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OFF-TOPIC[Off-Topic]Former Reddit CEO: You're All Screwed. (self.KotakuInAction)

Idrewablueduck が 投稿

Just posted on Gawker: https://archive.is/6hw2k#selection-2667.0-2667.37

/u/Yishan:

The free speech policy was something I formalized because it seemed like the wiser course at the time. It’s worth stating that in that era, we were talking about whether it was ok for people to post creepy pictures of women taken legally in public. That’s shitty, but it’s a far cry from the extremes of hate that some parts of the site host today. It seemed that allowing creepers to post (anonymized) pictures of women taken in public, in a relatively small subreddit that never showed up on the front page, was a small price to pay for making it clear that we were a place welcoming of all opinions and discourse.

So, in his eyes the concept of free speech is simply a political tool to be used in order to stimulate growth. Not only is yishan an unethical ex-ceo but he's incredibly politically incompetent and dishonest. Maybe he missed the class on business ethics wherever he went to university.

From the same quote:

It seemed that allowing creepers to post (anonymized) pictures of women taken in public, in a relatively small subreddit that never showed up on the front page, was a small price to pay for making it clear that we were a place welcoming of all opinions and discourse.

So, in Yishan's mind it wasn't that he wanted to encourage discourse so much as he wanted to give off the appearance that reddit was a welcoming place by saying, "look we allow all kinds of speech - even anonymous pictures of non-consenting people taken in public!" That yishan considers public creepshots of unknowing people a form of speech that fosters discourse is interesting and speaks volumes to his character - as does his risk/benefit analysis between allowing things like creep-shots and giving off a disingenuous appearance of free speech.

But... the most delicious part of this is that on at least two separate occasions, the board pressed /u/ekjp[5] to outright ban ALL the hate subreddits in a sweeping purge. She resisted, knowing the community, claiming it would be a shitshow. Ellen isn’t some “evil, manipulative, out-of-touch incompetent she-devil” as was often depicted. She was approved by the board and recommended by me because when I left, she was the only technology executive anywhere who had the chops and experience to manage a startup of this size, AND who understood what reddit was all about. As we can see from her post-resignation activity[6] , she knows perfectly well how to fit in with the reddit community and is a normal, funny person - just like in real life - she simply didn’t sit on reddit all day because she was busy with her day job

So, instead of either publicly disclosing this or privately leaking it to a sub like KiA who would have, I'm sure, gladly published it he allowed a person to endure what appears to be misguided ridicule and public outcries for their head in the name of what... Growth? Restructuring. lulz? Logical fallacies be damned, Yishan is a piece of shit. What a terrible person. And he knowingly allowed thousands of people to be deceived into calling for action against the wrong person.

Ellen was more or less inclined to continue upholding my free-speech policies. /r/fatpeoplehate[7] was banned for inciting off-site harassment, not discussing fat-shaming. What all the white-power racist-sexist neckbeards don’t understand is that with her at the head of the company, the company would be immune to accusations of promoting sexism and racism: she is literally Silicon Valley’s #1 Feminist Hero, so any “SJWs” would have a hard time attacking the company for intentionally creating a bastion (heh) of sexist/racist content. She probably would have tolerated your existence so long as you didn’t cause any problems - I know that her long-term strategies were to find ways to surface and publicize reddit’s good parts - allowing the bad parts to exist but keeping them out of the spotlight.

Well seeing as you've established your lack of moral compass and shown us that you have zero ethical standards nor do you have any sympathy for the concept of honesty I read this above quote with a grain of salt. But, ASSUMING it is true and what you say about Ms. Pao is the honest truth then shame on you for perpetuating hatred towards women. You are exactly the kind of person that radical feminists point to when they say "all males are misogynist bastards." Oh and since you're pointing out the "all white racists neckbeards"... let me stop you and remind you that you let a woman fighting for free speech (according to you) take the fall for another white man's own desire to cull the less desirable places on reddit. You sir, are a fuck.

Well, now she’s gone (you did it reddit!), and /u/spez[8] has the moral authority as a co-founder to move ahead with the purge. We tried to let you govern yourselves and you failed, so now The Man is going to set some Rules. Admittedly, I can’t say I’m terribly upset.

LOL you want to blame this on the users of reddit when in fact you set the whole thing up and then let it play out? It's like you are blaming a mouse for falling into a trap when the maze you made for it has all its corridors leading to the trap. What a self-righteous pompous piece of shit. Apparently everything that's transpired was all a game for you.

Unbelievable.

NInja edit: subtracted an apostrophe.

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]Binturung 77ポイント78ポイント  (30子コメント)

You're all screwed!

...until you go to a new site! Oh wait...

I really don't get how this plan makes money.

  • Build site for any community
  • Gain popularity, become huge
  • Start burning communities you don't like
  • Keeping burning communities you don't like and squash any dissent
  • ?????
  • Profit.

And the hilarious thing is, the only thing keeping people on Reddit is the traffic and content. If you burn enough people, the people who actually generate the content that keeps people coming will ditch the site for greener pastures.

Once people settle on a successor, and it becomes stable, Reddit will wither away. People will put up with being treated with shit for only so long, and once they have an out, they'll take it.

[–]RobertNAdams 39ポイント40ポイント  (5子コメント)

...until you go to a new site!

Right? Reddit is acting like it's some kind of invaluable resource that doesn't exist somewhere else. When they jump the shark (and it's an inevitability as with all online communities), a lot of people will migrate elsewhere.

In terms of features or content they offer nothing unique other than the number of eyeballs, and those eyeballs will stray when the hardcore people putting the content out on the site are gone.

[–]Binturung 16ポイント17ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yup! I've been putzing about in Voat since No Reddit Day, and I'm enjoying it. Once it starts getting a little more populated, it'll be a good alternative. Hence why I'm still lurking and posting about over here still.

[–]primalchaos 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Voaters have declared the official term is 'grazing'. Cuz goats.

[–]Xzal -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Just an FYI. Use Hence or Why, but not both. They both mean the same thing.

https://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/hencewhy.html

Nice to see at least 5 people dislike correct grammar.

[–]mansplain 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

why I'm still lurking and posting about over here

hence I'm still lurking and posting about over here

Those seem to carry separate contexts to me.

[–]Xzal 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because you've taken them out of context. Hence and Why (unless why is being used in a quizzatorial method) come after a prior statement, they rely on something being present before them.

In the context of his sentence;

"Once it starts getting a little more populated, it'll be a good alternative. Hence why I'm still lurking and posting about over here still.", Hence and Why serve the same function.

So the correct grammar would be . "Hence I'm still lurking" or "Which is why I'm still lurking".

Compare to;

“I got tired of mowing the lawn, hence why I bought the goat.”

“Hence” and “why” serve the same function in a sentence like this; use just one or the other, not both:

“Hence I bought the goat” or “that’s why I bought the goat.”

