全 181 件のコメント

[–]chris_wilsonLead Developer 229ポイント230ポイント  (50子コメント)

Thanks for writing this.

Honestly, the way that some community members act causes developers to become upset. Some of my replies last night when discussing divination card drops hint that I was pretty upset at the way feedback was being phrased. I have very thick skin compared to some of our staff.

[–]Microh [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

With some exceptions, a lot of the feedback comes from passion for the game. I do think a lot of people forget the bigger picture, clouded by their own particular point of view.

The subreddit user and the mods can go a better job to guide people to be constructive, civil and mannered - and the game would benefit from the good discussions and the feedback. Warranted criticism should be more than welcome, but we should help shape it into a form that leads to improvement - not into something that tear each other down.

We, the users, can contribute by upvoting good content and good discussions/replys. The mods can bring up discussions for new rules and enforce them.

Lastly, GGG can still improve on information flow. If they have issues, they can be faster telling the community they are working on them. It might not satisfy everyone, but at least they know it is being worked on. It helps take out some of the instant negativity.

GGG can also be clear on how the users can be most constructive when providing feedback and bug reports. Things like these helps people channel the feedback to the right people and with the right mindset:

Bug reporting / Feedback

GGG like any game often gets good and bad feedback. Regardless of the perspective what is the best way for the community to give feedback or criticism in the most contructive way possible?

  • Being succinct and straight to the point is helpful and makes things more efficient.
  • Focus on informing us of the problem, rather than the solution.
  • Provide information and context. If your feedback is "monsters do too much damage" tell us your build, and where you are playing in the game world, and ideally what monsters.
  • Do tell us what you are feeling. Emotional feedback is more useful than you'd think although being hostile/insulting is not ideal. When giving feedback, please keep in mind that the team does keep up to date with the trends in game design and are aware of current events/popular topics about these issues.
  • Feedback doesn't need to be backed up with sources and background. We mostly just need to hear what the specific problem is and relevant information like build, area, monsters, items etc.
  • Please be forgiving if you feel a mistake has been made. If a mistake has been made, we will do our best to fix it.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6nEyIC8oQ

With those points in mind, post your feedback to the appropriate forum here:

[–]headlessunicorn [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I mean no harm and I'm doing my best to not sound like an ass but... does Chris and GGG realize the kind of people who play their game?

I was verbally attacked in global 1 yesterday when I said "Why does Merc Malachai hit so hard? dayum" I was hopping the "dayum" would give it away as that it was sarcasm or a joke.

I turned off the chat after being called, among a few things: "Fucking little baby", "Learn how to play dumbass", "You got to merc Malachai and you can't beat him? you fucking suck", "Wow that's the worse thing I've heard the entire day".

That's the kind of replies I got from a silly comment. What do they expect when they change the game for THOSE players? I mean, really? what do they expect from this community? I'd say about 70% of the community is nothing but trolls and assholes.

[–]ldmfiel [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

This is why as a new player (got here with the new expansion) I've kept global chat off. Whats the point if as soon as I ask for help or im having trouble someones gonna attack me.

[–]AlterChaos 26ポイント27ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm pretty sure that most of the people that play for long periods of time do genuinely love the game, I know that I do; it's upon the community to police itself and help boost the respect given to each other, and of course to you, the developers.

Frankly, it's embarrassing to have a community as toxic as this as my peers, and I'm extremely glad that you and the rest of the company have as much passion as you do for your game. Thank you, Chris. <3

[–]pittyh [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Chris, I have Been with PoE since the very beginning, I love your game and always will. It took a bunch of Kiwi's to make the greatest ARPG ever made. I don't have anything bad to say about the game, even when you nerfed my tanky incinerator i understood why.

Thank you for giving me an enjoyable way to spend my time. Looking forward to the future of POE.

  • Ebonellax

[–]InSearchOfThe9 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Chris, I'd just like to say that the people complaining are almost certainly a vocal minority. My entire group of friends is having an absolute blast with the expansion, and PoE is still the best ARPG ever made as far as I'm concerned. I've logged 800 hours on this game and I look forward to spending another 800.

[–]TripAndFly [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I wouldn't even be reading this if I had the opportunity to be playing PoE right now:) #poe4android. Would be so legit if I could organize my stash with my cell phone or Web app. Of course I would never get any work done.

[–]InfantLobotomy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

and PoE is still the best ARPG ever made as far as I'm concerned

As someone who has played Diablo II off and on for almost 15 years and still love and play it occasionally, I agree with you. PoE is just an amazing game. Didn't think I would like another game as much as I do D2.

[–]psifusiStandard [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Chris man, you guys have made a great game, which for many of us has become one of our main passions, and sometimes it is hard to remember that when you vent to a game company employee on reddit, that there is a real person on the other side of the screen. I hope in some small way you can realize that it is only due to your success as a team that you have such passionate replies coming back at you, good or bad it shows how invested many of us are in your game, even if we lack the tact to communicate our concerns in a civil manner sometimes. I guess what im saying is just keep on keepin' on, you have made something great, and we all hope that it can continue to prosper for years to come, and we know you are doing all you can to see that through.

