259
260

One of the Guys? (self.gaybros)

Votrelouvel が 投稿

I like to fish, play video games, I jog, I go on a huge hiking trip every summer and I know how to build a fire. I like getting dirty and gross, having smelly, rough sex. I drink more beer than I do any other alcoholic beverage and staying active so I can pig out more is super enjoyable.

I'm also a drag queen. I like make up, I like fashion. I know how to paint my nails and dance in high heels. I sing, swish, and poof my way around a stage for a living. Campy media is my favorite thing to partake in, old ladies delight me, and I'm not afraid to speak in silly voices/be a total weirdo.

To some, that makes me less of a man. Why does that make me less of a man? Why do people assume so much about me because of my profession? I'm an actor, a singer, I just happen to do it in a costume. I'm not Jack from Will and Grace, but I'm not Paul Bunyan either.

I want people to realize that men come in so many forms and our interests do not define us as one of the guys. My, "manly," behaviors aren't overwritten by my, "girly," behaviors. You can be a gaybro and like make up. You can be a gaybro if you are a drag queen. So, next time you look at someone's profile and see a feminine interest that might make you scared that they're going to be something or the other, give them a chance, especially if you think they're cute. You can learn so much about yourself when you meet people who embrace every interest and aspect of themselves. You should never be afraid of liking something because you feel it's going to emasculate you.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is, let's just sit around a campfire, in the middle of the woods, and sing through Cher's greatest hits album with BBQ sauce smeared across our face from the steak we just ate.

Edit: Was not sure how this was going to be received, so thank you for the positive vibes, bros! <3

Edit 2: Apparently, some of you are saying that I'm demanding people be into my drag, but the point of this post is that we as humans, particularly gay men, are free to be complex individuals with many interests and passions that make up parts of us, but not the whole picture. Don't make assumptions about people based on their professions or their interests. This is a call to arms to reach out to others and get to know them before you turn them down, (whether that means friendship, love, or whatever.) I don't know why people are projecting a message of anti-masculine men onto this; lumberjacks can like make up too!

全 154 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]Adrewski582 149ポイント150ポイント  (18子コメント)

Am I the only one appalled by this!? BBQ sauce on steak?! I guess to each, their own.

[–]mab1981Bropidemiologist 34ポイント35ポイント  (12子コメント)

Right? Some good salt, maybe a little pepper. FINI.

[–]Gingeraffe14 17ポイント18ポイント  (9子コメント)

All I need is a little butter. Clean and simple.

[–]mab1981Bropidemiologist 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

I could get behind that for sure! As long as I can taste the meat with a bit of seasoning, I'm in heaven.

[–]Gingeraffe14 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

I've made some really good compound butters for steak before. Really classes up a simple sirloin. Garlic and thyme, roasted red pepper and black pepper, jalapeño and a touch of honey. Really easy to customize based on the side dishes.

[–]mab1981Bropidemiologist 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

Try tarragon, shallots, chervil and cracked pepper for a compound butter too. Highly recommended. All the flavours of a Bearnaise sauce without all the fussy preparations.

[–]Gingeraffe14 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yup. Totally making steak for dinner now. Thanks!

[–]mab1981Bropidemiologist 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

May I have some? Tight budget this month means dinner tonight is my homemade canned pasta sauce and spaghetti.

[–]ColdWarConcreteArt History Brofessor 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's also what he said.

[–]ColdWarConcreteArt History Brofessor 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's what he said.

[–]dankwank 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Massage the salt/pepper into the meat before you sear/cook it :) Massage the meat!

[–]TheStarkRealityGreedy SOB 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Peppercorn sauce, dude. Or blue cheese.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 26ポイント27ポイント  (0子コメント)

Smh, the only time a bunch of gays don't want any sauce!!!!

[–]majense77Brogrammer 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's a bad steak if you need to eat it with sauce. Disgraceful, really.

[–]Kolyarut5 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

A Cognac/Sherry/Red Wine sauce is usually a good addition!

[–]Dstrunk 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

With some burgundy mushrooms

[–]acid-nz 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damn Americans! What about a nice red wine jus, or a béarnaise?!

