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Regarding Queens and Cultural Appropriation (self.rupaulsdragrace)

1sttimeindrgzatabawl が 投稿

I have to admit that it's very unnerving to see so many people brush off the concept of appropriation as if it weren't a real problem. Especially given that many of the drag race fans are younger. I've seen too many people on this sub saying that "drag is meant to be subversive" and other ways of excusing/justifying problematic behavior. I completely understand the history of drag being a politicized statement and the role that queens/trans women played in the movement for queer rights. But that does not give the queens (especially those who are cisgender, white men) the right to traipse around without consequence just because they're "pushing the boundaries" on gender norms.

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[–]six_feet_fiveGet a grip, get a life, and get over it 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

This should have been a comment in the Adore bindi post. You are not a special snowflake needing your own post.

[–]BroadwayIcunt 30ポイント31ポイント  (0子コメント)

Guys I'm so offended! I'm Mexicanand Jinx dressed as the "Dia de Los muertos " and she not Mexican! She better give the crown back! Hahahahahahahahahah.

There's real problems out there. A drag queens outfit is not a real problem

[–]TigergardeIggy Azalea... is... ... a racist. 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

oh my god enoughhhhhh

[–]kingpingu80% Sexy, 20% Disgusting. 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Appropriat(iv)e flair is appropriat(iv)e.

[–]havana_fair 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

The problem I have with this is that if you take that argument to it's logical conclusion, no-one would ever be able to be creative about anything that's not within their 5km radius. Which means that no-one is going to be exposed to anything that isn't from their circle.

When Madonna used the Japanese Kimono, I became interested in the history and culture of the geisha and learned a lot (and eventually moved to Japan).

It would be a pretty boring world if we didn't use things from other cultures. Are you going to stop using arabic numbers (which came from Hindi language)? Are you going to stop using the English language because it borrows from almost every other language out there? Remember language is one of the most important parts of cultural identity. Ask any Japanese person about their language - language is culture.

[–]UpInRusWigs#TeamMKD 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

You stop that. You STOP acting like culture changes and moves. How dare you inject reality into this conversation. RACIST!

[–]havana_fair 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sorry to be a party-pooper ;)

[–]HauntedFurniture 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. If you go back far enough, there's pretty much nothing in Western culture that isn't the product of interaction with other cultures. And tbh I find the idea that cultures shouldn't mix a bit creepy - a bunch of (mostly) white people trying to maintain cultural 'purity'... where have I heard that before...?

[–]katyaskidshe done birthed me 31ポイント32ポイント  (23子コメント)

Regarding Queens and Cultural Appropriation Let Me Ride The Controversy For Internet Points

FTFY

[–]Salchicha#beyondthisplanetREKT 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Too bad self posts don't give karma and OP would not gain any for beating this dead horse anyway

[–]kingbanjee 22ポイント23ポイント  (2子コメント)

But why? Why is it a big deal? Why do people care? Why are we talking about Adore's fucking bindi? Why? Why do you guys consider this activism?

[–]BroadwayIcunt 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

Someone bored in front of their computer thinking they are activist! Stop them drag queens! Hahahaha

[–]dsaitken 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

because anything a white person does is #EVIL

(jk in case it wasn't obvious)

[–]janpianomusicOH MY GOD I BROKE YOUR RABBIT YES I DID AND I'LL BREAK IT AGAIN 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

You want to talk about problematic behaviour? Let's talk about gay men in the Middle East being fed laxatives after their assholes have been sewn shut! Let's talk about women being raped and the rapist not being charged! Let's talk about Indian women being sold to men "into marriage"! Let's talk about shooting black people in a church because they're black!

Priorities?

[–]Hallal_HeelsBECAUSE I AM WHAT? SICKENING. 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

[–]daddysgirl666 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Cultural appropriation? More like cultural appreciation. Can I get an amen?

[–]laceynope 17ポイント18ポイント  (11子コメント)

2015: The Year Where Everybody Got Offended By Everything.

[–]oath2orderkatya, ornacia, and miss fame's chickens for All-Stars 2 18ポイント19ポイント  (2子コメント)

2015: The Year Where Everybody Continued To Get Offended By Everything.

Fixed.

[–]laceynope 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yessss!

[–]oath2orderkatya, ornacia, and miss fame's chickens for All-Stars 2 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Uh oh. The downvote brigade is here! Run lacey run!

[–]BroadwayIcunt 15ポイント16ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yes! Omg Katya dressed as a Russian hooker and she's not Russian! Omg how offensive! Hahahahah LOL

[–]Salchicha#beyondthisplanetREKT 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

"Activists" who care oh so much about "cultural appropriation" don't care about Katya because they don't care about white people or their cultures. Katya is an Irish man who uses stereotypes of Russian people for her character and she is massively popular for it. This sounds like the kind of thing they'd be concerned about right? Nope.