[–]mattzach84sittin' on the docks of the Wrae 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thank you for your input, Chris. I hope your comment is the wakeup call that the mods and users need to start enforcing reddiquette. Some of us have been asking for better behavior on this subreddit for years.

[–]headlessunicorn [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

wakeup call that the mods and users need to start enforcing reddiquette.

ASAP.

[–]hitachaiHC SHADOWFROMFINALFANTASY [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Chris, just realize that people who treat other human beings in that way in NO way reflect how the community in general feels towards you or your team.

Us adults appreciate you and your company so much and will continue to support you. We love what you have done for this genre and love your passion for your work.

Trolls will be trolling because they have nothing else in life, but to troll.

[–]Jackrarehc leagues [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Honestly, the way that some community members act causes developers to become upset.

Tell that to Brian_GGG(bob). In all seriousness, i'd guess most of the community holds respect for you and the devs and the decisions you guys put forth. The same most of us dislike the childlike backlash that always comes out. That happens in every subreddit, in every forum, in every activity though. There are always juveniles who are self-entitled and spew crap. I'm glad you have thick skin Chris. I hope the dev team takes the crying with a grain of salt.

[–]Bohemos [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

This doesn't surprise me at all. The entitlement that is present in this sub is astronomical. GGG shows that they listen, and people take advantage of it.

I've thought many times that I don't know how you guys do it. You consistently do not hear from people like myself, because I am enjoying the shit out of the game every single day. But you do consistently hear from the people who are entitled childish and disgustingly negative.

Squeeky fuckin wheel I guess.

[–]NeedsMoreShawarma [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Not only that, but sometimes I do take the time to make a post about something I like about what GGG has done. If it's an unpopular opinion, I get things like "Are you done sucking GGG's dick?".

Multiple times. From multiple people. Just wow.

[–]Killa4 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Chris, please never stop developing games. If poe had not been such an excellent and truly free to play game I may have never picked it up and found something in which to sink my time and money. You guys at GGG are amazing and I just want you to know that we'll never stop supporting you.

PS I think everyone needs to remember that we don't all have the same experience playing this game. For example Invasion League was my favourite and one of the only HC leagues I've played.

[–]tackle70Standard > all [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's sad that positive threads in feedback don't generate discussion so they get buried immediately. But I do hope that you guys browse through feedback to find the positive threads like mine so that you know that more people play this game than a vocal minority who offer primarily just unconstructive complaints.

Path of Exile is better than it's ever been and IMO you guys outdid yourselves with this expansion. By a long shot. As people get used to the changes, I think they will realize that.

Also some of this feedback is justifying of your philosophy of "we release overly difficult content and then nerf later"... essentially, PoE had become somewhat easy as people were familiar with all the content and how to make builds that could handle it very easily. Now, the content is difficult again and with a straight buff to difficulty comes a LOT of QQ and complaints.

[–]Mettle82 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Its always been like this unfortunately. Naysayers will be loud and the large, happy majority will quietly be enjoying this spectacular game

[–]daveinthecaveSuddenly_SRS [Warband] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Chris, I have been playing this game since back in open beta, and the one thing I've always been impressed with more than anything else is you and the rest of GGG's caring so much about the community and being so well in touch with the player base. Thank you so much for being awesome!

[–]aramatheismaps maps maps [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Logging in to say that this is a fantastic game, and you and your team are doing a great job!

GGG (to my knowledge) has never intentionally made any changes for the purpose of screwing over their playerbase. Changes are made to create balance and fairness in gameplay, between the most casual players and the most die-hard. Some players benefit, others don't. That's just how she goes!

Cheers

[–]daemmoniumExiled [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

A company with high standards in both developing and selling a game deserves a community of gamers with standards equally high.

Thanks for everything Chris and GGG, keep up the good work!

[–]AjidoDeathwing [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Fuck the haters, you guys have given me and my friends literally thousands of hours of entertainment of the years. You guys fucking rock. Sorry for the f-bombs, but I love GGG.

[–]Weerm [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm pretty upset over how mindless people act.

Today's change just removes the word "super" from that. It's still farmable but at a rate that isn't going to break things as much. Generally, the balance guys don't document drop rate changes.

This was 100% obvious for everybody I know, I'm sad my favourite company in the world needed to endure that hate because people in our community act like babies.

[–]hsmith711 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

the way that some community members act causes developers to become upset.

This is exactly why I get so furious when I see some of the stuff said. People work hard to put this AAA product in our hands (FOR FREE!) and the disrespect shown to them is disgusting.

The most frustrating thing is that a lot of the times the things those people complain about do get fixed or addressed.. which makes them think that form of complaining is effective. Some of them even say exactly that when you call them out for being so harsh and insulting.

MORE CAKES AND THANK YOUS TO GGG!

Also:

If everyone that has responded to Chris's comment or upvoted the responses would DOWNVOTE the mocking/insulting/degrading complaints and "feedback" it would all be BURIED. Remember "Knights of New?" it used to be a thing. The thing that would hurt me most as a GGG employee is seeing those comments and posts upvoted to the top of the page/thread.