Just because they each serve a function seperately in the same sentence, does not validate their use together. Its an unnecessary double up, much like a double negative.

http://painintheenglish.com/case/4452/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(grammar)

[–]FallenHeroWithCheese 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

kn0thing actually explained the ????? step last week, or part of it anyway. He explained that part of the change in structure to AMAs is that reddit as a company is trying to attract high profile users. They're deliberately trying to get celebrities, politicians, and "notable figures" to become active reddit posters.

It really seems like they see the popularity of the current celebrity users and want to leverage that to make some money.

I've got my own hair-brained ideas on how they plan to do that but I think this purge is a big part of making reddit more attractive to high profile users that would typically browse anonymously or under a pseudonym.

[–]Ambivalentidea 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

They're deliberately trying to get celebrities, politicians, and "notable figures" to become active reddit posters.

I wonder where in that plan the whole "let's paint everyone on reddit as an abusive harasser" is supposed to come into play. Do they want to get the Chris Browns of the world or more generally popular celebs?

[–]FallenHeroWithCheese 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think they've been careful enough that they can convince people that reddit of the "abusive harassers" if they ban enough subreddits and users.

[–]RandomFoolHere 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

How do you think the mods of AMA will react to any changes?

[–]FallenHeroWithCheese 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I certainly can't speak for them but based on their announcement last week AMA will probably probably just keep doing its own thing regardless of what the reddit admins do. I'm not sure they have much of a choice anyway.

[–]RandomFoolHere 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm just hoping the admins don't take over AMA to force it to fit their vision.

[–]unsafeideas 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

Reddit as now is loosing money. It is not earning enough to cover expenses, it runs on VCs money. The competitor did not figured out monetization enough to cover such a huge readership either, the competitor is running on VCs too.

None of them can possibly be stable long-term. Being huge costs money. Huge thing that does not earn will be forced to make changes or cease to exist.

[–]hisroyalnastiness 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is it that hard to make enough money to keep servers on or do these idiots just seem to suck at it (while drawing executive salaries)? Dodging the 'offensive' content with ads shouldn't be that hard, the site is segregated by subreddits anyways.

[–]unsafeideas 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If that would be easy, forums would be already doing it.

I suspect that ability to run VC money with no revenue for years is screwing market. A company able to run on loss has less adds and does not requires payments form users - making it more popular then competitor who would be actually trying to run business. Plus, you can sell same ads cheaper, because you do not need to be profitable now.

Maybe simply if you are trying to make it profitable you will loose to company that is not.

[–]breakwater 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Reddit has always lost money. That's why they have been passed around from one owner to another as they try to figure out how to turn a profit.

[–]unsafeideas 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

It is amazing how long can a company stay around running losses with no feasible plan how to start making money.

[–]breakwater 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well, that's because nobody previously considered the brilliant idea of insulting their users and basically telling them to fuck off. I'm sure that will bring the cash in.

[–]unsafeideas 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Worked for Fez and quite a few rappers, no reason why it wont work for reddit and game journals ...

[–]richmomz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually, that was Digg's business model when investors told the admins it was time to monetize with v4. Looks like reddit is following in their footsteps.

[–]feared_rear_admiral 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

When you don't turn a massive profit, you have to cut on your expenses. Sure we all want to be like Facebook with billions of dollars and a fancy office/campus with lots of engineers doing their own interesting projects. When you don't have billions of dollars, you don't do these things. Ever heard of living within your means?

Aside from that, you really have to wonder about what you're doing to your own website when people openly call on members not to buy gold for one another, right on the website. I would stomach ads just fine knowing that it keeps this site afloat. I would even buy gold sometimes, for myself and to give to others. You know, the most direct way to reward the people running the site by literally giving them money? How much exactly does it cost to keep this site running every year?

But no. Keep on shitting on your userbase admins, do let us know every couple of months just what a hive of despicable scum we all are. Surely that will help building goodwill at least among your users. Yeah I'm sure all the illustrious guests like the freaking president of the USA are lining up to do AMAs on your site because they believe that the community is made up of hateful bigots.

[–]NightOfTheLivingHam 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

What's sad is I have seen this tactic from other startups and VC funded companies.

There's a business method out there that is taught to up and coming business people that shows that you don't need your customers and they serve you, rather than the other way around. There's a book called the pumpkin plan that pretty much uses this.

"dump your small or bad customers and focus on the big ones"

bad customers is a given, but dumping small customers because they arent "part of the plan" is pretty stupid if you have plenty of competition.

My business partner is subscribing to this method and I have had to fight him on it and pull him off that track because our bank account took a huge nosedive after he decided that "we don't cater to small customers".

A friend's family company has done the same thing, they're just barely holding on. they have two big customers who string them along. They're barely getting bills paid.

It's a losing strategy, yet so many business advisers love it.

Reddit is following that strategy as well "You don't need users to run a successful site, you just need the creative users!"

except every user is capable of being a creative user, for every 5 shitposters, you're bound to have someone who has a creative spark under their ass.

Instead it's "fuck anyone who isnt immediately making us look good for free"

"oh people say things we don't like! ban!"

Even insinuating anything outside of cat pictures and links isnt adding value to the site.

There are subs where the comments sections are nothing but shitposts (the coveted default subs, ironically) but plenty that have meaningful discussion that keep eyes on the site.

Yet subs like coontown, greatapes, SRS, and others that literally contribute nothing to the site get to stay, especially the latter.

But hey, subs critical of the actions of another company? Those are clearly hate filled subs. Users who question the actions of the site? they can go too. Sorry, they're unpersons not real users! So they can go!

Reddit is pretty much gearing up to shoot itself in the foot. They honestly believe they are no longer beholden to the userbase and do not need the user base to survive. They honestly believe that we are at their beck and call and at their mercy, that we are a captive audience.

They are half-right. Many users have captured mindshare here, hence why reddit is still very popular, and the whole reddit blackout day never really happened. Reddit has few viable alternatives, one of which has been subjected to DDoS attacks and even attempts to shut down the domain, and one successful attempt at shuttering the host.

However, there's only so much abuse the average user or customer can take before someone else captures their mindshare.

Reddit will soon understand this, as digg understood it. As many silicon valley startups have learned.

The customer is king, even if you do not like it, they are your lifeblood.

When you sell your company to someone bigger, they arent buying you and your actual company, they're buying the user base, they see monetization value in millions of users. You and your company just happen to be part of the package.

Myspace, facebook worth millions and billions? Not really, they can be cloned easily, it's the userbase that makes them worth shit. Their brand recognition, and all that entails is only possible via the people who use it.

Taking what makes reddit popular and dumping on that to make it "conform" is not a bright idea when it comes to making money.

[–]Xzal 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

It actually -kinda- makes sense. Yishan joked about how he was doing a long con to ruin reddit to "restore the original" admins and mods.

Now while a joke, its quite viable from a monetary point of view.

Reddit sold for shedloads to Conde Nast. Yishan implements staff and influences their actions via "rules" and policies in the company before the hand over. These actions then ruin the value of Reddit. Conde Nast sells out before too much value is lost. Reddit is snapped back up cheaper than what it sold for, reverted, sat on for a while and resold at a higher value again.

