67
68

Stop giving useless advice to people who are stuck in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran (self.exmuslim)

FemaleInfidel が 投稿

I've seen a good number of people giving useless advice to people from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran. Usually people from those countries are making such posts like "need to get away from parents" "need to get away from this culture" etc. And in turn people are posting stuff like "Go to Europe" "Go to a Western country" or they start arguing with people who know the ins and outs of moose culture. First of all, people who own Afghani, Pakistani and Iran passports cannot get a visa so easily. Hell, some of those people don't even have passports. Some of their families have even confiscated their ID cards. So you posting stuff like "Go to a Western country" is like saying "eat cake if you can't find bread". Secondly, as a non-moose you are not in a position to correct ex-mooses who know these situations better than you. If you are a non-moose please don't flood subs confronting ex-mooses telling them their solution is not right. Plus if anyone is asking for help in this sub, you arguing with an ex-moose about the possible advice is not helping those who are desperately stuck in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran. If you are suggesting that your advice is better than the advice of an ex-moose then share all the concrete details of your advice. Like let's say you know of a European or American based foundation which offers special scholarships to Pakistani students and stuff and you think that might be of help. Then share that. But don't post superficial advice like "you are wrong, she/he needs to go a western country." That's not going to help desperate people who are stuck.

全 61 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]umeedesehar 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Amen to that.

[–]oneofthegoodassholes 24ポイント25ポイント  (14子コメント)

Thank you, this is something I have noticed. As an ex-moose trapped in a Muslim country, I think most ex-moose who live in the free world do not really understand the condition of our lives. It is not easy to move to West, if anything it is literally impossible. While west is happily taking millions of Muslim refugees there is no space for a minority that genuinely lives their lives in fear. Also, claiming asylum is a huge risk, because there is every chance that it might get rejected and if that is the case then you are fucked.

I have to say that i am very disappointed in ex-Muslim organizations in the West. They have done an exceptionally poor job in lobbying for our rights in the Western political systems, other communities like the Jewish and Gay communities have instead used the political system to make things better for their kind, for example, gay organisations are making it a lot easier for gay people in homophobic countries to move to liberal and tolerant ones. I hate to say that but ex-Moose orgainsations have done fuck all and so have the atheist organizations about helping ex-Muslims.

[–]robotroller 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

In Europe, Islamist groups have been invited by the idiotic left into influential positions & give a platform to spread their toxic version of Islam. Nobody wants to deal with Islam, let alone ex-Muslims...or else you'll be called a "racist".

In America, EXMNA has barely formed. It's a very young organization.

[–]itistemp 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Without getting into left/right politics of European countries, it's the petro dollars from the Saudis that are influencing their decisions. Money trumps a lot of things! It definitely is helping make a toxic creed acceptable to the European politicians!

[–]Allah-Of-Reddit 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

What do you think happen if Europe and the US stopped using petrol? I think it would be judgment day for Muslims.

[–]itistemp 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

What do you think happen if Europe and the US stopped using petrol?

Actually, that "dystopian" future for the petro states is nearer than they ever imagined. The US is going to be a net exporter of hydrocarbons pretty soon (within a few years). Although, Europe may not be free from it in the foreseeable future, however, the reduction in US demand for imported crude would still reduce the profits that they (petro states) have enjoyed in the last decade or so. In addition, with various emerging technologies (hydrogen, electric, gas/electric hybrids), the demand for petroleum per mile of travel will decrease for personal travel. Freight is a different story. Overall, I think the days, where they could command excessive profits are behind them. However, they wouldn't just disappear.

I think it would be judgment day for Muslims.

I still think, courtesy of the digital information revolution, the judgement day is coming irrespective of other factors. They may slow it down or hasten it, but its coming.

[–]Faith-Breaker 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yup. We're pretty much on our own. We can't expect what little progress they make in the west to trickle down to the Muslim world in our lifetime.

What really sucks aside from being stuck with the Muslims here- is that the fuckups of some Muslims fortunate to be abroad, makes it more difficult for us go abroad.