[–]Gingeraffe14 42ポイント43ポイント  (11子コメント)

I can't up vote this enough. God bless you for this. I have similar ways about me - I love skiing, frisbee, tennis, and starting a bonfire. But I also know how to bake some fucking awesome delights that would make your tongue cum instantly. I am proud to say I can crochet one hell of a scarf or a blanket to keep my bf and me warm in the winter.

Bro time is priceless. But the other stuff doesn't make me less of one.

EDIT: no, I did not mean ducking! Who the duck ever means ducking?!?

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

Who else is gonna bake football shaped cakes for the sports loving gaybros or knit warm hats and scarves for their fellow winter sportsbros?????

[–]Gingeraffe14 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Don't even get me started on the cookouts. Homemade BBQ sauce and wings for days...

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's disgusting how much pork I can consume in a sitting.

[–]Gingeraffe14 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is that a euphemism? Lol

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Only if you want it to be!

[–]I_like_bicycles 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

Do you have any pictures of your scarfs?

[–]Gingeraffe14 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not on my phone. :/ The ones I've made are pretty simple. Working on one right now for my bf's birthday, so I haven't taken photos yet. I'll post some later today when I get home.

[–]ghost_victim 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Scarves ;)

[–]Gingeraffe14 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Everyone likes scarves!!!

...right?

...guys...? 😕

[–]Gingeraffe14 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

http://imgur.com/sL18T6c

Not one of the scarves I'm working on, but here is my blanket for our bed. Not even halfway done... :/

[–]I_like_bicycles [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's really nice! I love the pattern! Also, depending on where you're from, winter is 3 months away, so plenty of time.

[–]Omgopher 18ポイント19ポイント  (2子コメント)

As they say, we ARE the subculture. We shouldn't have to feel pigeonholed into any categories of gender expression. When the default insult to a man's masculinity is being called gay, the gays have free reign over their self-expression. That freedom is something I love about being gay.

It took me a few years to rid myself of my internalized homophobia but now I proudly love all my gaybros, drag queens and gym rats. :) Keep on keeping on, brother.

[–]Gingeraffe14 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am just loving this thread. I was very apprehensive to post things here out of some fear of rejection. Incredibly nice to know that we can just be. We can bro out, then go home and cuddle up with the man and watch reruns of sitcoms and Mean Girls.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed! Being gay is being free of a lot of societal expectations and that's a great thing!

[–]ace_cakes 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes! I used to be really dismissive of guys with 'girly' behaviours and really conscious of not being perceived as to 'feminine' myself. I soon came to realise it's people just embracing who they are and being unapologetically themselves, and I have a lot of time for that. Wurk that stiletto in the supermarket if you want to, don't let someone else project their insecurities onto you.

[–]JoeskyyyTechbro 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

sing through Cher's greatest hits album with BBQ sauce smeared across our face from the steak we just ate.

Deal.

But I love this post so much. I'd say I'm about 80% "bro" and 20% "fem" and people will be taken back when I have my so-called "girly" moments.

You do you, boo!

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

mascara4mascara :*

[–]caligulabobigula 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

To me, one of the greatest aspects of being gay is the freedom to be who or what you want to be. You can be masculine yet acknowledge the aspects of femininity within yourself (which every man, gay or straight, I believe has). I call it faggotry, it's an empowering thing for me. I have to tell others I'm gay, yet it's not something I hide. I was raised a certain way I guess, with two brothers and we are a lot alike. So I am masculine per say, but that doesn't mean I can't sissy that walk and be a glamazon bitch ready for the runway (in my mind). It's almost as if you're in on a joke that only a select few get, and not necessarily all other gay guys. When you do find others that get it and you, there's no better feeling. It's a universal truth that being yourself will surround you with other positive like minded or understanding people, your tribe.

[–]cammydude144 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

You seem like a really cool dude :) I don't see why you can't be a bro and not be feminine too that's great! I'm not particularly manly as I don't really do sport apart from biking and the occasional game of tennis. But I love me some drag queens and cheesy music from time to time 😀

[–]jwax33 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

You had me at rough, smelly sex. And I can't fish so you're more bro than me already. ;)

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

SUP, BRO?!?!?! applies mascara

[–]Gingeraffe14 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

picks out bedazzled fishing lure

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

throws bedazzled, hot pink football

[–]Gingeraffe14 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That makes it easier to see! I don't know why the NFL hasn't switched yet!!