It's illegal for people to do this to tangible goods (think intentionally damaging something at a shop to get a discount at sale), but theres nothing at present to stop people doing it with companies.

[–]richmomz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if it's really a joke.

[–]Wreththe 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

First of all I don't find this person (yishan) particularly credible. The public CEO level bickering and shit flinging makes them all look ridiculous.

Second we're not screwed at all because when a gap is created in the market something will fill it. Maybe voat. Maybe something that hasn't even been created yet.

Yeah. I'd like to preserve Reddit as an open place. But its future sure as hell isn't keeping me up at night.

[–]BlackBison 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Like the old saying goes, "Don't cut off the nose to spite the face".

This chucklefuck wants to slice off the eyelids, lips, and ears.

[–]cfl1 107ポイント108ポイント  (15子コメント)

He's gone full retard.

[–]Idrewablueduck[S] 49ポイント50ポイント  (8子コメント)

This is what happens when you give people so much power that they think they can do anything. People's lives simply become games for them where they do what they want, no matter the cost physically or principally, all for their own amusement.

It's fucking disgusting that Yishan thinks this is funny. A person literally went through months of misguided harassment (if yishan is to be believed which he isn't) and the only thing he can do is laugh at our own misfortune due to his and others' actions.

[–]cfl1 38ポイント39ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's fucking disgusting

Yeah, that's my takeaway. I'm actually grossed out that the site I've spent a lot of time on was run by creeps like this guy, Pao, and Ohanian all along. It doesn't matter who was the worst. The rot goes all the way down. Don't screw this up, Atko.

[–]DiaboliAdvocatus 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

The fish rots from the head, as they say.

[–]rabbidbunnyz 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

So why not cut off the head?

[–]laiki 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

of the human race?

[–]rabbidbunnyz 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not a perfect metaphor...

[–]wowww_ 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

And he effectually laughs at her supposed harassment as if it was some kind of game to him.

[–]Cross_of_Coronado 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have no words for this, this way or another. But my money is on the fact that he's a liar. Oh wait, it's a prank. It's not a lie if it comes from a proud leftist liberal with power issues.

[–]azsuranil 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This. I don't know anything about this Yishan guy, but that post reeks of genuine mustache-twirling levels of asshole.

[–]Saerain 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Reddit's very own personal Derek Smart.

[–]howieloader 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

But he's been in the industry so long... /s

[–]richmomz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's Dr. Derek Smart, PhD., first of his name, victor of the Great Usenet Flame War, slayer of vending machines, ruler of the MMO's and the seven space simulator kingdoms, to you shitlord!

[–]Danielle_S 186ポイント187ポイント  (31子コメント)

Reddit’s board has been itching to purge the site of users’ precious hate-based subreddits since the beginning. And recently, the only thing stopping them had been... Ellen Pao. Whoops.

lol uh-huh. Sure that's totally legit. I'm sure that's why a sub like /r/neofag was banned as well right? For off site her-ass-ment. What a tool.

[–]The-Narrative 33ポイント34ポイント  (29子コメント)

Honestly, everyone's really quick to blame Pao but the fact is that decisions are made by the board as a whole. I'm not saying that it's true, but it's certainly within the realm of possibility that Pao was the odd one out and that her will was overruled by the will of the majority.

[–]elavers 90ポイント91ポイント  (18子コメント)

I think the truth is that everyone involved is horrible and trying to slowly kill reddit in their own special way. Pao did become a mod for a SRS sub right after her resignation, no one is innocent here.

[–]EliteFourScott 11ポイント12ポイント  (12子コメント)

Are you serious? Why would she even want that?

[–]elavers 53ポイント54ポイント  (11子コメント)

Yes, she is now a mod of Negareddit which has strong SRS ties.

First line of their sidebar is:

Fuck reddit.

[–]tzoktzok 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow........you're not...kidding... What the fuck hahaha.

[–]LoretoRomilda 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

How deep does the rabbit hole go?

[–]CBlackrose 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

Is she actually active as a mod there though? I'm a mod of /r/cubancigars because my friend originally made it as a joke circlejerk sub because of stuff that happened on /r/cigars a while back and he modded like everybody that posted there. It doesn't ask, it just tells you that you've been modded. I don't even look at modmail let alone do any actual moderating, same thing could've happened to her.

[–]cawlmecrazy 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

You have to accept the mod invite first, so she said yes to that job.

[–]CBlackrose 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Hm, I don't remember having to accept it, but it was a while ago and it was a joke at the time anyway. In any case I agree that it looks really bad with the evidence that was provided to me, but she's not the CEO anymore so I don't really care.

[–]cawlmecrazy 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I have a sub that I mad and invited another account of most be as a back up. It won't show the other account as a mod till I accept it on that account. As the sub sets it only has one mod, I'm leaving it as a deadmans switch of sorts.

[–]CBlackrose 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fair enough, thank you for correcting me.

[–]elavers 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

She thanked them publicly for adding her as a mod, they had a big thread about it and everything. I think it is still a sticky post if you go to that subreddit.

[–]CBlackrose 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In that case it's not really cool then. I can't blame her if she harbors resentment for the Reddit community, I don't like a lot of the things that happened during her time as CEO, but that stuff is draining to go through whether it's deserved or not. Highly unprofessional to moderate that sub, but I guess it doesn't really matter anymore anyway.

[–]Furiae -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Stop unrustling their jimmies.

[–]CBlackrose -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Haha fair enough, I just had to ask for my own clarification. I agree with what TB said back at the start of this whole mess, that "cooler heads will prevail", so I'm just trying to figure out what the story is before I jump down anybody's throat. I didn't like a lot of the stuff that happened during her tenure, but she's still a human and is innocent until proven guilty to me. Anger breeds animosity, and that will be of no help when trying to resolve the issues at hand.

[–]The-Narrative 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Definitely, I just thought it was worth pointing out that the particular part of the story is plausible, even if we think it's unlikely.

[–]richmomz 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

She's also a mod of /r/ciclejerk. Yishan too. I guess the idea is: if they can't control reddit, they're at least gonna troll the fuck out of it together (how sweet).

[–]brandonclyon 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's not really definitive though, anyone can be added as a mod to any sub. Just look at /r/trees. She's also a mod of /r/circlejerk

[–]elavers 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

You have to accept a mod invitation these days, also she thanked them publicly and has a few posts there.

[–]brandonclyon 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you? I was added to /r/cryptomods in the last year without having to accept. TIL

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate 30ポイント31ポイント  (2子コメント)

The buck stops with the CEO.

If Pao really believed in free speech, she could have vetoed the decision, or resigned, or dug her heels in and forced the board to oust her.

She did none of the above. She played right along. She does not believe in free speech. And the harassment narrative is absolute bullshit. There is no evidence that it ever rose to the level claimed here:

https://archive.is/qiU4e

The admins lied, FPH died.

[–]The-Narrative 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

The buck stops with the CEO.

