always been really good at drawing from realism to cartoons and I wanted to get better and learn some creative skills with the computer. I had just bought a new mac from a guy in a local studio and it came souped up with adobe creative suite and a wacom tablet so I wanted to learn how to use those programs. I wasn't a good self-starter at the time and got easily distracted on the computer so figured a classroom dynamic would help me get disciplined with it.

Well, I fell in love and excelled in my classes and kept going part-time while I worked until I earned my associate's degree. Along the time span, my girlfriend at the time dumped me and most of my friends were still distancing themselves from me (not because my girlfriend was newly available, she cut contact with all those guys because she realized that none of them actually liked her they just wanted to fuck her… But she also found a new guy right away because she's the branch swinger serial monogamist type.)

Here I am now, I received an awesome scholarship package to go to a top art school in the USA that actually made it cheaper than attending the local state school. One of my friends said he "hated me" in a sort of laugh-ey/jokey way.. But I knew he was serious. For a while, I was always the one initiating contact with them to hangout, hit the bar, or go out somewhere. They never called me.. I started to feel like that loser stage-5 clinger friend who keeps calling you when you find them annoying or something. So I figured "what the hell, we hangout a lot.. I'll give them some space".. It's been 3 weeks now and not a single one of my "best friends" has bothered to even shoot me a text saying "Hey wanna go to this party" "Hey wanna grab lunch" "Hey wanna go out for drinks" "Hey wanna go play disc golf?" Not a single fucking one.

I stopped by the bar we all hang at a couple of weeks ago because I was bored, feeling kind of lonely, and wanted to go out and have a conversation with someone. I saw 2 of my "best friends" hanging out at the bar and neither of them acknowledged me despite me saying "hey guys" they just looked and said "oh hi" and continued on with their own conversation. I felt kind of snubbed, but proceeded to sit with another group of pretty cool, pleasant people and had a pretty good conversation. One of them was a girl my old friend had a crush on, so I decided to play black knight and number close her just out of spite.

Fast forward a few weeks… I don't drink anymore. I'm just not really interested in it. I've been hanging out by myself a lot. I go for swims at a really nice lake in the woods of a local "rich" suburb a lot by myself, I go to the gym 2-3 nights a week after work (I know it's not much by my job is manual labor intensive and I'm honestly beat at the end of the day). I picked up more hours at work to add to my life savings so now I'm working about 60-65 hours per week.

I went for a jog last night and went past the bar I used to hangout at with all my buds and saw them sitting at the bar watching sports and slugging back the beer. Meanwhile, I had just ran 2 miles. I think I made the right decision there. I'm glad that's not my lifestyle anymore. It's like when a cigarette smoker quits smoking and says "man I can't believe I used to do that".

[–]kaleidude 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

For a while, I was always the one initiating contact with them to hang out, hit the bar, or go out somewhere. They never called me... I started to feel like that loser stage-5 clinger friend who keeps calling you when you find them annoying or something. So I figured "what the hell, we hang out a lot... I'll give them some space... It's been 3 weeks now and not a single one of my "best friends" has bothered to even shoot me a text saying "Hey wanna go to this party" "Hey wanna grab lunch" "Hey wanna go out for drinks" "Hey wanna go play disc golf?" Not a single fucking one.

I've been in the same situation. They won't call you back. A few months from now, they may send you some cutesy message "What have you been up to !? :P". Don't answer, they don't deserve neither your time nor attention.

Think about it: how could they help you if they can't help themselves? The weak are afraid to see that hard work pays off... they haate it. It means they can't hamster away their shortcomings anymore. I've made the mistake of giving those "friends" a second chance and I immediately regretted it.

Beta's friendship is often one-sided and opportunistic. They'd throw you under the bus if it meant they could get pussy / power / validation. They try to fill their inner void by getting high from schadenfreude.

You don't need anyone else to enjoy life.

