全 169 件のコメント

[–]HealthcareEconomist3Krugman Triggers Me 17ポイント18ポイント  (58子コメント)

You are visited by an alien race who demand you must kill an entire occupational classification otherwise they will destroy the planet. Which one do you choose and why?

[–]haalidoodiOn second thought, let's not go to r/econ. It is a silly place. 26ポイント27ポイント  (9子コメント)

Just let them destroy the planet. The stimulative effect from having to rebuild literally everything should just about fix our economy forever.

EDIT: I ran the calculations through our system. Assuming that it took about 2 billion years for the Earth to fully form, approximately 3.5 billion years for humans to evolve and a further, say, 40,000 to create modern civilization, I estimate that we can guarantee full employment for about 5.50004 billion years. Now that's efficiency!

[–]commentsrusBring maymayday back! 16ポイント17ポイント  (4子コメント)

[–]wumbotarianI want to be the Walrasian Auctioneer when I grow up[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is perfect.

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am legitimately impressed.

[–]basilect40% of economics is dental hygiene 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

☐ not praxd

☑ praxd

[–]haalidoodiOn second thought, let's not go to r/econ. It is a silly place. 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

☑ Praxasaurus Rex

☑PraxBox 360

☑Harry Potter: The Half-Praxed Prince

☑ Rock Paper Prax

☑ Cash4Prax.com

☑ 12 Years a Prax

☑ The Usual SusPrax

☑ Prax Fiction

☑ The Good, The Bad and the Prax'd

☑ Prax to the Future

[–]aquaknoxfilthy libertarian stemlord 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah the not-so-uncommon-as-you-might-think left-of-center prax!

[–]UltSomnia 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Obviously healthcare economists.

[–]Fallline048 8ポイント9ポイント  (14子コメント)

53-6031 Gas Pump Attendants. Specifically in full-service states. I can pump my own gas and don't need my time wasted while you try to fill 3 cars at once and yell at me when I try to exit my vehicle, then expect a tip for the inconvenience.

[–]commentsrusBring maymayday back! 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

You'll set yourself on fire, kid.

[–]haalidoodiOn second thought, let's not go to r/econ. It is a silly place. 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

I've spent most of my life in Michigan. Is this still a think in some places? I can't say I've ever seen gas pump attendants outside of 40's noir films and possibly some Keaton comedies.

[–]wyman856People are horses 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

As far as I know, New Jersey and Oregon are the only two states in the U.S. that continue full-service, mainly because their attendants unionized and successfully lobbied for making/keeping self service illegal back in the day.

[–]commentsrusBring maymayday back! 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Idk about NJ but in Oregon one of the arguments is that you'll set yourself on fire. Idk if they're serious about that one anymore since we now have 48 states and DC where that doesn't happen... but it used to be so.

[–]xorchidsExpert at economics I know what bitcoins are 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I know it is in NJ. Like /u/fallline048 said you can't leave your car, and they usually wait like a dumbfounded idiot waiting for you to tip them.

I don't mind. Service is speedy and dirt cheap compared to my home state.

NJ is a really weird state. You can get a ticket for friggen breathing. Lots of weird laws.

[–]geerussell 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I remember seeing them in Michigan in the 70s, with many (most?) stations having a choice between self and full service.

[–]lorentz65DEMAND FOR THE DEMAND GOD! 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

This does disadvantage old people, like my grandmother, who can't pump their own gas.

[–]Fallline048 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

An excellent point. My gripe is really that I'm forced to use their services rather than being given the opportunity to pump my own if I'm in a hurry or don't have any small bills to tip with.

[–]lorentz65DEMAND FOR THE DEMAND GOD! 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I get you. I thought of my point specifically because in the town where my grandmother lives, there was only one full service gas station. It had to close because it wasn't in profit. When this happened, all the old people in town threw a big stink about its closing and now it stays open with money from the county.

[–]Fallline048 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's super interesting. There's definitely more utility to them then I had ascribed, but I'm sure there's a more efficient solution. Off the top of my head, maybe post a big old sign on the pump reading "In need of assistance? Call 1-800-thisgasstation and an attendant will be right with you!"

I suppose this assumes cell phone ownership. Maybe some sort of intercom system by which an employee could be notified whenever someone pulls up to a pump and ask whether they need assistance à la fast food drive thru?

[–]VodkaHazeFuturometrician, Horse Expert 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm in confusion at what disability can leave you unable to pump gas into a car, but able to drive said car

[–]lorentz65DEMAND FOR THE DEMAND GOD! 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's just a herculean task and would take forever for her. She'd probably go to get gas less often and wouldn't get out as much.

[–]aquaknoxfilthy libertarian stemlord 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

While that sucks for your grandma, I've got to think the group of people who are unable to pump their own gas and also should be driving is probably pretty low.

