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[–]xisytenin 105ポイント106ポイント  (27子コメント)

Neither did the Lutwaffe or the Wehrmacht.

Damn SS giving everyone a bad name.

[–]krutopatkin 128ポイント129ポイント  (26子コメント)

The Wehrmacht still took part in the mass killing of thousands on the Eastern front. The "clean Wehrmacht" is a myth.

[–]maverick715 35ポイント36ポイント  (25子コメント)

You're right but Rommel fought pretty clean. The Afrika Corps was never accused of war crimes, treated prisoners well, and refused orders to kill Jews. Then of course Hitler killed him.

[–]krutopatkin 20ポイント21ポイント  (5子コメント)

Rommel was a small part of the Wehrmacht fighting on a rather unimportant front. I'm sure you're going to find clean Generals on the Eastern front as well, but it fades in the grand scheme of things.

Also Rommel wasn't killed because he was "too nice" but because he probably was both in favour of a peace with the Western(!) allies and silently condoned the opposition to Hitler, without ever actively participating.

[–]todayilearned83 13ポイント14ポイント  (4子コメント)

He also disobeyed direct orders from Hitler, and was friends with some of the conspirators, even though he likely didn't know about the plot.

Source: http://www.history.com/news/8-things-you-may-not-know-about-erwin-rommel

[–]krutopatkin 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

He also disobeyed direct orders from Hitler

this sounds a lot more mutinous than it actually was, he just didn't want the Allies to escape - Guderian did the same

even though he likely didn't know about the plot.

we can't know for sure sadly, but it is very likely that he knew of the existence of a resistance but wasn't convinced enough to join.

[–]todayilearned83 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Rommel is also alleged to have traveled to Virginia to study the tactics of Confederate general Stonewall Jackson. He was very dedicated to his profession as it seems, and not so much Nazi ideology. http://vahistoryonline.com/tag/erwin-rommel/

[–]krutopatkin -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

and not so much Nazi ideology

that kind of contradicts your previous link:

  1. He was an early admirer of Hitler.

[–]todayilearned83 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think he saw Hitler's rise initially as a way to return Germany to pre-WWI glory, as did many other Germans.

[–]Lord-Forbes 18ポイント19ポイント  (8子コメント)

He was remarkable for the fact that he could get away with this, largely because he was so brilliantly successful as a field commander.

It is true that not every single german soldier was a willing accomplice, but the idea that the Wehrmacht is clean is simply disingenuous.

[–]heartbeats 9ポイント10ポイント  (6子コメント)

While Rommel was certainly a good field/tank commander, he definitely wasn't the amazing general that he's been portrayed as (a great deal of that portrayal was by Western historians and generals after the war).

In the end, he was a better tactical fighter than strategist. Give him a battle and he could generally do pretty well - and a couple of times he managed to rescue the Afrika Korps from pretty dire circumstances - but his long term planning and strategy weren't where they needed to be for someone in his command position.

[–]krutopatkin 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

he definitely wasn't the amazing general that he's been portrayed as

interesting how nazi propaganda still influences our perception of the war.

[–]BumpsAndBooters 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I wouldn't say so much the Nazis, but more so people referring to Sir Winston Churchills quote about Rommel during the war.

"We have a very daring and skillful opponent against us, and, may I say across the havoc of war, a great general." -Sir Winston Churchill, January 1942 during a speech in the House of Commons.

[–]krutopatkin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't dispute that Rommel wasn't an idiot, but that he a) "wasn't the amazing general that he's been portrayed as and b) wasn't the "clean soldier" he has been described at

Also, I think it's fair to say Churchill's statement is at least partly propaganda as well - he surely won't say he nearly lost Egypt to a bad General

[–]ratboy12345 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was more excusing the failures in Africa and giving the people at home a reason why the success wasn't big in Africa. They took Rommel as an excuse for their own generals mistakes. At least that's what they said in a German documentary on TV.

[–]Lord-Forbes 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

He was also plagued by one of the toughest supply lines anywhere in the war. I'm not ranking him, just saying that he likely would have been relieved and punished because of his attitude towards Hitler's racial policies and treatment of his captives had he not been very successful in battle.

[–]heartbeats 31ポイント32ポイント  (5子コメント)

The whole 'Rommel was a gentleman' trope has repeatedly been dismissed by historians as being untrue. The topic is brought up so much on Reddit that /r/badhistory put a moratorium on it last month.

There are some reports of Rommel using Jewish prisoners in Africa to 'clear' mines, and his division executing black French soldiers in France. That, and people always seem to forget this man was in charge of building the Atlantik Wall with slave labor and was in charge of Hitler's bodyguard during the invasion of Poland. He was well aware of the Einsatzgruppen's plans for Egypt, as well. Even if he didn't commit any war crimes himself, this man still knowingly defended a regime that created the Holocaust.

https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/25ih5k/yet_another_rommel_post_according_to_some/

https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/20pn2r/dae_rommel_wasnt_a_nazi_but_a_gentleman/

https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/1oibrl/rommel_appears_on_til_abandon_all_hope/

https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/37x8kc/is_there_any_badhistory_about_wehrmacht_officers/

[–]Krawk101 24ポイント25ポイント  (1子コメント)

I can't take this post seriously when your 4 sources are 4 reddit threads without any sources in them either.

[–]SirToastymuffin 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is reddit. Sources are for losers.

[–]00chris00 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Thank God, I knew somebody would write this up so I wouldn't have to.

Keep doing the lord's work son.

[–]cool-calm-pete 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I like how we’re praising people for how “cleanly” they killed masses of people.

[–]SirToastymuffin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think we all agree war's not about to go away yet, unfortunately, and I'd by far prefer a clean 'gentlemanly' war than some of the atrocities we've seen in war thus far.