[–]Illsonmedia [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Sadly, this is the state of certain parts of the Internet. It's awful...

[–]OnyxMelonBeta [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Just keep in mind that all the complaints are from people who think the game is great, but that it could be better. Otherwise they wouldn't care to complain as much as they do.

[–]Volareon [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I stopped playing POE after 1.2.0, just to take a break, but have been playing non-stop since 2.0 came out. I think you guys are doing a fantastic job, this expansion has been really fun. Keep up with the good work!

[–]BananacupBananakappa [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If it's any consolation, nobody becomes this upset over something if they're not passionate about it.

These people might be saying hurtful things, but it's mostly because they care about the game on such a level that they get emotional about it, and want to see it be the best they can be.

Don't get me wrong, that doesn't excuse their shitty behavior, and I get how much it must suck to be getting Blizzard levels of angry feedback as a company that is so community oriented that the lead developer replies to people on Reddit. But at the end of the day, these people love your game.

[–]AllSunsDawnStandard [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Honestly I have no harsh feelings towards the expansion and the majority of the community shouldn't either. I had a very happy ending to 1.3 doing the things I wanted to do for my Ranger to "see her off" as I started the new temp league. I really do wish I could have more friends online all the time though, those first three days of energy drinks, snacks, and 10+ hours a day made the experience really shine for me once again.

About the feedback and whatnot, I originally was surprised that people would be so negative towards a lot of the skill gem rebalances and mechanics tuning (or Eternal Orbs... hue), but after reading some of the build threads and seeing the massive hordes of sheep that are completely lost, it just dawns on me that people have gotten so used to being spoonfed information that only a minority of the community has any analysis ability or original thought.

Anyways, thanks for a great start to 2.0, hope it only gets better from here on out.

[–]Zoelotron [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's pretty important to remember that people are people. Sure, most of them are average, a minority of them are jerks, but whenever I get down on my job I start to remember that an even smaller minority is out there of people who are just straight up nice

for no reason

20% of clients: "Ugh, what do you mean I only get $xxx.xx per month? I DESERVE $xxxx.xx per month! This is an outrage! Physical violence threat!"

70% of clients: "Why are you calling me"

10% of clients: "Oh, that's ok. I don't mind that you're reducing [my sole source of income]. You sure are nice! How's your family? Gosh, sometimes, when I get really angry at someone, I just bake them muffins, and that makes me feel better."

"Can I have a muffin?"

"I'm not mad!"

Sometimes you have to do it for the people who just wont give you a muffin.

[–]MyristicBeyond [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm sure you've heard this a million times before, but always remember that most of what you hear is the vocal minority. This expansion has been an absolute blast for me thus far. All the act 4 boss fights are amazing.

[–]Dark_Chicken [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Perhaps the main reason why some community members are acting the way they do now is because you guys seem to not listen to feedback on the most substantial balancing issues anymore. Look at all the major balancing changes, it's safe to say the majority of players have strongly disagreed with almost every single one of them in one way or another. It's as if either GGG balance team's answer is nerf everything hard, or they are out of touch with its player base, who by the way, probably play 100x more of the middle-upper stages of the game than your balance team does and therefore, have a good idea of what's balanced or not (bias aside), and yet you guys refuse to listen or simply don't follow up on making things better.

EB, spell caster defense, CI, blood rage multiple nerfs, enlighten, AA... there's a pretty good list of frustrating things that your balance team basically 'shoved' down the players throats while not creating thoughtful solutions or listening to any feedback. Look at your beta feedback forum and how much you actually respond and listen to, probably nothing. Heck, you guys have every right to do whatever you want... but seems like it was a waste of time testing or providing feedback when the mindset all along has been 'we are going to do what we want' which isn't what players expected from GGG.

I won't even get to the problems and issues that specifically affects Standard base, which for some reason your entire team creates added frustration and does not give a dam about, making the saying 'no one cares about standard' so very, and sadly true. Your player retention in that league is going to suffer a lot after the initial hype fades because the loyal and long time players keep getting screwed and ignored, it's been going downhill for a very long time, I would bet. So many high level regulars who I play with don't log in anymore (no they aren't playing temp), and things are so much harder to sell than last summer, a strong indication that demand is lacking which means the player growth and interest just isn't there.

You'll probably ignore this like you do with every other real complaint, high lvl / STD player, because like everyone says and what GGG believes, no one gives a shit about STD.

[–]guthbertAssume I have something witty here [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

I'm having more fun in 2.0 then I've ever had before. I started out magma orb, hd fun with it, then somebody mentioned incantation div card, and then for the first time, I directly farmed the exact unique I wanted knowing I would eventually get it. Then I started icestorm and having a huge blast. I've been through prenerf malachi in a group, and anybody that was on the mumble chAnne that night knows how much fun we had. We died numerous times, but it was an insane blast. I actually had more fun prenerf then post nerd because of the insanity of the fight.

GGG has seriously outdone themselves this time. Thank you Chris and company.

[–]malboro_urchinPork__Cosby [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

You farmed up the Whispering Ice that quickly? You've encouraged me to give it a shot, rare though the cards might be!