[–]-Quotidian 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Holy shit, the growing pains. There are considerable parallels I can see between your experience and mine--notably, being relegated to the clinger-friend position--and drinking much, much less than everyone else. I'm not valued as a friend so much as respected as an individual by those I'm still in contact with.

I'm unfazed. I'd rather realize my potential alone than celebrate mediocrity with a crowd. Since swallowing the Pill, however, I've noticed something: people might be jealous of your success when they've seen you at the bottom, but if they've only known the improved you they admire it.

Glad you're doing well, Hound. Thanks for posting.

[–]askmrcia -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

e was putting me down calling me a loser to her, a "mongrel", among other things,

OMG dude, I was literally in that same situation with my best friend two years ago. We were really close until I started dating this girl who was our mutual friend. Go jealous and crap talked about me behind my back to the point me and the girl broke up.

Said things like I was too good for her because I was pursuing my MBA with a nice job while she was working at fast food (she was 19 while I was 23).

I asked him before we started talking if he liked her, but he too denied it. Like you, I believe bros before hoes ALWAYS.

He claimed he only liked her as his best friend. He would go FULL BETA and buy her gifts, give her rides to work, invite her out while he KNEW me and her were dating.

I was VERY VERY hurt and still am to this day.

Fast Forward to current time he is currently living with her, PAYING most of her rent (most likely paying all of it) and he's not even dating her. She became a lesbian and never did go back to college like she said she would.

Both of them working dead end jobs. I truly believed if me and her would have been together she would have turned out great, but oh well.

Me and my friend talk here and there, but no where near as close as we once were. Its really sad to see a friendship get destroyed over a girl and because he felt threatened over my achievements. Kinda funny to see someone go through that exact situation.

[–]moneyandsexislife 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

I can confirm.

After getting abs and changing the wardrobe out of necessity, men are now always trying to give me bone crushing handshakes, and 5s who used to flirt now can't even look me in the eye, pretending I don't exist.

People can't handle radical change of any kind even from their friends.

Abs have taught me that women are far thirstier than men.

I recommend to everyone that they fix their body as soon as possible.

[–]sodainthewatercup6 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

That will be great once I start cutting after this eternal bulk.

[–]laere 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

My goal is bulk for 5 more years then cut. Crush bitches like the hulk

[–]Haus_of_Klaus 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

You only have a few true friends at any given time in your life.

If someone says they have many friends, then the person does not understand what a friend is and is probably a bad friend themselves.

[–]mushyz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed 100%. I was lucky to learn this lesson young. In the sixth grade I had 2-guys I hung out with pretty much every day and all summer. First day of 7th grade started and I was invisible to them. Didn't understand. Told my parents and my mom said you should consider yourself lucky if you have one real friend your entire life. I didn't realize it at the time but it's proven to be true

[–]darkstar505 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

People change / You know but some people never do / You know when people change / They gain a peace but they lose one too

From the song "Seasons (Waiting On You)" by Future Islands.

[–]TheDialecticParadox 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's the thing with TRP;

as you improve, you start to notice change in every facet of your life. People you once called your friends start to become scarce. They find excuses not to see you anymore, they replace you in the social circle, etc. What happened?

You realize something:

The people you kept around you, your 'friends', were comparatively neutral to your own achievements. Every time you make a breakthrough or a major achievement, old 'friends' disappear and are replaced by superior, more successful 'friends'. Then you realize something even more disturbing --- you never kept them around; they kept you around

As human nature goes, subconsciously we 'recruit' these people we call our 'friends' to extrapolate something we can use to benefit ourselves, but we do it on friendly grounds to maximize benefit in the long-term. A good friendship is one that offers something of value to both parties.

We also recruit people who reflect ourselves. Human ego is hypnotic.

As you become smarter, more muscular, and more confident, you attract like-minded people that wouldn't have looked twice at your BP self. You offer these higher-value people something you didn't before.

Sometimes it's as simple as Social Value.

Social value is something that can be earned without dedicated pursuit. It comes naturally to those who seek a truly extraordinary future. You attract people who want the same thing, and who seek to be around people like themselves.