[–]Madame_de_Cunt 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well there was a time Irish people weren't considered white, so, we can't culturally appropriate because we're like a historically oppressed people.

[–]dsaitken 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes. These same people are the ones who would say "Shut up you cracker ass honkey" and then say "Um, no I can't be racist because i'm not white... only white people can be racist...Do you really think reverse racism is a thing? hahaha drinks white tears. SHITLORD"

[–]oath2orderkatya, ornacia, and miss fame's chickens for All-Stars 2 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh, she's not actually Russian? Huh. Never knew that, always assumed she was.

[–]dsaitken 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

/u/oath2order Katya's real name is Brian McCook

Mc

[–]Thebeezzle 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm offended by this topic

[–]Hallal_HeelsBECAUSE I AM WHAT? SICKENING. 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Killed it.

[–]listerinecocktails 12ポイント13ポイント  (12子コメント)

If someone is mocking someone else's culture, then yes, that's a problem.

If someone is using something from another culture to enhance themselves because it's beautiful, then what's the problem??

[–]KoreanButts#BeyondThisPlanetBeautiful #CosmicQueen #Fameily #TheBrand 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lol @ u

[–]lukendyerget ready for Merle Ginsberg's drag race 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Firstly I'll say congratulations to everyone agreeing with the post, since you're standing up for your beliefs knowing you will be downvoted. However I have not come here to agree, merely to ask questions, since I'm a little unclear on the matter. Nobody who is against Adore here is really giving any substantive argument, so I'd like to know:

  1. Is it only cultural appropriation with regards to certain cultures? Manila parodied the Chinese, raja dressed as a Native American, Europeans are frequently parodied, but this is seen as just drag and no one complains. So why is this so different?

  2. If dressing as a Hindu is appropriating their culture, is dressing as a woman appropriating the female gender? Could we go as far as to say it appropriates the 'transition' from man to woman that transgender people make? Or is this not the same?

  3. If Adore is wearing the attire in appreciation and reverence of the culture, how is she appropriating it? She is by no means trying to associate it with herself, and is doing it with the culture in mind.

Sorry if my questions appear rude or stupid, it's just that I have always believed that impersonation is the highest form of flattery, and am personally honoured if a drag queen wants to parody my culture, so I'm failing to see how if something is done with respect and understanding, it is appropriation

[–]hobonersI feel grape! 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

Why does this deserve its own post?

[–]Melkr_ 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Appropriation is not a problem.

Culture is meant to be shared.

Your culture didnt arise in a vacuum, it borrowed from other cultures.

Symbols of one culture can be used by another culture and regain a different, new meaning without harming the existence of the first symbol.

Stop using "problematic" for everything.

[–]lassidoggyBut girl, how does she breathe? 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honey, Tumblr must be leaking again. :/

[–]oath2orderkatya, ornacia, and miss fame's chickens for All-Stars 2 4ポイント5ポイント  (11子コメント)

I highly doubt Adore was wearing the bindi to purposefully be offensive.

The one thing I want to ask the people, especially you, /u/1sttimeindrgzatabawl, since you're the one who seems to think that Adore wearing the bindi is cultural appropriation (given that you made this thread), I want to ask you, and everybody else offended, are you Hindi? If yes, then feel free to be offended and I apologize for arguing here. If you are not Hindi, are you aware of the historical context of the bindi without doing a quick Wikipedia research five minutes before you respond to this? If yes, then feel free to be offended and I apologize for arguing here. If no, then kindly shut up.

Somehow though, I think that most people who call out "cultural appropriation" on people who wear the bindi are people who don't know the historical context of the bindi, and are just looking to be offended by something.

[–]BroadwayIcunt 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

Ummmm Adore is Latino not white! And go back way back! Madonna Frozen Video? Madonna Vogue? Is nothing new. Just young people online looking for something to bitch about

[–]oath2orderkatya, ornacia, and miss fame's chickens for All-Stars 2 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

Just young people online looking for something to bitch about

Did you mean: Tumblr ?

[–]dsaitken 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

I use tumblr to look at pictures of naked men with beards to masturbate to or actual art.

[–]BroadwayIcunt 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hahaha yes

[–]dsaitken 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Adore is white

Latino is not a race. It means you are from a Latin American country. A latino can be any race black, white, mestizo, mixed race, amerindian, etc. etc.

[–]dsaitken 5ポイント6ポイント  (16子コメント)

Its not a real problem.

