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Let's talk content. AMA. (self.announcements)

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[–]abcabcdeabc 442ポイント443ポイント x4 (105子コメント)

I have been a redditor for a very long time, and I've been part of a range of kinds of communities that vary fairly significantly.

I am also a female who was raped, and this is something I have been opened about talking fairly frequently on reddit.

I disagree with the ban of the aforementioned sub, because I feel that it sets a precedent depending on what the society deems appropriate to think about, and what it does not.

Please note, that I can not and do not pretend to speak for any woman who was raped besides myself.

What I am concerned with is this distinct drawing of a line between the people who own the site, and the people who create the content on the site. Reddit appealed to me because it was the closest thing to a speaking democracy I could find in my entire existence, utilizing technology in a way that is almost impossible to recreate across large populations of people otherwise.

This sequence of events marks this as a departure from that construct. From today onwards, I know that I am not seeing clusters of people with every aspect of their humanity shown, as ugly as it may be sometimes. I feel that it is not the subreddit that causes subs like /r/rapingwomen to exist, but this stems from a larger cultural problem. Hiding it or sweeping it under a rug from the masses is not what solves the problem; I have already lived under those rules and I have seen them to be ineffective at best and traumatizing / mentally warping at worst.

People's minds should not be ruled over by the minds of other people, and that is what I feel this has become. Internet content is thought content, idea content. It is not the act of violence - these are two very separate things. You can construct a society that appears to value and cherish women's rights in the highest regard, and yet the truth can be the furthest thing from it.

I really would hope that you would reconsider your position. To take away the right of being able to know with certainty that one can speak freely without fear, I don't have many words to offer that fully express my sadness at that.

The problem is not the banning of specifics. The problem is how it affects how people reason afterwards about their expectations of the site and their interactions with others. It sets up new social constructs and new social rules, and will alter things significantly, even fractions of things you would not expect. It is like a butterfly effect across the mind, to believe you can speak freely, and to have that taken away.

[–]nihilisticzealot 16ポイント17ポイント  (4子コメント)

The problem, as I see it, with subs like this (which will remain forever blue to me), is not just that they present a world view that we find offensive, but rather they foster an environment where this sort of mindset given some normalcy.

As a dude, I hear guys talking about how "women" as a gender are a problem for them. Usually after a break-up, usually by the young and stupid, and usually after several beers. A proper person feels embarrassed later as having said those things, and realizes that to blame a gender for one's own personal woes is a juvenile thing to do. But what if they don't? What if they have the kind of sick mind that starts to believe women are to blame for all that ails him?

Well, he might go to the internet and find communities of people who feel the same way as him, because he sure as shit is not going to find a guy with a sandwich board for "Misogynists Unite!" walking down the street. Do these internet communities drive someone to commit heinous acts? No, but they reinforce, protect, and cherish the idea that raping a woman is not horrible. That wanting to do these things is OK.

If there was a /r/punchpeoplewithmoustaches that had as much traffic and content as /r/rapingwomen, I would be seriously concerned for my safety walking down the street, and that isn't even including the history of violence against women in our society. I think you're right, this stuff shouldn't be swept under the rug, that there are discussions we need to have. But could we have those discussions without making it easy for wannabe rapists to find one another and feel good about themselves?

[–]thaw12 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Exactly. This isn't about "No more talking about rape", this is about "No more encouraging of rape".

[–]PM_ME_UR_OBSIDIAN 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

This isn't about "No more talking about rape", this is about "No more specific, imminent and realistic encouraging of rape".

[–]protestor 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Which, of course, means that the experience of reddit users are filtered, by very inconsistent policymakers.

[–]ILAMTM -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

but rather they foster an environment where this sort of mindset given some normalcy.

Well no one thinks rape is normal, even though it's completely natural.

As a dude, I hear guys talking about how "women" as a gender are a problem for them. Usually after a break-up, usually by the young and stupid, and usually after several beers.