[–]Microh [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Between farming in a specific area for the card, playing in a group while doing it (your party helping you with cards) and trading for the card with currency you amass along the way, it should be much easier to TARGET the item you want (if there is a card for it).

Depending on the rarity tier the player might still believe it takes too long - but it is certainly much easier to go for your specific unique :)

[–]guthbertAssume I have something witty here [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Took me 16 hours and I even over leveled it. It wasn't that bad. I also easily could have bought the 4th card after 6 hours but refused to.

[–]malboro_urchinPork__Cosby [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

If you don't mind, what was your strategy? I'm trying to get better at the game, and especially at getting currency. I don't think I can amass an exalt or more in 6 hours in my current state (on Warbands)

[–]guthbertAssume I have something witty here [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I ran the road, skipping arteri, and was doing each run in 1 1/2 - 2 minutes. I would occasionally hit warbands. I also opened every strongbox. I slapped an IIR gem on my magma orb to help amass rares.

[–]malboro_urchinPork__Cosby [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Did you roll the white boxes or just open them normally?

I also easily could have bought the 4th card after 6 hours but refused to.

Does this mean you got enough currency to buy a card from 6 hours of farming Western Forest alone?

[–]guthbertAssume I have something witty here [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, they were going for 20c, and I amassed enough random orbs in that time I could have converted everything into chaos and bought it. (Got lucky with 6s and a bunch of regals). I would throw a transmute on white strongboxes, but didn't find many really worth wasting too much currency on rolling well. If the first transmute wasn't awful I opened it then. I was aiming more for magic packs and non rip mods then anything.

[–]Izuzu__ 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think any company with a hot product will eventually attract criticism. The level of criticism may be too high, and unfortunately a lot of it isn't constructive, but sometimes there is a valid underlying point.

What I really dislike about this sub is that criticism/comments evoke a personal attack from another commenter. Why is this at all acceptable? Is it just because of the anonymity of the internet? A general example:

Person A: 'I don't really like how [x] works' or 'I don't like how [x] has changed'.

Person B: 'You clearly have no idea how [x] works'.

Person C: 'Lol Person A you're clearly stupid why would anyone do that or think like that'

Why does it instantly become personal rather than staying an impartial debate? It's pretty disgusting and unbelievably common.

[–]jimmahdean 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yup. I tried to explain in a thread why I like the game because it's complex, and how that's not due to a superiority complex. I was replied to with 'you're clearly not using your brain, I'm not going to talk to you anymore'

[–]feralragewarbands dual FT 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

I am, time and time again, surprised by how much coolness Chris exhibits. I don't know what he does before he posts (shooting guns, manually killing HC exiles by playing as a rouge exile, punching bag, etc) but he always seems so calm and collected in his posts. Most of the time he doesn't even need to explain the changes (they have been pretty good about figuring out what's best for the game for a while), yet he still comes and posts and explains himself. I've got nothing but respect for that.

[–]MardhynMellow Greetings [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I have been inactive for a couple months now on this subreddit due to a new job and the lull between patches in PoE. I came back with 2.0 and have been lurking on this subreddit again and about a half dozen times already I have been so outraged at someones comment that I go to respond to it, only to not go through with it because they won't care and I'll just get downvoted by them because I am not going along with whatever circle jerk is taking place.

A good example of this is the thread about map drops. The whole upper half of the thread is users saying the game is broken and the mapping system is garbage, GGG should of never changed it, and they base it on anecdotal evidence. The people who post they have had good experiences with the system are downvoted and trolled into leaving the thread. This is with less then a week into the new expansion mind you, and already five minor patches addressing balancing. Another example is saying Malachai is broken, how can GGG even excuse themselves for releasing the game in this state, and its the worse boss fight since the Russian fought Apollo.

Now I am not saying that we shouldn't have those threads. But instead of these mindless negative circle jerks that are reoccuring we could have positive discussions where people discuss how it could be overtuned and ways to combat that. We also need to have a way to enforce stricter moderation when a new patch comes out so that some of these "end of the world" problems can have time to be straightened out by GGG and new users don't see things like "GGG you broke the game, pls fix or I quit". This is the biggest time of growth for PoE and when the PoE subreddit is already small, having half the topics of discussion painting the new game in a doom n gloom scenario is counter productive and we may lose new players before they even start.

TL:DR Less negativity, complaining, and knee jerk reactions. More discussion and positive feedback for hot button issues.

[–]hitachaiHC SHADOWFROMFINALFANTASY 33ポイント34ポイント  (66子コメント)

The real issue is that the mods NEED to start regulating the toxicity in this sub.

I have over 1.5k hours (HC only because I like to raise my heart rate) in POE and I think the game is in the best state it has ever been.

If you like it ,play. If you don't, don't.

This sub is being filled with F2P trolls who want to have their cake and eat it too. The downfall with an open forum is that everyone thinks that since they HAVE a voice they should use it. Reality is that only the most negative people will stop playing the game to complain and these are the ones that we will see on this sub.

