458
459

Being fat isn't feminism (self.fatlogic)

healtheworld666 が 投稿

I am a third generation of feminist activists, and everyone I know is horrified by HAES. Don't let these SJW's on tumblr let you believe that feminists who actually have advanced educations in sociology and political science make you think we all support this ignorance. I support the empowerment of women, and that includes being healthy, being outside the grasp of big pharma, and setting an example for your fellow comrades.

Women and men who believe in empowering women don't let them get sick and die, using bullshit logic to enable suicidal choices. HAES is not a feminist movement. To the contrary, it is a movement to keep women enslaved to early deaths, chronic disease, and their couches. Being stuck on the couch addicted to fast food, and Netflix is no place for an empowered woman.

全 163 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]phil_katzenberger 26ポイント27ポイント  (10子コメント)

being outside the grasp of big pharma

OP, could you expand on this? I'm not sure what you mean.

[–]r2chi_tooEnjoying my smallfat privilege 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not OP, but I personally interpreted it as making conscious and informed decisions about the medications one takes. Which means preventing illnesses through one's lifestyle choices, where possible. You can't be completely free from big pharma, but you're not completely 'within its grasp' because you're in full control of your own health.

I could be way off-base with that, though.

[–]ivebeenhereallsummer 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

That or OP is a socialist and doesn't trust any large corporations to have the best interests of our larger "fellow comrades" at heart.

[–]Arctic_Fax [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

By their very nature corporations will never have the best interest of any people at heart.

Corporations serve only to maximise profits for the shareholders, if they act to do anything else then they are breaking the law and can justifiably be taken to court by said shareholders.

Any time that a corporation appears to do something for the good of the people I can guarantee you it is merely a coincidence, it is acting for the good of the corporation. Occasionally there is some overlap and what is good for the people is also good for the corporation, but this is only very occasionally the case.

Trusting a corporation would be foolish in the extreme.

[–]Whats_a_narwhal 23ポイント24ポイント  (1子コメント)

Something something /r/conspiracy

[–]phil_katzenberger 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's what I'm worried about. Specifically with regard to what many consider a feminist interest, big pharma manufactures birth control.

But again, that's why I'm asking for clarification.

[–]vuxanov 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

OP not like those crazy HAES, OP just thinks big pharma is the tool of patriarchy run by privileged white male lizards.

[–]ThePrivilegedIf you can see this you have herpes [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Shush no lizard talk. There is no lizard conspiracy fellow hu-man. All is well...

[–]Calairiel 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not OP but the last thousand times I've seen this it has to do with secretly experimenting on the public and witholding treatment or knowledge. Also profits, money, etc. They "make more money if we stay sick so they make us sick" I'm in engineering not medicine but my "tin hat" radar goes off when I hear the term "big pharma".

[–]dailycrossword 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've got my money on anti-vaxxer. But don't let those SJWs tell you what to think!

[–]GustavVA [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think there is a little bit of r/conspiracy there, but in general, any Doc will tell you it's better to be off drugs than on them--if you can at all help it. Just because there's no way to really understand all the long reaching consequences of taking drugs. Big Pharma is a business and it behaves like one. So, when it can legally limit certain information from becoming public, it probably does. It's pretty easy to argue you actually have a duty to the shareholders to do just that (assuming you can do it legally).

So, I get the desire to stay away from it. However, it can become AltMedLogic to start arguing that you should just do acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine if you get cancer instead of Chemo, or go to a chiropractor instead of a physical therapist to treat a serious back problem.

Where OP comes down in that discussion, I have no idea, though.

[–]femmetronic 135ポイント136ポイント  (24子コメント)

Love and agree with this so much. I'm a hardcore feminist and nothing makes me angrier than seeing what I believe in so seriously being dragged down by laziness and apathy and anti-science bullshit. Happened to my feminist group in college. Broke my heart.

[–]healtheworld666[S] 58ポイント59ポイント  (15子コメント)

We need to build pro-health feminist spaces.

[–]such-a-mensch 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why can't we just have pro health spaces equally accessible to all people regardless of gender?

We can call them gyms.

[–]Honztastic 46ポイント47ポイント  (2子コメント)

Building "spaces" for anyone is what helped lead to these crazy moron HAES fatties thinking their bullshit is acceptable.