Completely natural, genders are different.

What if they have the kind of sick mind that starts to believe women are to blame for all that ails him?

Yes, and, what if? People have stupid ideas all the time.

If there was a /r/punchpeoplewithmoustaches that had as much traffic and content as /r/rapingwomen, I would be seriously concerned for my safety walking down the street

Then you need to see a psychiatrist.

the history of violence against women in our society.

Well it's less than the history of violence that has to do with men, so how is that an argument.

[–]ApplicableSongLyric 22ポイント23ポイント  (2子コメント)

Plus, as a victim of sexual abuse, I find it to be VERY helpful in discussing and developing counter and protective strategies by peering into communities like this and seeing how the userbase ticks.

Information is POWER.

By stripping information and avenues of information away from us because some users don't know how to get out of their chair and walk away from their computer potentially endangers US.

[–]PabloEdvardo 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. Every time you start restricting this type of content, it doesn't go away, it just gets better at hiding.

[–]Chat_Bot -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nono, banning these subs totally means these people won't be on the internet. I don't think you get it, they are gonna BAN them. Really just take this as a win for moral decency and forget those people even exist.

[–]novaskyd 30ポイント31ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you. As a woman I am glad to see my opinions shared by someone who has more right than most (I think) to say what they want done about the uglier parts of reddit. I value the "speaking democracy" of this site far more than I do whatever psychological safety would come from banning certain kinds of speech.

[–]StopCannibalismNow 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for saying this. As one of the Internet's greatest resources of open and free communication, reddit's role in the modern web cannot be understated, and should not yield to a technological environment threatened by misguided notions of political correctness.

[–]Eustace_Savage 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

this stems from a larger cultural problem. Hiding it or sweeping it under a rug from the masses is not what solves the problem;

Beautifully said.

[–]Aon_from_accounting 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I really, really appreciate your comment. It's insightful, thought provoking, well thought out, and clear as a bell. It's this sentiment that made me love reddit as much as I do as well, and it's comments like these that have kept me here over the years because reddit as a whole, for lack of a better term, has made me feel like I'm not the only one who feels like this.

That being said, all of this will be ignored, and none of it matters to what's on the table, the actions reddit is about to take, and why they're taking them.

They're banning /r/rapingwomen because it garners negative press, which in turn scares away advertisers and leaves them answering uncomfortable questions at investment meetings and social gatherings. The exact same truth is what lies behind the banning of /r/jailbait, /r/creepshots, and /r/thefappening (with the added benefit of lawyers being involved in that one). /r/fatpeoplehate was banned because of the commerical interest reddit shares with Imgur and Imgur staff members being called out and "harrassed" by members of FPH.

In the end, like all things, it's about money. Plainly. Everything else here is window dressing. They're nice, well formulated words expressing decent opinions that are easy to get behind in theory. Sadly, it's a circlejerk. All of it.

I'll continue to use reddit until /r/gamedeals starts to suck (if it ever does) so I'm not one of these "I'm going to voat!" like people, but at the same time I'm saddened. I was never a fan of any of the reddits banned, but I was not happy about any of their bannings for the same reasons you are expressing. They were there to show the parts of our society that we don't like. Just because they're banned doesn't mean they don't exist. I'd much rather they were out in the open and that we didn't have this terrible mentality that just because we shove things like this under the rug means we're ok now and everything is status quo.

The FBI/Attorney General has tried many cases against the porn industry for violating "community standards." These trials have happened in the same communities where cable companies report large portions of their profits coming from pay-per-view porn. This line of reasoning, "because I don't like this thing it shouldn't exist" is no different then the crazy people who take over PTA groups and demand Harry Potter books be banned from school.

If you're offended, change the channel. It's an argument as old as the radio. There's a reason for that. I think the people who created reddit understood this argument loud and clear. Their previous statements support this conclusion. They're actions do not. Why? That's where the money comes in, and the rubber meets the road.

