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Neteller increasing bitcoin deposit fee to be highest of any method (imgur.com)

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[–]NomadStrategy[S] 39ポイント40ポイント  (36子コメント)

see the bottom line, 5% as of september 10 :( why?!

[–]usrn 28ポイント29ポイント  (28子コメント)

Pressure from VISA/Mastercard/Banks?

[–]thewaterbottle4 11ポイント12ポイント  (15子コメント)

Exactly this. They just call them up and say either change your bitcoin service or you might find that your VISA payments have trouble getting processed for some reason

[–]anti09 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you have any evidence to support this allegation? Or is this just what you're assuming happened because in /r/bitcoin everything is a nefarious plot

[–]ultimatepoker 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

This is not true. Source; do business with Neteller. Know guys in Neteller.

[–]BitttBurger 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh stop with the reality! We've got tinfoil hats to polish here.

[–]gwlloyd 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's an exaggeration but it is true a little. That's why you can no longer use any bitcoin deposited funds with the Mastercard service they offer (plastic and virtual cards). Which makes Neteller kinda pointless unless you're a gambler.

[–]JeanneDOrc 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's "true a little" because Mastercard TOS isn't friendly to buying prepaid cards of any variety due to risk management. Bitcoin is no exception, but it's certainly not the only variety they restrict.

[–]Frankeh 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

Maybe they're getting so few orders with Bitcoin that they have to make back their cost of implementing Bitpay, training employees to use it, etc, by charging more.

[–]kryptobs2000 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

They've already done that though. If btc isn't a popular payment method on your site you're not going to recoup the costs by making it more prohibitive to use.

[–]AE1360 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Maybe it is to counter balance the volatility of it.

[–]kryptobs2000 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's what Bitpay is for.

[–]AE1360 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh, well then I don't know. I would guess it is because like it or not, it isn't as convenient right now for business to use Bitcoin. Offering it for free isn't worth it to them, but they already got it implemented so why remove it.

[–]Economist_hat 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

They've already done that though. If btc isn't a popular payment method on your site you're not going to recoup the costs by making it more prohibitive to use.

Maybe, and I'm just throwing this out there, they're never going to recoup the cost of implementing it because so few people use it.

[–]tomuchfun 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Rofl

[–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]Ifkl 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This issue... has absolutely nothing to do with net neutrality. Net neutrality doesn't mean "Everything on the internet is fair", it means very specifically that data transferred by ISPs should not be limited or prioritized on the basis of its source or content.

    This is a matter of providing financial, not network services, and paying fees on the transfer of money, not data. It's not even entirely clear that the major companies are doing anything wrong--there's a thin line between an agreement for two companies to partner together and anti-competitive practices.

    [–]_HagbardCeline 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Holy fuck you're an idiot.

    [–]fifteen13 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

    "then they fight you"

    [–]Kristkind 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Then you don't necessarily win.

    [–]xbtdev 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Then they laugh at you some more.

    [–]svmk1987 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    OK.

    [–]romerun 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    There's no other explanations

    [–]NotHyplon -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Pogoing price? Extra ball ache to support especially given last weeks shaneigans? Not compliant with AML\KYC? Nope must be Visa!

    [–]usrn 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Actually, Mastercard prohibited netteller from allowing direct BTC top ups for their mastercards and reportedly they've been lobbying against cryptocurrencies too.

    [–]NotHyplon 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Mastercard have a long history of slap fights with Netteller type services. Mostly due to gambling. Even where gambling is legal they suck for it.

    [–]usrn 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Gambling is just one of the scapegoats.

    Mastercard's stance on bitcoin is clear. They want it to go away. :)

    http://qz.com/423739/mastercard-makes-the-case-that-its-safer-and-faster-than-bitcoin/

    [–]NotHyplon 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yep free market in action.

    [–]rydan -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No. It is probably because Bitcoiners are idiots and consume an inordinate amount of support costs.

    [–]DIGITAL-not-Virtual 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

    To cover themselves from volatility?

    Maybe they don't instantly convert.

    [–]MaxSan 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    They do. its done via bitpay.

    [–]NomadStrategy[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    they could if they wanted to

    [–]giszmo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    cause they can. They make a profit from these fees and bitcoiners just seam to be the least price sensitives, so I expect them to go even higher once they see that bitcoin option still gets used.

    I topped up my cellphone paying 20% 3 times now and the first two times I complained to the company about the fees not being clear but the third time I did it because the inconvenience of filling out some forms to setup my bank account to pay it or of waiting for the next day and pay at some kiosk in the street let me pay "one last time" the 20% and I hope I support a viable bitcoin business with it long term. Bitcoiners are price-insensitive.