If Pao really believed in free speech, she could have vetoed the decision

We don't know the powers granted to the CEO of reddit or even specifically to her as an interim leader, she may not have had that ability.

As others in this and related threads have mentioned, her actions could also have been prioritizing keeping her position rather than winning this particular ideological disagreement.

The fact is that we don't know and everything we can say about it is speculation. There's no evidence one way or the other.

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Everyone has the power to resign if they are unable to perform their duties per some minimum standard of integrity.

This whole thing is Keyfabe, anyway. The subs were going to get banned one way or another. It matters very little under whose management it happens.

[–]Danielle_S 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

While entirely in the realm of possibility, the ceo is the face of the company for good or ill. I'm also remembering her participation in the narrative of pao vs silicon valley sexism. Who made the decision wasn't something we were privy to. If it was the board, fine. Reddit will go the way of digg and I hope voats servers can actually handle an influx of users this time around.

[–]The-Narrative 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Honestly, voat's kind of feeling like the Google+ of this battle. We can say that we're moving to voat until the cow's come home but in the end, our "no-reddit" day only seemed to average a 10% decline in regular activity. Something will be the reddit killer at the rate that this is going, but I doubt it'll be voat.

[–]Danielle_S 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Do you go there? I started to recently. Last night from 3 posts I made, and several replies I gained 200+ link karma and 78 comment karma. There are already people there. As of writing this, there are 618 people on voats KIA. Because people still post here doesn't mean that voat's out of the game.

[–]The-Narrative 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not saying that they're out of the game, but I feel that voat will be more of a reddit alternative than a reddit replacement. The majority of app-killers have taken center stage by bringing something new to the table, not by reliving nostalgic desires for what you thought another site was.

Voat may very well get popular but my opinion is that the majority userbase will not switch simply due to ideology. People leave when their user experience is better elsewhere, and unless they start banning subs far bigger than FPH, the majority userbase might be angry, but their user experience won't really be affected.

[–]DiaboliAdvocatus 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

People with a clue have been saying all along that the board was behind it. Even if Pao had been pushing those policies the board bought her in and sanctioned them.

I'm pretty confident that the FPH and NeoFAG bans were for commercial reasons. We know reddits investors have ties to Imgur (who FPH were fighting with) and I'd bet there are ties to NeoGAF as well.

Reddit Delenda Est.

[–]Inuma 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hmmm... I do notice that the Slimgur debate died down as well.

So Reddit using the power of their position to monopolize?

I believe that argument can be made...

[–]CountVonVague 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wong seems so damn confidant with what he's saying, but what a jackass claiming "executive privileged" and being deliberately antagonistic toward people you've probably mischaracterized and prejudged as being everything Wong doesn't like.

"the board pressed pao to ban ALL the hate subbreddits in a sweeping purge" this line. This line here. If this is true, not lies or hyperbole, then the board is no friend to the reddit community whatsoever. no, maybe that's not right. We would have to see WHO they banned then, and as far as i know KiA has been labeled a "non-harassment sub" by the admins. Which subreddits aren't making the board's theoretical cut?

[–]richmomz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If all his posts are true then why did he wait until Pao got fired to speak out? I don't think Alexis has been honest with the community either, but the timing of all this trolling seems to be driven by some kind of immense butthurt on Yishan's end (maybe he's mad his girlfriend got shit-canned again?) If he knew the management situation was that fucked up why would he drop a close personal friend right into the line of fire, knowing what she was in for?

I don't know who or what to believe anymore.

[–]mgod19http://i.imgur.com/nigrDxc.jpg 98ポイント99ポイント  (5子コメント)

Does Yishan realize that even if we believed what he says is true, it makes him look like a humungous scumbag?

[–]Idrewablueduck[S] 53ポイント54ポイント  (4子コメント)

No. All the more reason we point to him and call out his extremely large ego and hubris

[–]BGSacho 40ポイント41ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm not sure he's that daft. You could certainly see his posts as calculated to exonerate Pao of any responsibility and make her look like a saint. She never did nothing wrong, she actually stood up to all the evil backroom admins, blah blah blah.

Hers and Yishan's inability to communicate any of these subtleties while she was still a CEO on ANY forum of their choice(even off reddit!) leaves me skeptical. Even if you take all of what he said as gospel truth, it doesn't paint her in a good light - a bumbling figurehead who was only nominally "in charge", with almost non-existent communication abilities and complete cluelessness how to couch her actions in a way that wouldn't lead to a massive user revolt. That's certainly not the dark knight he's describing.

[–]TriangleDimes 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

The tide is turning and people are trying to glorify Pao now, going so far as to say this highly educated Silicon Valley lawyer turned CEO is some hapless, ignorant dunce. She knew exactly what she was doing and she spoke to the press repeatedly about her goals and principles, which people seemed to disagree with. So it's not like people were even "tricked." They protested one annoying asshole and now it turns out they need to do the same to at least one other.

The good news is that this asshole seems to be a lot more emotionally unstable and has a fragile ego, so he thinks that wall of snark he's built can't be scaled.

[–]Idrewablueduck[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I don't think she is an idiot or incompetent by any means. If you look at her CV it's quite obvious she's got the knowledge and talent. Her linkedIn profile says a lot about what she does. Restructuring, business acquisition, law, etc.

Yishan is also incredibly idiotic. I'm curious as to how he's being thought of by the admins right now. I wonder if they're laughing, concerned about his instability, or if this was part of some larger scheme. Everyone always has an angle.

All of this though needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Yishan could just be making shit up tbh because he seems like an insufferable prick. Though, I'm not sure why anyone would go out of their way to come off as a cunt.

[–]BlackBison 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

But it also sounds like he purposely hired Pao so she could take the fall for his actions and he intended to throw her under bus from the start. He certainly could have helped Pao by coming forward with this "cunning plan" before she was ousted, but decided to do nothing, then gloat about it after she left. That's a scumbag move

[–]avatar299 133ポイント134ポイント  (13子コメント)

Does anyone honestly believe his shit. He is clearly trying to make his friend look like a martyr.

[–]Idrewablueduck[S] 47ポイント48ポイント  (3子コメント)

I mean, either way he's still an unethical piece of shit. It's just, if what he says is true about Pao he is orders of magnitude more unethical.

We have a term for people like him in the infantry: Blue Falcons.

[–]BundleBee 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hell no, everyone knows SJW's eat their own especially when they don't do what the twitter SJW hate mob wants. Even if Pao remained as CEO if she didn't do something they wanted she'd be eaten alive. All yishan prooves is he knows nothing of how SJW's operate.

Go fuck yourself yishan.

[–]KarlJavelin 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Nope, I don't believe it. Not at all. I think it's an attempt to diffuse responsibility away from Pao, and the Wong-Ohanian bout is just amateur theatrics for the benefit of ourselves and (mostly) the press - Huffman totally contradicting himself, too.

We've essentially got four con artists here, three of them attempting to white knight for an adulteress with an already sullied reputation. Remember, they hired her knowing these things about her. They don't want to contradict the feminist narrative, so they're dissembling.