And it doesn't really have anything to do with this sub. Make a space, sure. But if that space is anything besides "place to demonize fatlogic nonsense" then what are we talking about it here for?

[–]dyllandor 23ポイント24ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, echo chambers always turn to shit.

[–]EarthRester 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, echo chambers always turn to shit.

Yeah, echo chambers always turn to shit.

Yeah, echo chambers always turn to shit.

Yeah, echo chambers always turn to shit.

Yeah, echo chambers always turn to shit.

[–]femmetronic 25ポイント26ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yes! Pro-actual health spaces for people interested in learning to properly nourish and exercise their body. Supporting anyone who wants to get or stay fit. With the help of actual science.

[–]vacationlife- 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

pro-health feminist spaces.

wow.... you know some times when you can't tell if something is an extreme parody, or people are actually this insane? this is one of those times

[–]babykittiesyay 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wait, is the insanity that this idea is plausible or that it needs to be plausible? Because I think it's ridiculous that it has to be expressly stated, but feminists learning about health together sounds cool!

[–]scloamAre you body bag ready? 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am SO on board with this. It's almost as if this doesn't exist WHATSOEVER within feminist theory today, and that is sad. I've seen a little meme shared amongst my feminist friends which states "if your feminism is not fat-positive, then who is it for?" essentially.

It's for me, dammit.

[–]halfassedeffort 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'd definitely be interested in this.

[–]ICantReadThis45 lbs. Lighter Shitlord 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

As someone fully subscribed onto the shitlord docket (MR, KiR, all that noise), I seriously appreciate that phrasing, even doubly so from third wave.

Usually, when it comes to "feminism" and "spaces", I only see stories where the spaces are being built anywhere but from within feminism (The various "Movement Plus" initiatives).

Good on you =D

[–]skeach101 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

build pro-health feminist spaces.

Women's Workout World? lol

[–]theDodgerUk 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

can you link what a feminist should be, because i do not understand it all.

as far as i am concerned it should be equal rights for men and women, so i not a clue what feminism stands for

[–]babykittiesyay 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's that.

In the past, women were on a lot less equal standing than men even in developed countries, so feminism focused on evening out the rights between women and men by getting women more rights. The movement still tends to focus on the inequalities that put women at a disadvantage, but it is an EQUAL rights movement.

Edit: wiki source

[–]Willie_Mays_HAES -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think a lot of the general confusion about feminism comes from our limited exposure to its "ideals" via the internet, which tends to be links to very extremist "death to all men" type posts on tumblr. Unfortunately the vocal, radical minority tends to be heard more often than the reasonable majority.

[–]TransFattyKicking HAES activists in the FUPA counts as "joyful movement" -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Feminism is the radical notion that women are people, too.

[–]Burnarnar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's not a definition, but an annoyingly overused bit of rhetoric.

[–]WhatTheHex 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

So as a feminist, who isn't the SJW type, who do you agree with then? What are persons that you follow?

[–]bziggs 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Username checks out

[–]goateyes 52ポイント53ポイント  (2子コメント)

Amen, amen, amen.

Third gen feminist here. I'm seeing tumblrina rhetoric take over feminist voices in a world where reproductive rights are still not guaranteed. Makes my blood boil.

[–]JustTruthful 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sadly, this is exactly the reason why feminism isn't taken seriously and has a bad reputation. When lunatics like HAES advocates piggyback it and gets more media visibility than real feminists, it diminishes the core values of feminism.

[–]_pulsar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I hope you're engaging with them to try to help educate some of them about this. We need more feminists to call out other feminists but that seems almost taboo at this point. Perhaps you're scared of the "mob" turning on you and for that I can't blame you, but this will only keep growing unless those inside the movement do something about it.

[–]HopeAnewBow ties are cool! 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think they argue feminism based on the idea that no one should be able to determine their worth or character based on their appearance. Women are notoriously judged more on appearance than their actual character and more than men usually are. I think this sort of judgment needs to stop, but I don't agree that this magically makes an obese persons healthy.

Stopping judgement does not mean we switch from negative connotations with fatness to positive. It means seeing a person and human being first, then their physical characteristics which are what they look like, not who they are as a person.