Exmuslims are fucked from all sides. We have to fear Muslim backlash as well as backlash towards Muslims.

Which is why online communities are our best bet. I don't see us changing our societies but strengthening ourselves in the knowledge that there are others like us out there. The best we can do for now is to improve and strengthen ourselves as individuals by talking to others like us. Some day when the winds of change, blow in our favour, we (or perhaps the children we raise) will not be found wanting.

[–]Timothy_Riches 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

It is not up to atheist organizations to help Muslims or ex-Muslims leave their countries. Atheist organizations are meant to improve the standing of atheists in their societies, reduce stigma, challenge religious privilege and excess, and give atheists hope that they aren't the only ones who feel the way they do about religion.

[–]Faith-Breaker 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I agree.

[–]Timothy_Riches 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sorry about that. I meant to respond to /u/oneofthegoodassholes.

[–]MariMaid 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I do think Atheist organizations should raise awareness and help atheists in other countries (through charity, safe dialogue, protests, petitions etc), esp in totalitarian, religious-govern countries like Muslim countries. I feel the same about feminists and gay activists in the west. If you believe freedom from religion is a human right then you should fight for all humans, not just ones in your country.

[–]FemaleInfidel[S] 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am thinking about helping these people anonymously by helping them draft scholarship letters and in entering colleges outside of their countries.

[–]Allah-Of-Reddit 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have to say that i am very disappointed in ex-Muslim organizations in the West. They have done an exceptionally poor job in lobbying for our rights in the Western political systems,

That's why I think the stuff ex Muslim organizations are very much trivial bullshit. They talk about how hijab is a choice and how they enjoy drinking beer. All the fucking time. Like "we can be cool and hip too, shock!" no one gives a shit and they're just stepped on by Muslims for being a joke.

And the sad thing most of them criticise Ayan hirsi Ali and Sam Harris for being racist. Yeah, exactly shit on the only people who are standing by your side. I've seen Christians that stood up with ex Muslims better than those guys, no wonder some leave islam and become Christian.

Be more aggressive, have more balls. You're not going to do anything by doing drinking parties and talk about how you stopped wearing hijab. No one gives a damn. Criticise islam, the religion that want you dead. Don't suck Muslim and liberal cocks both at the same time.

[–]MariMaid 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I honestly don't think the people giving advice are particularly ex-Muslims in non-Muslim countries, but trolls and even non-Muslims who lurk on this reddit.

I'm a closeted ex-Muslim in the west (Canada), lived there all my life and STILL fear coming out and leaving my family to live the life I want. I can't imagine how hard it is in a Muslim country govern by varying strains of Sharia, when so much Muslims are in the closet in non-Muslim countries

[–]oneofthegoodassholes 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think you are underestimating the ignorance of a few people. I truly believe that those in the West especially a lot of people on this forum do not seem to understand the harsh realities of ex-Muslims trapped in Muslim lands. It is not easy to leave, if anything West gives asylum to Islamists and Muslims rather than people who actually share the core values of liberalism and democracy.

If someone even suspects that you are an apostate, it can have fatal consequences, i am disappointed that many people fail to understand the gravity of the situation many ex-Muslims are in.

[–]MariMaid 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm truly sorry that some people here lack such empathy and common sense! I really wished the government gave asylum to persecuted minority groups and wish more could be done for ex-Muslims and even liberal Muslims (as they get attack regularly as well if outspoken). I hope more awareness gets shone on this in the future, which is why I get so happy when any "new-Atheists" (hate this term -__-) mentions or talks about this widely ignored oppression on western media.

[–]malis- 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Word the fuck up.

You have some out here that can't fathom the situation and that many x-moose are living under, and go about giving terrible advice left and right.

[–]miceymouse 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh. Finally someone said it. I was about to blow up last week touching this same exact thing but kept silent because I'm not particularly active on this sub.