[–]NotTheRealWes85% Gay 15% Bro 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's part of the reason this sub frustrates me sometimes. I am not a typical gaybro, most sports don't interest me, aside from some hockey, but even then I don't have all of the knowledge about it, so I can't hold a conversation longer than "yeah, I saw the game, it was awesome". I'm still trying trying to get in shape, so WW is not my place. But I can still cook up a mean steak, I can enjoy going on a hike, even if it isn't my favorite thing in the world, and I can still talk about things that guys talk about. But since you look at me, and you don't think GayBro. I don't belong here? Fuck all of that noise.

You keep being you, and keep doing an awesome job of it!

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I honestly felt this way too. That's why I made this because I wanted to see who else felt this way and I'm so glad others do/are accepting of it.

[–]r4ptor 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Eh, I'm the same. Very little interest in sports, moderate interest in working out, love being outdoors and exploring, and can cook decently. I'd say my lack of knowledge/interest in sports and (video) gaming are what alienate me the most but there's other stuff I can nerd out about and bore others to tears just as much as the former bores me. :P

[–]MayoralCandidateAcquired Immune Deficiency SyndBROme [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

What separates you from a non-bro gay man? Gay men enjoy steak and hiking.

[–]ThinkingBlur 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

Can we se the before and after drag plzzz. I saw one of your favorite looks post. And dam you can pull it off ;)

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 18ポイント19ポイント  (6子コメント)

Sure! Hope this works!

[–]Gingeraffe14 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dayyyyummmmm!

[–]ThinkingBlur 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yassss!! Um... I mean yes thanks (manly voice) Looking good ;P

[–]ghost_victim 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ooh so Pearl-esque :)

By the cute boy with septum ring turned into sexy queen I mean

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pearl and I actually started doing drag around the same time, so it might just be that one pic. She also became an acquaintance of mine when she moved to Brooklyn; she's great company. :)

[–]pdmock 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I hate it when a drag queen is so damned beautiful in and out of drag. It is not fair. God you are gorgeous. bows down

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pffff, you're too kind <3

[–]Amelorn 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

You raise interesting issues.

I never felt as stripped of my masculinity* and "exposed" (in various ways) until I came out. The other person's perception of "gay" completely subsumed Amelorn's (James, irl) personhood, to the point where it's easier to "give them what they want" rather than go to the trouble of meaningful interaction. Being a naturally private/reserved person, being (effectively) defined in public by my most private (and infrequent -_-) bedchamber sport has been very jarring.

*By the time I came out, my sense of masculinity was already as fragile as a Ming vase held together with Scotch tape following repeated smashing (bullying, intellectual > athletic prowess, spending half of my life fat, not being acknowledged as an adult when that arrived, and so on).

I sense that a gay man's "relationship" with his masculinity is a significant issue, judging by the posturing, factional divisions, affectation, language usage/commentary etc. One group's "point" on the masculine/feminine continuum (crude, but useful enough for this discussion) will freely disparage another point: ie not being "gay enough", too catty/queeny, "pretending to be straight" - I've heard it all.

P.S. Old women are the shit.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think the biggest issue here is that people on both sides fail to see how we contain both elements of each of these behaviors in such quantities, that really, the concepts are completely made up and that words like feminine and masculine are just societal objects. That's why I always challenge people to think beyond them. If you're basing your entire life off of an archaic, dying system of categorization, then you're obviously missing out on something more crucial, and that's the actual experiences you have with someone. I've dated a lot of people in my life and it has been full of surprises. Of course, it's nearly impossible to get people outside of their own beliefs long enough to make them realize these things and that's where I find most of my frustration because it's often met with people telling me that I'm not accepting of them, when all I'm doing is suggesting a different outlook of things. People are so quick to assume that attraction in innate and that society has no outcome on what they find attractive, but I do find it very odd that it's prevalent for gay men to hate on effeminate guys during a time where misogyny is quite the force in our culture.

