上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 219

[–]modifieddevice 231ポイント232ポイント  (90子コメント)

Neither Alexis nor I created reddit to be a bastion of free speech, but rather as a place where open and honest discussion can happen: These are very complicated issues, and we are putting a lot of thought into it. It’s something we’ve been thinking about for quite some time. We haven’t had the tools to enforce policy, but now we’re building those tools and reevaluating our policy.

essentially they are saying they don't give a fuck about free speech.

[–]cuntarsetits[S] 164ポイント165ポイント  (23子コメント)

Who knew that "open and honest discussion" and "free speech" were incompatible and contradictory concepts? ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[–]modifieddevice 29ポイント30ポイント  (1子コメント)

that is the joke isn't it? This is a dangerous concept and will spread beyond reddit,this is a wake up bell.feel like a mouse trying to stop a charging bull with a blade of grass?

[–]IMissEllenPao 30ポイント31ポイント  (19子コメント)

There are some topics that are forbidden right now, no matter how nicely you choose to discuss them. Casting the slightest doubt on slavery being the only cause of the Civil War will get you banned from /r/history in a heartbeat. Reddit has been policing ideas all along, they just start with the worst ones, and sliiiide down the slippery slope from there.

[–]stemgang 48ポイント49ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yeah but that's just shitty mods thought-policing a single subreddit. When the admins do it site-wide it is much more oppressive.

[–]IMissEllenPao 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

Their top mod controls 48 reddits, and their shittiest mod controls 137 reddits. If you think the admins have nothing to do with how reddits are run you are hopelessly naive.

[–]s0v3r1gn 20ポイント21ポイント  (10子コメント)

Wait, seriously? Bringing up the idea that slavery was only a small part of the cause of the civil war will get you banned from /r/history? I... What... So... Revisionism at work...

[–]VictoriaSwann 23ポイント24ポイント  (7子コメント)

In a modtalk leak, davidreiss666 (/r/history power mod) called that "history denial," a bannable offense, much like "science denial" will get you banned from /r/science.

[–]s0v3r1gn 22ポイント23ポイント  (5子コメント)

Banning of opposing view points is denial... There is no such thing as settled science, and history has multiple perspectives and its events all have .multiple instigators. This is really absurd...

[–]AnOnlineHandle 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

I used to be a creationist, please don't fail to recognize that denial for dishonest reasons does exist. I used to be one of them, I know it exists, and anybody who has spent time talking to people obsessed with various ideological persuasions will soon learn it exists. They are not there for honest conversation, they are there for anti-factual sabotage and ideology PR/damage control.

[–]s0v3r1gn 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

But you only ban the idiots if they get confrontational. Not because they don't want to believe in something.

[–]KhabaLox 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, if someone is repeatedly and continuing to post stuff about the Holocaust not happening, it seems a ban would be appropriate, just simply for spam reasons. And I'd be quicker to do that to a holocaust denier than to someone repeatedly posting about, say, US imperialism in the 20th century.

[–]TedTheGreek_Atheos 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away... Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a Government built upon it—when the "storm came and the wind blew, it fell."

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens at the Athenaeum in Savannah, Georgia, on March 21, 1861.

Please give me the "multiple perspective" that it wasn't over slavery when they literally officially said it was about slavery.

[–]WhatIsThisMoneyStuff 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It isn't an argument over whether or not it was about slavery.

It's an argument over whether or not slavery was the only issue.

Take this blackout as an example. The petition was to take out Pao as CEO. As soon as it happened, people admitted that the real issues were the admins being over bearing, a lack of tools, and censorship.

But if you only read the petition (similar to you quoting one guy), you wouldn't see that mindset at all. Pao represented a bigger issue, she was just the face of the controversy.

The argument over the civil war being about slavery is the same. Slavery was a poster child for states rights. Did the confederate states want to keep slavery and fight for it? Hells yes.

But the issue at the core was that the states had voted to keep slavery and the federal governed said no. The states didnt have the power to rule themselves like little countries anymore. Remember, at the time, people didnt really identify as "US Citizen" as much as they identified as "Tennessian" or "Virginian".

Slavery was a big deal, and sparked the civil war. But the reason it sparked the civil war was because of the states right issue that slavery put the spotlight on.

[–]WhatIsThisMoneyStuff 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Which is funny, because no one is denying slavery was a factor. There is no denial.

The discussion is over whether or not it was the main factor.

[–]totalgeekthe1st 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Who controls the present, controls the past.

[–]TedTheGreek_Atheos 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Saying slavery "was only a small part of the cause of the civil war" is revisionism.

