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[MV]Stellar - Vibrato M/V (youtube.com)

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[–]alleybetwixtJYJ 25ポイント26ポイント  (40子コメント)

I recognize this as a failing on my part, but this kind of stuff is just all kinds of confusing and alarming to me.

I identify on the asexual spectrum, so through this 'hobby' of following Kpop I've learned to compartmentalize the overtly sexual stuff and accept it in a conceptual sense. It's all good. But then there are some MVs that are essentially softcore porn. Body parts. Groping. Touching. Sexual imagery. And it gets more difficult for me to accept it as is.

Then there's this video, which is so extreme with the imagery. Making sure there are asses and boobs everywhere. Actually, cutting down the frame to focus on purely asses and boobs. And then vulvas everywhere. Vulvas for days and days. And I admit that there is some level of self-awareness and creativity by the director(s). Being very direct about the performance being explicitly and purposefully about sex and objectification and sexy women and vulvas.

Which provides a way for me to accept the MV as a well-considered concept again.

But then there's this wrench in the works that I can't ignore. If this was a Beyonce video, I'd be 100% cool with it, because as far as I know, she exerts artistic control about her own presentation. But it's not Beyonce. I highly doubt this is the brainchild of any of these women. This is their company's choice, their company's song, and the women are wearing the clothing and dancing the choreography and performing in the video in a way that is demanded of them. And THAT makes me fucking uncomfortable. because I can't see how that is anything but pretty serious exploitation.

Man... I dunno. I probably shouldn't be upset about this, but I am. It goes beyond what makes me personally uncomfortable to thinking of the position these women are in... and that's where it gets downright disturbing.

Also because the sex stuff is foreign to me, it just reminds me of being on my period. And that shit ain't fun.

[–]nighoblivionA Pink 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

it just reminds me of being on my period

As I said in the teaser thread, Digipedi went all menstrual blood.

[–]alleybetwixtJYJ 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seriously! Lol. They do a good job with the metaphorical objects and stuff. Not just in this MV. EXID's 'Up & Down' comes to mind as well.

It's cool on its own (even if my brain interprets it as icky)... just bothered me in context with the performance shots of the members.

[–]SHADOWBOXINGZAAce Of Angels 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

You said it as well as I could. There's a part of me that believes that maybe the girls of Stellar are thinking that maybe even this is too extreme. It calls into question the sort of role sex plays in the proliferation of kpop, and whether too much of it is a concern.

Of course, this is /r/kpop we're talking about. A good quarter of the male fans in here are only fans because it fulfills their Asian girl fetish, and don't want any sort of supposed 'SJW's' to ruin the fun. The downvoted and deleted comments in this comment chain prove this fairly well.

[–]NewbieSoneSatbyeol[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Please don't intentionally provoke fights.

[–]RMcD94 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Baseless statistics to go along with unfounded accusations from a slut shaming holier than the thou comment, as long as you feel superior am I right?

[–]kitchenmaniac111EXID [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Its a troll, lol. Dont feed. This is his 4th/5th acct.

[–]RMcD94 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Ah that explains a lot, especially the meta reference to sjw.

[–]kitchenmaniac111EXID [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah i could probably create a comment generator for him. Its either complaining about mods/the sub, complaining about people calling others sjws, or complaining about people liking asian girls lol. this is his 5th acct...

[–]vosdkaOrange Caramel 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Cracking up because fellow asexual here--

Also because the sex stuff is foreign to me, it just reminds me of being on my period. And that shit ain't fun.

This is exactly the thought I had from seeing the trailer to seeing the MV.

[–]alleybetwixtJYJ 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Indeed! Rock on. *high-five*

[–]TonerKebabT-ara 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

I'm getting tired of all this depiction of Kpop idols as slaves of their companies.

Regarding schedules, it's true. Some idols (B.A.P come to mind) work/have worked like dogs for their companies for little compensation in return. However, the girls in Stellar are not trafficked sex slaves who are literally forced to whore themselves out for audiences. If you watch Minhee's appearances on that underrated idol star show recently, she oozes confidence and sexuality and seems to revel in it.

It may be hard to imagine as an asexual person but there exist people out there who love to flaunt their sex appeal, the whole "if you've got it then flaunt it" kind of deal.

It's cool that you realize that no Kpop video will ever cater to asexual tastes (the industry is based on visuals and sex sells) and have learned to compartmentalize though.