    [–]-XB- -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Your outrage is totally unfounded. And your title is incorrect. The majority of their funding options cost 5% or more. Only a small handful are less.

    ....don't use Neteller

    [–]NomadStrategy[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    2.95% is the current highest, 1.9% is the 2nd, can you explain how you derive that the others are more than 5%? For me, Neteller is the only option because I am American.

    [–]-XB- 38ポイント39ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I count 22 (twenty two!) other methods that are 5% or higher. 5% is actually on the low end for Neteller. Your title is misleading.

    Looking over their deposit options page, two things are abundantly clear: 1) Neteller can be funded in more ways than any other online account I've ever seen. 2) Their whole business model is to charge moderate to outrageous fees to fund an account.

    [–]jrm2007 10ポイント11ポイント  (16子コメント)

    Maybe I don't understand what Neteller does anymore (I knew it from online poker years ago) -- why would you deposit Bitcoin to it? Is it because most places that accept Neteller do not accept Bitcoin directly?

    I wonder if many people will use Bitcoin this way. Practically no one, I would guess.

    [–]NomadStrategy[S] 10ポイント11ポイント  (14子コメント)

    I need Neteller, its the only option for me for a Mastercard, and bitcoin is the only way for me to deposit. I live in a domestic-only banking system and this is the one way to use money internationally that is not bitcoin.

    [–]saintoshi 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Aren't there other bitcoin debit card options? Admittedly I don't keep up very much with those developments because I have no use for them, but I'm pretty sure I've read about some here before.

    [–]NomadStrategy[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

    none available to me AFAIK

    [–]saintoshi 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I see. No idea if this would help you:

    /r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3dgtxn/daily_discussion_thursday_july_16_2015/ct54b0y

    Either way, did you ask Neteller why they are increasing the fee for bitcoin deposits?

    [–]sqrt7744 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Doesn't bitstamp offer something similar? It may be cheaper that 5%.

    [–]MaxSan 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    the Neteller card is actually really good. Look at all the features, it beats most banks if you have a slightly upgraded account.

    [–]saintoshi 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Maybe you should switch banks.

    [–]MaxSan 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    fee free alternative currency as low as 1.25%, 10kUSD a day withdrawal.... multi currency accounts... and more

    [–]saintoshi 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Is it really fee free if you have to pay deposit fees? And last time I checked there were huge fees for making cash withdrawals with the card as well. Plus all the conversion fees if your Neteller account is not in your native currency (which might be the case for a lot of people using it in USD because of online poker).

    [–]gwlloyd 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    ?? You can't use the cards with funds deposited with bitcoin. It worked for about 3 weeks then Mastercard came down hard on them and it hasn't worked since.

    [–]dangerm00s3 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

    ANX debit cards far-far cheaper, i suggest checking them out

    [–]Elwar 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    ANX charges 5% to convert your bitcoins to dollars. You just don't see it because they hide it in the exchange rate.

    [–]nad48 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    yeah when they work, still waiting for the fifth day for a 1 bitcoin recharge

    [–]NomadStrategy[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    sad to hear these negative replies, I got excited it looked good at first!

    [–]nad48 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    yeah got 3 cards from them when you even had to pay for them and the first problem the support team has found they have chosen the easy way of fuck the customer and don't even reply anymore

    [–]Norrit 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's very useful for online purchases where you need a credit card. In a lot of countries credit cards aren't as mainstream as they are in the US, so a physical prepaid cc is a good workaround for that.

    [–]2waterbottlez 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Can someone explain what Neteller is?

    [–]NomadStrategy[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

    an online bank basically, that provides digital/physical mastercards, and free user-to-user transfers. They accept bitcoin deposits which is why I use them.

    [–]blackmon2 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I've never heard of it. Is it a US thing?

    [–]elan96 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No, it's an online gambling thing.er'

    [–]prazant -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    nah more 3rd/4th world

    [–]dexr07 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Also one of the main options for people wanting to deposit/withdraw money from gambling sites.

    [–]BeerofDiscord 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

    The crazy thing is that if you do end up depositing Bitcoin into your account you pretty much can't do anything with it! You can't do payments with your prepaid card, you can't withdraw to your bank account, you can't withdraw from an ATM. Pretty much the ONLY thing you can do is send the money to a neteller-accepting merchant.

    And there is zero reason to do this (except for pressure from VISA & co.), because by the time you deposit those coins, they have been turned into dollars or euros by bitpay. crazy stupid.