[–]___OccamsChainsaw___Garrett 4 Fed Gov. 7ポイント8ポイント  (5子コメント)

Does 'unemployed' count? Because you know, we haven't actually tried 'kill all the poor'.

[–]MildlyEoghanDon't Prax Me, Bro! 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

Have you tried raise VAT and kill the poor?

[–]JustDoItPeopleBaby, I want my markets to span you. 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Listen, we're not going to do it just because the computer tells us to do it! It's just to see.

[–]basilect40% of economics is dental hygiene 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is this the Golden Dawn economic recovery platform?

[–]haalidoodiOn second thought, let's not go to r/econ. It is a silly place. 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

[–]aquaknoxfilthy libertarian stemlord 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Perhaps a pilot program in Yeovil?

[–]Meta-Cognition"Neoclassical Bernankean shill" 6ポイント7ポイント  (12子コメント)

Modern artists.

Fuck off. Friedrich's Wanderer Above the Sea of Fog and Raphael's School of Athens are all you need.

EDIT: I'd also get rid of the people like Euripides, who bastardised tragedy with their fucking Socratic rationalism. But unless they're time-travelling aliens. . .

[–]Babahoyo 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

fucking neoclassicist.

[–]Meta-Cognition"Neoclassical Bernankean shill" 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

It all went downhill with Van Gogh and his shitty impressionism.

[–]lorentz65DEMAND FOR THE DEMAND GOD! 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

[–]Meta-Cognition"Neoclassical Bernankean shill" 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Jesus, that's awful.

[–]lorentz65DEMAND FOR THE DEMAND GOD! 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I took a 20th century Russian lit class and we talked about the art. I appreciate him much more after that.

[–]___OccamsChainsaw___Garrett 4 Fed Gov. 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You take that back, you dirty dirty scoundrel bandit.

[–]NewmanTheScofflawDingo ate my textbook 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

[–]Meta-Cognition"Neoclassical Bernankean shill" 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

Dali's The Persistence of Memory is indeed an exception. I was thinking more of abstract art than modern art, per se. Dali's surrealism actually represents something.

A rock in a fucking museum doesn't.

[–]NewmanTheScofflawDingo ate my textbook 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Amen

[–]NewmanTheScofflawDingo ate my textbook 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

The National Gallery of Canada paid $1.8 million for a Barnett Newman painting that was literally two blue stripes and a red stripe in the middle. $1.8 million because he lived in New York and is dead.

[–]aquaknoxfilthy libertarian stemlord 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Speaking of which, I have a geniune Barnett Newman that I'm looking to sell for only 1.7 million dollars.

[–]JustDoItPeopleBaby, I want my markets to span you. 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Horses.

[–]alexhoyerhoard plywood now for our ANCAP overlords 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Art critics. Fuck them, if it's so easy they should do it.

[–]haalidoodiOn second thought, let's not go to r/econ. It is a silly place. 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

I went with a friend to the DIA recently and they were loudly complaining about the quality of some colonial-era furniture on display in the American art section. Do they count?

[–]aquaknoxfilthy libertarian stemlord 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't think we need to kill all art critics in the whole world to know what to do with your friend.

[–]haalidoodiOn second thought, let's not go to r/econ. It is a silly place. 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In their defense, the table was absolutely hideous. The top wasn't even flat, but was shaped slightly convex. I'd call it modern art if it hadn't been made in 17th century Massachusetts.

I've been digging through the museum catalog to find it, and it's not even in there. I suppose even the DIA is ashamed to have it.

[–]deathpigeonxPart of the 1% (who have actually read Piketty) 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

People who's job is to kill an entire occupational classification.

[–]k4rter 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

car dealers, let Tesla sell those cars directly.

[–]irondeepbicycleI got 99 problems but technological unemployment ain't one 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bail bondsmen? Maybe it forces changes to our bail system?

[–]NewmanTheScofflawDingo ate my textbook 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

"TV personality"

[–]xorchidsExpert at economics I know what bitcoins are 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is a hard one...so many I would love to destroy.

I'd have to settle with debt collectors. Man, they can be real nasty people. To completely reasonable people.

They also don't like people playing their game. One time, years ago a friend of mine who is very sweet was chased by a debt collector. In tears and everything. I'm not about people swearing and screaming, it sets me into over drive. So I got the collector to reveal some information, managed to find her on FB and the whitepages. I wasn't even sure it was here until I told my friend to casually say the street name I thought she lived on, until her voice changed and knew I had gotten her lol. She eventually hung up when I screaming in the background said name of her mother and father ARE HOME!!

[–]bdubs91 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Lawyers. We suffer prisoner dilemma like situations with race to the bottom with everyone buying lawyers.

Also the worst person I know is pre-lawyer. Screw that arrogant prick.

Edit: I cannot believe no one else picked this.