[–]Jivatmanx 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Women are notoriously judged more on appearance than their actual character and more than men usually are.

I agree than women are judged more on weight than men, but men are judged more on height and income, and a host of social status symbols that men hardly care about in women.

I really do not believe that men are more superficial and judge women less on character than the opposite, just that the superficialities that each are judged on are different. Judging based on character is equally rare.

SJW can complain that men objectify women and Redpillers can complain about men being used for "Beta Bux", there is truth in both and neither is likely to change any time soon.

In my opinion, unilaterally complaining about the other side is just going to make things worse and changing the world starts and ends with changing yourself.

[–]HopeAnewBow ties are cool! 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yup. Notice I only talked about character and appearance. And even said "usually" instead of always. We do not live in a perfect world so people will continue to judge however they feel like, but I'd rather there were equality between the sexes. Appearance should not determine who you are as a person (e.g. height).

We are in agreement, but I feel like you misunderstood my previous post and added to it that which wasn't necessary; my point was made.

EDIT: a word

[–]MyOldNameSucked 13ポイント14ポイント  (8子コメント)

TIL "third wave feminist" isn't a name given to crazy "kill all men feminists" but just feminists of this time.

[–]ckillgannon 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

The misandrist "feminists" should fall under a different category and not be lumped in with sane third wavers.

[–]MyOldNameSucked 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

I always thought the sane ones were just called feminists and the crazy one were called 3rd wave. Glad I never embarrassed myself with that.

[–]eksyneet 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

third-wave feminism is a term used to delineate historical transition from one generation of feminism to another. proud "men must die" misandrists are called radical feminists, or radfems. just in case you ever need this bit of info.

[–]ckillgannon 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Even that is a new definition for radical feminism! I learned that radfems call for the restructuring of society in order to eliminate the patriarchy. I never figured misandry into that definition, though I'm sure even the radicals have extremists.

[–]eksyneet 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

misandry isn't a part of radical feminism by default, but the entire radfem movement is having a lot of trouble distinguishing between "let's dismantle the patriarchy" and "let's strip men of all their rights and give all these rights to women instead". naturally, the general public extrapolates the loudest voices on the entire ideology, and thus the idea that feminism strives not to raise women but to demote men is born.

[–]vanishplusxzone 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think a pretty decent litmus test for this is: while calling for the dismantling of the patriarchy, does she recognize that the patriarchy negatively affects most men, too?

[–]eksyneet 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

excellent point. not all men™ benefit from the patriarchy, and not all elements of the patriarchy are beneficial to men.

[–]catatronic 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

...."sexists"?

just sayin'

[–]Honztastic 25ポイント26ポイント  (7子コメント)

Well when so many of these HAES people are self-identifying as feminists, it kind of throws those statements in doubt.

Not everyone of anything agrees on their beliefs.

The Republican Party might not be racist, but it is the party of racists. For example. (agree or disagree, fine. It's just an example, don't bite my head off).

Feminists might not be fatlogic crazy SJWs, but SJWs and HAES fat women tend to overwhelmingly call themselves feminists.

That means something, even if you don't want it to.

But let's keep all these ancillary topics clear from this sub. It's about fatlogic. We're pointing out the glaring absurdity and cognitive dissonance of "the fats". Take the feminist apologia somewhere else, it's not what we're talking about.

edit: Just look at the derailment of this thread. It's all about feminism. This shouldn't be here at all. This is about fatlogic.

[–]124876720 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

What it means is nothing more or less than diverse movements can have stupid and terrible people in them. Civil rights movement = good. Louis Farrakhan = bad. Postcolonial historiography = good. Ivan van Sertima = bad. Black Lives Matter = good. "Kill all pigs lol" = bad.

Feminism is no different.

[–]ChicupMiddle Aged Metabolism 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

being outside the grasp of big pharma, and setting an example for your fellow comrades.

Her language like this sort of set the tone for derailment.

[–]LastRevision -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

And you don't think democrats are condescending toward races with diversity? LOL. OK.

[–]skeach101 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

OP, I have a question.

I have been struggling with this question for awhile now, so I ask every feminist I can.

What does it mean to be a "woman"? When you speak of empowering women, are you speaking of sexual assignment or gender identity? Obviously, I assume you don't mean gender role, so we'll just skip that now.

