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SOCJUSIt’s worse than Jerry Seinfeld says: PC is undermining free speech, expression, liberties - Salon.com (self.KotakuInAction)

frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate が 投稿

Salon printed a piece in defense of free speech in comedy. This is essentially an admission that the authoritarian left is losing the culture war.

https://archive.is/hnVGU

This is the same war that GamerGate activism is fighting, at its core. It's not just about ethics in gaming journalism. It never was.

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[–]AFCSentinel 87ポイント88ポイント  (15子コメント)

Salon out of all places? They are one of the worst PC rags.

[–]Comrade_Brother 22ポイント23ポイント  (7子コメント)

They had an article stating how violent protesting is a valid tactic. The things they write are often moronic, but not so much political correct.

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate[S] 51ポイント52ポイント  (0子コメント)

They were trying to legitimize the Baltimore riots with that piece. It was definitely in service of the SJW/PC agenda.

[–]FrinkleMcDoo 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

We need a mainstream outlet calling Salon out in its hypocrisy. They know they're losing the culture war, so they're trying to jump ships to avoid being discredited too.

[–]rbstewart7263 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

Keep in mind this could just be a fluke(one writers piece) and not indicative of a new trend or change of heart from salon.

[–]FrinkleMcDoo 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

Of course it's not a change of heart, it's a misdirection ploy. From what it looks like, they took an excerpt from another writer's work (specifically, a writer from Spiked) and made it into an article. In other words, none of their own writers wrote this, they had to borrow it from somewhere else to make themselves look like they defend free speech. If one of their own writers tried to write such an article, it would not be nearly as sincere.

[–]rbstewart7263 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Has something happened recently that would make them want to do that? unless I missed something I dont feel like we have hit that "watershed moment" where outlets are made to feel like they are under fire for promoting these post modernist idea's.

[–]FrinkleMcDoo 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't think there's been a clear watershed moment either, unless Sir Tim Hunt's vindication is getting more public attention than I thought.

[–]rbstewart7263 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

maybe,(strokes beard) I mean even Wu tweeted in his defense.

If there's one thing Ive noticed its that rads don't want the details of an outrage to come out. They just want you to know the headline, buy it, and then react! ("sir tim hunt said sexist thing! grr!!!") But when those details come out they go into damage control like what we are seeing.

I think today's rad feminism which to the chagrin of more reason minded fems will be known simply as 3rd wave feminism will go down in history the same way that communists in the 50's were known, As boorish, stuck up intellectual's who were often too privileged and naive to really know what they were talking about and be dismissed as such.

[–]KDulius 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

Clearing the decks for Hilary's white house campaign?

[–]Iconochasm 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

Honestly? Quite possibly. There was just a Netroots Nation event with the Dem presidential candidates where apparently no one was allowed to talk about anything except /#blacklivesmatter. O'Malley was booed off the stage for saying "All lives matter". If that kind of hardcore identity politics is where the Dem primary voters are, then Hillary!, being the more establishment candidate, is in some deep shit.

[–]Fat_Pony 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was worse than that. He was booed after he said "white lives matter". The "all lives matter" came after he said "white lives matter" and after the booing started.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/martin-omalley-all-lives-matter/index.html

Also the main theory is that these guys are astroturf brought in by Hilary supporters.

[–]KDulius 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm British so I don't follow American politics all that closely, but I'm sure I saw something on the twitters about her popularity dropping recently as well

[–]Iconochasm 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, she has the charisma of an ogre. The more people see her, the less they like her entitled ass.

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

She does. I mean, Monica was no supermodel, herself, but with competition like that, I can't blame Bill for going for cigar breaks.

[–]Bob9999999999999 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

When even Salon says you're too far to the left, you're too far to the left.

[–]randomcallsign 43ポイント44ポイント  (2子コメント)

They defend free speech and anti-PC when it suits them.
Don't let them make you think, for a second, they are for free-speech or defend your right to dissent from their opinion, or the opinion of the public. They are just gathering sympathy and moral high-ground for the sake of appeasing some, but they never support it to the letter of the word.
All free speech is equal, but there are some more equal than others, shitlord.

[–]Maelstrom52 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be fair, Mike Hume is not a standard Salon writer, so this doesn't necessarily reflect the ideas of most Salon readers, but at least those people might actually read it now.

[–]RedPill4LYF 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Salon is just another extension of Gawker in my mind.

[–]Meafy 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

Mike Hume (the author of this piece) is Spiked's editor at large.

[–]letitgo_obaminaver 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can tell without reading the byline due to that "reverse-Voltaire" tic that he apparently thinks is super clever and therefore uses constantly..