    [–]apython88 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I use it to deposit into sites or buy things but it gets converted into fiat

    [–]TheBitcoinArmy 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    thats pretty fucked up

    [–]Atlas_84 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Playing devils advocate here, is it possible they're just trying to profit more in btc? A lot of BTMs charge a markup for their services, why not here too?

    [–]Cocosoft 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't think you're playing devil's advocate...

    [–]NomadStrategy[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    sure its possible, but I don't think that is their business model. I think it is more likely they got taken on a double spend recently and are adjusting to compensate.

    [–]Xenu_RulerofUniverse 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    compliance cost + bitcoin wallet maintenance.

    [–]saintoshi 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's time for Neteller to die already. Nobody would ever use them anyway if it weren't for online poker.

    Apparently it has some legit use to some as a prepaid debit card.

    [–]mrpg_ 13ポイント14ポイント  (6子コメント)

    What a stupid company.

    [–]aaaaaaaarrrrrgh 30ポイント31ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Instead of calling them stupid, how about figuring out why? They probably have a reason for doing so, and bitching about it won't make Bitcoin more popular. Figuring it out and fixing it will.

    Accepting Bitcoin isn't free for a company. And I'm not just talking about coinbase fees - customer support, integration, compliance/accounting, ... are all things that cost money.

    [–]shadymess 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I used Neteller with Bitcoin once. I was going to deposit X bitcoins to Neteller and I had to first write how much I want to deposit in USD or any other fiat currency, you can't write how many bitcoins you want to deposit. So I wrote that I want to deposit X USD in bitcoins and they sent me to next page with QR code and bitcoin address which I can deposit to, this page didn't tell me how many bitcoiins I have to deposit so I calculated how many bitcoins equals X USD. Bitcoin is quite volatile and it is anyway hard to calculate the exact amount they equaled to that moment when I clicked next. So I sent little too much and Neteller didn't deposit bitcoins to my Neteller account. I had to contact them via email and they had to manually fix it next day.

    Neteller uses Bitpay and I don't understand how they could implement so stupid solution. Neteller probably have to use much time on this.

    [–]CleverEmu 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yet people upvote stupidity :)

    I have a Neteller account, and I have had some bad experiences with them but then some positive ones also. I don't use them at the moment but they're pretty decent for a financial institution but I surely wouldn't use them over my normal bank here.

    [–]mrpg_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    But not 100000% more than the other alternatives. Quite the opposite, actually.

    It’s just that Bitcoin is a nuisance for them, probably. They want to drive out Bitcoiners.

    [–]Dymix 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    If the volume is very low, then the fixed costs will be placed on the few and the percentage-fee will therefore be high. Once(and if) volume gets big, fixed costs remain the same, and the fee should go down.

    But in all, the fixed costs are probably pretty low.

    [–]drjacks 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I believe they just want to be called as a company that is using bitcoins. nothing more. bitcoin is a rival for such companies.

    [–]grabberfish 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    GOCoin will be delighted to read this.

    [–]alkazar82 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

    They are pretty much irrelevant for Bitcoiners anyway since you can't use your Bitcoin deposits with their Mastercard anymore.

    [–]apython88 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

    You can but you have to deposit / withdraw first

    [–]alkazar82 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    What do you mean?

    [–]klmist 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

    1) load money to neteller with bitcoin

    2) send money to a friend or gambling casino

    3) get friend to send money back or withdraw from casino

    4) load card

    [–]alkazar82 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Oh, do you know of any sites you can easily deposit and withdraw to?

    [–]zombiecoiner 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Probably got hacked and are trying to recoup some costs.

    [–]cbeast 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Sounds like a convenience fee. If it's too high, then don't use them.

    [–]Sherlockcoin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I thought they don t accept bitcoin anymore..

    [–]dudetalking 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Pretty sure neteller realize the only people using bitcoin to deposit are people who use bitoin even if it doesnt always make sense or people who have limited options, ergo they can jack up the fees and make an easy 5%.

    [–]hietheiy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The 5% is probably because of increasing bitcoin KYC costs. That's my guess.

    [–]codyswanson4 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Because that makes sense

    [–]alarm_test 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think this is very positive.

    They obviously want to start amassing bitcoin themselves very quickly.

    With big players moving in, the price is only going one way.

    [–]aurelscorp 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'll delete my neteller account.

    [–]knircky 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    It's pretty stupid of them. I would just bake the 5% into my exchange rate.

    [–]libertariandictator 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'll probably never do business with you.

    [–]jcoinner 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Like everywhere else. Cough, WU, Cough.