[–]aquaknoxfilthy libertarian stemlord 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Isn't there some utility in having people around who actually know what the law says though?

[–]commentsrusBring maymayday back! 12ポイント13ポイント  (8子コメント)

Prediction: 120 comments in 6 2 hours

Edit: WE DID IT REDDIT

[–]lorentz65DEMAND FOR THE DEMAND GOD! 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Silly eCONomist thinks he can predict HUMAN ACTION.

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

We've hit 80 comments in one hour.

We're going to hit a comment singularity soon.

[–]say_wot_againI guess I mod /r/goodeconomics now? 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

This is Bernanke's financial acceleration theory at work! Expectation of comments leads people to try to comment more quickly, which raises expectations about comments. We're literally Weimar Germany, and wumbo is a skilled orator who couldn't get into art school.

[–]commentsrusBring maymayday back! 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

But isn't wumbo the one causing this hyperinflation by printing discussion threads?

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

I should make the incoming first-years write down a model of reddit comments at math camp.

Assume people get utility from sub-comments (discussion!) and upvotes (internet points!). Upvotes are almost costless to give, but people don't like scrolling through long comment chains. Find the equilibrium. (It probably explodes -- see any big askreddit thread.)

[–]say_wot_againI guess I mod /r/goodeconomics now? 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why were you not my professor?

[–]commentsrusBring maymayday back! 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

math camp

Crossing my fingers that you're the one giving math camp at my school this August.

[–]commentsrusBring maymayday back! 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's because /r/badeconomics currently has a monopoly on econ discussion threads due to first mover advantage. But I'll have /r/econpapers enter the market and try to ease this congestion. I prefer the Cournot duopoly model for this case btw ;)

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 9ポイント10ポイント  (34子コメント)

We've done taxes and subsidies, what about expenditures?

  • An expenditure category or program that should receive more funding.
  • An expenditure category or program that should receive less funding.
  • An expenditure category or program that is receiving about the right amount of funding.
  • A new expenditure category or program.
  • An expenditure category or program that should be eliminated.

I'm using "expenditure category or program" to be as broad as possible. "NASA" counts. "Defense" counts, as do subsets like "CIA" or "the F-35" or "$3,000 screwdrivers." "Health spending" counts, as do subsets of health like "Medicare" or "Medicare Part D" or "Medicare prescription drugs."

You may not answer "waste, fraud, and abuse," because that's lame.

[–]commentsrusBring maymayday back! 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

An expenditure category or program that should be eliminated.

The government. QED.

[–]HealthcareEconomist3Krugman Triggers Me 8ポイント9ポイント  (17子コメント)

An expenditure category or program that should receive more funding.

ACF, particularly Head Start.

An expenditure category or program that should receive less funding.

Everything that's related to retirees, particularly healthcare. Its disappointing that so little of the inequality rhetoric focuses on the insanely regressive public retirement system.

An expenditure category or program that is receiving about the right amount of funding.

Other then congress constantly stealing funds from FAA's NextGen air transport in general receives the right amount of funding.

A new expenditure category or program.

NIT.

An expenditure category or program that should be eliminated.

NASA. Redirect all the funding to the NSF.

No funding for manned spaceflight out of earth orbit, extremely limited funding for manned spaceflight in earth orbit.

[–]prillin101 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

Why no love for NASA :(

[–]HealthcareEconomist3Krugman Triggers Me 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

NASA is great at doing things decades before its economically reasonable to do them, also at wasting money on pointless flights of fancy (SETI, Green Man etc). They are also great at designing massive bureaucracies that prevent them from doing anything efficiently, the return to the moon plan which was posited a few years ago estimated the cost to design & build a new human rated heavy lift vehicle by 2025 that would have cost more then four times what was available in 2012; given they always massively underestimate the cost of their human spaceflight programs who knows how much it would have really cost.

Redirecting all of their funding to a grants based system like that which NSF uses would allow for massively increased funding for basic research and would prevent pointless monstrosities like ISS and manned flights to other planets from occurring. Science funding is fantastic, we can do it enormously better then we do it. Last FY NASA spent ~$9b (about half of their budget) on their human spaceflight activities, imagine what amazing science we could be producing if that was spent on something useful.

[–]prillin101 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's true, manned space flights are pretty pointless. What about things like Voyager though? Do you think they're worth it?

[–]HealthcareEconomist3Krugman Triggers Me 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yes. No issue with probes or robotic exploration.

The process for developing such a mission should be;

  • A bunch of scientists decide its a good idea.
  • They partner with a private firm.
  • They submit a proposal to our new NSF overlords.
  • Our NSF overlords consider it against other similar proposals received in the same year.
  • If its considered high enough priority and there exists sufficient funding for it in its category then give them money.