Remember: Always up-skill. Even your friends. Reap the benefits of a RP lifestyle, you earned it.

[–]myojomee 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

This hit a cord with me.

I am in the middle of rebuilding and come to realize this. These "Friends" I grew up with had to go. They will elevate you and distract you from the real demons you should be facing.

It has been tough to let them go.. but just like an earlier post "the glass in my hand is already broken". With this in mind, it will be easier.

Before TRP, women were tough to let go. Now, they are easier. Over time, I believe these friends will be too.

[–]elatusa 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd say that one side of every relationship tends to be hypergamous. The thing about "friends" you used to have before taking RP is that you are usually the one that used to be lower value - at least perceived as such. Once your value surpasses the value of "previously higher value friend", the hypergamous role is rarely switched and the relationship will, more often than not, end.

Not many people have enough balls to get inspired by someone they used to see as an excuse for their own failure. By default, everyone around you needs you to be worse than them.

[–]man0man 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for posting, this has been on my mind a lot lately. I am not a fan of handing out advice to people but I had hoped that I could "share the wealth" or at least lead by example. Was recently meeting up with a chick who was out with her friends on the prowl but it was like pulling teeth trying to get my "friends" who need it more than I do to actually seize the opportunity and ultimately none of them did. But then I realized they are lonely for a reason and I could serve them up girls on a silver platter and they would still come up with a reason to cop out.

Depressed people bitch, moan, and then make completely counter-intuitive decisions. And nothing is ever their fault and any success anyone else has is because of chance or privilege. And that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of the passive aggressive jealous bullshit, like when they start excluding you. It's like the fat mom workout groups who kick out anyone who actually manages to lose weight. Oh well. Onwards and upwards.

[–]ShitfacedBatman 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Incidentally, what's a good Tony Robbins DVD you recommend?

Also.... I'm guessing you're a musician?

[–]leodoestheopposite[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

If you're here in TRP, you're already outgrown Tony Robbins.

[–]ShitfacedBatman 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

As far as women/sex/relationships go, but what about business and entrepreneur advice?

[–]leodoestheopposite[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Do NOT take business and entrepreneurship advice from Tony Robbins.

You can have virtual mentors, people who are in business as businesspeople or entrepreneurs who also write about business and entrepreneurship, as opposed to people who's only business is to write about business.

Off the top of my head these are the people/blog that I suggest you take a look at:

  • Y combinator

  • Y combinator

  • Y combinator

  • Joel on Software

  • 37 Signal (also read their books)

  • Seth Godin (also read his books)

  • http://avc.com/

  • Hacker News

EDIT: TRP is not a popularity contest, the same for business. If you want to see real life example of Red Pill look at Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. Bernie is the True Red Pill, doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do, that's Alpha! Donald is just an arrogant prick.

[–]NotRAClST2 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

the crabs in the bucket pulls you down

[–]flexiblehold 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some friends will sabotage themselves and you by trying to drag you back down to where you were, they can't handle being exposed by your ability to improve.

The most difficult thing about changing positively is that your friends and family can often react the very same way as if you were joining a cult, they become threatened and concerned in a very similar fashion, and in a strange gaslighting sort-of way you can start to wonder if you are losing it -- until you look at your swelling bank account, physique and rolodex.

Since I've gone no-contact with my abusive mother and cut out a lot of shitheads from my social circle, lo-and-behold, I not only have more quality, reliable, responsible friends, but look better, am more financially secure, and am (generally speaking) more content.

[–]myexile 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I move friends as my views change. Embracing TRP has changed who I want to hangout with and who I don't want to hangout with. It's resulted in cutting friends but also trying not to burn bridges, as people change (a lot don't).

[–]40_SixandTwo 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can relate to this as well. I've always considered myself having two groups of friends, one group who I've been really close with from a job I held through my senior year of high school til' now. (currently a sophmore in college.) I hung out with these guys constantly and went out with them almost every week, they were my bros.

