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"The board pressed /u/ekjp to outright ban ALL the hate subreddits in a sweeping purge. She resisted, knowing the community, claiming it would be a shitshow" - /u/Yishan (archive.is)

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[–]SpawnPointGuard 91ポイント92ポイント  (15子コメント)

All this shit seems so odd. Between this and Alexis saying it was his decision to fire Victoria, why is everyone leaping to her defense now? If this shit's true and they actually cared, shouldn't they have mentioned something while all the heat was on her? They're just coming forward with this shit after it drove her out? Alexis said he was "eating popcorn" as it was going on. If that's true, he just sat back and watched her burn for what he did. After all the shit she was taking for banning those subs, no one thought to mention that she fought against it? Any way you look at it, every one of these people is completely full of shit.

[–]unsafeideas 29ポイント30ポイント  (0子コメント)

My working theory is that they impulsively run their mouths, say whatever makes them feel good to say that day and is not particularly dangerous to say that day without regards to any long term.

Otherwise said, do not expect it to be meaningful rational plan nor well timed nor anything like that nor make complete sense.

Moreover, those statements might be part of some ongoing fight inside reddit which we know nothing about.

[–]Interlapse 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ohanian is the top patreon donator of LW, make of that what you will. For me it's clear, just another SJW who doesn't care about what really happens to people, just uses them to further his goals. Fire a woman that everyone likes and does her job amazingly well? Check. Let somebody else take the blame for it? Check. Use that fact twisting it, to make it seem that people criticizing his company are the ones at fault? Check.

[–]the_yamaraja 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

In the current theory of Ellen Pao being the fall guy it looks like they never wanted to come forward with any of this, they wanted Pao to take every single bit of heat for what was going on and for them to get none but somewhere along the lines their plan fucked up and more and more shit just keeps coming out if that was their intention.

[–]unsafeideas 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe she left too soon. They might wanted to do more changes to blame them on her, but now can not.

[–]simmen92 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

It might have been the "popcorn tastes good" comment. Something as simple as that shifted a lot of the attention away from Pao and towards Alexis, and thus they needed to apease the masses, and thus they threw out Pao.

[–]the_yamaraja 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Man that's a comment that will haunt Alexis for years, so few words and yet.. So revealing.

[–]TheHat2 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

TinfoilHat2 time. Like, HUGE conspiracy theory shit, so take this with a mountain and a half of salt.

It was a setup.

The board wanted to get rid of the "worst" communities on the site, mostly the ones that would be "problematic" for investors, advertisers, and media. Ellen Pao stands in their way. So what do they do? Convince her to just ban five, with one being a community that already has an awful reputation across the site. She agrees, and thus, the "Chairman Pao" meme is born. Reddit's worst predictably turns on Pao, but other communities see her as a problem for the site, as well.

The board loves this, especially after The Darkening, which Pao ends up being partially blamed for. Seeing as her mission is complete, they move to remove her, but allow her to say she resigned (what CEO gets fired on a Friday?). The media moves quick to characterize Reddit as even more racist and misogynistic than ever, saying the users drove Pao away.

The board is exactly where it wanted to be. With the biggest obstacle out of their way, and with plenty of third-party support, the board basically got free reign to ban whatever they wanted, and can cite "misogynistic bullies forcing Ellen out" as a reason.

tl;dr, We fucked up and took the bait.

[–]Aurondarklord 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't think Pao was some unsung hero of the user, fighting against the board for us, but unable to say anything. Hell, if Pao had wanted, instead of banning five communities, she could have banned six, with the last being SRS, and users would have considered the whole thing much more legitimate when it didn't reek of naked political bias because known harassers on the other side got banned too.

Was this a long con? I definitely think so, but perpetrated against the userbase, not against Pao, she was either in on it (because there's nothing an SJW loves more than being a martyr), or somebody they hired to be their heavy cuz they knew she was toxic and would hang herself if given enough rope.