[–]WhistlingDead 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not OP, but most feminists these days include transwomen, so I'd say it's about gender identity. See the support Caitlin Jenner received from many feminists.

[–]HopeAnewBow ties are cool! -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

In general, it's about your gender identity. Feminism should be working toward the betterment of both sexes (and all gender identities), not just females. It benefits everyone if men and women are equal. But not all feminists are in agreement about how to do this so we often get a bad wrap from the outspoken and judgmental feminists.

[–]raptorrage 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Gender identity. But also, making it so that having feminine traits isn't seen as pathetic.

[–]skeach101 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But who decides what is a feminine trait? Isn't that simply using the definitions of the patriarchy?

[–]jojotoughasnails 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's stuff like this that makes me almost embarrassed/ashamed to be a feminist these days.

Apparently, in modern times, being a feminist means being a man-hating obese SJW pointing the figure at anyone that looks at them funny. Everyone and everything is holing them back. Or down. Or oppressing them. Or whatever.

Meanwhile, the rights that have been fought for for years are slowly being taken away. Anyone remember abortion? Roe v. Wade? Yea, we need to get back to that shit.

[–]Totenglocke42 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Apparently, in modern times, being a feminist means being a man-hating obese SJW pointing the figure at anyone that looks at them funny. Everyone and everything is holing them back. Or down. Or oppressing them. Or whatever.

That's exactly what it is these days. If you support equality, I suggest looking for a different group to join / name to call yourself.

[–]jojotoughasnails [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I keep grasping on to being a feminist. Someone has to fight for logic and battle the crazy butthurt idiots in this country

[–]molecularmachineHealthy Minority 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

I am a third-wave feminist and I agree. Fat isn't feminism. Being fat is a form of self-harm as far as I am concerned. While harm may not be the focus the practice is harmful, just like with cutting, self-medicating, and similar self-destructive behaviors.

I self-harmed with food and lack of exercise for a long time. Now I exercise, eat better (hey, still like my glass of wine and faux meat) and I am much more capable to be the best me I can be.

[–]vanishplusxzone 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I self-harmed with hunger at the peak of my depression (it was a form of pain no one could see, unlike cutting) and I agree somewhat. I've spoken here on it before and I firmly believe that most overweight/obese people are just taking full advantage of our society of abundance and leisure (as is human nature to do), but how often do we see some HAESer saying something about how people don't know what they went through? How upsetting x moment of their life was, and how food got them through? That's definitely self harm.

[–]Aware_building 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

You lost me at your ignorant "big pharma" comment that followed your " feminists who actually have advanced educations".

[–]Reluctant-Psychic 19ポイント20ポイント  (28子コメント)

Thing is, I'm sure that you're horrified by HAES, and that you truly believe that it isn't coherent with your ideology.

Sadly, that's how feminism is being presented - an anti-men, anti-thin people, anti-cis people ideology. Those people are making a mockery of your beliefs and your engagement, but looking at the media, they're winning. It may be because they're the loudest, but from the outside, we can't really judge - we can only have an opinion about the actual message that we get.

And that message is a message of hate (and of self-hate), of endoctrination, of enslavement (as you justly said), and much more.

I don't know what you need to do in order to separate yourself from the masses, but I'm guessing that the lack of a clear and defined standard for feminism doesn't help.

Where is today's feminist manifesto? Who has the authority to write it? And what does it say?

Until those questions are answered, the phrase "I'm a true feminist and these people aren't" doesn't have any meaning, I'm afraid.

[–]healtheworld666[S] 21ポイント22ポイント  (26子コメント)

There are literally thousands and thousands of books on feminism and maybe two or three discuss issues of HAES and cis sluring. The thing is that people who read and write books are doing just that, they aren't big tumblr debaters. Feminists under the age of 30 are just realizing that this garbage even exists. All that needs to happen is that educated people need to join the conversation.

[–]Reluctant-Psychic 14ポイント15ポイント  (20子コメント)

I agree that there are thousands of books of feminism.

I'm deploring that there isn't (to my limited knowledge) a single, simple reading, that could define for me what is feminism in 2015, and especially what isn't.

I understand that it can't be this simple, but it would greatly help your cause if there was one big, influential speaker who could define feminism and help us outsiders understand it better.