Using the phrase "problematic" shows that you are an idiot asshole

For the love of god you sound like a caricature of a tumblerina

[–]Flazedevil 2ポイント3ポイント  (17子コメント)

there is no especially, if you see it as wrong then you should see it as wrong for all groups equally.

[–]dootington 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not going to entertain drama, confusion, chaos madness.

The catchphrase saturation can be compiled into a drag bible at this point eeee

[–]BaldingBitchThat's why you're Frankie 3ポイント4ポイント  (18子コメント)

The bindi, as well as many other well known religious articles like the crucifix have been slowly becoming de-sanctified for centuries. This has happened before: do you have a Christmas tree perchance? Are you Germanic and using it to worship Woden? OK, cool probably not. We are witnessing a very natural progression at work here ppl.

This has less to do with Adore appropriating a very sacred practise - even in Asia the bindi has secular, aesthetic, nominal, and religious uses.

[–]LemonCherryLime 2ポイント3ポイント  (64子コメント)

So if I'm a black man I can't wear my kilt? I can't wear my cozy moccasin slippers? Well that's no fun!

[–]SEUNGRlBITCH DON'T COME GIVE ME NO CHECK, I DON'T TRUST CHECKS 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

quiero taco bell

[–]Salchicha#beyondthisplanetREKT 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

inb4 "stop appropriating Mexican culture"

[–]JambeardBettie needs a spank 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

appropriation

problematic behavior

cisgender, white men

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[–]argylenavyThis is not NCIS. 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your username is a quote from a movie about the black, poor, trans community. Girl, bye.

[–]ajmart23 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

Is there such a thing as gender appropriation?

Because I'm fucking up in arms that these drag queens are doing it.

Up. In. Arms.

[–]okaywerkput on the heels and shut up! 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

!!!!!

why is it ok for men to dress as woman but its not okay for someone to put a fucking bindi on bc they think its pretty??

[–]meldolphinI can move my body in a compelling way 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Because there's nothing sacred about being a woman.

Source: am lady, it's not super special.

[–]okaywerkput on the heels and shut up! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

thats definitely an opinion

[–]dsaitken 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is no logical reason

[–]BroadwayIcunt 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Bravo!! Exactly' that bitch from Tumblr is just bored

[–]dsaitken -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mary Cheney says ....yes!

[–]myhatrulesHoney Mahogany's #1 fan 5ポイント6ポイント  (23子コメント)

TLDR; I am a white non-Hindu person, speaking for people I am not a part of, about issues that do not affect me, and complaining on a subreddit that I can easily unsubscribe from

[–]1sttimeindrgzatabawl[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (22子コメント)

How selfish you must be to think that someone can only care about things that affect them directly.

[–]punkbrad7 3ポイント4ポイント  (10子コメント)

How entitled of you to tell other people what they should be offended by.

[–]argylenavyThis is not NCIS. 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Aren't you just appropriating their struggle for oppression points, then?

[–]myhatrulesHoney Mahogany's #1 fan 3ポイント4ポイント  (9子コメント)

You are speaking for groups you are not a part of. You are a whitey white mayonaise on white bread white person speaking for PoC, and clearly aren't speaking for what they think, only what you think.

[–]1sttimeindrgzatabawl[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (8子コメント)

I'm absolutely as white as it gets but I constantly have made it clear that my opinions on this are directly taken from Hindus and other poc. My personal voice is irrelevant in this and I know that. Doesn't mean that I can't use my voice to help support those who have been saying this stuff for years.

[–]chacochaco 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm Deaf which is another marginalized group whose voices are taken away by hearing people who think they're fit to be the ~mouthpiece~ and "official" authority of all things Deaf. They do sometimes say the same things that we're saying but it's still not okay. Let us Deaf people be the ones saying it and starting discussions about deaf-related topics.

You are othering poc and taking their agency & voice away. You've never had it done to you so you have absolutely no idea how it feels so, take it from an actual member of a marginalized group - stop. It doesn't help the cause to have a white person with no affiliation with the issue at all picking fights.

That is not how an ally behaves.

[–]myhatrulesHoney Mahogany's #1 fan 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

I'm absolutely as white as it gets

If you are as white as it gets, then don't speak for PoC, especially when you don't know what you're talking about. The girl who made that original post calling out Adore for "cultural appropriation" wasn't even Hindu. If you aren't a part of their culture, you don't get to speak for them, rather than letting them speak for themselves. You're a white person speaking over PoC. Stop "appropriating" their issues.