I think this whole "Pao was actually on your side all along guys, and this is why you can't have nice things!" is just another new narrative they're making up, more revisionist history designed to justify a purge and say we brought it on ourselves, it smacks of the stereotypical racist cop going "I was only gonna beat you a little bit boy, but now you're resisting, so you asked for it!" It's a catch 22, they were gonna do this no matter what, either the userbase would roll over and let them, or we'd revolt and they'd go "look what you did to poor sweet Ellen Pao who was only trying to help you!", and point to the revolt itself as justification for the purge. End result is the same either way.

[–]TheHat2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, I don't think she was heroic, either, but certainly not the villain we made her out to be.

[–]Gmandam 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The only problem on this concept is quite simple.

It's impossible to verify. Like, 100% impossible to verify. The person who "dropped this bomb" was a close friend of hers. She herself is unlikely, or unable to say anything either due to desire to actually work in the industry again at some point or some form of binding NDA.

The board aren't going to tell the truth, because that'd fuck up this entire plan from the start.

So where does that leave people? Trusting the words of someone who would want to side with the person that was fired? Trusting sources that are under great pressure to shift blame away from themselves for multiple reasons?

This does not make a good source for evidence. Until I see something more specific, like minutes of meetings or the like, I'm going to put this in the "Salty" category because quite frankly I've got no reason to believe it.

Incidentally, if she was "for the users". It probably would have helped if something had been said prior to the cluster fuck.

Cause honestly, if you want to blame someone for why she's gone, blame the people that said she was the one who did the banning and the firing,

[–]Gazareth 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seems like they wanted to drive her out.

[–]Grampy_Bone 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So now it comes out that these guys are the real culprits and happily scapegoated Pao? So we were all wrong all along? Nothing makes sense anymore.

If true, why admit it now?

[–]NightOfTheLivingHam 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is damage control for Pao.

Yishan is her friend.

I think she was complicit in it just as much as Alexis.

Much how former presidents get excused for bullshit after the fact and retroactively are not responsible for their past dealings.

I've been seeing more and more pro-bush shit after Obama's term, Clinton is now liberal jesus after Bush's term, and so on and so forth.

Spoilers: Bush and Clinton were shitty presidents. Obama is barely better than Bush. Obama has done a few good things coupled with a whole lot of very bad things (such as going after whistleblowers and vastly expanding executive powers and legalizing assassinations of american citizens)

yet whatever the next president does, Obama will be remembered as a perfect saint. Bush has so far been relegated to being "not that bad" in certain circles, and in republican circles, he was a saint because OBAMA.

Same thing is happening here. Pao's history is being whitewashed by her friend and people are actually believing it. Whatever spez does now will be worse than whatever Pao did in the eyes of redditors.

In reality she was part of the problem, and despite signs that the reddit leadership was behind her 100%, people thought getting rid of her would solve everything wrong with the site.

Nope, got saddled with someone who is exactly the same.

tl;dr Reddit is getting played hard.

[–]corrupt_journalist -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

People are complex. Maybe they stayed quiet out of respect for Ellen's wishes, or they didn't want to speak for a woman, or there was executive privilege, or they felt that keeping a lid on things was appropriate but have now changed their minds.

You have the option of putting some thought into this and trying to have empathy for people who are only human. You aren't entitled to have perfect information about everything that happens, so some things aren't going to have clear answers. That has to be okay -- it's just part of being alive in the world.

Your relationship with reddit admins is only as adversarial as you make it. If it's your choice to constantly nitpick and find fault, then you're never going to be happy on reddit. It would be best for everyone if you found an alternative.

[–]shinbreaker 38ポイント39ポイント  (5子コメント)

Anyone else noticing that the execs at Reddit are showing their true colors of having no class and have the same temperament as high schoolers? It's like a bunch of nerds fighting amongst themselves and outcasting those deemed to not cool enough.

[–]The-Narrative 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

They started reddit in college.