The other group were a circle of local musicians who I've known for years now, I played in bands with alot of them, went to shows and supported the bands they were in that I wasn't.

Finally when college time came I auditioned and got into the top music school in my area, and one of the best in the country. In addition to that I've cleaned up my diet, started working out more and re shaped alot of what my life is. I'm very happy with it. After my first semester at this school I ended with two scholarships that drastically reduced my tuition because I busted my ass the entire year.

Things I noticed, my friends from work hardly talk to me, or simply ignore my existence. I still have the job so I can make money while I'm in school, and I get snide comments from them all the time, as well as my boss. Alot of the times I jokingly get the "You'll be laughing at us when you're making more money then us." and other condescending comments like they want me to think they're joking but it's really condescending.

My other group of former friends, all the musicians, refuse to talk to me. There is one of them that I still somewhat remain in contact with and they all talk about me like I'm the anti-christ. What's interesting is when all of us were younger I was the one who was drinking and doing drugs, while most of these guys were completely straight laced and acted like even smoking a cigarette would contract them with the Bubonic Plague. I've since quit alot of those habits, and now years later all these guys are all taking LSD, smoking pot and drinking their weight in liquor almost every night. Weird, huh? They always used to tell me I was gonna fuck my life up with that stuff.

It's over though, my thoughts are that these guys aren't much a part of my life anymore, I've met some awesome people at school, both students and professors who I've been in heavy contact with. I think overall if you're on a path to do what you want, you'll have to surround yourself with like minded people.

[–]afroose 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is no true friend, what you call true friend are people who hide how bitter they are. All of us here are made this way, accept it like you accept hypergamy, you want to be better than everybody deal with it and use that bitterness to improve.

[–]Di-onysos 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Your friends are an extension of yourself. So, you are also an extension of your friends. When you and your friends are no longer congruent, you will drift apart.

Also, I believe there is two sets of traits; "surface" traits, that can be changed, and "deep" traits, the ones that you have from birth to death and make you "you", a snowflake if you will(note that the breadth of the surface traits is wider than commonly believed, this sub is a testament to that).

Then, there are two kinds of friends: the ones you share surface traits with, and the ones you share deep traits with. The surface friends will enter and exit your life, "They have their exits and their entrances", once gone you forget them and they forget you. If you change, you drift apart.

Then you have the "deep" friends. No matter how you change, they will stand by you. You might not cross paths for years but when you meet again, it's like no time has passed at all, no matter how much you two have changed in surface traits. These friends are one of the most valuable commodities you have in this life, hold onto them and recognize them.

[–]leodoestheopposite[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

So, those people who have made major changes in their life due to stumbling upon TRP have made changes in their "surface" traits only?

Or is it that TRP matched their "deep" traits and their Blue Pill behavior was just "surface" traits that they were able to shake off?

[–]Di-onysos 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be honest, I don't know. I think it is about 50/50%. There are stories here of people who thought they were doomed to a life of male bitchdom but then transformed themselves. At the same time we know that not everyone can swallow the red pill, the percentage might be quite low actually.

Going all the way down to the rabbit hole we come to the question "how much of our slates is blank?" and I don't presume to know an answer to that. We only know that it is not the either extreme. Everyone who has transformed themselves know how profound changes we can make. On the other hand we also know that there are traits we are born with. For example the IQ correlation of adoptees with their adoptive parents is zero. Identical twins raised apart share far more personality traits than nonidentical twins raised together.

These "deep" traits I talked about are something of an attitude to life, an understanding of its nature. Words do not suffice to explain this properly. If we go to the new age hippieism, the expression "maturity of the soul" can give an idea that's in the right direction. It's something akin to a frequency or a wavelength, when you meet someone who is on the same wavelength you tend to have similar insights and "get it", get things in a very similar way, and no matter how much your circumstances change, the connection stays.

[–]draquish 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for putting into words a concept I've had in my mind for a while.

[–]NotRAClST2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

People are little and very jealous easy.