[–]themooseblues 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Just be you dude, I don't really understand why so many people on this board are constantly looking for approval. Remember that everyone is an individual; why would you personally want to be fit into some sort of stereotype (typical "masculinity") and stripped of your individuality?

if you enjoy these things tons of power to you, just remember that's all that matters in the end: that you enjoy it.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not looking for approval. Some people genuinely do not seem to understand that you can like both feminine and masculine things. Just wanna empower those who have a hard time with it.

[–]admiral-halbert 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can't be bro without also being quite stereotypically gay . This post is inside-out pure /r/gaybros. Dae love wrestling with bears and chewing tobacco but also love being a contestant on Drag Race and meth sex????

[–]bearvivantbrovivant 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I feel a /r/NYCgaybros meetup coming onnn

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've always wanted to go to one, but always miss the dates XD

[–]Oshi105I read, why don't you? 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I miss it every damn time too. The older I get the more I have to schedule things a month in advance :P

[–]Rumplestiltskin36 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I too like fishing and hiking, also motorbikes and guns and beer and sports and other stuff. I don't much care for make up or fashion but I used to work at a summer camp and every year the male counsellors dressed up in drag and put on a beauty pageant. Every year I killed it, GI Jane, Sarah Palin... I can't do my own nails or anything but I never pretended I didn't enjoy it and I'd never let anyone tell me I should reign it in

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's all about having a good time :)

[–]YourFairyGodmother 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

You're disgusting. BBQ sauce on a fucking steak!??!!?

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (8子コメント)

AND I PUT RANCH ON PIZZA!

[–]eljacobito 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

I can definitely forgive you for ruining steak with BBQ sauce if you put ranch on your pizza.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

To be fair, I don't really like steak all that much either :X

[–]eljacobito 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

So you're not a fan of a big, juicy piece of meat?

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I like my meat in different shapes ;)

[–]warmpitaManley Pubrick -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ranch on rice or gtfo!

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ranch. . . on. . . rice. . . .? O_o

[–]warmpitaManley Pubrick 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I got ranch on ranch on ranch!

(I used to put it on dirty rice, but I'm from South Carolina so...)

[–]NOTaMango 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

You pretty much described my perfect weekend. I don't however perform in drag, I change my car's oil in heels (I can reach things better), and love to go out and be a total weirdo, so much so it's garnered me a lot of local fame. You rock, you be you.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Being a weirdo is the only way to go, tbh.

[–]Squidgeididdly 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Are there videos of you performing in drag online? I think I'd enjoy watching them :)

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah! Voila! It's a work in progress to collect all my performances.

[–]hexacoto 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You have a great singing voice! I enjoyed watching the videos.

[–]ghost_victim 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You look like Sharon Needles a bit in the Halloween one! FIERCE

[–]Squidgeididdly 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Cheers. I like your videos :)

[–]jplivesjc 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

you sound like a trip. let's go camping. i got some gaga and zeppelin to play through

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Let's bring some wigs and put on some shows for the squirrels.

[–]jplivesjc 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

i went to an underwear only party in san jose this weekend (if you are in the bay area, check out trousers down. its every third saturday of the month) and a guy there put glidder in his beard. and not just a little bit. bitch made it sparkle like a disco ball.

props

[–]N0_ThisIsPATRICK 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

old ladies delight me

YES!!! Old ladies are my favorite! Betty White, Ruth Bader Ginsburg (that Time cover this year, amirite?), Elaine Stritch, Joan Rivers, Cloris Leachman, Jessica Walters, Anne Meara, Angela Lansbury! I love them all!

I even had a 93 year old "girlfriend" a few years ago, a tiny old woman named Helen who played bocce with my grandmother. She went around and introduced me to all the other old ladies as her boyfriend. It was hilarious.

Glad I'm not the only one haha :P

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

My hero is Angela Lansbury, dude! Old ladies are THE BEST.

[–]N0_ThisIsPATRICK 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I could watch Murder, She Wrote for days!

