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Wednesday Sticky (self.badeconomics)

wumbotarianI want to be the Walrasian Auctioneer when I grow up[M] が 投稿 - stickied post

I drank coffee outside at a cafe today. By coffee I mean crappy iced Dunkin coffee. By cafe I mean Dunkin Donuts.

We don't have cafes near me :(

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[–]wumbotarianI want to be the Walrasian Auctioneer when I grow up[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

New game: name some 1900s era economists who deserve a Nobel Prize but never got one.

Here are three:

  • Keynes
  • Pigou
  • Fisher

Keynes for very, very obvious reasons.

Pigou because of his work on the wealth/Pigou effect and his work on externalities. We still discuss and debate Pigouvian taxes today.

Fisher for his work on consumption, his work on interest rates and his work on inflation and deflation. The man was 30 years ahead of macroeconomics - he even investigated the Phillips Curve!

[–]besttrousers"Then again, I have pegged you for a Neoclassical/Austrian." 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

  • Mises

  • Robinson

Tversky would have shared with Kahneman, if he didn't die.

[–]NewmanTheScofflawGeorge Smiley 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

You think Thaler will get a Nobel? He worked with both of them.

[–]besttrousers"Then again, I have pegged you for a Neoclassical/Austrian." 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you asked me two years ago, I would have said I expected a Thaler/Schiller Nobel sometime in the next 3-5 years as part of a "second generation" BE Nobel.

Schiller getting one without Thaler throws that off a bit. Thaler definitely did Nobel-level work, but probably wouldn't get it on his own, and I'm not sure who would be a reasonable person to share it with him - maybe Loewenstein or Rabin?

I think the "third generation" BE prize goes to Camerer and Fehr.

[–]besttrousers"Then again, I have pegged you for a Neoclassical/Austrian." 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Here's Samuelson's picks:

One cannot forbear playing the game of might-have-been. Here is the most likely scenario of awards from 1901 on: Bohm-Bawerk, Marshall, J.B. Clark, Walras, and Wicksell; Carl Menger, Pareto, Wicksteed, Irving Fisher, and Edgeworth; Sombart, Mitchell, Pigou, Adolph Wagner, Allyn Young, and Cannan; Davenport, Taussig, Schumpeter, Veblen, and Bortkiewicz; Cassel, J. M. Keynes, Heckscher, J. R. Commons, and J. M. Clark; Hawtrey, von Mises, Robertson, H. L. Moore, and F. H. Knight.

via http://www.coordinationproblem.org/2011/08/mises-wins-the-nobel-prize-in-economic-science-well-sort-of-.html

[–]wumbotarianI want to be the Walrasian Auctioneer when I grow up[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's an extensive list alright.

[–]BaratheonEconomistMeta-Cognition 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wicksell deserved a Nobel more than Keynes.

Saying Keynes should have a Nobel is equal to advocating for yellow stars and industrial-grade showers.

[–]ivansmlhotshot with a theory 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

  • Frank Ramsey

Making ahead-of-his-time contributions to consumption-saving problem, optimal taxation and subjective probability, all that before reaching age of 27? That's fucking impressive (and one can only speculate what he'd achieve if he didn't die prematurely).

[–]say_wot_againConfirmed for Google bigwig 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

We don't have cafes near me :(

And yet you deny that West Coast = Best Coast. Our SHITTY coffee became the national standard!

[–]NewmanTheScofflawGeorge Smiley 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not the entire west coast is great but I agree with you. Pacific Northwest is the best.

[–]say_wot_againConfirmed for Google bigwig 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can we agree everything but LA?

[–]NewmanTheScofflawGeorge Smiley 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sure, though I could care less about Southern California

[–]lorentz65DEMAND FOR THE DEMAND GOD! 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Woah hold up. My priors tell me that nyc is objectively the greatest city in the world, so chill.

[–]say_wot_againConfirmed for Google bigwig 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

One city can't make the whole coast.

[–]lorentz65DEMAND FOR THE DEMAND GOD! 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You underestimate the strength of my priors.

[–]wumbotarianI want to be the Walrasian Auctioneer when I grow up[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

NYC sucks.

[–]lorentz65DEMAND FOR THE DEMAND GOD! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

U wot m8?

[–]wumbotarianI want to be the Walrasian Auctioneer when I grow up[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I could have taken a trip into Center City to drink the absolutely delicious La Colombe coffee at one of their various cafes. Or gone to their HQ in Fishtown.

We have nice cafes, just none near me.

[–]BaratheonEconomistMeta-Cognition 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

I'd be interested to know where people sit on issues other than economics. So, I think I'll ask a couple of questions to get a general gist.

  • Favourite philosopher?

  • Atheist or religious? (God help you if you try and tell me you're an agnostic).

  • Morality: objective or subjective?

  • Some cultures are superior to others; A/D?

  • Hawkish or doveish on foreign policy?

  • Iran nuclear deal? Yay or nay?

  • ISIS: motivated by Islam or secular grievances?

  • Mass collection of metadata: yay or nay?

  • Sociology isn't a science: A/D?

My own answers, for anybody who cares:

  • Nietzsche.

  • Atheist.

  • Objective.

  • Agree.

  • Hawkish.

  • Nay.

  • Islam.

  • Yay.