Maybe they never left

[–]unsafeideas 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah, but note that Alexis is not nerd - he studied commerce and history. Pao is lawyer. Yishan Wong is just about only engineer there.

Sorry if off-topic, but I am tired of geeks and nerds being blamed for what management, business and law people do.

[–]bobcat 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ellen is a BSEE.

I don't know that she ever worked as one.

[–]unsafeideas 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

She is a lawyer. She has bachelor from electrical engineering in 1991 and law degree from Harward in 1994. That does not leave time to work in between. Afterwards, she worked as corporate attorney and "Senior Director of Corporate Business Development".

Tl;dr: she is as lawyer as one can be a lawyer. Then she moved to business.

[–]MyLittleFedora -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

FUCKING NORMIES!!

[–]FSMhelpusall 65ポイント66ポイント  (15子コメント)

I stand by my theory of Yishan Wong being a whiner who's upset that a friend of him got shit on.

[–]VidiotGamerTrigger Warning: Misogynerd 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed. He's just throwing around shit at this point and hoping it sticks. He's not doing anyone, even Ellen, any favors.

[–]Danielle_S 41ポイント42ポイント  (8子コメント)

That's my working theory as well. fatpeoplehate wasn't the only sub that was banned in that first pass. Saying pao was reddits shield against sjws? guy is an obvious troll.

[–]unsafeideas 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

It is perfectly possible to be against mass ban of all reddits while simultaneously for some bans or making compromises with board over which and how many subs will be banned.

"Reddit board is actually more extreme" is not the same statement as "she is libertarian free speech advocate". It just means that she might be more moderate then others in reddit. Nor does it mean she is shied against sjws, it just means that she does not consider that particular extreme course of action reasonable right now.

[–]BeardRex 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Exactly, but he's painting her as a shield when she simply understood boiling a frog slowly is easier.

[–]unsafeideas 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Funny how people tend to hung on simple evilly evil vs goodly good dichotomy. She is root of all evil and unpopular decisions! Now she is gone and it turns out she is not root of all evil, therefore ... she surely must have been the true shield to guard us against real evil!

IMO, both interpretations are dumb as hell.

[–]BeardRex 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Interestingly i never really saw many people (especially on KiA) who didnt understand she was just the tip of the iceberg. I was also happy with how many I saw understood it was about making reddit monetizable.

[–]BeardRex 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It goes against everything she has ever said in interviews.

[–]MitsuXLulu 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

isnt it possible pao didnt ban em but followed that asshole alexis advice? and that it might happen though in this case i assume Pao is a idiot fall girl who was stupid enough to be used. Yishat is a asshole as per the norm and alexis is a dickweed. just normal shit ya know

[–]Danielle_S 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Many things in this world are possible. Without confirmation from reliable sources it's something we simply can't know. Barring that the only one I know for a fact had a hand in closing that large of a sub was the CEO. Yishan is a nobody now and I don't trust his word for shit.

[–]MitsuXLulu 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

True honestly though at this point i think voat should be a better option soon..

[–]elavers 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

He is just trying to push the narrative that this is all somehow the users fault when it is a result of massive incompetence and ineptitude on the corporate side of reddit, namely the executives and board.

[–]MrPejorative 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yes, this bit supports that theory.

What all the white-power racist-sexist neckbeards don't understand is that with her at the head of the company, the company would be immune to accusations of promoting sexism and racism: she is literally Silicon Valley's #1 Feminist Hero, so any "SJWs" would have a hard time attacking the company for intentionally creating a bastion (heh) of sexist/racist content.

He seems way too comfortable with the idea of installing a CEO with the right race and gender as insurance against those kinds of accusations. I'm not. That's manipulative, maybe even psychotic.

If you want insurance against those kinds of accusations you install a CEO who doesn't give a fuck about those accusations. The accusations will come no matter what you do, but if your users respect you, and you make it clear to them that you'll protect them no matter what their views are you've now got a fairly loose but large personal army on your side.

The race baiting media would learn the real meaning of sealioning.