Props to you. I'm stuck in a Muslim country myself and rage the fuck out reading all the innocent comments and well-wishes.

Fuck that. Like what are the real options for exmoose like us?

[–]hugga4u 5ポイント6ポイント  (14子コメント)

It's just really hard to meet atheists and like minded people in those countries. But I'm sure you can find groups online. It's like getting out of an abusive relationship, you need to find a strong support group and then move on from there. It's just that we can't be vocal about our dissent. I had a page for atheist Pakistanis that I had to shut down out of fear of being found out. I feel that this is something we really need to invest in. This will encourage more to come out and be vocal. The thing with "group think" is that it gets stronger and stronger the less and less opposition is present. But if voices start to speak out others will naturally follow. This is the only long term solution.

[–]Allah-Of-Reddit -1ポイント0ポイント  (13子コメント)

But I'm sure you can find groups online.

Most of these are made by Muslims to lure kufar and homosexuals to beat them up or kill them or jail them.

So I strongly discourage doing that.

[–]hugga4u 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Really? Can you please elaborate or show some examples...

[–]Faith-Breaker 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

So what hope to offer the hopeless?

[–]Allah-Of-Reddit -3ポイント-2ポイント  (9子コメント)

Be brave.

[–]Faith-Breaker 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

You have to expand on that. Be brave and do what exactly?

[–]Allah-Of-Reddit -3ポイント-2ポイント  (7子コメント)

Honestly I don't know, just be brave and don't fear Muslims. Don't let them win against you and make you hide under their feet.

[–]Faith-Breaker 9ポイント10ポイント  (6子コメント)

Easier typed than done.

Not everyone gets ''lucky'' like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Salman Rushdie or Taslima Nasrin.

There are far more people like Alexander Aan, Raif Badawi, Theo Van Gogh, Washiqur Rahman and the staff at Charlie Hebdo.

But you know this better than most.

I am just pissed off at being put in an impossible situation simply because I don't believe in 6th century fairy tales.

[–]Allah-Of-Reddit 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

What can we do? We're racist, bigots, intolerant, Jewish agents, homosexuals who don't like getting killed.

I say just fuck it and be what you want to be instead of hiding. Be as loud as possible.

[–]Faith-Breaker 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

And following that advice you'd be facing a serious drop in quality of life if not life itself.

[–]Allah-Of-Reddit -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

You'd rather not live and do what you're told?

Fine if you're into being a slave then that's your problem.

[–]lirannl 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a general goal they should be aiming towards. I don't offer help that I don't know a lot about.

Goals give people hope, and those are great goals. As for the way to get to Europe - I don't offer help on that, as I can easily access Europe (though not live in it, except for England [common wealth thanks to Australia]), and therefore don't know what would be the steps involved in moving to Europe for a Pakistani/Iranian.

[–]TheCocksmith 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

God Damn. I would have thought this would come as common sense to fellow ex-muslims who face similar struggles.

[–]CadmeusCain 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I personally don't consider myself qualified to give advice to anyone in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iran for these exact reasons.

Emotional support? Sure, we can still provide that.

[–]Timothy_Riches 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Is it useless to suggest starting an organization that would help ex-Muslims leave their Muslim-majority country? Or to lobby current ex-Muslim organizations into expanding their mandate to include this vital function? Something could be learned about the former from doing the latter.

[–]FemaleInfidel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Are you kidding? They would be murdered at gunpoint. I don't think you understand how desperate these people are.

[–]Timothy_Riches -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have some idea. People do sometimes manage to leave North Korea. All I'm suggesting is that if a service that is desperately needed cannot be found, then it is perhaps time to create that service. Just having a publicly known mandate of helping ex-Muslims at risk to leave their countries will attract the kind of people that can make it actually happen. It would even be possible to get some funding from high-profile people like Sam Harris and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, among others.

[–]preservation82 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

BRAVO

[–]kazcovic 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I lol at those people who say "go to a western country", if it were that easy there wouldn't be any poor people. You really can't do much in a Muslim country other than knuckling under and hoping for the best.