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I do ;_;

[–]Kolyarut5 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

So, I'm not the only one who is a die hard fan of that series. I started watching it when staying at my grandma's house and I became addicted :)

[–]solar_burn 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed! Be who the Fuck you want to be whenever you want to be it. There are no rules but the ones we set on ourselves.

[–]pandito_flexowhere's the buffet? 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Um...can I join in this campfire?? This sounds fucking awesome.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

everyone can join ;)

[–]klartraume 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Hmmm... what always gets me with these conversations is people conflating activities with behaviors/personalities. Like, I know I'm a bit effeminate in my bearing. I'm obviously a dude and all, but, mostly, I'm not super macho.

But I don't have anymore interest in drag shows than I do in comedians. I like them okay if they've got really funny stand up act. I don't get the point of lip syncing. So, you've got a good message - but if drags a big part of your life then we'd probably spend a big part of that apart if we were dating. Which isn't inherently bad. Like, my boyfriend spends 12 more hours in the gym than I do each week. And that's his me time and my time to binge of League and German TV. You being into drag doesn't reflect your personality anymore than my not.

I don't know, I guess I agree you can be a bro who likes to dress up as a drag queen. But not everyone will be pumped if you're super into drag/specific video games/lacrosse/other more niche things. And you just got to shrug that off and not take it as an insult to your character and masculinity.

PS: Also how the fuck isn't it masculine to care about old ladies? People who think those are the weird ones.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I have no desire to make everyone, "pumped," about what I do. The point is, we are the total of all interests and behaviors. One interest does not make us in our whole. We are complex humans that can do a lot of things and be into a lot of things. (Also, ps, lip syncing is garbage, that's why I sing.)

[–]klartraume 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah! That's why I wasn't saying we were disagreeing on anything, it's just I can't comprehend the mindset of "You're into drag, you must not be manly."

Be complex and I'm sure you'll attract the same :)

[–]Votrelouvel[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Happily saddled up so I don't have to worry about it anymore :)

[–]AquaQuartz 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

let's just sit around a campfire, in the middle of the woods, and sing through Cher's greatest hits album with BBQ sauce smeared across our face from the steak we just ate.

Brb, gonna learn some Cher songs because that sounds awesome. Although I may have to bring some veggie burgers since I don't eat meat :)

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

I'll make portobello mushroom "burgers"

[–]AquaQuartz 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Haha no way! Black bean burgers are where it's at!!! They're actually substantial and filling unlike the mushroom ones which are for rich women on diets.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Portobella mushrooms are cheap where I am :O

[–]AquaQuartz 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Don't worry, black beans are cheap everywhere :)

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I just can't eat any veggie burgers with avocado in them because I'm allergic :(

[–]AquaQuartz 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm so sorry...

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

YUP. My lips swell like Lana Del Rey's.

[–]wuziwu 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm a butch woman and i love drag queens way more drag kings not sure why. I hang out here because there really aren't many super masculine gay women. I'm just in general not attracted to feminine things. Also a BBQ and camping sounds awesome but there better be a dance routine with that singalong.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even butch women can be gaybros ;)

[–]pdmock 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

You sound like an awesome guy. Drag Queens are the strongest men on the planet. Wish I had the balls to be one.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

They're right between your legs! Now, let me go fetch some duck tape and we'll get you started. . .

[–]Gingeraffe14 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Truth. I know I'm not man enough to be one. All the power to yas!

[–]jaces_dream 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

If I was dating a guy who was super into theater, I'd probably spend a lot of time at his shows, going to his casting parties, hanging out with his theater friends, talking about this and that new show that they just starting casting for, seeing his friends in shows with him, etc.

Some people aren't into bars. Some people don't want to spend a lot of nights going to drag shows. Some people don't want to spend a lot of time waiting for their bf as they ask about their hair and makeup. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with enjoying being a drag queen, and going to drag shows, and doing your self up. But, there's nothing wrong if that's not the life I want to sign on for.

It's okay for you to be you. It's also okay for me to be me, even if that means I'm not into what you're into. Wouldn't you rather be with a guy who shares your interests, than a guy who tolerates them? (This is in response to > So, next time you look at someone's profile and see a feminine interest that might make you scared that they're going to be something or the other, give them a chance, especially if you think they're cute.)