It's in the articles of secession. It's in the Cornerstone Address. I don't know how much clearer the writings and speeches of the day can spell out out for you.

delegates at South Carolina’s secession convention adopted a “Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union.” It noted “an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery” and protested that Northern states had failed to “fulfill their constitutional obligations” by interfering with the return of fugitive slaves to bondage.

South Carolina was further upset that New York no longer allowed “slavery transit.” In the past, if Charleston gentry wanted to spend August in the Hamptons, they could bring their cook along. No longer — and South Carolina’s delegates were outraged. In addition, they objected that New England states let black men vote and tolerated abolitionist societies. According to South Carolina, states should not have the right to let their citizens assemble and speak freely when what they said threatened slavery.

So there goes the whole "states rights" theory.

“Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world,” proclaimed Mississippi in its own secession declaration, passed Jan. 9, 1861. “Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of the commerce of the earth. . . . A blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.”

Portions of Cornerstone Address :

The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away... Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a Government built upon it—when the "storm came and the wind blew, it fell."

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

Saying it wasn't mostly about slavery is revisionism and doesn't belong in a history sub.

[–]IamEbola 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey, you dropped this \

[–]chimpo470 64ポイント65ポイント  (31子コメント)

They don't any more. They did once, the top comment in that thread shows that, but now it's all about monetizing this website. As disgusting and vile as some subs might be I'd take a site where that can exist over a site where everything is covered in bubble wrap and only safe space approved ideas are spoon fed to you.

[–]KobeBryantReeves 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm sure you've seen this already, but in case you haven't.... A user dug up an old Forbes article where Alexis said the opposite thing using those exact words.

[–]mushybees 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Neither Alexis nor I created reddit to be a bastion of free speech.

and we have always been at war with Eurasia?

"We stand for free speech" - Yishan

Reddit is "a bastion of free speech on the world wide web" - Kn0thing

[–]spiral6 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

http://reddit.com/rules

THE FIRST LINE

The most hypocritical admins yet.

[–]kimchifart 23ポイント24ポイント  (8子コメント)

Open and honest discussion is nearly always code for "as long as you agree with the culturally liberal position"

[–]GregEvangelista 19ポイント20ポイント  (5子コメント)

I wouldn't call this radical political correctness mindset "liberal". I think this kind of falls outside the typical left-right spectrum. It's a very authoritarian implementation of traditionally socially liberal viewpoints.

[–]kimchifart 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

It has its roots in the left...radical feminism. Liberalism is a watered down version of that really. I agree the left is the new authoritarianism. Unfortunately liberalism has become that authoritarianism. Wait and see, it will only get worse.

[–]RupeThereItIs 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

left is the new authoritarianism.

Uh, both sides of the Left/Right spectrum love themselves some authoritarianism in equal parts.

[–]kimchifart -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're missing the important factor, which is: who's in charge now.

Yes I agree, but these days, the left is in charge of public discourse, primarily.

[–]RupeThereItIs 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

OK, yeah, sure! (note the heavy sarcasm).

There is not 'vast liberal media conspiracy' out there bud.

Especially in a day & age where you can cherry pick your news sources to fit your ideology.

[–]insomnia_shipping 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Or "as long as you agree with everything people are already saying".

[–]kimchifart -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, I'd definitely say this phrase has come from and has been misused by cultural liberalism...its their little phrase.

[–]insomnia_shipping 3ポイント4ポイント  (17子コメント)

Neither do redditors, unless it's "free" speech that agrees with everything they say.

[–]modifieddevice 13ポイント14ポイント  (16子コメント)

Freedom of speech means exactly that. This "your rights end where my feelings begin" wave that is washing over Reddit is enough for me to start weening myself from this distracting tit and find something a little more productive.

[–]televisionceo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

we have mods here, it was clear form the start

[–]fyreNL 96ポイント97ポイント  (24子コメント)

Pao or no Pao doesn't seem to matter apparently.

Edit: Check this out as well. Piece of analysis a user has made about the subject. After reading this i actually feel kinda bad for her.

[–]cfl1 50ポイント51ポイント  (2子コメント)

She's still a legal process abuser whose husband defrauded people's pension funds.

[–]Leafy81 17ポイント18ポイント  (4子コメント)

The more I hear about this whole sordid mess the more I seriously dislike /u/kn0thing.

I'm trying to reserve judgement here and not think poorly of him but damn it man, quit making it so difficult!

[–]GregEvangelista 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

No one is coming out of this looking good at the moment. That's for sure.

[–]trollocity -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Nobody but /u/yishan that is

[–]skintwo 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

Nope, he looks like an unprofessional vindictive jerk. Wonder how long he's been boning pao.