This is the same system we use for all non-vaccine health research spending, it ensures that with the budget we have available we maximize our science output. Using a fixed budget system ensures sufficient work is undertaken to scope and cost projects before they receive funding.

[–]aquaknoxfilthy libertarian stemlord 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Alternative model:

  • Elon Musk decides something's a good idea

  • Elon Musk does it because he's Elon Musk

  • Richard Branson also does it

[–]prillin101 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's a good system, but media would just cream and shout that your privatizing space research.

Outside the political window, but a way better idea than NASA!

[–]aquaknoxfilthy libertarian stemlord 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

NASA is super fucking cool. It is the coolest department of the government, edging out the Air Force and the CIA. It is also very inefficient at turning government expenditure into real improvements in people's lives.

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Next thread we should come together to write a tier list of government agencies.

[–]lorentz65DEMAND FOR THE DEMAND GOD! 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why NASA? Their current big project is the JWST which is productive in terms of scientific research. It's not like their sole purpose should be manned spaceflight.

[–]HealthcareEconomist3Krugman Triggers Me 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

JWST

The $1.6b project which will likely cost around $8b. A great example of where a grant system would be useful.

It's not like their sole purpose should be manned spaceflight.

They spend about half of their budget on manned spaceflight; ISS (~$4b), planning/development of new human flight and r&d for general flight activities (such as the recent project that paid people to lay in bed for a couple of months).

[–]lorentz65DEMAND FOR THE DEMAND GOD! 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

How would the grant system have worked differently? Who would've done the project in absence of NASA and the ESA?

[–]gorbachev 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Come on, Head Start? Why!?! The literature on it has to brutally torture the data to find any effect.

[–]HealthcareEconomist3Krugman Triggers Me 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

The health data is actually extremely positive, it entirely closes the childhood mortality gap. On education there is a statistically significant improvement in outcomes, increased funding would allow for increasing the scope to include things we know work well like CBD.

[–]say_wot_againI guess I mod /r/goodeconomics now? 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're just a dirty statist.

[–]commentsrusBring maymayday back! 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Statist-ICKs!! HISSSSSSSSSSSS

[–]gorbachev 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know the health data was positive, but you're probably not going to replicate those results today. IIRC a lot of those reductions came from reductions in infectious disease rates, a lot of them due to HS including vaccination in a time when vax rates were lower. Even the residual benefits from nutrition or whatever can probably be attained from a lower cost more direct intervention.

And those ed outcome improvements all fade out in studies with credible ID. Granted, some (in my opinion, tortured) studies see them fade back in when looking at later adult outcomes. But I'd love to hear a coherent explanation of how we go from fade out to fade back in 20 years later.

HS is easily the most over rated program and there is definitely an insurgency of public people that want to know why Heckman is sticking with it. I mean, I get that in a certain sense, fade out is a complaint about the rest of the ed system and not HS itself. A study on a comprehensive ed policy experiment that runs k-12 would be super interesting. Can you lock in the HS gain and prevent fade out? That would be interesting. But just doubling down on head start because it has broad public support -- all to see the gains fade out by 5th grade -- seems pointless to me. Better to fund reforms to the k-12 system itself.

[–]Meta-Cognition"Neoclassical Bernankean shill" 2ポイント3ポイント  (12子コメント)

More funding: R&D. (I'm not sure about the budget for the likes of the NSA, but from what I hear there's quite a significant technological lag in the intelligence services at the moment, so I wouldn't mind increased funding their either to be honest. . . Will Wumbo kill me for that, being a libertarian and all?).

Less funding: The prison system.

Right amount of funding: Defence (although you could allocate the existing budget a bit better).

New expenditure: NGDP futures market ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Eliminated: Social security.

Of course, all of these come with caveats of complimentary policies.

[–]Babahoyo 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

funding prisons less will probably just make prison conditions worse, rather than make our country sentence fewer people for shorter sentences like we should.

[–]Meta-Cognition"Neoclassical Bernankean shill" 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

I'd rather see drugs legalised/regulated and more effort placed into rehabilitation before we begin to cut prison funding. Prisons really ought to be holding pens for the ~50pc of violent criminals who can't be rehabilitated.

And maybe as a deterrent/punishment for shit like white collar crime, because I have no idea how you'd even begin to rehabilitate those people.

[–]Babahoyo 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'd rather see we properly fund our public defense system, our mental health system, and use funds that go into over-militant policing to go to community outreach and reentry programs. Then I'd like to see sentencing guidelines overhauled entirely so programs like parole can actually be used as an alternative punishment instead of an extra year or two on a really long sentence. In fact, i'd like to cut all prison sentences down by at least half, considering the fact that people age out of crimes and that we are way past the point of where marginal costs intersect with marginal benefits. I'd also ban the death penalty and solitary confinement.

