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Does God really exist? (self.Christianity)

BobbyBooey123 が 投稿

If there's a loving, compassionate God then why does he (or she) allow so many innocent children and adults to suffer?

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[–]Evangelical Lutheran Church in AmericaPanta-rhei 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

This is called the problem of evil. Much has been written about it that's worth reading.

Edit: welcome to reddit!

[–]Southern BaptistWG55 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes, and another term to look up is theodicy.

[–]TheistParivill501 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some Philosophy of Religion answers to the problem of Theodicy:

1) It is logically or metaphysically impossible that one might enjoy some goods to the extent that we enjoy them without suffering from the evil that accompanies them to the extent that we suffer from that evil. Thus "rain makes the flowers grow" or "the rain makes the sun more worthwhile."

2) Free Will requires that suffering is extant. Without suffering there is no truly free will since we would be limited by our inability to suffer or to cause suffering of others. This begs the question if God is morally culpable for the suffering of It's creations. In response we can say that God has the capability to infinitely compensate an individual's suffering either materially or immortally. Secondly we must question if the individual can make a choice to participate in the system which allows suffering and this is debatable within the Christian tradition but not totally impossible. Regardless in this example God is like a parent to be, incapable of asking their children in advance if they wish to be born even knowing that there will likely be suffering in their future. We don't generally regard having children with this in mind to an immoral act therefore I'd argue that God is absolved of moral responsibility for the second consideration. Thus overall god is morally justified in engaging in a system with suffering.

3) From Open Theism; God doesn't engage in a tyrannical role in human affairs but instead is reactive to and dependant on Human choice. Again this relates to Free Will. God Ultimate goal is towards the redemption of sinful man but the means by which God achieves this goal are fluid and ever adapting to the actions and reactions of humans, which at times include their suffering either by conscious choice or by natural phenomenon. Were God to step in and "correct" each individual suffering God wouldn't develop further and It's own plans would be thwarted, thus negating what is otherwise a metaphysical certainty.

Obviously the problem of Theodicy has been one that mankind has struggled with since the beginning of our sapience but I find these three answers interesting and compelling enough to accept them while retaining the image of an omnipotent God.

[–]Roman CatholicPlasmaBurnz 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yeah. The problem of evil is asking if we should worship God. Was creating an act of love or was it a means to create evil? Evil is the byproduct, creation is good.

[–]Darth_Thatcher 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

What about evil within creation itself? Eg: Children contracting cancer, the fact that you could die from a sudden brain aneurysm at any moment, some of the uglier aspects of nature, etc.

[–]Roman CatholicPlasmaBurnz [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

What about it? Does the existence of wood shavings mean that chairs shouldn't be made and that carpenters don't exist? C'mon Patrick.

[–]lamrar [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Do you think that brain cancer in children is somehow necessary for the existence of the rest of creation? If so, why?

[–]Christian (Cross)Manlyburger [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Yes, being able to die at any moment is a part of nature. We don't have immortal life here.

[–]lamrar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But I am talking specifically about brain cancer in children. Can we imagine a world without it, and would that world be better or worse than this one?

[–]Buddhistdeathnate4 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If you think this has any relevance to the question, you're wrong. I don't even know how you arrived at this as an analogy.

[–]Roman CatholicDrifter1000 3ポイント4ポイント  (10子コメント)

Those are the wages of sin. And we are all paid in advance thanks to the sin of Adam.

[–]mattjmjmjm 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

Sin of Adam? Are you saying the genesis story is true?

[–]Roman CatholicDrifter1000 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

Yes. Genesis is true.

[–]mattjmjmjm 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

So your a creationist? I am gearing towards Christianity but I think evolution theory has more evidence then the creation theory. I believe in most of the bible but genesis... no.

[–]Roman CatholicDrifter1000 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (5子コメント)

I don't really like labels but yes, I am a creationist. I still believe in the big bang, evolution, and climate change though. I don't think that it contradicts any part of the Bible.

Human evolution is when I start to get a bit skeptical about things. All other forms of life, plants and animals, I accept.

[–]mattjmjmjm -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Thanking you for clearing that up I'm glad your educated and you believe in the big bang,evolution in plants and animals and climate change. But to say genesis is true is a stretch as what evidence proves genesis is true?

[–]Roman CatholicDrifter1000 -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Genesis as in creation or the whole book? Some parts seem more historically plausible than others.

I believe everything in the Bible is true, but not everything should be taken literally. Such as the table of nations. We know that they are not the names of individual sons, but instead are nations of men represented as people. Or that the world was created in 6 days. How long is a day to God who lives beyond our understanding of time? Just some simple rationalizing.

It's on a topic by topic basis when it comes to that book.

[–]mattjmjmjm 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Thank you for your wisdom. At the moment I am reading the bible I haven't read the whole thing But I know decent amount about many stories in the bible. Is there parts of bible I should skip or I should read the whole thing as It is a very big book. I am making my journey to becoming a Christian.

[–]Roman CatholicDrifter1000 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you. But I still have a lot to learn.

Many people do reading plans for the Bible. Mostly starting with the Gospels, then Acts. But if you are reading the Bible from cover to cover like I did, all I have to say is beware the second half of Exodus, Numbers, Levictus and Deuteronomy, and Chronicles. They tend to be slow reads that may bore a reader to a halt.

[–]Christian (Cross)VetstoChrist -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I believe in a literal 6 day creation but that because God has the ability to work in butterfly effects that it is not outside the Hebrew that the amount of time after Genesis 2:3 could have been several billion years. God in a sense created the universe in 6 days but within space time it took billions of years to see the completion of that work. Think about cleaning a pool. It might only take me 5 minutes to insert the chemicals into the pool, but time is needed for the chemicals to take affect. Another example of this is the maturing of a baby in the womb. The child is created into a single cell when the mother and father have sex but it takes 9 months for the baby develop enough (give or take) to be born. I even believe in human evolution. Just like a baby in the womb it might have taken development of the human animal a certain amount of time in order to be prepared for Adam's soul (the true likeness of God).

[–]TheistParivill501 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Genesis doesn't have to be historically literal to be true. There's truth in a mytho-poetic sense which is just as valid

[–]particular_baptist 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

innocent children and adults

No such thing.

Jer 17:19 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Ps 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Rom 3:10 as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

[–]Christian Deistbunker_man -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hmm... no.

[–]DeiVerbum 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's a well thought out rebuttal!

[–]Christian (Cross)VetstoChrist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll be honest with you. Reddit might not be the best place to get these answers. I would recommend the following books. They will tell you everything you need to know.

The Bible (I like the ESV or the NIV for ease of reading) - start with the Matthew Mark Luke and John and then move into the Epistles. Then Read Genesis. It will make more sense then ;)

Suffering and the Sovereignty of God (John Piper)

That should be a good start.

Edit: Typo

[–]Church of the NazareneHessmix 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNtz5wgnopQ

[–]hesterbest -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Wikipedia can probably enlighten the topic as well.

If you want to get a non-religious view on this topic then I can recommend a book by the atheist Richard Dawkins (probably not too popular in /r/christianity) which is called The God Delusion. This book is worth a read, Christian or not.

[–]Southern BaptistWG55 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

probably not too popular in /r/christianity

That's an understatement!

[–]Eastern Orthodoxtyrroi -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It really isn't, its laughable, God knows how Dick Dorkins is taken seriously.

[–]secondbiggest -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

with 0 evidence of a God, I would go with no.