[–]Msmit71[M] 48ポイント49ポイント  (28子コメント)

Do you think a subreddit meta discussion is in order, to discuss changes to the rules? I'm interested in hearing people's opinions, since we prefer to make changes very deliberately in order to avoid backlash and drama.

[–]_Emmitt_[PoESkillTree Dev]: 996805[M] [スコア非表示]  (19子コメント)

We need new/better rules.

[–]TuxedoMarty [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Honestly, I read the rules and everything necessary is included + the actual reddiquette which is in ironical contrast to much content in this subreddit.

What I don't see is posts getting deleted. Which is on one hand a good thing, on the other hand a bad one. We don't need 10000 post mimicking the most upvoted one. If people would adhere to the reddiquette, this would not be an issue. Can mods edit posts instead of removing them? If so you could simply make a stance on this without people crying around "CENSORSHIT" immediately. Making people aware of the rules (most probably never saw them) in this way might actually help already.

Edit: Final edit, promise.

[–]_Emmitt_[PoESkillTree Dev]: 996805 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Mods can't edit what a user sees, except by removal of posts.

[–]TuxedoMarty [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

That is really unfortunate. A removed post is useless as people may see no context on why it was removed and therefore can't draw appropriate conclusions for their own behavior around here.

I heard that the new leadership is planning to change how posts can be approached by moderators. I hope you guys get better tools to work with!

Edit: Would it be possible to emulate such a function with a moderation bot? I don't know what 3rd party tools for you moderators are around to work with.

[–]_Emmitt_[PoESkillTree Dev]: 996805 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Editing posts still won't be a thing. We might get the ability to edit a title, but I doubt that. I think they want to give us better tools to see how users are behaving really.

[–]nonameownsLE SLAM [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

just permaban any retards

job done

[–]_Emmitt_[PoESkillTree Dev]: 996805 [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

We do that a lot. You should see the ban list...

[–]nonameownsLE SLAM [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

odds are they are dedicated enough to make a new account and continue being retarded

do mods have the ability to IP ban? that would stop the lazy trolls

[–]_Emmitt_[PoESkillTree Dev]: 996805 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Nope, we can just ban accounts. Although, I think reddit shadow bans users on the same ip as a banned account.

[–]moldyredditor2.0 is Best.0 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

It's certainly something that can be asked in major cases... I've had to do it on a large sub I mod before..

[–]_Emmitt_[PoESkillTree Dev]: 996805 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, most people stop after 1-2 accounts banned

[–]xDelrick [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

This subreddit has about 50k+ subs, of which that doesn't include people who haven't hit the subscribe button and just casually lurk.

You guys do a good job at moderating the shit that goes through here. Maybe you just need some new dedicated mods? I don't know how that process is handled, but I don't think 12(?) mods in a subreddit this build can realistically cover everything that goes here. That's NOT saying you guys don't do a good job.

[–]_Emmitt_[PoESkillTree Dev]: 996805 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

We can cover everything, the problem is catching everything. There isn't a person that can sit here for a few hours and read every post, it just doesn't work.

We need to gets reports and set up AutoMod to report/remove more.

[–]xDelrick [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Fair enough. I just still think it's a lot of work for the few guys/girls you have.

[–]Bohemos [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

You need to enforce the ones we have. It's not a matter of rules or 'stricter rules' its a matter of inaction by mods.

There's posts in this very thread that you should have banned the user and deleted the comment. If you can't keep up then get more who can and eliminate mods not doing anything.

[–]_Emmitt_[PoESkillTree Dev]: 996805 [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Our bad for not keeping up with thousands of posts when there is a report button :)

[–]Bohemos [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Well for one thing, I've seen the same few people consistently being children. We both are aware of that. We all know the names of 'this guy and that guy' who for... honestly... years... have been the ones to instigate.

Secondly... do you think going directly into defensive mode is a way to accept possible criticism?

[–]_Emmitt_[PoESkillTree Dev]: 996805 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

1) Use the report button then. We have banned a lot of people.

2) No, it isn't the correct way, but we aren't the only ones that can help improve this subreddit. I understand that we could do a bit more to clean up the subreddit, but we already do a lot.

I would like to get new rules in place before becoming stricter and explain what is happening and why.

[–]Bohemos [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Of course it's not the correct way. So why do it?

Obviously it's not only the mods, but the mods still bear some responsibility.

Simply claiming 'more strict rules' doesn't fix anything when the rules in place are not enforced very well.

That's why people will call you inept and censorship.

Figure out how to enforce what we have. Encourage reporting in a way that isn't 'well report it our it's not my responsibility' as this wording you are using is likely to make it seem.

Communicate more frequently with the user base when you take action, speak with people who do report stuff.

Don't take that as me saying 'this is how you fix it'. Take it as a beginning step in the process.

Being defensive when I was being pretty clearly not being rude is just going to make the community think your an ass, especially if you do jump straight to the easy and lazy approach of 'stricter rules'. Which honestly...when has that ever worked out to strengthen a community anyways..

[–]_Emmitt_[PoESkillTree Dev]: 996805 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Alright, we can enforce the rules better. Let me do some automod stuff.