[–]trollocity 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You think he gives a fuck about looking professional here? He doesn't have to.

[–]lolthr0w 39ポイント40ポイント  (10子コメント)

Actually, it's possible they were trying to get Pao to do all these unpopular changes and absorb all the fallout, and she decided this shit wasn't worth it and decided to resign.

Honestly, looking at her recent reddit history, she seems pretty chill...

[–]_pulsar 17ポイント18ポイント  (3子コメント)

If you know that every comment of yours is going to be analyzed by millions of people, you'd have to be seriously stupid to not act chill.

I'll take the first hand accounts of those who worked with her for years over her clearly sanitized comments.

[–]PM_ME_UR_SRC_CODES 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you know that every comment of yours is going to be analyzed by millions of people, you'd have to be seriously stupid to not act chill.

Which makes Ohanian a grade-A moron. Just read his comments before and during the blackout, and cringe.

[–]chaosmosis 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll take the first hand accounts of those who worked with her for years over her clearly sanitized comments.

What are you talking about? Link?

[–]r0sinthrowaway 20ポイント21ポイント  (3子コメント)

There were a few unsupported theories on here the past few weeks about how the reddit administration was probably using her as a scapegoat to monetize reddit without losing its userbase. I think this backs that theory up very well.

[–]Ragamuffinn 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

The discrimination lawsuit and her husbands shady deals is what put the nail in the coffin for me, regardless of if she was a scapegoat or not

[–]EggheadDash 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's what made me actually feel bad for her. Lots of knee-jerk reactions in the last couple weeks. She's definitely not suited to be the CEO of reddit, but she doesn't sound like too terrible of a person.

[–]GoochKnee2000 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't. Even as a scapegoat, she was a horrible communicator, which, is a pretty big skill gap in a CEO.

She belongs in the back office.

[–]KevinGilbert 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

She cheated on her husband and kept a dossier on fellow employees. She is pretty much the worst person in the world.

[–]everyZig 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think you seriously underestimate the human potential for being a cunt

[–]Eustace_Savage 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

She lives up to the potential quite well. Plenty of time for her to do even worse.

[–]tatertatertatertot -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

There were calls for this sort of thing again and again, and it didn't happen except for 5 sites that were actively involved in harassing specific users -- very marginal changes.

Pao is out as CEO, and all of a sudden there's this statement?

Pao or no Pao seems to matter a GREAT deal. Pao was better.

[–]farhanshak 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

If they get rid of r/dessertporn I'm going to f'n lose it

[–]DoctorBlueBox1 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

For some reason I read that as desert and though, "Man that guy must love him some sand dunes!"

[–]kirkt 81ポイント82ポイント  (9子コメント)

I'm going to blatantly repost the comment I made on the announcement page.


Such nonsense.

Let's talk religion. I'm guessing most of the atheist Redditors are offended by stuff on the Christian subs. I'm guessing most Christians are offended by some stuff on the Atheist subs. The muslims are probably offended by everything on both. Solution? Ban religious talk on Reddit.

Let's talk politics. The libs are offended by conservative posts, the conservatives by the lib posts, and the anarchists by everything that allows governance. Solution? Ban politics.

Let's talk diet. The vegans are offended by the paleo posts, the celiacs are offended by the bread bakers, and the hunger-strikers won't have any of it. Solution? No food talk on Reddit.

First they came for the nazis. I didn't complain, because I wasn't a nazi. Then they came for the confederate flag wavers, and I didn't complain because I wasn't a southerner. Then they came for the gay-bashers, the fat-people-haters, and the peophiles, and I was glad to see them go. Then they threw out this group and that because they'd offended someone's sensibilities somehow. And by the time they came for me, it was no problem because I'd already migrated my subs' content to voat.

There is a dark underbelly to reddit. Sad, but essential. If content is chosen by the site's admins, this site will evaporate overnight. Reddit "being a bastion of free speech" is the ONLY FUCKING REASON that is has been so successful. When that goes, so do I.

[–]peopledontlikemypost 34ポイント35ポイント  (2子コメント)

Reddit "being a bastion of free speech" is the ONLY FUCKING REASON that is has been so successful. When that goes, so do I.

The free speech debate has been going on since /r/jailbait got the boot. FPH sealed it that these guys want a squeaky clean image and don't want to deal with the ugly side that comes with free speech.

[–]GregEvangelista 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

What once was a platform is now a business with VC capital. It was obvious as soon as that happened that this was on the way.

[–]DeadeyeDuncan 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I thought FPH was shut down because they started harassing imgur staff?