[–]Votrelouvel[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

You do realize that you're proving my point and generalizing that being a drag queen is the only aspect of my identity? Drag is only one medium aspect of my life. And isn't the only thing to talk about or have in common with me. When I'm not in drag, I'm usually not doing anything even remotely like drag because of how stressful and how much work it is. Again, as I said, prejudgments because of my profession are silly. Not to mention, opposites can attract and teach each other a thing or two.

Furthermore, my life isn't just bars and drag shows and even though my BF doesn't like every bar or stage I go to, he comes to every single show I perform at because he loves me.

You're also making the mistake to think that all drag happens in bars. I have a one-woman show at a jazz theatre, the same venue where people from Broadway come to sing all the time.

[–]jaces_dream 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I've never heard of a drag show happening outside of a bar. Interesting. I might actually like that more then.

You're claiming that I'm oversimplifying what you said, but I also feel like you're oversimplifying what I said. I am friends with a quite a few drag queens, and, while drag is only a part of their identities, it is definitely a very significant part. It's also something I don't really care for. I get really bored at drag shows, and I've been to several (including some by professionals). If you like drag, and I mean like it enough to make this post about it, well, then I'm just not going to be into something that you really care about.

I never claimed that your life was all bars and drag shows. All I claimed was that it is a meaningful part. And it's just not what I'm into. And I think that's okay.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Of course it's okay, but you're being very dismissive of people who are drag queens by assuming you could never meet one you had anything in common with.

But yes, drag happens outside of bars pretty often. I sing and do an American music song review from the 1950s onward.

[–]jaces_dream 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I never said that we wouldn't have anything in common. All I said was I would feel nothing for something that is pretty important to you.

I mean, I like video games, and I wouldn't want to date someone who was super bored with video games and who would totally rather just not talk about video games ever, even if they would put up with video games for me (e.g. willing to play with me, even though they hate it).

[–]Tiki_Torch 1ポイント2ポイント  (24子コメント)

I'm very glad you can be yourself but realize that things like the campy gay scene, drag and dressing up and makeup are deal killers for a lot of us. There's nothing wrong with guys who aren't attracted to you because you're in to that.

I'm not attracted to anything remotely feminine and a guy who does that kind of thing isn't going to attract me sexually. I don't feel bad about it, we can't help what we're sexually attracted to.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (22子コメント)

I figured the good vibes would be ended eventually. Listen dude, simplying people into masculine and feminine is archaic and the exact reason why I made this post. People can be super masculine and enjoy feminine things. No ones gonna wanna be with someone they have to walk on eggshells with. You missed the point of this whole thread by honing in on the feminine traits and ignoring the masculine ones.

[–]Tiki_Torch 2ポイント3ポイント  (21子コメント)

I didn't miss anything at all, but I do find it interesting how you want everyone to accept what you posted (which I do and mentioned when I said I'm glad you could be yourself) but criticize or get defensive when someone said they're not interested in guys that are into those kind of things.

If you want people to be ok with the way you are you have to be ok with people who aren't interested in that kind of thing.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (20子コメント)

I'm not asking anyone to be okay with who I am. I'm telling people it's okay to be who they are. I don't need anyone's validation; I've got a supportive family, a beautiful boyfriend, a dog, and a career that I'm happy with. All I ever ask is that people open their minds and do some research before they go off with their biases. The truth is, you're the kind of people I'm talking about. Its not about not being okay with you, it's about the realization that people are not as black and white as femme and masc. These things dehumanize people.

[–]Tiki_Torch 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

How am I the kind of people you're talking about? All I'm saying is realize people like different things and just because they're not interested in a guy with feminine interests doesn't mean they hate you.

Here's one (of many) reasons why I avoid guys with feminine interests. First, like I said I'm not attracted at all to femininity, its an instant turn off. I can't help that, its just how I am. Many other guys are the exact same way, people like different things.

Story time: I went on a date with a guy who listed himself as a masculine guy, stated he had all kinds of interests like snowboarding, kayaking, swimming, etc.