[–]AlterChaos 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not sure much needs to be changed in the rules, as the Reddiquette itself has some of the exact things that should be enforced. Of course, this is just a quick, cursory glance, but that's what I got. Internet's gonna internet, and all. Flamers and pricks have a tendency to speak the loudest, but the good people aren't gone yet.

  • Remember the human. When you communicate online, all you see is a computer screen. When talking to someone you might want to ask yourself "Would I say it to the person's face?" or "Would I get jumped if I said this to a buddy?"

  • Adhere to the same standards of behavior online that you follow in real life.

That, or some people just don't know how to behave offline. Also very likely.

[–]hobbit_joe 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would. I lurk here but the way these posts have been going makes me want to not comment, not view threads, or even really interact with most people in game.

[–]hitachaiHC SHADOWFROMFINALFANTASY 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

I absolutely know there needs to be a meta discussion. This sub is the first place that MANY new players come to learn about the game. Seeing slews of toxic posts will really turn people off.

The core game itself is difficult enough to learn, and we as a veteran community need to help spread information to retain a constant influx of new players, as well help each other expand our knowledge in this ever evolving game.

[–]Izuzu__ 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

You need to create an environment in this sub where discussions that turn into personal attacks are absolutely not tolerated. See my comment below. This rapid degradation of a lot of controversial threads makes this sub look terrible.

[–]TuxedoMarty 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you guys think that limiting the use of the downvote button might circumvent the high contrast between sophisticated, reasoned post with unpopular content and posts that cry for attention? How are mods of other subs dealing with similar issues? I am guessing that you guys are involved in some moderator communities which might help you out with some perspective.

[–]anapoe [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Many other subreddits have reminders over the upvote/downvote arrows on how they're supposed to be used, and text over the comment boxes reminding commenters not to be hateful (or whatever).

[–]InsecticideENDLESS LEDGE [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

We need some more features to remind people how vote works and encourage healthier discussion. For example, many subreddits fill the text box with this and perhaps we could get more readable and more detailed downvote pop-up box example 1 example 2.

Edit: Sure, these features don't make miracles but I think they would help a bit

[–]bludgeonerV11211 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Aside from overt trolling absolutely no, censuring people for being overly negative about aspects of the game is foolish and unwarranted, people just need to get some perspective and thicker skin, and realise that just because a few dozen people currently are being vocal about their dislike of the game meta that doesn't necessarily reflect the consensus of players.

This is a reality on the internet, the sooner people come to terms with that and change their expectations the better.

[–]_Emmitt_[PoESkillTree Dev]: 996805[M] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I would just like to point out that we take out a lot of 'toxic' posts. We can't be in every thread, but AutoMod does a fairly good job. We can employ stricter rules to posting, but then there is a massive uproar because we are 'taking away free speech'.

I am all for stricter rules, but the community needs to understand it is because the community.

[–]hitachaiHC SHADOWFROMFINALFANTASY [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I appreciate your effort and I am not saying 'the mods don't do their job', you clearly do.

I think everyone just needs to take a look at this subreddit like it is their first time here and realize how off-putting it is in general for someone who is new to the game.

Something I have learned as I have grown up is that if you have a problem with something, suggest a solution. Maybe this type of meta should be implemented to help promote healthy discussion, and not blind troll rage. If you have a problem or disagree with a mechanic or change or direction of where things are going, state why and open up the forum for constructive discussion over what a solution or alternative should be. This is called a 'healthy discussion' and is what the forum should promote in general. This shifts a post from 'complaining' to 'discussing' and is far better for the community overall.

[–]NeedsMoreShawarma 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

The real issue is that the mods NEED to start regulating the toxicity in this sub.

I will agree that that's part of the issue, but you'd be ignoring another huge part if you don't consider the majority user behavior.

There is no point in getting good moderation for a sub completely filled to the brim with immature, disrespectful trolls. Not saying that's what /r/pathofexile is, but some threads definitely make you believe that.

People need to start actually downvoting shit posts, not just upvoting good posts. That's the whole point of reddit, what reddit wants to see floats to the top based on upvotes/downvotes.

[–]hitachaiHC SHADOWFROMFINALFANTASY [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The solution is a combination of aggressive moderation to remove toxicity and a communal effort to bury the offenders with downvotes.

[–]Buckminster23 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Be careful of generalizing; I'm a supporter since closed beta and I agree with every recent criticism of the game. "If you dont like it don't Play" is too simplistic; it's precisely BECAUSE we have a voice that anything changes at all. I don't see anyone posting threats or harassing; I just see "no fun allowed" x 50 which seems perfectly fine to me.

[–]hitachaiHC SHADOWFROMFINALFANTASY [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

You must generalize to speak to the masses. There is no other way.

[–]PlanarFreak [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I feel this comment really strikes true on the pitfall of politics/communication. If you wanna make a statement to a crowd, you gotta make it a simple edible soundbyte with clear edges and no gray areas. God forbid you present the smallest hint of uncertainty or compromise - the masses only understand absolutes.

Edit: fat fingered the submit on mobile

[–]liquidSGHardcore 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

What toxicity? People have raised valid concerns with the balancing and other than that many have expressed their personal, subjective experience on the new leagues. Which is the same, every time. And every league becomes better for it 1-2 weeks post-release.