[–]smacksaw 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lots of people say "good riddance" to the subs they don't like, but they came here anyway and tolerated them while they were here.

Now that some of that stuff is gone, people are starting to leave.

It doesn't make sense. If the people who complained will still stay anyway, why get rid of anything? They were here before we got rid of the offencive shit.

But if the people you get rid of leave, you start crippling the site and making it look bad. You have created more turmoil than you did by letting those subs exist.

I know it's really unpopular to defend FPH, but it needed to be cleaned up and not removed. I don't think the admins understand the woven tapestry of the site. One of my favourite redditors who posts a lot of really intelligent stuff is the one who introduced me to /r/ImGoingToHellForThis

Unfortunately for the mods, people are complicated and hold many differing views, which is why it's least bad to try and accommodate them all.

reddit is like a village/town/city/whatever.

You can stick to your church, school and civic center. You can go to the pub or off-track betting site. You can go to the red light district and get a handy-dandy, buy porn at the sex shop, whatever. You can go to a grocery store, a BMW dealership, you name it.

Some people who go to church will also go the whorehouse. Or buy a BMW. Whatever. You can manage your growth and say "we don't want a ton of casinos" and make some rules, but you can't just start banning everything because some people who enjoyed those things and patronised the entire ecosystem will move.

This is what Alexis and Steve don't get, but Aaron did.

EDIT: I want to add something - the mods have a hard time dealing with bad users. Give them better tools. Don't just delete entire subreddits or ban entire types of communities. The mods run this site, give them the tools to police themselves. I don't think I made that point well enough.

[–]ztc0611 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

I keep on denying I should go to voat.

[–]GregEvangelista 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Been there since the initial bans. It's nice.

[–]zhegames 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just wish comments went more than three layers deep and content went from edge to edge.

Other than that, yes it's nice.

[–]Dark-tyranitar 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would gild you for this, but I'm not giving this fucking place any more of my money.

Well done, sir.

[–]rag3train 29ポイント30ポイント  (11子コメント)

So... We're fucked.

[–]kimchifart 38ポイント39ポイント  (10子コメント)

Nah just move. Just like Digg.

[–]GoochKnee2000 13ポイント14ポイント  (9子コメント)

Where? I like browsing and seeing cute cats next to questionable content, makes things exciting.

[–]kimchifart 23ポイント24ポイント  (8子コメント)

Voat

[–]TorbjornOskarsson 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Honestly, I don't really like Voat. The voting restrictions are annoying as fuck.

[–]laniokean|}---==E 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The voting restrictions are not a problem, get 20 comment contribution points and you can upvoat freely. Downvoating isn't really that important, you'll be able to do that when you get 100 CCP.

[–]acdcfanbill -4ポイント-3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Oh boo hoo, you can't downvoat right away, what a pain in the ass...

[–]SimplyPodly 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

No need to be such a dick dude, the man just didn't like the website.

[–]Razoride -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

What a wonderful community you must have over there...

[–]GoochKnee2000 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It sounds like that place is kinda broken?

[–]flippityfloppityfloo 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's up right now based on putting the URL into my browser.

[–]spiral6 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

If only it had better uptime...

[–]TheFinalDeception 57ポイント58ポイント  (11子コメント)

This is funny, everyone thought pao was hitler when it turns out the "censorship" was not coming from her after all. As many highly down voted people tried to say.

[–]DoctorExplosion 42ポイント43ポイント  (1子コメント)

We did it reddit!

[–]GregEvangelista 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

She wasn't a suitable CEO regardless.

[–]SWEDEN---YES 22ポイント23ポイント  (5子コメント)

Let's photoshop /u/spez 's face onto pictures of Hitler.

[–]UNCLE_ADOLF_1488BLAZ 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

[–]IMissEllenPao 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's Alexis, not Steve. DO ALL WHITE PEOPLE LOOK ALIKE TO YOU??

[–]SWEDEN---YES 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

TIL there's rule 34 of nazis

[–]humanmanguy 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

You just learned that today? Damn casuals.

[–]fyreNL 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You obviously forgot what Rule 34 means. Of course there's porn of Nazi's, duh.

[–]iSamurai 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some people, like me, just didn't want her there because of her history and her entanglement with her husband. I definitely didn't automatically assume everything happening recently was due to her, but I also hoped it was so that it would be a simple matter of just getting her out.

[–]devperez 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why does everyone think all of a sudden that she was on our side? She definitely was not on our side and absolutely wanted the subs closed. All she told the board is that if they did it now, there would be a shit storm that they couldn't control.