[–]healtheworld666[S] 6ポイント7ポイント  (8子コメント)

I agree. It's happening. But these folks aren't yet visible online. And of course they all have different perspectives, but none of the folks I follow give a shit about Reddit, tumblr, or even know what it's for. In the meantime, don't let angry rich kids on an image sharing device educate you on what a complicated global movement close to 200 years old is with crass memes. You can look up some lectures from Naomi Wolf, Zilliah Eisenstien, Lierre Keith... no one gives a fuck about your Facebook status, or naked statues at college.

[–]Reluctant-Psychic 15ポイント16ポイント  (4子コメント)

I really hope it's going to happen soon, because in the meantime, the message and the purpose of feminism is being defined by Jezebel, Huffpost, and Tumblr. They're coopting the name in order to promote their ideologies (and their ad sales).

If the "true" feminists don't react quick and in force, nobody's going to trust the movement any more.

[–]Kayden01 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

I honestly think we're already there. Get a bunch of guys together, with no women around, and bring up feminism. It's become synonymous with 'bat-shit-crazy', though that same group of guys won't say that around women, because the ridiculous scolding you get, that you aren't allowed to respond to, is too much hassle to deal with.

[–]Reluctant-Psychic 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think the worst thing is that it's impossible to have a discussion with these pseudo-feminists.

You can't argue a point without being accused of all kinds of stuff, which I won't list but you'll have guessed.

[–]worstchristmasever 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Which is exactly why a lot of these people have flocked to feminism as the banner they wave. They see it as infallible, so if you question it, they freak out.

[–]SorrybutnotCanadianI self-identify as the most beautiful ever 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Feminism is a religion now.

[–]heavenlytoaster 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

Movements are made of masses.

[–]Honztastic 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

ANd they have a lot of mass to their masses.

[–]_pulsar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well they need to go online to try to change the narrative because that's where the voice is these days. Books are great and I'm glad there are many like you, however you're essentially sitting on the sidelines if you "don't care about tumblr, reddit, etc."

[–]locriology -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can tell you why there isn't one. They rely too much on their motte and bailey tactics to keep a good "PR-friendly" Feminism while continuing to discus their true batshit nature amongst themselves.

[–]PlayTheBanjoBody positive, curvy, please put height in reply. 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

With all due respect, that's not really an answer. It's a cop-out. That's very much the "educate yourself" attitude we see on tumblr or "go read the FAQ there are literally thousands of studies linked there" from TiTP.

When people ask me what modern feminism is, I tell them that no one will tell me, but there's no shortage of examples of what it isn't. The problem with telling people go to investigate for themselves, apart from the intellectual laziness of shifting the burden of defending your position to the inquirer, is that if I were to go out and look up feminist literature or websites, these things are what's shaping the narrative right now.

"That's not what True Feminism™ is about."

"Well, what is it then?"

"Go look it up yourself."

"I did, this is what I found."

"Well that's not True Feminism™."

I'm not anti-feminist or an MRA or anything like that, it just seems like people are refusing to define feminism so as to keep it a moving target from criticism. The "Duke Pornstar" Belle Knox considers herself a feminist in that she is free to use her body to make money and be an independent woman and she finds sex empowering, but surely there are third wavers who would shame her for her profession. The same could be said for "Princess Donna" (By the way, don't Google these people at work, unless you work somewhere awesome).

Go to Jezebel, xojane, or everydayfeminism.com. Do ctrl+f. Type "fat" and see how many matches come up. If none do (unlikely), click a random link and try again. Jezebel is probably the leading pop feminist website right now and they published an article bragging about women beating up their boyfriends (I won't link to them). Their discussion section is literally titled "Groupthink."

Like it or not, this is what's shaping the narrative right now regarding what feminism is. By the same token, a lot of them would say to you, "If you don't support fat feminism, you aren't intersectional enough and internalized misogyny etc. etc. newspeak etc." By saying, "that's not what it is" and declining to provide evidence to the contrary, that's what you're letting it be.

I know it's not like you pay dues and get a Feminism card to carry around or anything, so you can't really speak for the whole world or every member of a very diverse movement with often-conflicting viewpoints, but can you at least say what feminism means to you? For instance, "empowering women": What does that even mean? How are you quantifying power? What do you want to see changed? Are there no powerful women? How powerful? What's the current power level (inb4 "over 9000") of women vs. men and where would you like it see it get to?

