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What's going on with this sub? (self.conspiracy)

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[–]ChangeThroughTruth 22ポイント23ポイント  (69子コメント)

Yes, this place is heavily manipulated as is to be expected. Any place that has a large enough user base will be a target of programs like JTRIG. Research the methods of programs like JTRIG so you can understand their techniques. Use this as a place to get ideas to research yourself, but don't put too much weight into comments and voting. Always view by /new. Observe the topics in the /new queue that are hammered with downvotes quickly. Those are probably topics worth looking in to.

Identify for yourself the commenting users who participate in this behavior. FortHouston is a pretty obvious example, as is BillionaireBob.

Navigating through this mess is a lot of work, but it is probably worth it.

[–]polkadotgirl 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

FortHouston and BillionaireBob suck.

[–]Thothx3 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed.

[–]YoStephen [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

How do we know that they aren't correct and that you're not a shill.

[–]Don117 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I second this observation. They have both exceeded their maximum allotment of douchiness.

[–]iamagod_____ 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

E're day. Call them out and move on. Don't waste your time with worthless, low IQ disruptors.

[–]know_comment -2ポイント-1ポイント  (52子コメント)

Aren't you one of the guys that is always posting about how the earth is flat?

[–]Lose__Not__Loose[S] 12ポイント13ポイント  (33子コメント)

Even if he's a flat earther, which I disagree with along with many of the views in this sub, it's something that should be discussed, not just downvoted and called crazy. If you disagree, then disagree. Insults are not productive and the downvote button isn't a disagree button.

[–]know_comment 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

not every theory is worthy of discussion. i'm not saying it should be censored, but i do think it detracts from the sub.

He's claiming that shills are downvoting "important topics", while he spends his time here talking about a theory that was literally invented by satirists as a method of mocking "science deniers".

[–]Findout246 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

Labelling a theory "not worthy of a discussion" is called pre-censorship. Same reason why 9/11 is a taboo subject in the MSM.

Free-thinking means ANYTHING is on the table, no matter how silly it may seem.

[–]know_comment [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Ok, I think the moon is made of cheese. Anyone who downvotes me is a shill.

We have to be discerning. remember when you were in kindergarden and your teacher told you there was no such thing as a stupid question? Your teacher was wrong. Don't waste the class's time with stupid questions.

[–]Findout246 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

And who decides what is/isn't a stupid question? Is this something that is universally understood on all levels (not just moon cheese)?

[–]know_comment [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

People are responsible for their own logic. Flat earthers are going to get downvoted by community members who think their "theory" detracts from the sub content. That doesn't make me a "shill", that means that I don't think their posts contribute any value.

[–]d4rthdonut [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Haha, wrong. Somethings are so mind blowingly stupid that they are not worthy of discussion. Flat earth falls firmly in that camp, it's been proven wrong for the past 500 years and you can see the curvature from the tops of mountians or on the ocean. You literally have to be living underground to miss the proof. Which probably isn't too far of a stretch, parents basement = underground.

[–]Findout246 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Wrong/right is not the point. It's about being open and discussing anything despite how silly it sounds to you (subjective).

Even Plato, Copernicus, etc. were met with extreme opposition in their time by people like you. Yet today, you accept their findings as fact.

[–]d4rthdonut [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Haha, and they proved that the earth was round and that the earth orbited the sun with mathematics and observation, they provided the proof required to overturn the established theory. Flat earthers have shit tons of math (every part of physics works because the world is round) and observable phenomenon to debunk before they can even begin to discuss whether the earth is round or flat. But we get no proof, just a bunch of conjecture and misunderstandings, The people pushing this theory today are not a copernacus or plato. To be considered a thinker like those men, they have to provide evidence, instead, just spew unbacked or easily debunked claims and want everyone to trust them. I'm sorry, I can fly around the world, thus the world is round that alone debunks the entire hypothesis. It takes a serious lack of understanding of the pysical world to even consider such a stupid hypothesis.

[–]Independentthought0 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Did you notice the immediately start talking about the most way out thing on the sub. It's what they do along with the Bozos who claim we don't post proof when we do the just reject it but offer no proof on their side. You're post is apparently the mating call of the North American Shill, they're out this time of season.

[–]magic3383 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I personally enjoy watching flat earth videos. I enjoy any conspiracy that is instantly dismissed, but also has passionate believers who are at least attempting to put their evidence forward.