She didn't believe they could make the tools on the time schedule that the board wanted, so she quit.

But res assured, if she had the tools in place, she would've gone through with it in a heart beat.

[–]cole199910 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel pretty bad for what we did, but given the information we were given there is no way we could have known. I feel we should get these fuck heads out too but I think another would just come back in.

[–]markevens 26ポイント27ポイント  (28子コメント)

I understand what he is saying, but the question then becomes where is the line, who draws it, and are some subs going to able to skirt the rules and others not?

/r/PicsOfDeadKids /r/CoonTown /r/RapingWomen are likely the types of subs that he is talking about. If Reddit wanted to be a bastion of free speech they would stand up and fight for these sub's right to exist.

But like I said, where is the line drawn and who draws it? Are all gore subs going to be banned? Are all gore pictures going to be banned? What constitutes gore and when something is close to the definition, who decides whether it is or not?

What about racist stuff? If subs that support racism are banned, are posts in other subs that might be interpreted as racist banned? If the word "nigger" is banned, what about rap music that has the word in it? What about discussion about the word itself?

If there are lines that have consequences for crossing, we need specifics about them, not vague notions.

[–]Cruel-Anon-Thesis 41ポイント42ポイント  (6子コメント)

It'll be decided in the same way it always is: based on outrage culture and what's prominent.

FPH got cut because it was popular and leaking. Niggers got cut too, but later quietly recreated as Coontown.

Jailbait got cut because the media caught wind of it. Same story with Creepshots, except the latter got recreated as CandidFashionPolice. (A trick that didn't work for FPH, because they were obnoxious about it and didn't keep to themselves.)

If I had to guess? The next on the chopping block will be racism, holocaust denial and anti-feminism subs, depending on which sub gets targeted by outrage first. I'd expect /r/holocaust to be given to someone who isn't a denier. Coontown will be cut, with a blanket ban placed on racism-oriented subs. TheRedPill will get whacked eventually. MensRights is on a knife-edge. The various gore subs will likely be left alone, because they're not ideologically focused. Perhaps BeatingWomen or SexyAbortions will be cut on ideological grounds. I imagine a standard of consent will be introduced, but loosely enforced, for porn subs. No one wants to police those subs, but if someone complains enough about a sub or video it'll get culled. KotakuinAction and TumblrinAction will be safe, as the latter only takes potshots at the extreme left and the former tries to behave respectably enough. Trees will, of course, stay up. On the other hand, the darknet subs that discuss selling credit cards, or the shoplifting subs? Those may go, depending on the size and attention.

The content rules will be vague enough to permit the above. Something along the lines of: 1. Subreddits with a purpose of spreading hate about a gender, sexuality, race or other class of people will not be permitted. 2. Subreddits with a purpose of spreading nonconsensual pornography will not be permitted. 3. Subreddits with a purpose of carrying out or encouraging harassment will not be permitted. 4. Subreddits with a purpose of discussing intent to commit crimes will not be permitted. 5. Subreddits with a purpose of brigading other subreddits will not be permitted. 6. A consistent failure by mods to prevent the use of a subreddit for any above purpose will not be permitted.

Those will do the trick. Few will object to the principle of banning hate speech, nonconsensual porn, harassment, crimes or brigading. It's broad enough that any outrage-targeted sub can be cut, without bringing about an obligation to cut SRS or other extremist left wing subs, or popular, sanitised subs. It'll also be light enough that the various unsavoury subs will try to better police themselves, a la CandidFashionPolice, while still being cut if garnering enough outrage.

I'll check back in a month or so to see how close I was. On the off-chance I'm right on the money, I'll take my reward in the form of comment Karma and reddit silver.

[–]SimplyPodly 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Great write up. I actually really enjoyed reading it.

[–]devperez 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll buy you dinner if this ends up being on point.

[–]j1202 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

or the shoplifting subs?

What are they?

Sounds interesting...

[–]Thompson_S_Sweetback 8ポイント9ポイント  (12子コメント)

I'm torn. Free Speech is a great idea, but can be pretty repulsive in practice. If closing down Coontown results in its user base leaving reddit, I'll be happy for that. But if they just take their ugly opinions into other venues, I don't know how that would improve the site at all.

[–]Croswynd 16ポイント17ポイント  (8子コメント)

Why does it matter when you can choose which subreddits to subscribe to? If you don't like something, don't subscribe to it and it won't show up for you. Besides, subreddits like coontown aren't nearly popular enough to show up on even the front page of all most of the time.

I believe that everything should be permitted as long as it's not blatantly illegal like credit card theft or posting personal info, for example.