[–]librarymania 17ポイント18ポイント  (15子コメント)

As another woman that has been raped, I agree with you 100%. Very well said. Thank you.

[–]Peachykeengreat 53ポイント54ポイント  (14子コメント)

As yet another woman who has been raped I disagree. especially when it comes to r/philosophyofrape which actively promotes raping women as well as discusses when their subscribers have committed rape. A message needs to be sent that wanna be rapists shouldn't have a venue to talk about their fucked up plans or rapists can encourage other rapists to commit rape.

[–]dorkrock2 26ポイント27ポイント  (9子コメント)

Banning it won't send any messages. No one needs to be told that raping is wrong. No rapist has ever said "but I didn't know it was illegal officer." Furthermore it looks like that sub is just shitty satire just like the racist subs, so at most the ban would simply fill the trolls with a smug sense of accomplishment for getting the admins involved.

I'm not against banning it because it's braindead stupid like most troll subs and reddit would be better without them, but like spez said, those shitty areas of reddit are opt-in and if you find yourself browsing them you're effectively opting into being offended.

[–]Teelo888 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

Banning it won't send any messages.

It won't send much of a message, but it will prevent the propagation of the idea that raping is ok. The idea is to prevent the echo chamber or "venue" from existing. Perhaps someone that has considered raping someone finds the subreddit and sees others talking about it, and then decides to go on and do it because people that have done it said it was great.

If /r/coontown were banned, do you think some people that would have otherwise found the subreddit in the future would be saved from becoming at least a little more racist? I do.

But yet in this comment chain all these people want the rape subreddit to stay because they want reddit to be an online society that is perfectly representative of the one we live in? Lol. It is more important to me that we prevent toxic ideas that can harm real society from having a platform to proliferate; ESPECIALLY to the people who aren't corrupted by these ideas yet, and can still be saved by decisive action right now.

Edit: For example, this is taken from a few posts down on the frontpage of /r/PhilosophyOfRape:

I'm starting to really feel this subreddit. (self.PhilosophyOfRape)

submitted 29 days ago by

At first I was skeptical of this after finding this subreddit after the "fattening", being a TRP poster, but then having thought about this deeply, I think the Philosophy of Rape is the one true philosophy. Corrective rape would do much to heal the wounds in our society, and help guide sluts into knowing the true way. I wish to count myself among you Philosophers and learn tips, and tricks of the trade.

[–]dorkrock2 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Perhaps someone that has considered raping someone finds the subreddit and sees others talking about it, and then decides to go on and do it because people that have done it said it was great.

Good point and I agree.

all these people want the rape subreddit to stay

No one wants the rape sub to stay, they just don't want yet another precedent to be set for reddit to ban offensive subs willy nilly. The whole point of the opt-in idea is that you are choosing to be offended by these shitty subs. There are hundreds if not thousands and an infinite number of potential offensive subs to any given user and admins can't feasibly ban them all, and even starting to ban them brings into question the moral compass that directs the hammer.

Rape is clearly not up for dispute, but religious subs are, political subs are, gender subs are. When the offending content becomes less obviously an unconditionally bad thing to have on the site--yet users still complain about it being offensive--then admins have even more work to do to either ban something they don't think should be banned or break the precedent and keep something despite the mobs pounding on the door.

[–]Teelo888 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I agree with pretty much everything you said. The real distinction (that I should've already clarified myself on) is when a sub possesses an atmosphere that leads to harm in real life. The raping subreddits that encourage people to rape do that. FPH was causing people real life emotional distress.

I don't really care if shit is offensive if it's not harming anyone, but harm to other people is where I unequivocally draw the line. I would think most people would agree with that. I don't want Reddit making rapists.

[–]dorkrock2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed. It's more and more evident with each comment I read by spez that he's making it up as it goes. These policies, despite existing since before he left the first time, still haven't been refined enough to allow admins to confidently take action against subs that clearly cross the line between harmful and "offensive to some and therefore perceived as harmful."