[–]vezokpiraka 2ポイント3ポイント  (17子コメント)

Look. There are some things you can have a sensible discussion about and there are things that make no sense.

Believing the Earth is flat just shows how ignorant you can become.

There is one thing to say the Moon Landing never happened and quite another to say that the Moon doesn't exist.

[–]ChangeThroughTruth 0ポイント1ポイント  (16子コメント)

I understand where you are coming from. The scope of the lie required for the official version of the earth to be untrue is so huge. It is too far off of your world view to be even valid for consideration.

But, do you hold any current opinions that in the past you would have dismissed without investigation? A couple of years ago I would have had the same reaction to many, many topics, not just the shape of the earth. Psychology is a strange thing.

[–]sci-op 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

the people who claim they 'question everything' including the earth being round and the existence of nukes and so on always fail to question their own intelligence and maturity.

some things are just absolutely pointless to question. like if water is truly wet, or if ice is really cold. the lies are everywhere! dun dun dun! given all the other silly 'skepticism' for other topics i'm surprised IF these haven't been brought to the table of 'serious discussion' by 'well meaning' free thinkers. In the end, all it does is make people who question events of significance get lumped in the same camp according to the rest of the public.

[–]ChangeThroughTruth -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Who gets to decide what topics are valid for consideration? What is the appropriate methodology for making these decisions? To allow this to be dictated by some authority or punishment by the herd is problematic.

[–]sci-op [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

people get to decide. it's common sense. the methodology is logical reasoning, which people who want to stick to flat earth this and no nukes that never bother to use, indistinguishable from troll behavior.

You're actually going to argue it's worth discussing whether water is wet? it is only problematic for people who want to split such hairs and pick flyshit out of pepper over such trivial bullshit that has been settled for hundreds of years. when it comes to major events that don't add up and a lot of sweeping policy changes, that's when it matters. duh.

[–]ChangeThroughTruth [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You're actually going to argue it's worth discussing whether water is wet?

The wetness of water or thinking proves the thinker are completely different types of topics.

For the shape of the earth I am talking about physical, measurable properties. It's not a philosophical debate.

[–]vezokpiraka 2ポイント3ポイント  (11子コメント)

I have flown around in planes. I've seen the Earth from up above. There is 0% chance that the Earth is flat. I've also been at sea where you see the horizon. I've changed my mind about stuff, but some things are just true because they are true.

For example, water boils at 100 degrees Celsius. There is absolutely nothing that will change my mind on this. (I know physics and I know boiling point depends on a lot of factors. I'm using this as an example. )

[–]Findout246 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Constants in science are only absolute until they are disproven, which history shows happens often. Just saying..

[–]vezokpiraka [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

[–]Findout246 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Think about history. We use to believe the Earth was flat. That was 100% fact at the time. It was an absolute constant. Then Aristotle and the like came along and said nah it's actually round. They were at the time met with extreme ridicule from people just like you; who said things like, "this is dangerous thinking, blah blah" and as such the truth was suppressed for hundreds of years.

Who's to say we got it right now?

[–]vezokpiraka [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

This never happened. Nobody believed the Earth was flat. Check your sources better.

Also how does flat Earth explain the Coriolis effect? Also how do they explain that if you look at a Sunrise over the sea while being on a hill and then running down that the hill and you see the Sunrise again?

[–]ChangeThroughTruth -4ポイント-3ポイント  (5子コメント)

I have flown around in planes. I've seen the Earth from up above. There is 0% chance that the Earth is flat. I've also been at sea where you see the horizon.

Yes, I have done these things too. There are some observations you should make the next time you are in a plane or have the opportunity to see a ship sail away from you.

but some things are just true because they are true

There is an enormous amount of evidence to consider on this topic. By saying something is true because it is true you deny yourself the opportunity to think through it yourself.

Think of it as an exercise in logic and reasoning. You don't have to go into it looking to have your mind changed. Many thinking people go into the topic looking to debunk it, but end up realizing there is something to it.

This is an intro written by another user if you are interested:

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3cowhi/intro_to_flat_earth_a_basic_primer_v20/

A caution on this topic, there is a huge amount of disinfo on it. The Flat Earth Society is clearly freemason run controlled opposition. They exist to dead end people on the topic and forget about it by making silly arguments such as the earth is rising at 9.8 m/s2 in order to create the effect of gravity. Many debunk videos on the subject then refute these straw man arguments (ex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNqNnUJVcVs). It is easy to win a debate when you get to attribute whatever statements you like to your opponent.