[–]1sttimeindrgzatabawl[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (4子コメント)

I literally just said that I'm not speaking for poc. they are speaking for themselves but you seem to have a selective attention

[–]listerinecocktails 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

omg. please do not link jezebel and think it's the experience of an actual sane person.

[–]1sttimeindrgzatabawl[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Okay cool here's another

[–]listerinecocktails 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

feminspire, but whatever I'll take it.

if you are going to put a bindi on your forehead, please take a minute to research what it means and what it means that you

So it's cool, just be respectful.

oh and here's a comment from the article:

I agree, some people do share the article's perspective-however, as a Hindu woman myself, I strongly believe that the majority would disagree. Sharing and enjoying each other's cultures is a beautiful thing. Anyhow, I definitely respect sharing the opinions and perspective of those in the minority on this subject. However, it is this article specifically that I have issues with. For instance, "When I see beautiful white girls wearing bindis, I feel conflicted", is the author fine with unattractive women wearing bindis? On that note, there are white women who practice Hindism-so why single out white women as opposed to non-Hindu women? And what about black women? Would she be upset to see a black woman wearing bindis? Furthermore, would she be upset over a white male with an om tattoo? The om is a significantly more sacred symbol than the bindi. Why is this not addressed in the article? As the author states in the article, she was teased throughout her childhood by girls who happened to be white because of her culture. Because of this, seeing white women now participating in the very culture she was teased for must be very painful to her. However resenting all white women for the actions of a small group, and then masking this resentment by claiming to be offended on religious grounds is absolutely deplorable. The author may not consciously be aware of her true motives for this article, but all the same, it is wrong.

So iunno the point you're trying to prove?

[–]myhatrulesHoney Mahogany's #1 fan 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel like she just googled "bindi cultural appropriation" and posted the first thing she found without reading it.

[–]GretaGarbologyI'll be your love pinata. 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So you are appropriating the opinions of other cultures?

[–]emmadonohoewhere did you get a loaf of bread? 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

GUYS IM SO OFFENDED IM SCOTTISH AND ONE TIME I SAW VOILENT CHACHKI WEAR SOME TARTAN OMG GUYS SHE HATES ALL SCOTS AND THIS IS CULTURAL APPROPRIATION #JUSTICE4THEKILT.

This is how you sound right now.

[–]ivandelvecchioBettie needs a spank. 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

"Dia de los Muertos" its a very religious and very deep-rooted mexican tradition, I didn't saw anybody bitching about when Jinkx dressed inspired by it back on S5 (if any, I would be offended by her poor execution, tbqh), so why now everybody is hating on Adore? I think at this point we're just trying to be offended, by anything. Can we just suck some dick and relax for a minute. God.

[–]imuahmanila"When life gives you lemons, make Trixie Mattel." -Maya Angelou 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually, some people did, which is all the more ridiculous since Ru required a "Latina" runway theme. Considering that, Jinkx showing something that's actually culturally important is the opposite of appropriation (actual appropriation and not Tumblr appropriation) and if anyone was offensive it was Detox for coming out in a pant suit and a sombrero.

[–]gr4pefruits 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's a difference between appreciating the beauty of something enough to incorporate into your drag (which Raja, and most recently Adore, have been shown to do) and acting like an entitled brat, throwing around "this is drag, mamaaaa" as though people don't have the right to be offended.

If drag queens and comedians have the right to push boundaries and question the norm, then we, as the audience, have the right to be offended.

That said, the whole Adore thing was blown waaay out of proportion. People keep mentioning the girl on twitter being muslim, which has nothing to do with anything, and it honestly leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Some racist shit is going on in that thread and I'm not here for a second of that.

[–]BlasiFeelsSwiftthe shade is real 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

just don't

[–]Dejahthoris22positiveenergiespositivenergies 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow, op has -100 comment karma overall

[–]kingdom6656 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

But that does not give the queens (especially those who are cisgender, white men)

I try and stay out of appropriation topics because I feel as as an American I cannot speak for other cultures, but why does gender identity or race have anything to do with how acceptable it is to appropriate a culture that you aren't a part of?

[–]BaldingBitchThat's why you're Frankie 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think anyone thinks Adore is being especially "subversive" sticking that bindi on her forehead.

Comments like "drag is meant to be subversive" are highlighting that members/audiences of the drag community should be expected to have a thicker skin when it comes to the arena of the controversial - due to the overall nature of the beast.

[–]kweenkween 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

We need an Alyssa "Why you bein' cute?" GIF.

[–]executive_fishNot that girl, that Woman 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nothing part of drag is problematic.

[–]Fresh_TilapiaFresh off the boat -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Girl save it, these white twinks dont wanna hear it lol

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