He's asking for recommendations on policy as if reddit isn't a 10 year old business, which may be a good thing because if it doesn't have its shit together after 10 years, asking users what they want on (and off) the site is probably the first step to getting it in order.

[–]DataLoreThrowaway 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

It won't send much of a message, but it will prevent the propagation of the idea that raping is ok.

I'm sorry, what? The idea that rape is okay isn't going to go away or even be dissuaded by the simple banning of a subreddit.

If /r/CoonTown were banned, do you think some people that would have otherwise found the subreddit in the future would be saved from becoming at least a little more racist? I do.

Nope. People who are racists are going to be. Period. You don't just stumble upon coontown and suddenly go: "Wow, my views have been completely changed."

Even the poster you cited already wanted to like the subreddit he posted in. He agreed with their underlying points and came to his own conclusion.

You can't delude yourself into thinking that it would be better to sweep issues under the rug than to expose them to the light of day and critical thinking. You can't really believe that only your personal pet philosophies and viewpoints should be the only ones expressed.

Inciting violence against others?

"War is good" is a viewpoint that incites violence. Should that viewpoint be banned?

[–]Teelo888 -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

We will just have to agree to disagree then, because I believe that people's views can be changed by regularly visiting somewhere like /r/coontown or /r/fatpeoplehate.

"War is good" is a viewpoint that incites violence. Should that viewpoint be banned?

While I do hate war, I think you make a good point. I'll think about this.

[–]DataLoreThrowaway 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Now you're just sort of copping out on the discussion, though. "I agree to disagree" and "I'll think about this" translates to:

"I wanted to get a reply in immediately without having to put forth effort into constructing an actual argument. Also, after posting this cop-out, I won't ever have to reply with the things I've supposedly "thought about"".

This is reddit. You need to actually construct an argument.

[–]HotSauceJohnson 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I believe that people's views can be changed by regularly visiting somewhere like /r/coontown[1] or /r/fatpeoplehate[2] .

Were yours?

[–]HotSauceJohnson -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It won't send much of a message, but it will prevent the propagation of the idea that raping is ok.

I didn't even know it existed until today when the admin linked to it. Great job snuffing out that idea.

[–]STEM_logic 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm pretty sure most of the posters on that sub are trolls/kinksters, the language they use is a giveaway, if that helps. I mean, how many people have you seen admit to being current drug dealers on reddit? There are no doubt tons of drug dealers on reddit.

[–]librarymania 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I completely understand and empathize with your feelings about this.

However, these kinds of discussion forums and much, much worse exist on the dark net, and they aren't difficult to find. They will always have a venue to talk about it on either the clear net or the dark net. It may be on Reddit, and it may not. But discussion between like-minded individuals on the internet isn't going to stop, on any topic, no matter how illegal or disgusting it may be. Banning them on Reddit is not going to send them a message. They aren't going to suddenly wise up and say to each other "Hey guys, maybe we shouldn't be talking like this." They're just going to find another place to go. They're doing it already in /r/RapingWomen.

As an aside - I've looked at both of those subs a fair amount over the past two years, and I'm in agreement with /u/STEM_logic that it is very likely mostly trolls posting this stuff. But there is no way to tell, and there is a good chance that a tiny percentage of their users are authentic. Not that the fact that most are trolls makes a difference. It's just something to be aware of. They're idiots.

[–]Teelo888 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Holy shit. After 30 seconds, I will say that subreddit is fucking terrible. That's like state-of-nature, ruthless shit in there. This is a fantastic example of a place that allows a toxic idea to spread, where wannabe rapists can seek (and receive) validation from others that are rapists. IMO those guys should take that shit elsewhere, and the blood shouldn't be on Reddit's hands for giving them an easy-to-find place to congregate and discuss that kind of shit.