[–]vezokpiraka [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

This discussion is hopeless.

You can't have an opinion on anything if you don't have at least some things that are true because they are true.

Are you going to tell me now that "Cogito, ergo sum." is not actually true?

[–]ChangeThroughTruth [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Why should the shape of the earth be a base, unquestionable truth? Who gets to decide that? There is a wealth of evidence on this topic, why not look at that instead?

[–]vezokpiraka [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Because nobody gives a flying fuck if we live on a round Earth or a flat Earth. Everybody cares about living. I want to live in a world where my government tries to help me and not try to kill me.

[–]sci-op [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

take your own advice: https://youtu.be/_YzeGRFDIms

[–]KikiCVIII 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

No, there is no reason to waste our time talking about how the Earth is flat. That is not a theory that is a mental delusion.

[–]Lose__Not__Loose[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

If it's something that they believe, it's worth discussing to them. If it's not worth discussing to you, don't click the thread. There's plenty of things I find not worth discussing so I don't discuss them. Flat earth is probably one of them but I'm always curious to learn about new things, even if they don't make any sense.

[–]KikiCVIII 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm always curious to learn about new things, even if they don't make any sense

If it doesn't make sense then what new things are you learning?

[–]Findout246 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

[–]ZombieEconomie 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/LimitedHangouts

[–]ChangeThroughTruth 2ポイント3ポイント  (17子コメント)

I would call myself an earth shape agnostic. After having spent a good deal of time on the subject I can't say that I know of a complete working model. Both the official spinning globe model and the standard flat earth model have problems. But all it takes to make it an important topic of conversation is to show that the official version is incorrect. I would call this similar to 9/11 in that way. I don't absolutely know what occurred there, but I do know that the official version cannot be true so it is an important thing to discuss.

Feel free to check out my post history if you are interested in the things I've said.

[–]sci-op 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

it is not at all similar to 9/11.

[–]ChangeThroughTruth -3ポイント-2ポイント  (9子コメント)

What I am trying to say is that it is not necessary to have a complete alternate explanation for 9/11 in order to make it an important topic of conversation. All you have to do is show that the official story cannot be correct.

Similarly for the shape of the earth it is not necessary to present a complete alternate model. All that is required is to show that the official spinning globe model has unresolvable contradictions.

[–]d4rthdonut 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

I just want a flat earther to provide an accurate explaination of the pysical world using math, physics does that based on the assumption that the world is round. Where is the flat earth rebuttle? If you cannot provide logical math related arguments that disprove physics or prove a new way of thinking about the physical world then what proof do you have?

[–]ChangeThroughTruth [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

As I have stated several times, I don't know of a full working model that I can endorse. But that is not required to make this a valid topic of conversation. All that is necessary is to show that the official spinning globe model cannot work. For example, showing that water does not curve. For a globe of circumference 25000 miles there should be drop from the tangent of 8 inches * distance in miles2, but this doesn't happen.

I encourage you to look into the topic for yourself, there is a huge amount of information there. But I don't have any vested interest in convincing you of anything.

[–]sci-op [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Water doesn't curve? wtf? it's liquid. It has currents that go all sorts of directions. Each drop of water is held onto the earth at it's location by gravity, which is at the center of the earth, so wherever the water is on the surface, it will fall towards the center, making it very easy for water to stay on the surface no matter where it is at on a sphere. Gravity is not below the earth. Learn some basic physics. Or is all of physics a conspiracy too?

"I encourage you to look into the topic for yourself, there is a huge amount of information there" again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YzeGRFDIms

[–]d4rthdonut [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

But water does curve... you just refuse to beleive that it does, watch a ship sailing away into the horizon. What is the last part that you can see? Oh right, the masts or highest point. The rest of the ship hasn't sunk, it has just dropped below our line of sight. That's how I can tell that the world is round. All this masturbating about an 8in drop is just disrupting you from seeing the world as it is, round...

[–]ChangeThroughTruth [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

But water does curve... you just refuse to beleive that it does

That really isn't the case. It's not about a 'belief'. People associate beliefs with their identity and so are resistant to changing them when presentated with evidence to the contrary. I try as much as possible to hold "opinions based on the evidence that I have seen" so that I am able to constantly reconsider what I "know".

I don't really want to get deep into this topic in this thread, it's rehashing things I have been through many times before, ie the ship going down over the horizon is one of the first things that gets discussed. If you are interested, look into the topic for yourself. I have no need to convince you of anything.