[–]ChubakTheMagnificant 0ポイント1ポイント  (18子コメント)

Iranian here. I don't want your help, nor do I feel "suffocated" and nor have my parents "confiscated my passports". Also, Iran's annual income is close to 1b USD, Pakistan and Afghanistan combined don't make as much. Both countries are cesspits and NOT AT ALL similar to Iran.

I think you people should seriously consider pulling your precious heads out of your anus. Seriously. Iranians can easily get Visa and immigrate. Two of my cousins are currently in West, studying and shit.

[–]crystal_math92 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's only speaking for yourself and people you know. I'm sure there are Iranians in desperate situations such as OP describes. Don't take the post as a personal insult to Iran or Iranian people.

It was more of way to let those of us in the West know there are less options for those out East.

[–]ChubakTheMagnificant -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Influx of female Iranian students in West says otherwise bro.

[–]crystal_math92 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well consider you and your fellow Iranians lucky. OP made a generalization, but I doubt every Iranian in the country has the opportunity or ability to leave the country.

[–]ChubakTheMagnificant -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well yes because they are trash.

[–]FemaleInfidel[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (13子コメント)

I am not offering you any help. Don't flatter yourself. I am neither from Afghanistan nor from Pakistan but you have no right to insult people there when your country is beheading women and abusing other minorities. It's not like your country is a first world country. Get off your high horse. If you wanna act like kooni take it elsewhere. I have a lot of Persian friends and they are from wealthy and educated families. They still had issues getting a visa. In case you are suffering from total memory loss, your crazy religious leaders threatened to bomb the West, making it difficult for your fellow nationals to get visas.

[–]ChubakTheMagnificant -5ポイント-4ポイント  (12子コメント)

My country doesn't "behead" women, if they murder anyone they are executed like men via suffocation. I find it fair.

Of course it's difficult to get American Visa from Iran, because there's no embassy here. Neither there's a British and Canadian one.

YOU don't flatter yourself, cunt. You're nothing but a product of a sick, twisted culture so you label all its problems as religious and assume everyone else has the problem. No missy, most Iranian people are doing fine. Now go fuck yourself.

[–]FemaleInfidel[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

YOU don't flatter yourself, cunt. You're nothing but a product of a sick, twisted culture so you label all its problems as religious and assume everyone else has the problem. No missy, most Iranian people are doing fine. Now go fuck yourself.

Thank you, I don't need your deranged self to tell me anything. You are one of those primitive lashys. Please don't come to the West, we don't need psychopaths like you. Iran is the best place for you.

[–]FemaleInfidel[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

10 year old girl beheaded in Iran. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=437_1315661347

[–]ChubakTheMagnificant -3ポイント-2ポイント  (8子コメント)

LiveLeak? Really? You're losing your shit sister.

[–]FemaleInfidel[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

I am not your sister, madar sag.

[–]ChubakTheMagnificant -5ポイント-4ポイント  (6子コメント)

I was being ironic. Did your Persian boyfriend taught you how to swear like that? He didn't do a good job. He also didn't nail you properly (probably in the ass, since your family will kill you if he takes your flower away) that's why you're so uppity.

[–]FemaleInfidel[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

1) I never had a Persian bf

2) I don't like it up the ass. I like regular vanilla sex with men who have big penises. I am assuming you are one of those men who is not well equipped.

3) I suggest you go back to your goat fucking.

[–]ChubakTheMagnificant -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Well you can't accuse me of goat-fucking when all the white men who like to sex you up are practically goat-fuckers amirite?

[–]FemaleInfidel[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

White men have access to women here, unlike yourself in Iran.

[–]TotesMessenger 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)

[–]FemaleInfidel[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

if they murder anyone they are executed like men via suffocation. I find it fair.

Murdering innocent people is horrible. You are fucking psychopath.

[–]Mojomaniac666 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The OP is a non moose herself so her post is nonsensical since she says non moose should give no advice. But whateverrr