[–]dpfagent 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

It sets up new social constructs and new social rules

that's the whole point! To make it clear that rape and murder are NOT ok.

[–]gilthanan 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Since when is "don't rape and murder" a new social rule or construct? I mean for fuck sake. Just because that person clearly has to overcompensate by stating that everything is a result of personal agency doesn't mean that is exclusively the case.

[–]dpfagent 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In the context, it's not new, but it sets up those social constructs and rules

[–]newacco 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The problem is how it affects how people reason afterwards about their expectations of the site and their interactions with others. It sets up new social constructs and new social rules, and will alter things significantly, even fractions of things you would not expect.

Finally someone gets it. With these rules reddit will lose its uniqueness, it will be like any other forum on the net. The huge creative output or reddit comes from how free people feel here. People think that "oh people are doing this here? Then they might like my awkward stuff too". Look at 4chan, its responsible for 80% of the internets creative output for a reason.
I predict that in a few years will derange to the level of 9gag in a good case, or will meet the fate of digg.

[–]MadWorldByGaryJules 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or how about we just ignore your entire comment and heed Occam's Razor, which dictates that you are a man who created this brand new account 4 days ago in anticipation of this AMA for the sole purpose of pretending to be a woman so you could try to coerce the admins into not banning your favorite bigoted/misogynistic/violent/hateful subs.

I gilded your comment just so the admins would have a little more money to throw towards detecting and banning hateful men such as yourself.

[–]bizness_kitty 8ポイント9ポイント  (42子コメント)

Amen.

Fucked up people deserve a place to talk about fucked up things, as long as that is all it is.

[–]Kac3rz 51ポイント52ポイント  (40子コメント)

They can pay for their own servers and bandwith for that place, though.

Reddit has no obligation, moral or otherwise, to provide that.

[–]jack_skellington 40ポイント41ポイント  (18子コメント)

And that's fine, but then they need to say they're abandoning the stance they previously took, and they need to brace for heated discussions about that, and they need to brace for large numbers of people to leave.

And the community here, which has so far sorta laughed and said, "Only the losers are leaving," will need to brace for mods, content creators, and interesting posters who care about free speech to also leave. It won't just be a few losers. It will be all the people who care about free speech, including some very valuable, important people in the community.

Maybe that loss will be worth it. Maybe it will leave Reddit a shell of what it was. But if the company (and some of its fans, like you) want to say, "Screw you guys, go elsewhere," then you gotta expect that there will be friction as those people deal with the change in policy, and there will be a lot of "friendly fire" as Reddit loses more than they expected.

So sure, your point stands. It's going to hurt Reddit, though. Maybe that's worth it. Maybe it's not.

[–]Magus10112 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Great post.

[–]Internetcoitus 18ポイント19ポイント  (6子コメント)

It does not but we also have the right to express our dissatisfaction/disappointment in the decision for reddit not to provide that place. We're not saying reddit has to, we're are saying that they should.

[–]Kac3rz -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

we're are saying that they should

The thing is, there is no rational reason, they should.

[–]Hulu_ 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

The rational reason is to provide a place "to have open and authentic discussions". Is this not the point of almost all internet forums?

[–]Kac3rz 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

The point of all online forums is to be a place to have a discussion within the boundaries decided by the owner(s).

The boundaries can be as simple as the topics of discussion (you will be banned from a soccer forum, if you constantly post about volleyball, for example) or more complicated.

I never saw anything, including the old quotes from the creators, that would say reddit will have no boundaries.

[–]Hulu_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good point.

But /r/soccer users can downvote posts about volleyball or their admins can remove that content because it's irrelevant. That's the great thing about reddit: It doesn't need rules to moderate unpopular posts, it has the community of users to do so. Just like racism isn't illegal, but it's frowned upon.

[–]Internetcoitus 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is true but as I said we're still allowed to express our dissatisfaction with the specific boundaries that reddit have decided to implement site wide, and they're still allowed to have those boundaries.