Hatred exists everywhere, and it will continue to do so regardless of whatever happens. It's best to just ignore it until it becomes a legal issue, like for FPH with their posting of information. The subreddit shouldn't have been banned, but the people involved should have been. The people were just an excuse to shut down a subreddit devoted to hate, which is in my opinion more disgusting than anything that goes down in that subreddit.

[–]insomnia_shipping 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

It matters because the people in the subreddits you don't want to participate in are also members of other subreddits, and the most harmful ones carry their tripe everywhere. You can choose not to go to the dark side, but then the dark side will come to you. If they actually kept to their communities and didn't harass people, it wouldn't be a problem. But that ship has sailed for years now.

[–]Croswynd 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's what downvotes are for, though, and it works more often than it doesn't. Racist and sexual harrassment comments are nearly always swamped with downvotes, as they should be. But I still say they have a right to make those comments anywhere they please.

[–]insomnia_shipping 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's what downvotes are for, though, and it works more often than it doesn't

That depends upon how we predicate whether it's working. If the goal is to bring the cream to the top, as they say, then it works. Sure thing. If the goal is to push the worst to the bottom, it doesn't work because the most aggressive communities dictate what is "the worst", whereas more peaceful people leave things be. If the goal is to foster conversation, then abuse of the vote is purely destructive and accomplishes nothing except to discourage participation unless you're just repeating someone's words back at them.

They don't have a right to comment where they please. These are public servers, and our right to free expression only protects us from government-enforced restrictions on speech. We would like to think of it like they have that right, myself included. Sure. But then they take it from others, and sympathy for them ends.

This is why we can't have nice things. There's always somebody who takes advantage and ruins it for everybody.

[–]Croswynd 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

On the other hand, it seems to be working from my perspective because I haven't had the potential issues you're using as hypotheticals here.

Not to sound demeaning, but I feel like the practical experience is more conclusive evidence than the potentialities you're talking about, at least in my perspective.

Perhaps it hasn't worked for you, and that's why you're arguing against my point?

Regardless, I would like to see reddit as a place where people can say what they want wherever they want except in cases where they post personal information or credit card stuff. Alexis said it was supposed to be a bastion of free speech, and I want that to be true. It can be.

Silencing other people just because you disagree with their opinions is worse than anything else in my perspective. I may hate what they say, but they should be able to say it.

I'm extremely against the politically correct trend that permeates the current culture. It's a terrible thing in my opinion.

[–]insomnia_shipping 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've seen this from all angles. My first account on this site was really popular, and I deleted that one out of curiosity following a debate about whether establishing social success paradoxically requires already having achieved it.

Seems it does. At least, that's how my experiment came out.

My second account almost seemed to take all the crap meant for the first one. I talked about the same things, from the same perspective, to the same quality, and took all the heat that I guess people wouldn't give to a popular account. That was a learning experience, and showed me that I had unknowingly been making it difficult for some groups to participate.

So, I deleted that one and tried joining in with the groups I had accidentally locked out of discussion. Mind you, these were people I typically disagree with, none too extreme either. But they taught me a lot, and while trying to be one of them, I got to see how they get treated.

I got curious and deleted that account. I made two in order to settle the question about whether diametrically opposed groups face equal opposition. Each account was used to explore, discuss, promote, and learn about each of the opposed worldviews. I found that, no, they do not face equal opposition. The less scruples a community has, the more dominant it is, with no regard to their intentions or ideas.

I deleted those accounts and tried to just use an account like normal. I ended up a moderator of a programming sub. I began development of a textbook for a game engine. I started getting PMs where people were threatening to murder the daughter I had not revealed that I have. I deleted that account and left the site for six months.

I tried another account, this time using Reddit solely as a fun hang out spot, with no serious discussion. By the seventh time a MRA cornered me in some thread that wasn't about anything related to their interests, to make it about them while their friends teamed up on me, I quit for another six months.

I'm back primarily for /r/starcitizen. Until this site becomes what it was before the hive mind became more a rule than an in-joke, I won't much debate. The only reason I'm participating in discussion about this is that I've seen how certain groups on this site abuse the platform to either control it or cause others grief for fun.

The bottom line is, if Reddit doesn't improve things for its moderators and user experience, it will die. Slowly, painfully, and with much rage and cringing. If the admins do improve things, then it will still be a painful transition, and some people who feel wronged by it won't actually be wrong at all for feeling that way. Since it's a catch-22, they might as well do what will benefit the platform in the long run.