It's pathetic, really.

[–]nyhil_ 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

One million times this.

[–]Idrewablueduck[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This seems to be most likely. My post was giving all parties the benefit of the doubt. It also shows the insanity of yishan if the benefit of the doubt given is wrong and he's actually just posturing. Either way they're all fuckers and he just comes out looking worse no matter what.

[–]AlphaWookie 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is the truth.

[–]Eustace_Savage 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nope. Airport's law in action.

[–]thebigdonkey 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know what to make of him but it should become evident within the next few weeks whether he's speaking a grain of truth or not.

[–]richmomz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not really. I don't trust Alexis either but Yishan honestly sounds like he's just butthurt over his friend/girlfirend getting fired. If all this is true why didn't he open his mouth earlier? Why would he appoint a close personal friend to take over a position which he knew was going to be fucking hell, and possibly career suicide as well? Shit doesn't add up.

[–]cantbebothered67835 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes. Unfortunately his post and other supportive replies are being massively upvoted.

[–]futtinutti 70ポイント71ポイント  (12子コメント)

Yishan has been throwing accusations left and right since Pao was sacked.

He seems pretty salty.

[–]Idrewablueduck[S] 17ポイント18ポイント  (11子コメント)

I'm curious as to why? I don't know enough of the backstory.

[–]futtinutti 40ポイント41ポイント  (6子コメント)

Well, he personally hired Pao when he stepped down as CEO.

[–]Idrewablueduck[S] 16ポイント17ポイント  (5子コメント)

It just seems strange to me that for someone that people claim he calls such a good friend that he was so silent during her tenure.

I mean for all the talk of reddit being a privately owned site they could have come out in support of each other and the fucking site would have ate that shit up. Instead there's this massive clusterfuck.

[–]futtinutti 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

Agree, hard to know what is really going on behind closed doors, especially with their lack of transparency, but from what I have seen from the Reddit leadership, they do not appear very professional.

Certainly these public outbursts only makes Yishan look foolish.

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's the Night of the Long Knives at reddit.

Everyone's busy backstabbing each other. Lots of narrative spinning. Believe nothing you hear, only what you see.

[–]richmomz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The night is long, and full of shadowbans.

[–]Xzal 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Inb4 Yishan and Pao had bets going to see how long each other could last as CEO?

[–]BlackBison 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some friend - "I hired her as a decoy to take the brunt of hate we'll get when we tear down Reddit, sit by and do nothing while she gets shit on in the media, then brag about how we set her up as a lame duck to draw Reddit's fire away from us." That just makes her look like a mindless puppet and him like a colossal asshole.

[–]Konsalik 27ポイント28ポイント  (2子コメント)

To quote another user from /r/technology:

Yishan is bitter Pao was thrown under the bus by Alexis and the board. He recommended her for the post, and I will bet half my karma that they have a personal relationship as well. Now he sees the perfect opportunity to get back at Alexis and the board, with some grade A shit posting. Check out some of his previous comments in the past few days, you'll get the gist. No complaints from me though, makes for some excellent popcorn.

[–]wowww_ 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

He is probably right.

[–]richmomz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's just mad his girlfriend got shit-canned. That's my theory, anyway.

[–]MARsDoesNothing 32ポイント33ポイント  (8子コメント)

and /u/spez[8] has the moral authority as a co-founder to move ahead with the purge

Oh wait

move ahead with the purge

There's something kinda ominous here

the purge

Hey Stalin

[–]Idrewablueduck[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

OMG

WE ARE THE JEWS

[–]MARsDoesNothing 19ポイント20ポイント  (4子コメント)

Naw, The Great Purge was Stalin systematically pruning dissent, ideas and people so he could run Russia under an unopposed umbrella of authoritarianism.

Jews were Hitler's thing.

[–]Xzal 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fun fact; Hitler had his own resistances to fight. And periodically wiped out dissent, ideas and people to rule unopposed. They were called the Widerstand and I think 77,000 anti Nazi germans would warrant being a purge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_resistance_to_Nazism

[–]Viliam1234 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Jews were Hitler's thing.

Actually, both Hitler's and Stalin's. It's just that Stalin had so many other targets that it's almost impossible to remember all of them. (Also, Molotov–Ribbentrop pact required removing Jews from any positions of importance in Soviet Union, although not killing them.)

[–]DoctorBarkanine 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Stalin was pretty indiscriminate in who he targeted.

Got in way of Soviet Progress Machine? Hope you enjoy gulag.

[–]navurrah 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_plot

[–]BuddhaFacepalmed 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Feels like the preceding years were the Great Leap Forward and now we're in the Cultural Revolution phase of reddit.

[–]BlackBison [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If this means Reddit will end up about guys in clown masks stabbing the shit out of Ethan Hawke, I'm fully onboard with this.

[–]Drakaris 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

all the white-power racist-sexist neckbeards

Oh, the poor delusional moron...

[–]ServetusM 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

We tried to let you govern yourselves and you failed, so now The Man is going to set some Rules. Admittedly, I can’t say I’m terribly upset.

Bullshit. "Governing yourselves" would have meant not interrupting various systems the community and some admins FROM the community set up to run important programs on Reddit. I means you do not try to "govern" IAMA, and fire the one liaison the mods here use.

These jerks "allowed us to govern" in the same way the two parties in the U.S. "allow each other to govern". They essentially do everything in their power to sabotage each other, and then stand there in front of the cameras with shit eating grins saying "We tried to let X president govern...but he's accomplished nothing! So now you need to elect my party to accomplish it!" It's a trick as old as time, and fuck these guys for trying to use it.

The fact here is no one here was allowed to govern themselves. We were constantly being prodded by the actual government of Reddit. With bans to forums they didn't like, and removal of systems we needed to effectively govern ourselves.

[–]Beingabummer 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't get this quote because this is not a country. In a country you have to listen to The Man (government) because otherwise you have to emigrate or revolt and that's a big deal. But this is a website. The Man doesn't have any power here because I'll just go to another website if I don't like it. I don't know why he's so smug about it. "We're going to kill Reddit and you'll have to take it."

[–]Tenbuckstew 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Delusions of grandeur is all I can think of, and even that phrase doesn't describe this level of hubris.

[–]Danielle_S 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

/u/yishan she's gone man. Let it go. You're only making yourself look foolish.

edit: lol now he's puttering around srd. Fitting. Spastic twat

You and pao now moderating /r/circlejerk that's even more fitting. Fuck off troll.

[–]Steampunk_Moustache 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

/u/spez has the moral authority as a co-founder to move ahead with the purge.

DO IT FAGGOT

[–]NearFutureMan 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

Gawker and others are having a literal meltdown over the fact Redditors sacked a CEO by depriving a website of their free labor. Amazing.

[–]Phionic 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

she was the only technology executive anywhere who had the chops and experience to manage a startup of this size, AND who understood what reddit was all about.

Hahaha, oh wow!