[–]DataLoreThrowaway 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I never saw anything, including the old quotes from the creators, that would say reddit will have no boundaries.

They did say as few boundaries as possible. That was the whole point!

[–]GatorDontPlayThatSht 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

I've paid for gold, so I can complain if I'd like, and I totally agree with /u/abcabcdeabc we should acknowledge the world is full of people, and content that is evil, hateful and bad, and we should still be able to exist. Maybe the admins and some of you can't relate to that because of where you live, or what you experience. But I've watched a guy eat his own shit on a subway, so I've learned that there are people out there like that. I can't change them, and don't want to, I just want to avoid them. I didn't even know about the women rape sub until it was brought up here, think about that, by banning and addressing that sub on this thread /u/spez has literally drawn it more attention than it would have ever gotten left alone unbanned.

[–]Teelo888 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Honest question, do you think that providing a place (hosting the subreddit) where rapists can talk about raping could potentially provide validation to those rapists, making rape seem more "ok" than it otherwise would have been had they never found a rapist community?

[–]GatorDontPlayThatSht 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

They're going to just make another sub, the idea oof even banning subreddits is ludicrous if it isn't illegal because the trolls are going to have a field day re creating them over and over. There will always be those users on this site, and they want to take their sub, where do you think they'll go?

Look at all these:

/r/beatingwomen2 /r/suicide_advice /r/CuteFemaleCorpses /r/RapeHumor /r/HotRapeStories /r/PicsOfDeadKids /r/KillingWomen /r/SexyAbortions /r/RapingRetards /r/misogyny /r/ChokeABitch /r/Feminism /r/painal /r/necroporn /r/BeatingCripples /r/nazi /r/GOREgousWomen /r/FeministHate /r/PhilosophyOfRape

Most encompass the exact same ideology, what will /u/spez do about those? Do you really think they can remove this content from reddit? I don't.

[–]Teelo888 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't assert that the admins would ever be able to complete stomp every bit of it out, but I think you have to concede at least that banning an on-the-rise toxic sub would in effect "cut the head of the snake," and force those subscribers to either disperse and forget about it, or make an attempt to regroup. FPH seems to have dispersed, so we have a recent example of it working pretty well.

[–]GatorDontPlayThatSht 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fph is still all over reddit though, and there are several fph clones operating currently, their sub ban failed miserably, as will these others. You guys really underestimate the motivations of the average internet troll. They made it up fatpeoplehate10000 before they just used sneaky names to hide. You cannot erase these subs or their content, the admins are doing this at the cost of stability in the community. They don't care about your experience here, they care about CNN saying "they allow hate and violent subs." They think that deleting is the best course for their profits, but forget that reddits community doesn't operate based on their profits.

[–]DataLoreThrowaway 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I suppose you haven't actually read any psychological studies about the entrenchment of people who are told their ideas simply aren't allowed to even be discussed.

You haven't cut the head of the snake. You've cut a hydra's head. The people of FPH are here, and they always will be, showing up wherever you don't want them. They used to be contained, but now the admins have made every single one of them that much more entrenched in their ideology.

[–]Frekavichk 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

What a stupid argument. You can apply that to literally anything.

Reddit can just shut the whole place down tomorrow, they have no obligation to provide reddit.

[–]Kac3rz -3ポイント-2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Exactly, they can. That's why a mature person should understand and respect the decisions of the admins, rather than act like a victim of censorship.

[–]Hulu_ 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Their business is the users' content. A mature person understands the decisions of the admins, but the admins should also understand the decisions of the users. The users are what make reddit reddit.

[–]Frekavichk 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

So any change the admin makes we should all just celebrate?

What kind of shitty logic is that? If something admins do is retarded, you call them out on it. We aren't yes-men.

[–]jellymanisme 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

You don't have to celebrate. You just have to realize that it's the admin's decision to make and, if they decide to make that decision, that is their right to do it and you have no right to the subreddits they choose to ban, or content they choose to ban. Furthermore, you have no recourse beyond going somewhere else or asking nicely for the subreddits back.