The whole "if you like it - play, if you don't - dont" is silly. How about they change it for the better or at least discuss it? Both negative and positive threads get a lot of upvotes. I like the game, I don't like Tempest. I should stop playing the game instead of trying to make it better via feedback?

The last thing you said is just wrong on every level. Everyone should use their voice as they see fit. How about this: only the people who love the game the most will stop playing and take time to think and write down what could be improved and how?

[–]hitachaiHC SHADOWFROMFINALFANTASY [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Nobody is talking about you, we are talking about negativity in the community as a WHOLE.

Stop being so ego-centric, its not about YOU, its about US.

[–]liquidSGHardcore [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

It was an example. And am I not part of this community? You outright said that if someone doesn't like "it", they shouldn't play it. Was I supposed to know that somehow that excluded me? The whole is made up by individuals which you would be perfectly fine silencing.

How about you leave out personal characterizations out of this and stick to the points? Thanks.

[–]hitachaiHC SHADOWFROMFINALFANTASY [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If you read OPs post he is talking about how brutal people act towards the devs and the toxicity in general. These individuals are who I am referring to.

[–]RynnasSummoners on Warbands 12ポイント13ポイント  (9子コメント)

Censoring opinions that you disagree with in respect to the games balance is not healthy. That is far more toxic, circle-jerky and ultimately bad for the state of the game and the sub-reddit.

This "toxicity" that you think is horrible can actually be quite positive for the game. For a recent example take how the piety beam interacted with your minions as a summoner. People complained, GGG listened, GGG patched it quickly. That's a positive outcome.

But I do agree with the OP. We should be respectful to the devs when they go above and beyond to interact with the community and treat us with respect.

[–]KilokuReroll every week 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

Saying "I don't like this feature" is one thing. Saying "fuck you for developing this feature" is another, therein lies the toxicity.

Enraged outbursts seem to be favored over calm and controlled criticism in this subreddit. A comment is liked more if it "rekts" someone than if it casually disagrees.

[–]hitachaiHC SHADOWFROMFINALFANTASY 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

Getting RID of toxicity is not censoring disagreeable opinions. There is a huge difference between logical criticism and toxic criticism. One is productive, the other is not.

[–]mikeyHustleFar too many Warbands! 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is a great way to express this. I feel like the online commentary on video games for the last however-long has been deeply and twistedly confused about this very point.

[–]hertzdonut2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

F2P trolls

People that pay money are just as toxic (if not more so) than F2Players.

"I spent money so my opinion is more valid" seems to be some players modus operandi.

[–]hsmith711 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

This sub is being filled with F2P trolls

This this this. Every time I see shit comments and click the username I see the same thing.. posts in /r/leagueoflegends, /r/hearthstone, /r/dota2.. If it's F2P, they play it and get off by going online to talk about how much they hate it.

This is why I have always wanted a reddit clone that has a nominal membership fee. It's not about the money, it's about creating an environment without those people.

[–]LloydicusBeta Tester - Best Shitbuilds NA 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know free speech and all that, but I do wish the mods would take a more aggressive stance on taking down toxicity in this sub. Circle jerking about how every change is ruining poe every time something changes is not healthy for the community.

[–]CountCocofang [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

You do NOT want a heavily moderated forum. It will spark even more trouble and conflicts.

[–]hitachaiHC SHADOWFROMFINALFANTASY [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

If it promotes healthy discussion and gets rid of the toxic garbage that I see every day then I absolutely DO want a heavily moderated forum.

Constructive criticism is necessary for development and evolution, but damn it is rarely constructive around here.

[–]CountCocofang [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The problem starts when the line gets blurry regarding what is toxic and what is not. And it WILL get blurry really fast.

Then the whole deal will switch from "fuck toxic people" to "fuck nazi-mods" and once you have THAT discussion going you are way deeper shit.

[–]8ook14yflame totem OP 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think we should start utilizing the [serious] tag to distinguish which threads are meant for meaningful discussion and which are more for fun/trolling/fluff.

GGG loves to troll just as much as anyone, I would hate to see all negative/toxic posts be banned completely.

[–]ataraxy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Did I stumble into the LoL sub reddit, the circlejerk is strong here.

Complaining about poor balance decisions is fine. Being an asshole is not.

[–]hsmith711 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

The crazy thing about this... is that this thread, and others like it get a lot of upvotes and positive feedback... but at the same time, threads and comments that mock/insult changes to the game in a whiny manner are also massively upvoted.

Obviously it's not all the same people, but the problem is that the decent people don't have the time or willingness to downvote shit content/comments that don't contribute to the discussion of Path of Exile.

There is a lot of good feedback that critiques aspects of the game.. but those posts/comments rarely have the popularity of "this sucks - map drops are shit. game ruined."

As long as the upvote to downvote ratio is 5:1 - shit content will continue to be on the front page and at the top of threads.

[–]EatThePath 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hear hear. Not saying everything needs to be sunshine and roses, but damn it's getting depressing seeing the daily complaints about Warbands and Tempest not living up to whatever outlandish fantasy people managed to cook up about them, for instance, get upvoted to the moon.