We go on a date and I find out he wasn't exactly truthful. He spent the whole night talking about celebrity gossip and Beyonces Drag Race and stuff. He then wanted me to stop at a store with him really quickly where he was looking through womens underwear, picking out purses, and as soon as some song he liked came on the radio he screamed across the store "tiki_torch, open up your inner fag and dance with me!". I wanted to crawl under a rock.

He's not the only date I've been on like that. I, and many other guys have stories of dudes like that, which is why we generally avoid guys with more feminine interests because it always ends up turning out that way no matter how many chances you give. Its not that we wish them any ill will, its just that due to experience we know it probably won't work out and why waste our time and their time?

[–]H3000 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You really shouldn't even have to be explaining this. Gay guys can be whoever they want to be and gay guys can like whoever they want to like.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's insulting that you not only generalize all men to be like that, but you keep failing to see what I'm saying. Liking feminine stuff, doesn't mean you act like that. I would be appalled by that behavior too, dude. You're not getting the point in trying to make here and see that people CAN like both masculine AND feminine things. Project your bad dates elsewhere and not on others by stereotyping all guys who like make up as flamers. Tell special effects make up artists that they're girly, go ahead. There are men who fall in between the lines. I stated I'm not like Jack from Will and Grace, nor am I Paul Bunyan. Some of us aren't one of the other, we just are who we are without interests. I'm really good at talking to people in drag because of how versatile my interests are. I legit got in a discussion about the hiking trails I hike in Maine with this dude who came to see my show. It was awesome. The last thing I wanna go do is pick out a purse, I'd rather go buy Magic the Gathering cards LOL.

[–]Tiki_Torch -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Facepalm I never said any of what you're assuming. It's not anywhere in my posts.

What part of "I'm very glad you can be yourself" are you missing?

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Oh, I dono, the whole thing you posted afterwards. You're the one who has made A LOT of assumptions based on the fact that I'm a drag queen. Not sure why you felt the need to unload the bad date baggage onto me, other than the serve a point that ALL men with femme interests act a certain way.

[–]Tiki_Torch 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've tried to keep this civil but it basically boils down to the fact that you want people to not judge you based on your interests, but you judge others based on theirs.

All I stated was that I'm not attracted to feminine things. If a guy is into feminine things its probably not going to work between us.

You took that as a personal insult instead of "Oh, ok people like different things."

Don't cry about people not accepting your interests when you can't accept theirs.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wasn't crying about anything. You're the one who felt the need to barge in here butt hurt about whatever you felt triggered by in my post. If me stating that things aren't so black and white means I'm not accepting of others, cool. Have a nice day, dude. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

People get so angry when the message, "Get to know someone before you write them off," is expressed. You're not being burned at the stake for your beliefs or your attractions, you're probably just missing out on some pretty cool guys that would blow your mind if you actually took a second to realize there are people who can like make up and look like a lumberjack too.

[–]jaces_dream 1ポイント2ポイント  (11子コメント)

Look, I know you're trying to empower guys with strong feminine sides. But, you're also shaming guys who aren't into guys with strong feminine sides.

Don't get me wrong, you're definitely saying that it's okay to be into feminine things, and that's a message that masculine gay guys with strong feminine sides need to hear. However, you're also saying that if you don't want to date someone who is a drag queen, then there's something wrong with you. And that's not okay.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (10子コメント)

No. I'm saying that you referring to me as ONLY a drag queen is dehumanizing and fucked up.

[–]jaces_dream 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Dude, chill out. I'm a gamer, a physicist, a swimmer, and a rock climber. If anyone referred to me as any one of these, I wouldn't be pissed. If anyone said that they could never date a physicist, that's fine. It has a measurable effect on my personality, and speaks to how I spend my time.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

How many times are you going to delete and recomment on this?

[–]jaces_dream 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, I'm really not looking to get into a cat fight with you. I've commented several times already that you raise the good point that people should be themselves. It'd just be nice if you'd acknowledge that it's okay if some people don't want to date you cuz you're a drag queen.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tell me where in my post this topic has anything to do with dating? The guy who made the comment brought up the dating issue. I don't care about who wants to date me because I'm already with the man I'm going to grow old with.