[–]DMXONLIKETENVIAGRAS 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

lol who the fuck does he think thats convincing

What all the white-power racist-sexist neckbeards don’t understand is that with her at the head of the company, the company would be immune to accusations of promoting sexism and racism

tell that to gawker and srs and every media outlet thats convinced your creation is equivalent to stormfront with or without pao

like he cant honestly be that thick, its probably just him trying to be antagonistic because shit isnt going as well as hed hoped

fortunately in the real world i doubt the investors are going to let these dorks kill their website out of spite

[–]wowww_ 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

Someone up top said he might be in a relationship with her, I think that is very likely after this extravagant shitpost.

[–]DMXONLIKETENVIAGRAS 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

it does seem like a bit of a tantrum rather than a thought out post

especially the forced "ayy lmao this is awesome!"

its like when people type IM LAUGHING SO HARD AT YOU

overcompensating like a motherfucker

[–]cvillano 26ポイント27ポイント  (5子コメント)

This shit makes 0 sense, Voat cant get up and running soon enough, save us all the headache of these narcissist douchebags

[–]OY_VEY_ANUDDAH_SHOAH 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

Voat has already been approached by VCs. They won't last much longer than reddit god bless them. Because free speech social media are easy DDoS and/or false flag to pull payment processors they are guarenteed to need VCs eventually.

We probably need to come to grips with the fact the elite are gentrifying social media and start running counter advertising campaigns targeted at the same demographic they are pandering to.

What can we do to devalue these people as content creators? Ad revenue alone won't work because its mostly native advertisements and astroturfing + censorship in favor of an ideology or brand (i.e. imgur, sopa)

Maybe we should form a Society of Professional Janitors and write an ethics code and charge for membership like the SPJ. We could maybe use the same acronym.

Alternatively we find a way to maximize our own value on social media and out compete the redditors' content. Autistic rennaisance anyone?

[–]poko610 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I hope Voat finds a way to monetize sooner rather than later. I would rather have non-instrusive monetization from the start rather than suddenly have instrusive ads to make up for lost capital.

[–]Xzal 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well they kept finding ways and it keeps getting blocked or shutdown by those monetising companies that are in pocket and Bitcoin isn't mainstream enough to take on well enough.

[–]exclamationmarc 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Society of Professional Janitors

But that means they'll be doing it for free.

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's running with a DDoS filter on the CDN. It takes a few seconds to get in the first time, then you're fine for the most part.

[–]DwarfGate 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Get ready to burn this bitch to the ground if this fucker doesn't straighten up IMMEDIATELY.

[–]Ferlion123 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

On their heads may this decision lay , upon this statement shall we prey.

No game or shame will save them all, It's time to remind them even the mighty may fall. On top our backs a weight we hold, an ideal we cast to be our mold.

The coming weeks will test our mettle, remember to stand strong and never settle.

It's not our fight and not our goal, but if reddit wants to fuck with us, their heads will roll.

We are wide spread, our voices power, to strike us dead grants us entrance to their ivory tower.

We have boards and Chan's and voat you see, innocent or guilty, they can't silence little old me.

So perk up friends, my warriors, see.. From this point forward we stand firm as a tree.

This storm will come, and it will pass. Buck up Vivian, it's time to burry Reddits ass.

[–]White_Phoenix 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: /pol/ was right again.

[–]elavers 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

The popcorn rises!

[–]SkizzleMcRizzle 31ポイント32ポイント  (2子コメント)

Fuck Yishan. I don't care if this is true or now, now he's pointing out 2 different sides of a story. he was against Pao before, never said anything during it all, and suddenly she's a savior? fuck you, you unethical, sociopathic numbnut.

[–]wowww_ 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

She finally started blowing him. As the shrewd "businessperson" she is.

She fucked a married male colleague at her last job, didn't she?

[–]SkizzleMcRizzle 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dunno. All I care about is the bullshit she tried during her time as a CEO. Sorry for the profanity but people like Yishan really get under my skin.

[–]White_Phoenix 27ポイント28ポイント  (1子コメント)

Holy shit. This is like a messiah complex taken to the nth degree.

Promoting off-site harassment? They may be a bunch of assholes but FPH didn't do any of that. They strictly enforced that rule, SO KEEP PULLING AT STRAWS.

Does he not know a majority of people pushing for actual free speech are left leaning liberals? How out of fucking touch with reality can you get? Did he ever fucking come here at all? Holy crap.

At this point everything he says is pretty much unbelievable. Take this shit with a torrential mountain of salt, because he's sounding like a fucking Bond villain with his message.

[–]Revan232 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

he's sounding like a fucking Bond villain with his message.

Don't they all?

[–]Ralod 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

And if they go through with this plan to sanitize reddit people will flee in mass numbers. Here is the rub, reddit is only potentially profitable because of the number is users in the 18 to 35 demographic. Take that away and reddit is fucked.

I don't think they understand how make or break this is for most of us. I don't give two shits about hate Subreddits, I would not be upset if they were gone. But the act of censoring that speech makes me feel that mine is the next to be regulated because I don't tow the approved Admin line. What is offensive? Who determines that? Just so many ways this can go wrong.

[–]Tallim 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

We're all screwed?

Well luckily for us we don't have to stay at a website if we don't like what they are doing.

[–]TurielD 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

We're not locked in here with you...

[–]feared_rear_admiral 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

To be fair though that's on Gawker, he didn't actually himself say anyone's screwed. I'm gonna go out on a limb though and say anonymous users on a forum site will have an easier time adjusting to a new site than the people running that site will with a diminishing readership.

Speaking of screwed, the Hulk Hogan vs Gawker trial can't come to a head soon enough. If they lose they are truly fucked.

[–]Tallim 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Speaking of screwed, the Hulk Hogan vs Gawker trial can't come to a head soon enough. If they lose they are truly fucked.

I'm so looking forward to that.

[–]FallenHeroWithCheese 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Regardless of reddit's "plan" there are a few things to remember:

  • Maybe Pao held back an outright purge but right now all we have is Yishan's word and frankly I don't think that's worth very much. He's been deliberately stirring up shit lately and there's no way to know what parts are true and what parts aren't.

  • Pao was still a bad leader/CEO:

    • Her "vision" for the site seemed to lack direction. Look at the announcements made while she was CEO. A vast majority of them are nebulous "this is how we feel" nonsense with nothing about how she actually plans to move reddit forward. As much as I thought Yishan was a weak CEO, he at least had some interesting ideas (redditgifts, redditgifts marketplace, redditcoin, etc). Regardless of the success of those ideas they actually did something to innovate and improve the site.
    • She did not communicate with the site effectively, especially when it became most important. Regardless of who actually fired Victoria, someone should have stepped up and said "OK, well lets notify our moderators first and give them time to work with us". Someone should have come out sooner over the July 4th weekend to say "Hey, we fucked up, sorry. Here's what we're doing to make it right". That did eventually happen but I think it took far too long. That's something you want to nip in the bud.
    • She banned salary negotiations for reddit hires. Frankly I think this is one of the best examples of why she was a bad CEO. This decision is toxic when it comes to recruiting, especially in the highly competitive market of SF startups."Oh, I can't negotiate my salary at reddit, I'll look for a job somewhere else then."
    • She didn't seem to have a good grasp on how to actually use reddit. Case in point: She tried to link to a private message someone sent her instead of taking a screenshot and uploading it somewhere. While not a cardinal sin or anything it's indicative of her knowledge of reddit. I think that kind of knowledge is key to being an effective leader. You need to know how your product works before you can shape its future.