[–]d4rthdonut [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Wait, can you tell me what happens to the bottom of a ship once it disappears over the horizon? Seems pretty simple to me. If the world was flat, the bottom of the ship would have to sink, is that not what happens?

I really don't care if you answer the question, I just think it funny watching you dance around all the observable phenomenon that shows that the earth is round with no explainations. Heck, explain gravity, the coriolous effect, night and day cycles, or eclipses these are all things that have an explanation in the spherical world theory that can be used to successfully calculate when and where these phenomenon will occur. Can flat earth say the same? As others have pointed out, flat earth theory has been around for far longer than the spherical earth and yet, Noone can provide me with an explanation for how any of these thing happen in accordance with the planar earth.

[–]sci-op [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Falsifying the 9/11 official story is fine. because it's loaded with bullshit. Falsifying the globe theory is also fine, but it has never been falsified. The 'unresolvable contradictions' of which you speak of have already been explained, thousands of times over. Your misunderstandings and inability to understand the explanations is not the problem with the theory, that is your problem.

[–]ChangeThroughTruth [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I think we should just end the discussion at this point. You are clearly assuming that all contradictions must have been resolved because you know the earth is a globe. You don't even know what contradictions I am speaking of. This isn't the topic of the thread, so I don't really want to dive into it. If you are interested, you should look for yourself. Just know what it means if you dismiss without looking.

[–]sci-op [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I already have looked for myself. The flat earth theory doesn't rely upon anything besides complete misunderstandings and silly questions that have been debunked and answered over and over and over. Or do you have some secret stash of contradictions I have never seen before? You don't even know what i've looked at. But that's ok, you can save both of us time by bailing on the point you brought up.

[–]youfuckingslaves 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

This should help with conceptualizing the flat earth. This model works perfectly.

https://youtu.be/lPuedDwAeKc https://youtu.be/wqKTLzUKqDc https://youtu.be/d6BY15hwVzo

The earth is flat, I have spent an inordinate amount of the last 4 months on this and it is flat, I would bet my life on it.

Not to toot my own horn but I am not a moron that doesn't understand science etc. , I have been IQ tested and am borderline genius, and was in honors classes throughout my schooling.

[–]ahmrbond 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just starting to get into this one myself... I can't believe I'm entertaining the theory, but the more I try and argue it the harder it gets.

I do have a couple of questions about it though - certain things that stop me from entirely buying into it... Let me know if you have any thoughts...

One is the sun. I get how perspective will make it seem like it is "setting" as it rotates off into the distance, but it just seems like there would be some kind of residual glow from the sun after it has "set".

Then there is the matter of gravity. Because of centrifugal force (or centripetal force if you prefer), and also because of varying altitudes in various parts of the planet, the net effect of gravity on solid objects is not constant, so objects weigh different amounts on different parts of the globe. I know this is the theory, but it would not be hard to verify this with experiments, so I would imagine that someone has done so (I haven't found an experiment yet, but I need to look harder). If the results are as expected, this would kinda debunk the flat earth model... although the opposite is also true.

The other thing is that amateur astronomers have apparently taken pictures of satellites... a quick google search can confirm this. They could be lying. Or could there be another explanation?

[–]dehehn 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

People who boast about their I.Q. are losers.

Stephen Hawking

[–]sci-op 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

it works perfectly, sure, except for all of these basic problems: https://youtu.be/_YzeGRFDIms

if you'll bet your life on it then lets see you go find the edge of this flat earth and report back. no? oh that's right, didn't think so.

[–]ChangeThroughTruth 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks, I will check out those videos. I have spent a lot of time on it in the last few months as well.

I think it is important to distinguish between disproving the official spinning globe model and proving any other model complete. A single proof by contradiction can get rid of the globe, but proving another model completely correct means addressing contradictions raised with the new model.

For example, in the standard flat earth model, how do long summer days work in the Southern 'hemisphere'?

Not to toot my own horn but I am not a moron that doesn't understand science etc. , I have been IQ tested and am borderline genius, and was in honors classes throughout my schooling.

That part really wasn't necessary. I'm sure you know statements like that can't be verified and border on appeal to authority.

[–]FuckyouOPintheass 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd be interested in how you came to your conclusion. I haven't taken a full stance on any conspiracy yet presented to me, because both sides have way too much conflicting ideas. I do take a full stance on the fact conspiracies are being played against us all, at almost all times.