[–]Tiki_Torch 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Except no one said that.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

  • "He's not the only date I've been on like that. I, and many other guys have stories of dudes like that, which is why we generally avoid guys with more feminine interests because it always ends up turning out that way no matter how many chances you give."
  • "realize that things like the campy gay scene, drag and dressing up and makeup are deal killers for a lot of us."
  • "I went on a date with a guy who listed himself as a masculine guy, stated he had all kinds of interests like snowboarding, kayaking, swimming, etc. We go on a date and I find out he wasn't exactly truthful."

All these quotes generalize, dehumanize, condemn, and stereotype men based on their feminine interests. And again, you've COMPLETELY ignored the point of the post, saying that just because I have feminine interests, does not mean that I am not manly, nor does it cancel out my masculine interests. You are literally the type of man I'm talking about; someone that is so hung up on this stuff that you actually can't even properly compute the post in the first place because you only see words like drag queen and make up and jump down my throat with your nonsense. You gotta let go of the baggage dude because you're projecting it into this post and making it sound like I'm coming for guys who aren't attracted to effeminate men. If someone is completely out of your field of interest, that's one thing, but I can almost guarantee there's someone who likes what you like, but also happens to listen to Beyonce. Honestly, this post wasn't even about dating, LOL.

[–]Tiki_Torch -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I repeat, no one was dehumanizing anyone.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I guess you're just too set in your ways to understand how generalizations and lumping all people into one opinion you have is an issue.

[–]PhobosInAllOfUs 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

yep...that's it there.

[–]Captnspackle 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's a lumberjack and he's o k. He sleeps all night and he work all day. He wears high heels, he skips and jumps, he like to press wild flowers. On Wednesdays he goes shopping, and has buttered scones for tea!

[–]Agrus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Real men don't give a shit what other men think of them. I doff my chapeau.

[–]Drudicta [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

let's just sit around a campfire, in the middle of the woods, and sing through Cher's greatest hits album with BBQ sauce smeared across our face from the steak we just ate.

Can we wear girls clothes too please? =3 I almost NEVER get to wear girls clothes since I grew out of what I owned.

[–]kw329710 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think this should not only be about the gay population but for everyone in a free country. Every aspect of life is not black and white. In this day and age everyone expects us to define ourselves as fem, masc, gay, straight, bisex, asexual, trans, or something else. I think everyone needs to realize everyone is individual. Why do we need labels? Life is all an individual experience and realizing everyone has a different journey they follow through in this world is amazing. It does not matter what you are into because somewhere out there is someone into you. Everyone can be anyone to someone. Just be you. (I admit I find myself having trouble with this).

[–]MayoralCandidateAcquired Immune Deficiency SyndBROme [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Thank you, Jesus. This gives us infinite material at /r/gaybroscirclejerk .

[–]ZennithBarnes [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

My FAV campfire cher song.

[–]Votrelouvel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

But seriously, isn't steak sauce considered BBQ sauce???

[–]piinggu 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I thought that too apparently not

[–]Pm_me_yo_naughtybits 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You mean A1 or Heinz 57 then yes. But if your steak needs steak sauce then why bother eating steak

[–]kafkaismydad 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think I just fell in love a little. I'm a bartender in a dive bar, a carpenter and gardener, and one of those guys you want around when there's fisticuffs going down. I also do drag. And go camping. Hahaha. I'm not the only one!

[–]ghost_victim 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I love this! I feel the exact same way, except I don't do drag. I would if I could, because I love drag queens

[–]NuclearFridge -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I too like video games, fishing, and drag.

[–]STEVEusaurusREX -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I want to party with this guy.

[–]syzithryx -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Meanwhile my ultimate goal is to be like Andrej Pejic. Only worse: I want to be hot in a masculine way when I look like a guy, hot in a girly way when I look like a girl, and I want to be completely believable as either gender. I'm not sure if any transvestite or whatever has ever done that. I think that makes me genderqueer or something? Dunno, but it's what I want. As a guy I'm a gaybro, totally. As a girl I'd probably be a lesbian honestly. :3 My gayness is actually more important to me than my maleness, though that might sound a bit weird.

This doesn't have much to do with the subject at hand though but I just wanted to add to the convo. :)