[–]Invisabull 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here's what I truely don't understand, but i've never had the forum to say it before without being attacked:

How does anyone define feminisim as anything other than bigotry towards men? I've been told by several people that feminism is not about putting women before men, rather it's about striving for equality. But, see, that movement already has a name - Egalitarianism, and it doesnt limit the desire for social progress to a percieved gender bias - it deals with sexuality, race and everything else.

So why don't feminists call themselves (or see themselves as) egalitarians? why do they see a distinction? What is it?

...and why are so many of the loudest feminists pushing a strongly male-hating agenda if they want equality?

[–]phil_katzenberger 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

If these people are calling themselves feminists, I have to believe that they are feminist. I can't simply dismiss them as uneducated because "a real feminist" told me that's all they amount to. I first have to evaluate what they're saying.

I understand where you're coming from, but all that stuff you said should really be aimed at the appropriate parties, like feminists who think HAES is a feminist issue. You have to ask them why they feel that accepting such a thing is good for women. Speaking on behalf of third-wavers, telling us you guys like this and this and this and not that, I can't buy it. You guys are all special. You only speak for yourself.

[–]VitalMusician 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree. I get the idea that this post is in response to the facebook post by a very large online feminist presence.

So that giant group of people calling themselves feminists, and who, the vast majority of which responded to that fatlogic post with more fatlogic-- they aren't really feminists? Just because someone doesn't like what they say?

That seems to me to parallel the "not all men" argument.

[–]mightyflynn 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's "the f word", and bitch magazine, and the yearly policy statements from NOW...

These questions have been asked and answered a million times. No, tumblr user killmenandblaze420 doesn't speak for feminism, even if she says she does.

[–]catatronic 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

hardcore feminist, incredibly anti-fat acceptance. I'm anti-beauty industry, so an entire movement based on wanting something to be found "beautiful", that is currently seen as unattractive by the masses really grosses me out. Come on people, self-esteem doesn't come from more people wanting to fuck you.

[–]CheerBear2112 2ポイント3ポイント  (13子コメント)

I think the feminist side of fat acceptance is not necessarily forcing HAES belief on everyone, but the fact that fat females appear to get way more ridicule and hate for it than fat males do.

[–]Honztastic 13ポイント14ポイント  (12子コメント)

For what? Fat guys get made fun of all the time.

But I don't see any fat guy tumblr sites glorifying their fatness and trying to bs everyone into believing they're beautiful because of their lard. That's exclusively a fat female thing as far as I can tell.

[–]CheerBear2112 5ポイント6ポイント  (11子コメント)

Back in the day when FPH wasn't banned, on the imgur site, like... 80% of the photos posted were of women.

[–]FuzzyBacon 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Something like 75% of the users were female as well. It was largely women posting pictures of fat women.

[–]Invisabull 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well yes, for the reasons already given. FPH was actually, by and large, a very reactive site. It was generally responding to all the HAES and other social meda crap that was spewing a fatlogic agenda. I think the vast majority of members came to it as a manifestation of the frustration they felt having to deal with the fatlogic being bandied around.

...and guys tend not to post anything about fat acceptance of HAES. They know they are fat. they are probably regularly ribbed about it, and may even have a nickname specifically relating to thier size.

However, you only have to spend 5 mins on Tumblr to see how many women try to justify their decision to remain obese. Its genuinely sad to see them try to create a social movemement which seems to be based on the view that "if enough people claim to believe it we can effect CHANGE... in the medical sciences...."

So yes, I agree that at least 80% of the pics posted were from women. They were usually pics, posts, rants etc from thier various social media accounts. I'd actually say it was over 90%. BUT - ONLY because that was/is a fair, proportionate representation of the gender bias in the pro-fat movement.

TLDR: Except for a few extreme members' posts, the majority of the FPH content was getting angry about or responding to HAES/Fatlogic posts, so it only follows that as 80%+ are made by women, 80% plus of the posts on the site would focus on women

[–]CheerBear2112 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is kind of degenerating into a chicken and egg argument. Do women get increased scrutiny because of the push to accept larger women, or did the push to accept larger women happen because of the increased scrutiny that they get?