  • She came to reddit with a significant amount of professional baggage most of which was a pretty good indicator of how she operates in the workplace. She made a list of grievances for each of the people she worked with at Kleiner Perkins. That's psychotic. If you have issues with people at work, talk to them. If it's something you can't talk about directly, go to HR. If I were reddit's employees I sure as hell wouldn't want someone like that leading the company.

And that's all just info that can be confirmed by public statements or court documents.

If you take what former community member /u/davcak said in his AMA at face value, Ellen also brought structural changes that affected reddit's corporate culture pretty significantly - possibly for the worse.

In the end, Ellen Pao was the CEO - she was the public face of the company. When companies make shitty decisions that upset their "customers", the CEO usually take the fall. This case is no different - in fact it's even "easier" for her to resign since she was always supposed to be an interim CEO. She was going to resign eventually, it just happened sooner rather than later, and on less than ideal terms.

TL;DR: Yishan has been spewing a lot of shit lately and has ignored a lot of the problems Pao brought with her. She was still a bad leader/CEO despite whether or not she fought against a blanket ban of "offensive" content.

Also, fuck Gawker. I'm disappointed the direct link to this article has 5k+ upvotes elsewhere on the site.

[–]SlipperyThong 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

What a fucking cuntwad. Oops, pardon my hate speech!

[–]saltlets 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

I will never fucking understand how creepshots is deemed acceptable, but coontown is going too far.

Yes, coontown is full of disgusting racists saying disgustingly racist things. So is the comments section of every YouTube video over 10k views. Pretending racists don't exist doesn't actually make them not exist. Letting them speak is what does that. The membership of the KKK collapsed once it stopped being a secret society and Stetson Kennedy made all their absurd nonsense public knowledge on the radio.

Bad ideas can be defeated in the marketplace of ideas. Anonymous creepers can't. Yet they consider vague "hate speech" against amorphous groups worse than violating the privacy of actual individuals for sexual satisfaction.

[–]sunnyta 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bad ideas can be defeated in the marketplace of ideas. Anonymous creepers can't.

beautifully said

[–]Idrewablueduck[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is my philosophy on how free speech moderates everyone and why speech and free thought and intellectual discovery are so heavily intertwined. You can't just deny one. Cutting off speech has a chilling effect on intellectual discovery and free thought. Same goes for the other two.

It basically comes down to this:

In a perfect world where free speech is king there are really terrible ideas that come along with that speech. Buuuut... a side effect of free speech is that we can freely debate why certain speech is terrible. If I sit down with a group of people who, after hearing someone say "all of group x are lesser human beings and therefor deserve Y", want to dissect this statement we can then all look to whatever applicable studies and philosophy and critically examine the statement. I am going to assume that a rational group of people are going to come to the conclusion that if X is skin color and Y is death then the person who said that is wrong. There's plenty of science and philosophy to prove them wrong.

The above scenario isn't an easy thing though. It's scary to evaluate something we think is wrong for fear of actually reshaping our own opinions. It's not so scary in the context of race though because that's obvious for most. Still, for those who it isn't obvious the critical period where you examine the statements like the one above are what actually contribute to learning and the dissemination of knowledge that also has comprehension.

When you stifle speech you do two immediately obvious things. The first being that you deny people the ability to critically examine socially unacceptable ideas which denies them their own comprehension of why things are deemed socially unacceptable. A perfect example would be unilaterally saying that calling black people "niggers" is immoral and unethical. If they ask why and you simply say "because it is" the reasoning behind their understanding isn't as strong and can possibly lead them to reject that socially accepted idea that calling black people the n-word is terrible.

Secondly, you deny the people who hold terrible ideas the ability to be examples of why we don't do or say certain things. They are in effect their own publicly visible justifications for why we don't do or say the things they do or say. If you take the idea in the last paragraph where meaning is lost on newer generations who don't have the luxury of the visceral feeling of being victims of racial violence and apply it to this second reasoning you get the same effect. I.e. If you simply tell me that racists are bad I can take you on your word. But this holds less meaning then actually seeing a racist in action. Someone else mentioned the immediate downfall of the KKK as they went public with their ideas. That is a perfect example of the intellectual discovery and free speech concepts at play.

And we're seeing the negative blow backs of not being able to see why things are so important with the movements like the anti-vax crowd. No one sees their children in an iron lung anymore Why? Because vaccinations work. But simply telling you vaccinations work doesn't have the same effect as seeing a child born without vaccinations and being put into an iron lung does. You're probably going to see the child that did get vaccinations and think to yourself "fuck that I'm vaccinating my kid".

Same thing with ideas and speech.

[–]Rufus_Reddit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No one sees their children in an iron lung anymore Why? Because vaccinations work.

There's less paralysis, but there's still some of it. The reason we don't see iron lungs is because positive pressure machines are usually better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_pressure_ventilator#Modern_usage

"... Most patients with paralysis of the breathing muscles use modern mechanical ventilators that push air into the airway with positive pressure. These are generally efficacious and have the advantage of not restricting patients' movements or caregivers' ability to examine the patients as significantly as an iron lung does. ..."

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

She resisted, knowing the community, claiming it would be a shitshow.

Don't mistake this for a conscience. This is merely logistics. They said as much as part of the FPH ban announcement.

[–]liquid_j 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

That cute little goat is getting more and more attractive with every admin post.

[–]mfdokmzoekemokfz 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm dumbfounded by the implication harsh words are magnitudes worse than creepy pictures taken without consent and posted on one of the largest public websites for strangers to jerk off to. We truly live in a post-privacy world.

[–]unsafeideas 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Anonymized creepy pictures, which is what he was talking about, do much less harm then lies spread about you. Yes that includes also false accusation of sexism or racism. It includes people spreading rumor someone got to position due to her breasts and sexuality only too.

Yes, they are free speech. I would still much much preferred to have anonymized creepy picture of me out there then been subject of hate by mob.

I care less about some stranger I can easily ignore jerk to. I would care if I would not get a job due to be being falsely accused of racism or being slut.

[–]BendersDame 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

a liberal getting his jollies by people oh im sorry "hate groups" being censored how typical.

[–]Bookkeep 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I look forward to Ellen Pao suing Reddit for creating a hostile work environment for her.

It would be nice to get a list of what is considered hate subs as well.

[–]wowww_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It would have been very principled - the CEO of reddit, who once sued her previous employer for sexual discrimination, upholds free speech and tolerates the ugly side of humanity because it is so important to maintaining a platform for open discourse. It would have been unassailable.