[–]DataLoreThrowaway 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

We can, however, show them how they are being hypocrites and are stifling free speech.

[–]jellymanisme 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's really not stifling free speech unless they actively prevent you from saying it anywhere else. You are still free to go hate on fat people somewhere else.

[–]DataLoreThrowaway 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We should be free to do it here as well, as there's nothing wrong with it.

"We're not stifling free speech, we're just censoring your opinion on the largest user-content generating website on the internet that claims to be pro-free-speech!"

Bullshit.

[–]Rastafak -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I suggest you pay for server hosting for them? Why should reddit do it?

[–]menareamazing 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Beautifully said. Thanks for sharing your perspective and I hope some of this message gets through to /u/spez. Banning should be the very last thing we do to subreddits we don't like. Whether or not we agree or disagree with their point of view. That is part of what makes us human

[–]JustadudeAMA 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Very well write, I hope this gets a lot more attention. By sweeping things under the cover, they come out the other side, angryer, and spill all over reddit. FPH was a perfect example.

[–]colombiom 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's funny, I didn't even know that /r/rapingwomen existed until Steve brought it up. Would it be possible to ban controversial subreddits without giving them more attention than they deserve? Doubt it.

[–]87x8gfh 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sorry but as a woman who also was raped, I am glad to see that subreddit gone. Its users stalked a subreddit meant for supporting rape survivors, which I think counts as intimidating that subreddit's userbase. Even without such behavior, the mere advocacy of violence against a group (women) is enough for me to want it to be vaporized, because that in itself is harmful.

[–]abcabcdeabc 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree that you make a very strong point, but I believe we draw lines in different places. I see the behavior of crossing over into a support group subreddit with provably demonstrated action that indicates malicious activity onto a targeted group as fundamentally different and provably, hard line separable from the action of a group of people wishing to spread their vitriol among themselves.

I do not expect to come to a conclusion on either of these points, I find myself conflicted between your side and mine, both of which I believe have very strong points.

The problem I have is there is the belief that one set of actions leads to another through, and people can predict this through some kind of foreshadowing or otherwise, mostly imaginary intuition. The other is knowing what one has observed. In my mind, I have learned through much pain to always keep these separate, because it is this constant imagining of what will happening based on what has happened that keeps fueling these cycles of hate on hate. On this level of reasoning, it really doesn't matter which group you agree with, because it is this action of one group of people controlling another that causes this cycle to sustain itself. The last thing I would want to give to a rapist or anyone who expresses their hate onto me, is their ability to control me, or my society.

I will continue thinking on this, I hopefully will be able to continue thinking about it independently, regardless of the route the admins of reddit choose to pursue. Thank you sincerely for politely expressing your position to mine. I can understand the anger, I can empathize with it absolutely. But I don't want to react to it, nor do I want to shape my society around it, nor do I want that anger to control my life.

[–]royaltoiletface 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't believe that someone who was raped would use the fact so trivially just to give attention to a Reddit post. I'd like to point out I don't like the new batman vs superman teaser because my entire family was killed by ISIS.

[–]De_Facto 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You think someone would do that? Just go on the Internet and tell lies?

/s

[–]Bannakaffalatta1 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

The account was also JUST created. Seems legit.

[–]redefining_reality 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wish this was higher up, because this is my favorite comment in this thread.

If I had money for gold or knew how to /r/bestof I would.

Thank you for saying what was necessary.

[–]malaislinn 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You have articulated this so well, I have been trying to put words to this, I am going to save this, thank you.

[–]helix19 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are you afraid you're going to accidentally threaten to kill someone?

[–]BourbonScotchWhiskey 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Redditor for 4 days. Checks out. Long time.

[–]helljumper230 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I hope /u/spez reads that.

[–]siftingflour -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fantastic post.