[–]Meta-Cognition"Neoclassical Bernankean shill" 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

In fact, i'd like to cut all prison sentences down by at least half

Oh, I could definitely get behind that. I'd rather follow Norway's example and set the maximum limit at 21 years, subject to potential extension. Even the most psychopathic violent criminals "age out of crime", as you say.

I'd also ban the death penalty and solitary confinement.

I'm with you on solitary, not so sure about the death penalty. I tend to think it's an appropriate punishment for terrorists.

[–]Babahoyo 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

turning them into martyrs?

Even beyond that, I just don't like it.

[–]Meta-Cognition"Neoclassical Bernankean shill" 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

turning them into martyrs?

I really don't buy that argument. You can't not make martyrs for these people; al-Qaeda never forgave the West for not allowing Indonesia to commit a genocide in East Timor. If you can't get that past them, you can't address their grievances with anything short of capitulation to their toxic theo-cultural-moral vision.

I'm still waiting for the thousands of bin Ladens that were supposed to pop up too, once we'd killed the original.

[–]MrTossPotMore of a sellout than Mankiw 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fuck it, it made Australia feel relevant for once. We needed a good win. Worth it.

[–]thatdamnedsalarianDisciple 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Eliminated: social security

:(

What would you replace/compensate it with?

[–]Meta-Cognition"Neoclassical Bernankean shill" 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Private retirement accounts, with subsidies for low-income individuals.

[–]MildlyEoghanDon't Prax Me, Bro! 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

No social security and a defunded prison system; that would be hilariously tragic to watch.

[–]Meta-Cognition"Neoclassical Bernankean shill" 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

No social security and a defunded prison system

Ahem:

Of course, all of these come with caveats

I don't want to implement any of those things immediately. Although it would be mildly interesting to watch.

[–]MildlyEoghanDon't Prax Me, Bro! 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Although it would be mildly interesting to watch.

Reality television would be much more entertaining.

[–]MildlyEoghanDon't Prax Me, Bro! 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

  1. Third level education
  2. Unemployment activation programs (excluding education)
  3. No idea, probably a lot of them
  4. Social welfare reform and monitoring program
  5. Child benefit, in its current form, various pension entitlements

[–]gorbachev 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

More funding: Everything related to the environment. Beef up the EPA and its legal team, stretch its mandate to the limit, pour more into renewables subsidies, climate change abatement RnD, etc. Our current policies are set as if climate change externalities are tiny -- they're not. Bonus answer: the patent office.

Less: Funding for immigration enforcement. If we can't get the people to vote to open the door, we might as well leave it unlocked.

Right amount: Perhaps the park service?

New category: This is somewhat self-serving, but an office dedicated to conducting evaluations of government programs (or at least funding them) and introducing evidence-based changes to those programs. There's no reason we should have completely static policies when we could be constantly updating policy parameters using the latest research.

Total cut: This is practically cheating, but ag subsidies.

[–]commandough 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Are agricultural subsides bad economics?

They prop up less efficient producers, but farming efficiency depends on factors outside of human control, such as climate. Wouldn't it be worth keeping some farming industry in as many regions as possible to prevent famine?

[–]say_wot_againI guess I mod /r/goodeconomics now? 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

How could any agriculturally productive reason possibly lose its productivity? And does anyone want an almond?

On a serious note, farming doesn't seem like it takes massive capital investments or have massive startup times, and it seems unlikely that current farmland would be converted to residential areas too quickly. So I don't totally see why prices couldn't work. But maybe one of those two premises is wrong.

[–]irondeepbicycleI got 99 problems but technological unemployment ain't one 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think most economists would advocate eliminating them. In my experience, most of the arguments for keeping less efficient farms around rely on borderline conspiratorial notions of what happens if other countries suddenly stop exporting food to us.

It's becoming a bigger issue in the West, since we're not as blessed with water as our coastal and midwestern buddies, and most of our water is being used by farmers. If a few farms went out of business, it could really help stop potential water shortages.

[–]k4rter 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

[–]deathpigeonxPart of the 1% (who have actually read Piketty) 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

I leave Krugman at the foot of the mountain. One always finds one's burden again. But Krugman teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night-filled mountain, in itself, forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Krugman happy.

[–]iamelbenMalthusian Enthusiast 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

CAMUS? FUCKING CAMUS?

Jesus Christ, I love this sub.

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

We have a surprisingly diverse bank of literary references.

[–]lorentz65DEMAND FOR THE DEMAND GOD! -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ok Nietzsche.

[–]iamelbenMalthusian Enthusiast 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Camus, brah. Open yourself to the gentle indifference of the universe and embrace the absurd.

[–]lorentz65DEMAND FOR THE DEMAND GOD! 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

All the rocks and heights talk reminded me of mountains and hence Nietzsche, now I remember in the passage Krugman=Sisyphus.