[–]Invisabull [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I have to say i think that is more a matter of changing the goalposts. I grew up seeing fat guys get a lot more public criticism to thier faces than any of the overweight girls I knew.

Even now I see a double standard where the same people who think women should be accepted at any size or shape would never date an obese man. I have actually never seen men push a HAES or fatlogic agenda (save for a few whiteknighting for overweight women). I have never seen or experience an overweight man attempt to justify their weight or claim its ok or healthy or that people should like them 'the way they are'.

I'm sure they must exist, but my experience suggests they are in the extreme minority. But seriously, go looking for posts by men claiming that Chris Pratt's fat2fit body transition is 'unhealthy' and 'wrong', and 'predelicted by social pressure from a close-minded matriarcal view of attractiveness.' Most overweight guys look at that and say "damn. I should do that."

By contrast it seems a lot of women, if they are overweight, feel the need to criticise those who make a huge effort to stay at normal weight (usually other women) rather than to make the same effort themselves or just ignore it.

[–]LastRevision 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Back in the day, like, two weeks ago?

[–]CheerBear2112 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Instead of addressing my point, you want to question the way I phrased it?

[–]LastRevision 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Oh gosh, it was just a little joke. We're on a silly subreddit to begin with. Lighten up, Cheer Bear.

[–]CheerBear2112 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's Monday and I'm grumpybear, damnit. It's just a pet peeve of mine when people say that both obese men and women catch the same amount of crap, when they clearly don't.

[–]LastRevision 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you're willing to be open-minded, I'm willing to talk.

I think the premise of Feminism, universal male-privilege and universal female-hardship (or oppression) is faulty from the outset. I believe that there are advantages and disadvantages to being either sex.

While fat women are mocked more, they also demand more from people- fat men aren't part of the fat acceptance movement because they don't expect to be called "beautiful." Fat men understand that they are useless to others outside of being clowns (the "funny fat guy").

Fat women are sent mixed signals because many men will still be okay with having sex with them, but not dating them exclusively. If you come at this from the stand-point of "that's still not great," tell that to a lonely fat man who would gladly accept limited attention over full invisibility. If you feel like this is exploiting fat women for sexual favors, no one is making them accept those terms; they accept them because limited attention always beats invisibility.

Basically, fat women have enough of the pie to have a taste for dessert and want more; fat men have nothing. Fat women feel entitled to be treated like average sized women, fat men don't have enough positive-self identity scraps to even cobble together the idea that they should feel entitled.

So, really, which is worse?

[–]Invisabull 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I genuniely think men get a lot more.

Growing up, I remember that any fat boy was constantly mocked for being fat. Even thier friends gave them nicknames like 'Fat Matt' or 'slim' etc. They were the clowns, made to do the truffle shuffle to amuse thier peers - sacrificing thier pride for social acceptance. Unlike the overweight girls, they barely ever had success with the opposite sex.

Pretty much every overweight boy I knew was genuniely pretty unhappy and desperate for acceptance.

By contrast many of the overweight girls were overconfident, loudmouthed and brash. They rarely got mocked for thier weight compared to the boys.

I still see this exact pattern around me even in my mid 30s. HAES is one perfect example. I don't see the gender bias you are alluding to at all, i'm afraid.

[–]CheerBear2112 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

A lot of women can be loud and brash to cover up how much stuff hurts them. This behavior is pretty universal between men and women.

[–]IAMA_BAD_MAN_AMA 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

big pharma

And that's when I knew you were just as ignorant as the tumblr feminists

[–]_pulsar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Big Pharma is a thing, you know. It's just a shortened way of saying the pharmaceutical industry. It isn't a phrase owned by conspiracy theorists.

[–]TransFattyKicking HAES activists in the FUPA counts as "joyful movement" 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I'm an old-school feminist and HATE the way the word "feminism" has been hijacked as some kind of excuse for lazy, slobbish behavior. Unfortunately, I think the media, women's studies, etc. are perpetuating this stereotype. I'm with you. Being enslaved to garbage food, garbage media, Big Pharma, and garbage time-wasting activity is not at all empowering, nor does it help a woman grow as a person. However, this sort of behavior is now socially acceptable.