[–]zerodeem 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

The boards that did the blackout were in support Pao.

Also it was the FPH purge that set off most of the anti Pao stuff.

[–]BeardRex 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The accusations were already there and it was only at the start of the cleanup efforts that she was praised.

[–]FSMhelpusall 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

All I read from that is that Buddy should probably start worrying, that level of servicing someone, even on the internet probably counts as cheating

[–]Leeham721 46ポイント47ポイント  (7子コメント)

/r/fatpeoplehate was banned for inciting off-site harassment, not discussing fat-shaming

Flat out lie once again. If posting pictures etc to other websites = inciting harassment (despite all the rules against it) then Cringe does the exact same thing. Atheism does. Videos does. When are they going to be banned?

Confirms finally that Tess Holliday was the reason it was banned:https://new3.fjcdn.com/pictures/Fat_a6fc49_5555254.jpg

[–]SpawnPointGuard 31ポイント32ポイント  (4子コメント)

Her words really carried a lot of weight.

[–]SwearWords 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

It was mighty big of her to stand up for others like she did.

[–]Grimlock2014 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

It was a huge step for people like her.

[–]joazm 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

The whole.proces felt like a marathon

[–]CaesarCzech 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Huuuuuuge step for Huuge ego.Seriously Yanks the schooling system of "you all are special perfect angelic beings" is turning upon you and its hungry old champs.

[–]MyLittleFedora 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

The irony of Tess Holliday lecturing people on "taking time to work on themselves"...

[–]a_cleaner_guy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well if she shits on reddit publicly and all her cleb friends won't do an IAMA for dosh, I lose money. Shutup neckbeards I'm trying to run a business.

[–]Meowsticgoesnya0018-1877-0794 3DS Friend code, remember to give me yours[S] 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

Can't be sure whether or not Yishan is telling the truth here, but still, it seems like a lot of the more awful decisions were by Knothing and the board.

[–]the_yamaraja 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

If this is true, it absolutely looks like Pao was setup to be someone that all of the hate would be directed unto and then once successful would step down. Her resisting this was likely a surprise to them if that's the case, I'd imagine they expected her to fully be on board with it and then met resistance from their fall guy.

[–]sinnodrak 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not even sure they realized the massive amount of hate they'd generate.

They seem pretty out of touch.

[–]thekindlyman555 27ポイント28ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm going to repeat what i wrote in the other thread discussing this:

If this is true, then why did she do such a TERRIBLE, AWFUL job of being transparent about this? And why would people mysteriously get shadowbanned merely for openly criticizing her? I think that Yishan may just be butthurt that his protege and choice of successor got booted out after being a pretty terrible advocate of free speech. If that's what she was going for, she failed miserably.

[–]unsafeideas 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

CEO is not supposed to publicly fight board through. Nor run public opinions fights against his own company, employees and board. CEO is supposed to work for board and voice disagreements out of public sight.

As for shadowbannings, it is perfectly possible to be against mass purge of subs while simultaneously being on board with other less extreme forms of censorship (including shadowbanning of people who hates, criticize you or you think are leading campaign against you).

[–]totlmstrBanned for triggering reddit's advertisers 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

If this is true, then why did she do such a TERRIBLE, AWFUL job of being transparent about this?

I'm thinking peer pressure. She wanted to be transparent, but the admins advised against it.

[–]thekindlyman555 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

But she was the CEO. If she was really a champion of free speech and the only one stopping Reddit from going full 1984, you'd think that she'd have expressed SOME fleeting interest in the value of the freedom she was supposedly championing.

As it stands now, all of the evidence that I've witnessed has stood contrary to Yishan's claims. And if she was being advised against supporting free speech by the admins, then how exactly was she defending free speech against their will?

[–]EpiquePhael 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

holy shit the amount of smug in one place.

[–]oldmanbees 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

From the beginning, this Yishan character has seemed an untrustworthy person with a pocket full of sour grapes.