[–]MorsexierBloodline [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Im going to buck the trend here and say, the sub in terms of the things youre talking about has been amongst the best its ever been. Ive been here since basically when Chris founded the sub, and while it might seem like there are more shit posts, in reality they are usually drowned out by the scores of good posts.

People always think things are getting worse when usually things are getting far better. In my experience the only glaring issues have been when moderators over moderated, and that Mod has since stepped down. Things like this are bound to happen because a few have the unenviable task of trying to regulate the many.

These changes where what was once allowed before might not be tolerated now is simply a consequence of the burgeoning size of the sub. Its the same with how at times GGG deals with balance in the game. There is an underlying issue, and the resultant problem that arises from the issue. Sometimes we get both a fix to the problem along with an adjustment for that issue, leading to where things get "double nerfed".

This can be a bummer if it happens to be the spec of choice for you, or to pull an example out of the sky, if something like rathpith becomes rarer than Shavronne's, but on the whole means the game and content will be more polished and more incredible to play than ANYONE would have thought possible in 2012.

You guys see a shit post once in awhile, but i see a place full of questions for Chris, cool build guides, meta discussions and theorycrafting, and very very little real or typical Mors like drama. Our little boys all growds up.

[–]ComethTheRogueAlways Check For Traps [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

For me it's less the posts themselves, and more the individual replies within posts. For example, I just saw one recently where someone was asking for advice on how to play evasion, and there were whole replies devoted solely to how the person must just be terrible at the game and doing it wrong. Possibly the OP did need more practice, but there are about 18724176517265 nicer and more helpful ways to say that. Of course, many people responded helpfully, but I see SO MANY awful, rude, unnecessarily harsh replies that somehow get upvoted... it's hard not to feel bad about it, sometimes.

[–]sirgog [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

One problem is people taking balance changes as personal insults.

If (hypothetically speaking) crit sweep was an overpowered build, and you make a crit sweep build, then three weeks later it gets nerfed hard, GGG aren't doing that to spite you. They are doing it to make the game better overall.

I've seen what happens to games that refuse to nerf overpowered abilities but instead buff other things to their level. They either become super-easy, super-gimmicky or content doesn't last long.

[–]bludgeonerV11211 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Let's put in the effort to make our community great too.

That's like trying to herd several million unruly sheep with a handful of sheep dogs, it's just not possible. The best we can do is be more vocal in counter to some of the more toxic people on this sub and in-game, but be realistic that this isn't a real 'community' and referring to it as such is naive, this is an extremely disparate collection of individuals with their own opinions, ideas and attitudes and some of them, like elsewhere on the internet, are loud unruly assholes.

[–]Dynamythe 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

There are a lot of opinions, opinions everywhere. In all the negative posts people express their displeasure with this and that. In the end you have threads filled with negativity which turns into ironic and sarcastic comments. This is not about some trolls, that just wanna mess around. These are all people that love the game for what it is/was. The love for it goes this deep, so that people spend their time debating every ounce of change, because they are THAT passionate about it. They give themself a voice, which echoes through reddit, BUT stops being constructive pretty quick.

It's always the same cycle that comes around after even slight nerfes. The still-happy players go play the game, the unhappy seek the negative threads and go hunt. Displeasure should be expressed, but not in the way said above.

[–]SirProblematiquecome support the PoEWiki! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In this subreddit something is either OP or useless. Jack in the Box is nerfed? It's fucking garbage now, eventhough we have no idea how much it's nerfed! Acro change? No viable build is ever gonna run that shit!

Overreactions everywhere. There is no middle ground.

[–]EnaxionHeHadItComing -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I love GGG with all my heart and I genuinely believe they're the best game developers ever formed. And when you put it like this I seriously feel like crying, because I feel you hurt a part of me, a part of which I love. That is PoE and GGG. You always behave rude to them but Do you really think it was okay that everyone used phase run? Do you really think that it was okay that everyone could run 10 auras? Do you really think that it was okay everyone could have unlimited curse duration? Do you really think it was okay that everyone used reduced mana? Do you really think it was okay that everyone could farm Jacks in the Box like theres no tomorrow?

Everything they ever did was for their game and us with it. They have feelings for gods sake guys ;/

[–]Kinne [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I've said it plenty of times at patch notes etc. As much as I love how responsive and open GGG are about their thoughts they should probably just keep a bunch of stuff to themselves.

So many idiots start the doomsday preach about something getting lowered by 1% and jump to their own conclusions about an idea that they then take for granted to be 100% happening even though it was just something being internally tested.

[–]Bohemos [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Everyone should recognize that the people crying and bitching and threatening to leave and stuff are a enormous minority in the community.

The ones who aren't being children with their 20 page list of complaints are enjoying the game and not posting about it every 5 seconds.

[–]JizzerWizard [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I can not say this any better or louder but...

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE PEOPLE WHO BITCH AND COMPLAIN NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO.

How some go about it...well, these certain individuals are entitled dingleberries. But you shouldn't let it upset you because you already know.