We have to pull people back from the brink and show them what true empowerment is. But how?

[–]LilyTheLean 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm no feminist but I'm glad you said this. I respect everyone and their choices (aside from being fat, and like... terrorists lol) and it sucks to see feminism being squished in witj HAES and the "majority" seeming to be land whales.

[–]AdiposeSingularity 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

HAES is the very definition of a feminist movement and you cannot ignore this. It relies entirely on the narrative and methodologies that third wave feminism has put into place. It is entirely supported by feminist ideology and largely pushed by feminists. In its original form it was "body acceptance" which is a fundamentally feminist movement.

It is the end result of a lot of your politics and feminisms divisive, frankly vitriolic approach to science. You need to accept this and start working to change the direction of feminism. This post is just "No True Scotsman" - by every objective measure, HAES is fundamentally a feminist movement.

[–]effortlessgrace 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is entirely supported by feminist ideology and largely pushed by feminists. In its original form it was "body acceptance" which is a fundamentally feminist movement.

Yes, it's simply the logical conclusion of a lot of feminist theory that's been regurgitated to the idiot public. Feminists of all stripes agree that there are "oppressive" - for lack of a better term - beauty standards that set women back, particularly the sort where they're expected to be thin and beautiful. Feminists of all stripes also largely agree with ideas on privilege.

Now, from there, it only takes a few morons to then start believing that they are oppressed because they're fat and that being physically fit is a form of privilege in the same way that being a rich white person is.

Now that feminism has become monetized thanks to Jezebel, Gawker, Feministing, etc. you can expect to see lots more of this in the future. Hooray.

[–]Honztastic 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Feminism is reaping the crazy it has sown.

[–]thefuzzyfox -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well good for you, pussycat.

[–]_pulsar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

May I ask what you and your other feminist friends are doing to combat this?

Posting here is great but you're basically saying "those people aren't real feminists" which doesn't make them any less of a feminist than you or your friends. It's like a Baptist saying Catholics aren't real Christians.

Do you engage with these types online?

[–]snuggle_fish [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Thank you! My brand of feminism does not include fat-positivism nor HAES.

I'd argue pro-fat movements are counter-feminist for the same reason you stated, and also because they still tend to emphasize the importance of physical appearances above all else (fat is beautiful, etc.) What we should be saying is it's okay to not be beautiful (in ways that actually are determined by genetics) and that doesn't detract from a woman's value as a person.

[–]Hey_Man_Nice_Shot [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I agree, and I actually think that HAES can be anti-feminist because so much of it (not all, obviously) ends up being attacks on other women (putting down others to lift themselves up, ie: 'real women have curves'). On the one hand they argue that they don't need to look beautiful and sexy for anyone, and then argue that any woman who isn't obese doesn't look sexy by their standards. It IS anti-feminist, it's destructive. It's empowering absolutely no one.

[–]LastRevision 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

If fatlogic has nothing to do with feminism why do we talk about feminism so much on the subReddit? ://

[–]Yo-S-IPermanently ruining his metabolic rate 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Because there's an unsettling antifeminist vibe in this sub, especially towards the more FPH-like users.

[–]davidsredditaccount [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

First, you mean from the FPH-like users, second, there's an unsettling HAES vibe from self professed feminists.

[–]SuperHighDeas -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

"educations in sociology and political science" more reason for me not to listen to you, you are educated in how to manipulate individuals and masses.

[–]Mred12 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's like saying my Criminology degree makes me a trained Batman.

[–]LilyTheLean 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well shit, I guess I'm not going into criminology then

[–]Mred12 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Boy are you missing out!

"Wow! You have a BA in Criminology?! Let's make you the boss! No king! No! Let's make you God" is commonly said to Criminology graduates.

[–]davidsredditaccount [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The hardest part is when they shoot your parents at graduation.

[–]gjvah 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Anything that makes no sense and is completely unproductive and disgusting is a feminist movement, so I have no idea what you're on about.

[–]moggley555 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Out of sheer curiosity, what are feminists fighting for now, assuming you live in America or somewhere equally westernized. (Only the west has fatlogic right?!)

[–]Thepimpandthepriest -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

OP, I get you mean well, but you kinda come off as a moron.