None of these updates has improved my confidence in him.

[–]Danielle_S 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

check out the part where he also says the advent of gilding was to 'profit off of flame wars'.

Whether this guy is serious or completely full of shit, doesn't matter in the slightest. He's a huge piece of shit.

[–]ThisIsFrigglishThe 0.0065% 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Glass cliff" seems like a ridiculous myth, and then here's Yishan, cackling that he got someone pushed off of one.

[–]subhorizonKOBS Reject | Happy Camper 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bullshit. She would have said so weeks ago. Reddit is pulling the worst CYA I've ever seen, and anyone who falls for this is a fucking sheep.

[–]daimdeux 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Okay so we went from "A strong feminist leader sacked by mysoginists" to "a frail women victim of the board" in a matter of days.

I can't wait for the next spin on what happened!

[–]mracidglee16k get 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Interesting If True. I have no problem believing that the board would like the non-SRS hate groups to go away. Someone in the board meeting has probably already asked, "What value did /r/fatpeoplehat provide to Reddit?", where "value" means growth or ad $, and since the amount is negligible, that's it. The board isn't in it for free speech.

Also: once again the question of "if harassment is the problem, why not SRS?" is completely ignored.

[–]Halberd96 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

He is obviously lying. Nothing more needs to be said.

[–]Dohnought8765 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

Okay, so on Monday, he claimed that Ellen reported to Alexis and the board, and they were capable of completely ignoring her input.

Now he's claiming that Alexis, and the board, tried pressuring her into something, but they were unsuccessful.

Which according to his original story, they had the power to completely overrule her, making any attempts at resistance futile.

I wonder if he's simply buying her story at face value?

[–]unsafeideas 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Being able to ignore someone does not imply being able to pressure the very same person into action that person does not want to do. Plus, it is perfectly possible to win some internal fights against someone and loose other internal fights against the same person.

[–]Dohnought8765 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I fully understand the idea of workplace politics, thank you. My issue is that he has claimed two very different structures within the company of reddit.

[–]unsafeideas 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Reddit really seem to have messy org structure. Ohanian was both Paos boss and Paos underling.

[–]badpandasinc 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

All this tells me is that those in charge of reddit are incompetent petulant children.

He said, she said shit is just a way to people distracted from the things that matter:

  • reddit admins still suck at their jobs.
  • reddit management is still incompetent.
  • news media wants reddit to die and are scared that it may become yet another competitor of ad revenue

[–]ozymandias3505 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know who to believe now.

[–]Doc-ock-rokc 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I believe this about as far as I can throw it. It's just an excuse to paint up all these changes.

Pao is still on the board after all. She just isn't the CEO. I am betting the only reason Pao took on the sub for sub thing is to prevent stuff like SRS from going down. If of course any of that is true.

[–]Flyingfire 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I call BS.

woman marries a scammer, is a scammer AND a backstabber, former coworkers saying she kept a list of ppl who wronged her...

and now she's a hero of free speech? far more likely to be SJWs making stuff up to demoralize the opposition.

[–]jlyoung813 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So was the board also behind the censorship of any mention of her husband's illegal activity and her fraudulent lawsuit?

[–]sensual_rustleReminder: Hold your spaghetti 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

She is a mod of an SRS subreddit.

Yeah fucking right.

[–]Lvl99Shitlord 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Still dosent make her a good person, now I can just hate her for being someone who dosent engage people with transparency. Like many of the other admins in fact.

Why can't something just be what it is? Not everything has to become what Facebook is now. All these tech twats saw what Zuckerberg dig, and now every startup wants to go from fun, crazy, unpredictable and sweet environments to be the next Facebook overnight. Fuck me, going to voat.

[–]bunnymud 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This whole Joan of Arc crap is getting down right obvious and funny.

It can never change the facts of her actions as a person in business

[–]Rygar_the_Beast 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pao was a hero! Bring back Pao! BBP! BBP!

[–]EliteFourScott 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bullshit.