This isn't a matter of political correctness. It's a matter of certain groups who take things way too far. It's the fact that the loudest, most verbally violent, most extreme, most sockpuppeted groups aren't the only ones who need a place to talk. There are other people in the world with them, and since they can't seem to grasp that on their own, it's going to take artificial intervention to correct it. It's ultimately not the admins' doing. The users who have been taking advantage to abuse the platform only have themselves to blame.

[–]IPutTheHotDogInTheBu 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Banning those subs will force those people to spew their vitriol on other subs even more, though.

[–]insomnia_shipping 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

To an extent, for sure. The bulk of that content will end up being moved to another site, but that won't stop people from discussing related topics. And it shouldn't really. I'll use FPH as an example.

The admins banned FPH, but they're not going to ban every person who utters something negative about obesity. With the bulk of the FPH content moved elsewhere, the bandwagon and brigade goes with it. The shadow that remains should be something closer to genuine discussion than harassment and public shaming.

So, we'll still see related topics come up. What we won't see as often is a set of trolls who hunt in teams to target individual users as an abuse force multiplier. And we shouldn't see the related topics occasionally take over swaths of /r/all.

[–]IPutTheHotDogInTheBu 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I get what you're saying. I'm just thinking that it might cause the hoards to revolt (in typical Reddit fashion) regardless. But I see where you're coming from - of course I'm just speculating. I don't think anyone can really anticipate what would happen if those subs did get banned. But somehow I don't think they'll go gentle into that good night.

[–]lolthr0w 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

From reddit's perspective, coontown's gotta go. It doesn't matter one bit how well they behave themselves according to reddit rules. After the recent shooting they have become the largest and most active white supremacy online community in the entire world. Reddit is one "shocking exposé" from becoming the new 4chan in terms of reputation. You can't get advertisers as a 4chan.

If the choice is banning subs like coontown or reddit having to sell the entire website to Facebook or something because they have no income stream, what would you want?

[–]Arch_0 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Taking away different opinions will just turn Reddit into an even bigger circle jerk.

[–]Thompson_S_Sweetback 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It all depends. You can't have a discussion about the holocaust with deniers. Some people sour a conversation, and if enough of them hijack it, the thoughtful folks will go elsewhere.

[–]BigDickRichie -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

I think the people who own the site get the draw the line.

That seems completely fair to me.

[–]SagamiSurprise 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why is nobody mentioning the fact that they're holding a group discussion to sign the rules?

[–]IMissEllenPao 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

When you burn down the barn because it's full of rats, don't complain when you get back the house and it's full of rats. :/

[–]jesusatan 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

This just further confirms Pao was simply a puppet. Which of course we all knew, just a sad day that reddit truly is continuing in the direction it has recently been going. Looks like we will just have to wait for the next viable option to become prevalent and move to there once it is established and capable of handling the traffic.

[–]enriceau 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

What's so wrong about freedom of speech? It seems to work in most free countries. Reddit is going to be a lot more like fucking north korea in the future.

[–]Yeahdudex 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, it might lead into full-scale censorship but i wont miss picsofdeadkids and coontown etc.

[–]Kinmuan-----€ 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be honest, I appreciate this more than Pao.

I know that many people are all 'Pao was a patsy, it doesn't matter, etc', but a concern I had was transparency. All these bullshit moves made, and I feel that most users saw it as trying to mainstream the site for monetization in the future.

While I may not like it, I understand it, from a corporate perspective.

But that's not what they told us, is it? Excuses, lies, or silence. That's what we got. A complete lack of transparency.

I much prefer 'I'm doing X Y Z, you're not going to like it, get fucked' then some bullshit passive aggressive nonsense, which is how Pao handled things with the community.

[–]tatertatertatertot 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

From yishan's post:

But... the most delicious part of this is that on at least two separate occasions, the board pressed /u/ekjp to outright ban ALL the hate subreddits in a sweeping purge. She resisted, knowing the community, claiming it would be a shitshow. Ellen isn't some "evil, manipulative, out-of-touch incompetent she-devil" as was often depicted. She was approved by the board and recommended by me because when I left, she was the only technology executive anywhere who had the chops and experience to manage a startup of this size, AND who understood what reddit was all about. As we can see from her post-resignation activity, she knows perfectly well how to fit in with the reddit community and is a normal, funny person - just like in real life - she simply didn't sit on reddit all day because she was busy with her day job.

GREAT JOB, BY GETTING ELLEN PAO FIRED YOU FOUND THE BOSTON BOMBERS ALL OVER AGAIN GUYS!

[–]j1202 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

a startup of this size

Is it still a startup when the company is over a decade old?