[–]ev1lb1t 26ポイント27ポイント  (33子コメント)

Wow, the comment section is SJW central:

"It's up to comedians to write jokes for new audiences"

Fuck these looney-toons, expecting to be catered to at the expense of 99.9% of people who are sane.

They probably think Amy Schumer is the "height of comedy".

People who seek comedy to laugh do not have to be your audience, people who seek comedy to laugh are over

[–]Y2KNW 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

"It's up to comedians to write jokes for new audiences"

So.. "comedy fans don't have to be the audience anymore. comedy fans are dead?"

[–]trulygenericname1 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

Naw, Amy Schumer was deemed racist not too long ago by these people.

[–]kamon123 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

Which is the usual cycle. Pander to sjws and they'll just eat you alive later.

[–]Solace1 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Pandering to SJW is like feeding a predator, hoping it would eat you last

[–]ev1lb1t [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm more concerned in that her sketches present instances of relational aggression (bullying) as if they're some kind of punchline.

No twists, no nothing, just someone being bullied and a laugh track.

People who find that funny rather than cringe-worthy are revealing something very dark about their own souls.

[–]Zerael25k get! Party! 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow, the comment section is SJW central:

Well.. It is Salon's audience afterall ;p

[–]SlowRollingBoil 1ポイント2ポイント  (23子コメント)

What's supposedly wrong with Amy Schumer? She talks about having sex a lot and has generally self-deprecating humor.

[–]gh0st3000 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Seriously, the last I heard, people were getting mad at her because her comedy routine has casual racism jokes in it. It seems clear to me that that isn't how she actually feels, since her whole routine is poking fun at a racially insensitive, vapid, morally bankrupt caricature. Depiction = endorsement, even if the depiction is negative.

[–]dougtulane 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pretending to not understand satire is one of the absolute hallmarks of SJW culture. See Suey Park, see sir Tim.

I mean, say what you want about religious fundamentalists and their lack of humor, they at least understand satire.

Also, Amy Schumer is funny. Trainwreck was great.

[–]SlowRollingBoil 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I like her, to be honest. It's not super basic stuff but also not on the level of Louis CK or anything. I'm sure her jokes that poke fun at race are doing just that - poking fun. You know, comedy. I wonder what these repressed SJWs think of Louis CK if they think Amy Schumer is racist.

[–]Lithovore 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Also a lot of good of racially motivated jokes (which I enjoy but sjw lunatics dont)

A quote from her show, while on a date with a black guy

have you ever done anal and if so, where is she buried?

[–]SlowRollingBoil 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I just watched that one. It was about a guy with a big dick but I don't believe she ever mentioned race. Even if she did, the joke has nothing to do with race.

[–]Lithovore 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

In the show she was sitting across the table from a black dude. Source: comedy central.

[–]SlowRollingBoil 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh yeah. Sorry, she reused that bit in Trainwreck and I combined them.

[–]Lithovore 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No problem, made me second guess myself and cant find the clip now. Have a colorful day!

[–]Iconochasm 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was the height of stupidity. It started when some tool called her out for racism, then admitted to having never seen a second of her show or stand-up, then listed a bunch of "good" comedians, all of whom have lengthy, non-PC bits on race in their kit.

[–]ev1lb1t 1ポイント2ポイント  (13子コメント)

My exposure to this piece of filth is her treating the cynical use of interested men for financial favors as a "punchline".

I mean, imagine if there were a male version of this sketch:

A woman asks "you really love me?" as she is seduced, cut to the morning, she wakes up and he's gone, starts crying, cue laugh track.

She is a bigoted man-hater.

She treats predation of innocent people as HILARIOUS, and people who laugh at vicious relational aggression like that are revealing something very dark about themselves.

[–]SlowRollingBoil -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

She is a bigoted man-hater.

I've watched much of her show, some interviews, and her most recent movie. Didn't see any evidence of this. I think you've taken offense to how she does role reversals (she's the one to love em and leave em rather than the guy). That's fine. You've been offended and you don't like her. Cool beans.

But "she is a bigoted man-hater" really isn't grounded in reality.

[–]I4dcQsEpLzTHvD1qhlDE 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've watched much of her show, some interviews, and her most recent movie. Didn't see any evidence of this.

Really? Her entire schtick is "lol, even a fat ugly skank like me can take advantage of men, isn't it funny!".

[–]ev1lb1t -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm referring to this sketch

Where's the "punch-line" again? Oh, right, it's where the "womyn" in her sketches psychopathically abuse the good intentions of the men around them to extract financial favors, spitting upon basic humanity in the process.

Predation of innocent people is absolutely HILARIOUS amirite?