[–]wyman856People are horses 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

I found this piece via Tyler Cowen on the relationship between Milton Friedman and Paul Samuelson, "The Rivals."

It has a great deal of meta-economics history and is a really well-done piece overall.

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

I read that too quickly, as "I found this place via Tyler Cowen," and thought we'd hit the big leagues with a link from MR.

[–]wyman856People are horses 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

If only. Maybe if we started collecting our best economics-related food recipes he will be forced to take notice and visit.

[–]usrname42There is no God but Keynes, and Krugman is his prophet 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

[–]SoyElGoddamnBatmanI don't really know anything, honestly 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

What do you guys think are the best subs for learning about other topics? BE is my spot, but sometimes I want to learn about other stuff too.

[–]alexhoyerhoard plywood now for our ANCAP overlords 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/asksocialscience is good if you're looking for a broader purview.

[–]commentsrusBring maymayday back! 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

/r/praxacceptance to learn how to prax and make dank memes.

/r/learnmath if you're a Keynesian.

[–]say_wot_againI guess I mod /r/goodeconomics now? 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dammit he was asking for real help.

[–]irondeepbicycleI got 99 problems but technological unemployment ain't one 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I lurk /r/badhistory a lot. Really terrific stuff there.

[–]wumbotarianI want to be the Walrasian Auctioneer when I grow up[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Someone reported a comment of mine because I broke Rule III.

I kek'd

[–]JPelter 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Lol.

That was me.

I couldn't resist.

[–]wumbotarianI want to be the Walrasian Auctioneer when I grow up[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're the best, A+.

[–]basilect40% of economics is dental hygiene 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

[–]Babahoyo 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

[http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/14/what-economics-can-and-cant-do/?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region](What Economics Can -and Can’t- Do)

This article is pretty interesting, it'll probably end up on this sub some point in the next few hours. I would do an R1 but idk what i would say. Overall I think its a good piece, but would obviously have liked them interview an economist instead of a philosopher of economics.

[–]HealthcareEconomist3Krugman Triggers Me 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

Let me help you with that R1:

His description of prescription is very good indeed, ill probably be stealing it.

Standard economic theory provides useful tools, but it focuses on a very limited range of causal factors — mainly the choices of millions of consumers, investors and firms — which it simplifies and assumes to be governed entirely by self-interested pursuit of goods or financial gain.

TIL only broad macro exists. Economics is useful in any situation you have people interacting with other people, it encompasses all aspects of behavior and decisions. The political issues that have prevented Greece from reforming before the crisis hit is a textbook example of public choice theory.

Also any behavioral economist would strongly object to the idea we can only consider behavior on a rational basis.

In John Stuart Mill’s view, which I believe is basically correct, economics is a separate and inexact science. It is separate from the other social sciences, because it focuses on only a small number of the causal factors that influence social phenomena. It is inexact because the phenomena with which it deals are influenced by many other causes than the few it focuses on.

I'm not sure the views of an economist that practiced before economics existed as a seperate discipline and predated the introduction of math to the field by nearly a century is particularly useful to consider in a discussion of the philosophy of science and how it applies to econ.

For a much simpler illustration than the case of Greece, consider current debates about whether to raise the minimum wage. This is not just an economic question, because the minimum wage may have all sorts of effects. (It might, for example, shore up families and improve the lives of children.) One might believe, naïvely, that the economic effect would be simply to raise the wages of those who are currently earning the minimum wages.

These are all economic effects that we can study and understand. The rest of the interview continues like this, his entire basis of argument seems to be that simplistic models (in the case of MW SD) form the basis of modern economic understanding and we are incapable of dealing with complex systems.

[–]Babahoyo 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

we should really repost this as its own post. Move content away from the discussion threads and on to the rest of the front page etc.

[–]MildlyEoghanDon't Prax Me, Bro! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ben Fine on modern economics: https://youtu.be/dbawrxfmqhg

[–]MildlyEoghanDon't Prax Me, Bro! 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think philosophers and heterodox/political economists feel unhappy with the monopoly on the mainstream that "mainstream" economics has had ever since the marginalist revolution.

[–]Babahoyo 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Should they feel unhappy?

[–]MildlyEoghanDon't Prax Me, Bro! 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Dunno, they're still around so clearly there's something in it for them.

[–]xorchidsExpert at economics I know what bitcoins are 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

If I ever get a PhD, I'm going to pretend to be a mainstream economist. My only interests if I do that are really academia, so I would keep it up until I got tenure.

Then I'd do a 180 and do whatever I want. Publish ridiculous heterodox papers on technology, feminism, etc. I'm not interested in money, as long as I have enough to pay my bills. So I really don't care to get famous in academia or make any kind of name for myself. It's just where my interests are.

[–]bdubs91 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can I ask how much Econ you've learned? I had similar feelings myself until I understood math and advanced economics better.