  • Agree (obviously).

[–]besttrousers"Then again, I have pegged you for a Neoclassical/Austrian." 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

  • Kierkegaard
  • Atheist
  • I dunno
  • Some cultures have resolved to Nash equilibriums that are Pareto-superior to others. Lots of stag hunts out there.
  • I dunno
  • I dunno, probably good?
  • Probably secular grievances? I think those are important in the causal chain.
  • I dunno
  • Disagree, there's lots of great work done by sociologists.

[–]say_wot_againConfirmed for Google bigwig 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Skipping the first three.

  • Deny

  • Dovish in general

  • Yay

  • Why not both?

  • By the government, no. By companies that use it to provide better products to those who opt in (like, uh, my flair), yes.

  • Don't know

The only one I really have faith in is the metadata one. I'd much rather defer to domain expert consensus.

[–]probablyaname 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not a economist so I'm wondering how my answers will line up with subreddit regulars with the decided to partake.

  • Foucault/Marx

  • Apathiest agnostic

  • Objective but physically unobtainable

  • Disagree--on which rubric do we measure superiority?

  • Doveish--I'm from Canada though so its not so much of a debate here

  • Yay

  • A mixture of both--the grievances are secular but because they come from an Islamic culture they use Islam as justification for their actions

  • nayay?

  • Disagree--it is quiet obviously a science (or parts, it is a broad field)

[–]BaratheonEconomistMeta-Cognition 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

on which rubric do we measure superiority?

Morality, presumably. A culture which promotes FGM would presumably be objectively inferior to a culture which doesn't, provided you think morality is objective in the first instance.

[–]probablyaname 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes but all cultures have their own personal moral blindspots so how do we measure out moral injustice to other moral injustices--on which rubric do we measure one ill against another--and if we do so how do we separate it from the material conditions those cultures exist in (if you consider it important--do we measure a hunter-gather tribe who has to hunt animals to survive to individuals living in a post-industrial society that fetishize the consumption meat from a unethical factory farm? Are both partaking in equally unethical acts?)

Trying to measure the superiority or inferiority of one culture to another is a trapshoot as far as I'm concern that often lead to immoral thinking (of ones own superiority over other humans) and less helping when trying to correct unethical cultural practices.

[–]wumbotarianI want to be the Walrasian Auctioneer when I grow up[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

  • None
  • Athiest
  • Objective? I'm not a philosopher.
  • Agree
  • Doveish
  • No idea
  • Not motivated by Islam
  • Nay
  • I don't know.

[–]CatFortune 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Favourite philosopher?

I started a major and completed a minor in philosophy, but I haven't thought about it in a while and haven't retained much. I would have to say the Buddha.

Atheist or religious? (God help you if you try and tell me you're an agnostic).

I've had a lot of weird labels in my life in terms of religion, but right now I'm officially exploring Buddhism. I haven't been at it in a while because the nearest temple is an hour away, I have no independent means of transportation, and I tend to only be passionate in phases of one thing at a time. I guess you could call me agnostic.

Morality: objective or subjective?

I was looking at comments on an old account, and I used to be very passionate about morality being subjective, when I wasn't pushing moral non-cognitivism. I don't even know what I was talking about; it seems like ages ago. I believe morality is subjective, but not in any kind of significant way; it doesn't matter.

Some cultures are superior to others; A/D?

Not inherently.

Hawkish or doveish on foreign policy?

Oh man. Don't tell anybody, but I'm trying to get by in my political life without knowing too much about foreign policy. I'd have to know so many things about so many countries. I don't want to pretend I know what I'm talking about.

Iran nuclear deal? Yay or nay?

See above.

ISIS: motivated by Islam or secular grievances?

If I had to guess, I'd say both. But ultimately, see above.

Mass collection of metadata: yay or nay?

I don't personally feel bothered by it. If we don't increase privacy invasion, that would be good enough for me. But I can't imagine it works well, so I worry they might do more.

Sociology isn't a science: A/D?

I don't know what else you'd call it.

[–]besttrousers"Then again, I have pegged you for a Neoclassical/Austrian." 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm trying to get by in my political life without knowing too much about foreign policy. I'd have to know so many things about so many countries. I don't want to pretend I know what I'm talking about.

Yeah. I imagine that foreign policy is similar to economic policy in that laymen opinions are probably completely useless.

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

  • Philosopher: Kierkegaard, Kant, and Parfit

  • Religion: I don't hold strong beliefs either way, though I'm pragmatically teleotheist.

  • Morality: at least some moral claims are true, and at least some moral claims are false.

  • Culture: "Superior" has to be defined within the context of an objective function that may, itself, vary by culture.

  • Foreign policy: I think Barnett's Core/Gap model has a lot going for it.

  • Iran: The sooner Iran gets the bomb, the sooner we can get Iran, Israel, and Saudi Arabia around a table for SALT talks. I defer to whatever Barnett thinks or whatever the relevant IR consensus is.

  • ISIS: Don't know enough to say.

  • Mass collection of metadata: makes me rather uncomfortable.

  • Sociology: some strands of the discipline are engaged in producing falsifiable models, other parts are not.

Baratheon: you like Nietzsche but think morality is objective. I don't know how you reconcile those two views, but I'd love to hear about it.