Not only is she is a bigoted man-hater, she's an unrepentant advocate of bullying.

she does role reversals (she's the one to love em and leave em rather than the guy)

This statement of yours is also sexist as all hell. Only scumbags are like this, not men, not women, and associating this only with men shows you have also swallowed one of feminism's many sexist canards whole.

[–]SlowRollingBoil 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I didn't think we had carebears like you in pro-GG. Remind me again how a joke in a sketch comedy show always reflects the personal beliefs and ideologies of its actors.

The sketch was a joke. Not a great one, but a joke. For you to get so offended at this I can only assume there's something more personal going on that I don't really want to get involved in.

you have also swallowed sexism whole.

LOL, OK buddy.

[–]ev1lb1t -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The sketch was a joke.

Emotionally manipulating men to extract money without a thought in the world for their humanity is a joke.

No absurdity, no special qualifiers, just out-right exploitation of their humanity and good-will.. it's FUNNY

LOL, OK buddy.

SRS or /r/feminism , a cancerous place where you belong.

[–]Sareed [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Holy shit you missed the entire point of the sketch you dummy.

[–]Tumblr_PrivilegeMAN [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

So change the channel. You have issues being this butthurt over a comedian. Comedy is meant to provoke thought and emotion, you are obviously unbalanced.

[–]oldirtybaron -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

My exposure to this piece of filth is her treating the cynical use of interested men for financial favors as a "punchline".

Removed from all context, it's easy to see how this opinion of Amy Schumer develops. The thing is, a lot of her humour is based on subversion. The idea is that societal expectations dictate that a woman doing the kinds of things she allegedly does in her stand up are traditionally depicted as masculine behaviour. What provokes the laughter is that she's a woman and she's just as much of a whore mongering, spiteful, vindictive, and downright sociopathic monster as the men that are often accused/demonized for that behaviour. The joke isn't that she's doing it to men but that she's not any different than men.

I personally don't like her comedy, but I understand how it's effective for other people.

[–]ev1lb1t 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

All i see is predation of innocent people with no twist at all.

It's glorification of the darkest of human social behavior, relational aggression, it's FUNNY, right?

[–]Sareed -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Holy hypocrisy batman. There have been male versions of this sketch for fucking ever. One of the oldest goddamned things is sitcom is a male character who leaves before the woman wakes up. Are you new to comedy or something?

[–]ev1lb1t [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

When that behavior is depicted coming from men, it generally doesn't come with a laugh track and is followed by just desserts of some sort for the offending male.

[–]ThisIsFrigglishThe 0.0065% [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Did you never watch Friends, then?

[–]Sareed [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No it's definitely followed by a laugh track. An absolute fuck ton of sketches and sitcom have loose men as the protagonists. One of the oldest jokes is the clingy woman who takes a one night stand as a marriage proposal.

Fucking wake up dude.

[–]_pulsar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

People who seek comedy to laugh are over

Lol what?

[–]Sareed -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You know we said the exact same thing about minstrel shows back in the day right?

[–]Anadis 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Never let anyone forget that they're part of the problem.

[–]GoonZL 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

"This is the same war that GamerGate activism is fighting, at its core. It's not just about ethics in gaming journalism. It never was."

A bit inflammatory and unnecessary.

GamerGate is different things to different people. Ethics in journalism is at its core. Since most of the unethical behavior and those defending such behavior were SJWs/feminists/PCmorons, it was only natural for us to actively resist them, So it's not an either/or thing. If PETA starts attacking games and says that games promote animal cruelty since every games has a hunting part these days, we'd oppose them just as much as the SJWs.

In summary, Salon is still shit. It's fighting The Mary Sue for the title of the worst online dumpster of stupidity.

[–]RavingElephant 5ポイント6ポイント  (9子コメント)

How can you tell who's winning?

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate[S] 17ポイント18ポイント  (8子コメント)

Salon printed a piece in defense of free speech in comedy.

[–]IP_Anonymoose 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

So if they printed a something about GamerGate being dead (again), would that mean we were losing?

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

Them holding the line means no change whatsoever. Them taking a step back means they're losing. This is especially true for SJWs, who never take a step back, no matter how much they're exposed as liars, harassers, hypocrites, etc. Their ideology forbids it. Imagine how bad things must be for them that they had to do this.

[–]Awaited_in_Valhalla -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

That seem like an unfalsifiable hypothesis.

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

No. It's both verifiable and falsifiable.

[–]dougtulane -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

One of the dumbest things I see out of GG is the ready assumption that outlets like Salon are hive minds with conspiring editors.

Salon has demonstrated that it gives its authors leeway.