[–]alleybetwixtJYJ 18ポイント19ポイント  (8子コメント)

It may be hard to imagine as an asexual person but there exist people out there who love to flaunt their sex appeal, the whole "if you've got it then flaunt it" kind of deal.

This isn't hard for me though. I totally get this. I thought HyunA's 'Red' last year was great. GaIn's stuff is fantastic and I praise her autonomy to take those risks. But have all the members in Stellar, former and current, been totally on board with these concepts? If the current members are truly enthusiastic about doing this, I'd accept it. If it could be guaranteed that they all support this and aren't giving a PR-trained answer, I would have zero qualms about it.

But I've followed Kpop long enough to know how often idols are unhappy with their concepts, feel uncomfortable with them, but have no choice in the matter if they want to continue working. This happens in the huge companies too, but is especially true with the little companies. The structural hierarchy in the system is a real thing, and there is plenty of evidence that kids have been exploited in ways they can't escape from without serious consequences.

[–]kitchenmaniac111EXID [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Gain has little to no autonomy. Even she said earlier this year her concept was picked and had no say and barely understood it.

[–]TonerKebabT-ara 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

  • Hyosung and Hana hated it at first when Secret had to do Shy Boy.

  • Taeyeon cried when she first heard the demo for Gee and hated it.

  • Yura felt strange that the director focused so much on her ass in the skin-colored dress in the music video of Female President.

Yeah, there are examples of idols having to be coerced into concepts but it's quite apparent that Stellar are at least comfortable (if not pursuing) the sexy concepts that they're doing. Idols can be coerced into something for a while but they can't build their entire careers over it unless they have it in themselves to do so. The girls have to face their family and friends at the end of the day after all.

For all you know, the four girls have signed off on the idea that in order to gain fame and success (for them anyway) they have to do it this way.

Hell, for all we speculators know - Stellar is a group of four exhibitionists and they're fucking loving this.

[–]alleybetwixtJYJ 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm with you. I just wish this wasn't up for speculation either way. I want to know without a doubt that they're cool with this, ya know?

[–]inagalaxyfarfarawayVIXX 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

this interview has been pretty important to me for a while now. Jisook from Rainbow, Gayoung from Stellar, and Subin from Dal Shabet talk about sexy concepts and how they work with their respective agencies.

(If you want to watch from the start of their interview, it's at 8:36)

[–]alleybetwixtJYJ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Can I ask what you take away from this interview? (I know tone doesn't translate well online... please understand I'm asking from a place of openness, curiosity, and genuine interest.)

I hugely appreciate you linking this. Thank you. I would like to see more interviews about such things with the idols themselves. Unfortunately, it did very little to comfort me. The main points expressed by the ladies were that:

  1. Doing provocative/sexy concepts are a requirement to get any attention in the industry.
    • This is fairly obvious, but I wonder if there are other ways to get attention that are more creative and innovative. Orange Caramel gets more positive attention than After School for example. And if the only way for a group to gain attention is by being sexually suggestive to this level, perhaps the system itself needs an overhaul.
  2. The nature of the performance doesn't matter to them. It's purely an opportunity to work hard and become better performers.
    • I accept this. But again, if hypothetically they were given the option to do a sexy concept like Stellar's or something distinctly different, with the same resulting attention, would they ALL still choose the sexy concept?
  3. It may make family members uncomfortable, but ideally they recognize it as simply a job.
    • This is upsetting to me. People who care about them are potentially stuck between supporting their loved one's dream and resenting the manner in which they must achieve it.
  4. The headlines criticizing the concepts are making it seem worse than it actually is.
    • Irrelevant in my view, since I see Korea's sex-negative attitude as a problem. 'Sexy' is fine with me. It's the exploitation within the system that is my concern.

Do you have any insights with any of these? Or got something out of it I missed?

[–]TonerKebabT-ara -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

You aren't going to get that confirmation from them or any group because most Kpop fans don't overthink this sort of thing or need validation that idols are okay with what they're performing.

[–]alleybetwixtJYJ 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd imagine it's less about other-thinking, because I've seen many Kpop fans who share my feelings. But it's more that the women themselves wouldn't be allowed to admit they loved the concept due to the conservative culture without getting criticized for it. A few of them are okay with taking those hits, and they do, but not everyone will want to deal with that. Understandably.