We shouldn't believe this for a second-

Well, now she’s gone (you did it reddit!), and /u/spez[8] has the moral authority as a co-founder to move ahead with the purge. We tried to let you govern yourselves and you failed, so now The Man is going to set some Rules. Admittedly, I can’t say I’m terribly upset.

You made it happen by intentionally letting it stay that way, it's (almost) surprising that you're just as much of a nutbag as popcorn is.

but the many redditors who made so many people’s lives living hells—all under the pretense of crusading for free speech

blah blah blah, pull stuff out of my ass, blah blah blah blah

[–]_pulsar 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

What all the white-power racist-sexist neckbeards don’t understand is that with her at the head of the company, the company would be immune to accusations of promoting sexism and racism

Hahahaha yeah fucking right

[–]Aurondarklord 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sigh well, we were right, Ellen Pao was a scapegoat all along and the whole thing was a trap, everything Spez said about not shadowbanning and all that has turned out to be lies.

The important thing to take from this is that this post is basically a giant public confession that the board of reddit has been running a long con on its own users and the people it hired. If this stuff is even true, then:

1: Ellen Pao was set up to fail, deliberately, to create a pretext for a purge, I guess there was something to what that software engineer who quit said about a glass cliff after all.

2: Pao was hired for her race, gender, and feminist cred to insulate the site against criticism. Reddit was pulling a literal "some of my best friends are [X]!" defense. Talk about using women and minorities as shields.

3: Reddit deliberately incited its own user base into revolt so they could make us look bad, and allowed Pao to take the fall for it. This is all but an admission that Victoria's firing was a deliberate part of their plan to incite a controlled riot to push their narrative and martyr Pao.

I don't know whether they deliberately hired a CEO they knew was toxic, created the right set of conditions, and let her spiral, or if she was in on it the whole time and this was effectively a two man con, but either way, this is utterly deplorable behavior, not to mention outright conspiracy on the part of the site's board. So we need to get this post circulating as much as we can and show the world that it's Yinshan, not us, who clearly hates women.

[–]CrushTheSJWSlime 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is such a stupid comment to make.

We're not screwed, we are the userbase and for Reddit we are the product,

Reddit is screwed.

[–]kungfukai 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JFfN5pKzFU

[–]BoxworthNCSU 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If this was true, the time to say it was not AFTER she left. I doubt this is true.

I think this guy is drunk.

[–]pyrateboy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I don't know how many of Yishan's comments I believe yet. He could very well be in cover his ass mode as he brought her into the company and then vouched for her on his way out the door. His own reputation is on the line here. Funny how he never bothered with any of this information before she left reddit...

[–]Final_Paladin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

As if ...

Seriously ... who buys this bullshit?

Lame.

[–]randomcburner"I'm 95% sure I'm on shrooms" -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

When Yishan talks I like immediately fall asleep.

Wake me up if he finds any evidence instead of stories he made up.

[–]Macismyname 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're free to say whatever you want under this bastion of free speech! Until it is something we don't want you to say.

[–]wharris200122k get! 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

If we accept what Yishan is saying at face value, then:

Pao was hired primarily for her image as a feminist / woman CEO.

Pao did not set policy - the board did. [Pao was a figurehead and not really in charge]

Pao and the board disagreed over policy. Pao knew that the board's plan to ban so-called harassing subreddits would cause a major shitstorm, but was unable to convince the board to abandon the plan [Pao is a poor communicator].

Even though the shit-storm was the fault of the board of directors, Pao took the blame for it [Pao is politically inept and does not know how to defend herself against blame-shifting and back-stabbing].

So, according to Yishan, Pao is a fantastic CEO????

[–]DarkPhoenix142 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pao and the board disagreed over policy. Pao knew that the board's plan to ban so-called harassing subreddits would cause a major shitstorm, but was unable to convince the board to abandon the plan [Pao is a poor communicator].

This one bugs me the most. Is Yishan trying to portray Pao as someone who had the communities interests at heart? Really?

[–]pubshitlord 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He could be trying to kill the site.

[–]sunnyta 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

it's so dishonest to compare creepshots to people just speaking their mind

[–]TheJewsisLoose 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This sub is really losing any semblance of a sense of self awareness

[–]Uburoth 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

These people act like something will be lost if/when Reddit is gone. It'll just move somewhere else. Ever hear of halfchan?

[–]Agkistro13 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Does this guy think we have to stay on Reddit and listen to his Man and their Rules?

The fucking hubris is astounding.

[–]Dal_Gren 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sounds like his head is the size of a hot air balloon (and filled with similar stuff). Once Voat has a good mobile app, pretty much done with reddit.

[–]M1ST1C 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe we should start emailing the investors

[–]Velvet_Llama 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So remember how there was never any actual evidence that Pao was trying to ban every single sub that so much as annoyed her, but everyone just went with it and grabbed the pitchforks because it fit their narrative of the evil SJW trying to destroy Reddit? Ooops!

[–]downvotemeasshole 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

then shame on you for perpetuating hatred towards women.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? The only guilty people are those who insulted, harassed, threatened Pao.

Fucking man up and take responsibility for your behavior you whiny hypocrit.

[–]MarshallBanana -2ポイント-1ポイント  (8子コメント)

So, instead of either publicly disclosing this or privately leaking it to a sub like KiA who would have, I'm sure, gladly published it he allowed a person to endure what appears to be misguided ridicule and public outcries for their head in the name of what... Growth? Restructuring. lulz? Logical fallacies be damned, Yishan is a piece of shit. What a terrible person. And he knowingly allowed thousands of people to be deceived into calling for action against the wrong person.

"HOW DARE YOU ALLOW ME TO KEEP BEING WRONG! IT IS NOW YOUR FAULT THAT I WAS WRONG! NOT MINE! NEVER MINE!"

[–]alphazero924 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

If someone is suspected of murder, the evidence the cops have points toward that person, and that person gets convicted. Don't get mad at the cops when some asshole comes out later and says "Haha, just kidding. He was totally innocent. I actually have evidence that proves it was this other guy who did it."

[–]wazzup987 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

"HOW DARE YOU ALLOW ME TO KEEP BEING WONG! IT IS NOW YOUR FAULT THAT I WAS WONG! NOT MINE! NEVER MINE!"

fixed

[–]Tamias -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

How embarrassing for KiA and related subs :)

[–]AspsVeryDangerous -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't really know what ethical standards have to do with it. The site is privatly run and can be whatever the owners want it to be. I was for the blackouts because I disagreed with the way they were going about doing that.

If they just destroyed subs like /r/coontown in one fell swoop, I'd have zero issue with that. /r/neofag / /r/neogafinaction though, was a mistake.

There's a really obvious line between subs created for outright racism/persecusion and a sub that might be deemed 'sexist'. Sexism isn't anywhere near that fucking level.

EDIT: To clarify, Reddit posting a clarified policy on subreddit creation and use, giving people say, a month to conform or jump ship if they choose, then closing down those that break that policy is a legit business move. IF that's how they go about it. Alluding to sub closures vaguley with vague reasoning is not the way to do it.