Much of my objections were due to feeling unfulfilled by simplistic econ 101 models and causal mechanisms.

[–]ivansmlhotshot with a theory 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is a surprisingly good article. Yes, economics often cannot offer definitive conclusions, but providing informed arguments about pros/cons of various policies is still valuable in itself.

[–]Babahoyo 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I like the idea of economics as serving to force people to ask the right normative questions, which the philosopher articulates nicely.

[–]bigkr88 2ポイント3ポイント  (12子コメント)

Everyone, I propose a game. Fix the Greek crisis/elongated death spiral in one sentence. Most upvotes wins a cookie.

[–]BUTWHYNOTZOIDBERGTranscedential Virgo Trotskyist 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

Rename country to Greeece.

[–]say_wot_againI guess I mod /r/goodeconomics now? 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What an E-sy solution!

[–]devinejohSecretary of the Bitcoin Treasury 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Credit bill gets lost in the mail

[–]commentsrusBring maymayday back! 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Prax it out.

Alternative: Gold standard + fascism.

[–]iamelbenMalthusian Enthusiast 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

1.) Break all windows in the country.

2.) Enjoy economic recovery fueled by exploding glassfitting sector.

3.) Repeat as needed.

[–]___OccamsChainsaw___Garrett 4 Fed Gov. 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

1.) Break all windows in the country.

I mean... with all the neo-fascists in Greece this isn't really something you want to have happen.

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

They should switch to Bitcoin. Problem solved.

[–]ivansmlhotshot with a theory 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hunger Austerity Games.

Proposal details: each year, every EU member state sends a pair of tributes to compete in a deadly tournament. Proceeds from worldwide TV rights and merchandise sales go towards repayment of outstanding government debt. Distribution of repayment across members is determined by a rotating system of convex combinations of population weights, /r/europe upvotes and percentage of German speakers in native population (CEFR level C1 or higher). Winning country gets the right to organize the Games next year and fiscal stimulus in the form of Cohesion Fund subsidy for constructing new Arena. Losing countries get an order to pass additional round of emergency austerity legislation. In case of a draw, winner is determined by an improptu Eurovision contest. In case of noncompliance and/or rebellion, offending country is punished by freeze of ECB liquidity and a stern memorandum ascertaining loss of trust vis-a-vis its government.

[–]MildlyEoghanDon't Prax Me, Bro! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We already have the Eurovision Song Contest

[–]Petros557there is no such thing as a market failure 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

as a greek:

"χαχα"

[–]geerussell 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mix democracy and drachma; shake to chill; pour over olives and beaches; enjoy.

[–]deathpigeonxPart of the 1% (who have actually read Piketty) -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Playing a little game of global thermonuclear war. That would get our minds off of Greece.

[–]prillin101 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

Why haven't wages kept up with productivity? I'm not one to blame greed or rich people taking the money and running, but I do have that one question.

Why haven't they kept up with it? I've also read that people are now only receiving 1/5 the wages they did pre-recession, why is that?

Thanks for any answers.

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

There is far less decoupling when you use compensation instead of wages and adjust both productivity and compensation by the same price delator; see here, Figure 12.

I've also read that people are now only receiving 1/5 the wages they did pre-recession, why is that?

You think that the typical worker took an 80% pay cut in the past eight years? Why would you think that?

[–]iamelbenMalthusian Enthusiast 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

You think that the typical worker took an 80% pay cut in the past eight years? Why would you think that?

Because ThinkProgress, MSNBC, /r/poltiics, and Bernie Sanders.

No, but seriously, I thought this too before I took labor econ. Learning to not conflate compensation and wages was a big deal for me, and is still a little counter-intuitive because of semantic reasons.

[–]UltSomnia 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Isn't compensation just wages+ value of other benefits? Am I missing something?

[–]prillin101 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for the answer!

I coulda mixed it up, I think it said 1/5 Americans took a pay cut.

[–]prillin101 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wait, here: http://www.newsweek.com/new-jobs-after-recession-pay-23-less-263843

This one says 23%, more believable.

Was it because they took lower paying and lower education-requiring jobs? I thought underemployment was 5.8%, though.

[–]alexhoyerhoard plywood now for our ANCAP overlords 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Compensation is a more informative measure of worker income, as it measures all forms of labor costs. The myth of productivity and wage decoupling is overstated. Properly deflated, and accounting for income variety, compensation is growing in trend with productivity. One last note to consider is that while average productivity has grown, those gains aren't evenly realized. SBTC has led to rapid productivity gains in some sectors, while other (usually lower wage sectors) have had few productivity improvements, if any at all. Those distributional concerns affect how we have to look at the data on wage growth too, and how it relates to inequality.

[–]prillin101 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for the response :)

[–]Rekksu 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Isn't most compensation growth happening in health benefits? Is this more reason to believe that healthcare costs are really what's holding the middle class back?