I guess I should take my first sentence back when I look at a site like Mother Jones, which does push specific narratives from multiple authors.

[–]Agkistro13 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Very few people in GG believed that journalism outlets operated in that way UNTIL it was proven to us by the way they handled GG coverage.

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll grant that some outlets allow a variety of views. Real Clear Politics is one of them, for instance. Salon is mostly certainly not one of them. They've amply proven that over the past year.

[–]VidiotGamerTrigger Warning: Misogynerd 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's actually an exert from a book called Trigger Warning by Mick Hume. I wouldn't necessarily say this has anything to do with the opinion of the Salon Editorial staff at all.

I mean, some credit for running the exert. But this isn't Salon's editorial.

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is about Salon's willingness to print this message at all, regardless of who pens it.

[–]Gazareth 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's true. PC has always been in direct contention with free speech. The idea is that there have to be compromises in order to make everyone safer, but it is nonsense. As Carlin said:

"I'm not sure silencing people or forcing them to alter their speech is the best method for solving problems that go much deeper than speech."

[–]DeadGamerWalking 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lol don't think Salon has the moral high ground here. So are winning the culture war?

[–]GamerGateFan 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Salon is not admitting or supporting anything, this is an advertisement consisting of an excerpt for a book that is going on sale within the next few days.

I doubt anybody actually read it that works at salon, other than a cursory glance and for formatting.

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm not seeing any indication that this is sponsored content. If it is, and if Salon is not stating it, that's unethical.

[–]GamerGateFan 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

They are probably going around it by considering him guest writer, because this is his only contribution: http://www.salon.com/writer/mick_hume/

Excerpted from “Trigger Warning: Is the Fear of Being Offensive Killing Free Speech” by Mick Hume. Published by William Collins © Mick Hume 2015. All rights reserved.

Whether William Collins paid for that spot or not, that is another issue.

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Whether William Collins paid for that spot or not, that is another issue.

That's what I mean. This is obviously promoting the author's book, but whether consideration was paid or not is at the crux of the issue. The lack of any sponsored content indication means Salon is claiming this is native content, and therefore subject to editorial control.

[–]mnemosyne-0000#BotYourShield 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Archive links for this post:

I am Mnemosyne, goddess of memory. I remember so you don't have to.

[–]dontmindmeIworkhere 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is essentially an admission that the authoritarian left is losing the culture war

Pretty much, Salon exists solely to expel putrid vitriol.

Man their target audience is getting butthurt.

[–]tetsugakusei 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some pro pc types 20 years back could be seriously funny. Stewart Lee in this clip brilliantly mocks anti-pc views.

I particularly like his set on Muslims.

"When we said make fun of Islam, Stwe, we didn't mean like that, where you have to know something. ..."

It's remarkably clever comedy, although far too rare on that side of the political spectrum.

[–]LacosTacos 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's not just about ethics in gaming journalism. It never was.

Maybe for you. There are areas that SJW have created for themselves that most of us could care less about. The gaming community and the press that covers it was never one of those places. We saw what they did to the movement to overturn Citizens United ruling. They were not going to do the same with calling out gaming journalism.

[–]vonmonologue 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's fair. I don't give a shit what they do on Tumblr for instance. Or San Francisco.

It's when they come into my spaces and try to dictate to me how I need to change to make the space theirs instead.

[–]Earl_of_sandwiches 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Saying you don't mind SJWs when they aren't bothering people is like saying you don't mind murderers when they aren't killing people.

[–]Tarnsman4Life 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel like Salon jumping on a cause is the equivalent of when my grandmother tells me it is time to buy a stock. That ship has sailed.

[–]TayNez 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't know too much about Mick Hume but that was a really solid excerpt from his book. The quality of his writing compared to the Salon staff is is exceptional.

[–]Frittern 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Journalism right now is at the point where their throwing out shit and seeing what sticks and what sticks best is the most noxious reaction inducing crap you can imagine. The essential problem with fostering a putrid environment is that it turns people out and the winners in the festering Gawker inspired environment compete in an environmentally destructive way diminishing the audience participation and respect. Thus reading media content becomes something akin to rubber necking at a ugly car crash. It'll get a click and a couple second scan but little fucking else.

There is a reason so many people go right to the comment sections, because regular peoples reaction and the content they create is superior to the steaming piles of crap their being served.

Eventually quality will return but I don't think it will come out of the establishment, rather a way for the public to monetize independent quality writers will emerge independent and free from the publishers driving need to chase and bag the nearest easiest buck.

[–]Feel_Free_To_Downvot 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nice try Salon...nice try....Hope GGers are like elephants and never forget shit Salon was doing past few years