[–]irwin08Milton Friedman predicted Bitcoin 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Can someone explain to me the deal with spending and saving. I am so confused on it. So reddit tends to tout the narrative that consumer spending is all that matters in the economy and that if people stop spending as much (ie. start saving) then the economy is negatively effected. However this seems sort of naive and sounds like theory out of the 30s. So then I heard that S=I and I thought oh ok, so savings is sort of a form of spending and therefore it doesn't have a negative effect on the economy. But Then Geerussel(I think) said that actually S!=I or something and now I am VERY confused. Am I mixing up the short run and long run? Does S!=I in the short run but in the long run it does? I'd appreciate it a lot if someone could explain this to me.

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

God damn it not this shit again.

Keynes:

Y = (a+Ibar+Gbar)/(1-MPC)

dY/dMPC > 0: more consumer spending increases "total spending" increases GDP.

Solow:

Y =  [(1-MPC)/(n+g+d)]^(a/(1-a))

dY/dMPC < 0: a higher MPC reduces the share of income going towards producing investment goods which reduces the capital stock which reduces GDP.

omg two models give two different answers why can't economists agree on anything?????

Keynes' model only works with fixed prices at the ZLB. Solow's works with flexible prices away from the ZLB.

[–]geerussell 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Keynes' model only works with fixed prices at the ZLB.

You can't put Keynes in a ZLB box. Seriously, you can't.

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's right there in the equations. I am not making this up!

Keynes:

C = a + bY
I = Ibar
G = Gbar
Y = C+I+G

Notice what's not there? Interest rates and the price level. Implicitly, r=0 and P is some constant. Both are in the background. If prices were flexible and interest rates were free to move, things would be different. In addition, the capital stock is fixed.

What does a more complete model look like?

C = a + bY
I = Ibar - dr   <- New! (downward-sloping investment demand)
G = Gbar
Y = C+I+G
r = kY       <- New! (monetary policy)

But wait! That's just IS-MP. In this model, an increase in the marginal propensity to save is met with a reduction in interest rates, and if the central bank responds aggressively enough, there is no decline in GDP. If the required reduction in interest rates would lead to the ZLB, the Keynesian Cross model is recovered.

The simple Keynesian Cross is absolutely, positively, undeniably a model of the economy at the zero bound. Indeed, set r=0 in the second model there and you recover the Keynesian Cross!

Keynes is a model of the ZLB. He probably didn't know that himself, but there's a lot about Keynes' model that Keynes did not understand. That's life.


Side note:

In Solow, the relevant equations are

Y=C+I
C = (1-s)Y
K' = I + (1-d)K
Y = F(K)
r = F'(K)

Interest rates, prices, and the capital stock are free to adjust.

[–]geerussell 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So reddit tends to tout the narrative that consumer spending is all that matters in the economy and that if people stop spending as much (ie. start saving) then the economy is negatively effected. However this seems sort of naive and sounds like theory out of the 30s.

It is theory out of the 30s but it's also theory that describes how a capitalist economy works and that hasn't changed. From a Keynesian perspective, where production is undertaken in anticipation of sales and the object of it is to make money. Decreased spending puts the brakes on this process.

So then I heard that S=I and I thought oh ok, so savings is sort of a form of spending and therefore it doesn't have a negative effect on the economy. But Then Geerussel(I think) said that actually S!=I or something and now I am VERY confused.

S=I but there's debate over what kind of adjustment happens to bring the two into equilibrium when desired S changes.

There's a view where an increase in desired S brings about an increase in I via supply/demand/interest rates in the loanable funds market.

There's a view where an increase in desired S brings about a decrease in I via income adjustments as spending decreases.

[–]thatdamnedsalarianDisciple 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Is collective bargaining via unions one of the better ways to achieve higher wage rates?

[–]iamelbenMalthusian Enthusiast 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd say improving your MPL with education is both more fulfilling and more effective in the long run.

[–]alexhoyerhoard plywood now for our ANCAP overlords 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's certainly one of the faster ways, but if by better you mean working toward the efficient allocation of resources, then probably not. Monopsony models of the labor market do argue some pareto improvements can be realized by collective bargaining, so long as they work toward and not past the w=mrpl condition. At the same time, I think people tend to underestimate the power of labor in the negotiation process (nominal rigidity being a manifestation of that power).

[–]commentsrusBring maymayday back! 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

My response to /u/Cutlasss' question on legalizing prostitution from a long time ago (internet time) is at /r/econpapers because it's too long for a comment here. Please be gent[le].

[–]NewmanTheScofflawDingo ate my textbook 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Am I the only one who thinks that Yanis Varoufakis is a bit of an ass. Just doing a survey.

[–]Petros557there is no such thing as a market failure 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

yanis*