[–]devperez 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

She's not some saint who was working in the background for our free speech. She only didn't want to do it, yet, because of the backlash. She quit because the timeline for the tools they want to create aren't realistic.

But rest assured that if she had her tools in place, she would've banned every sub she didn't like. Yishan is trying to place in her some grand light, but it's not like that at all.

[–]Bookworm12k 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

GREAT JOB, BY GETTING ELLEN PAO FIRED YOU FOUND THE BOSTON BOMBERS ALL OVER AGAIN GUYS!

A very apt comparison indeed.

[–]ChronaMewX 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

So let's get them fired too. This is our community

[–]DoctorBlueBox1 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

It may be our community, but it's their company. In the end they are the ones with the ultimate power. If they don't care about our protests and our anger, we need to get the hell out of here and make a new community and support those who agree with our ideals of free speech

[–]DontRockTheGoat 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Unfortunately, we can't push just kick out everyone who's in charge just because we don't like them. If they really decide to crack down on freedom of speech, then all we can do is migrate to Voat.

[–]BlurryScreen 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sadly there are many in line to replace the fallen. The board members of reddit has escapegoats ready for slaughter as long as people are willing to slaughter them...

[–]Thompson_S_Sweetback 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

We''re like the Arab Spring. When we get really worked up, we have the power to end governments, but we never have the power to build them.

[–]SaviourMach 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Man. Maybe not 100% related to this post, but this website is starting to reek of the SJW scum I loathe so much on other sites. Sad to see.

[–]mcraamu 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shit, guys. I'm starting to feel like Ellen Pao wasn't so bad after all.

[–]pokocho1313 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well... Fuck it i'm going to Voat

[–]LinksMilkBottle 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Say bye bye to the Reddit we once knew.

[–]HiddenBehindMask 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

What about adding an option that technically keeps Reddit as a bastion of free speech? Simply, add an option that allows the users to hide whatever subreddit they don't like from /r/All and every other place on Reddit. This way the user have full control on what they want to see on their frontpage.

I don't think censoring content is the best way to be the 'homepage of the Internet'.

[–]DoctorBlueBox1 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's a good idea. I wonder if they have considered it or if we can get them to consider it

[–]HiddenBehindMask 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

How can we get them to consider it? (If they haven't already.)

[–]DoctorBlueBox1 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Hard to say. Admins aren't to reach to as an everyday user. We can try another petition or some other way that gets numbers on our side to get their attention

[–]HiddenBehindMask 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Honestly, the whole petition thing is starting to sound ridiculous, there have to be another way.. Maybe mention it in /u/spez upcoming AMA?

[–]DoctorBlueBox1 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

What are the chances that he'll see it? It's worth a try, though

[–]HiddenBehindMask 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think if you're early enough there's a big chance he might see it.

[–]hydrogenous 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This feature has already existed for ages. Its in the subreddit settings.

[–][deleted] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh man, time for another drama wave?

[–]Ethanol_Based_Life 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just want a straight forward, yes or no answer to one question. The answer will determine if I stay or not:

Doxxing, brigading, and direct harassment aside, if a person truly believes that fat people, the media, black people, white men, religions, or the gays are hurting the world or its people for reasons X, Y, and Z, will Reddit remain a platform where they can discuss their opinion, provide "evidence", and meet like minded people?

[–]FinalProspeckt 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Off to voat I guess.

[–]godiebiel 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just more nails for the coffin

[–]jse14 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

so petition to remove spez time?

[–]peopledontlikemypost 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why don't you start one. But make sure the description is a mature argument and not a tirade by a 12 year old like in Pao's petition.

[–]idontsupport 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

None of my posts are going through. I keep trying to post this pic

[–]Buckfost 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Where's the petition?

[–]wuzizname 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well it is their website. As long as the rules are consistent and applied across the board fairly - which I am doubtful of happening.

[–]ApeOver-----E 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well I could live with out the reddit that has dead nude girls

[–]cledenalio 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

r/bofs

Designed to gather as many quotes from Ohanian et al. to contradict the bullshit in this announcement.

[–]pragmaticbastard 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If SRS doesn't get banned, I'm gonna rage.

[–]ANBU_Black_0ps -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The reality is that free speech is a great idea/construct, however the reality of true free speech is something that most rational people most people don't want. Why? Because is you follow that train of thought to it's logical conclusion, the truest and purest expression of free speech in anarchy.

For example no where on reddit (at least that I'm aware of) allows explicit pictures of children to be posted. The reason being (outside of the fact that it is illegal) is that most rational people find that morally reprehensible. There is a reason why you typically can't go to work or out into polite society spewing racial slurs without suffering consequences, but that is also limiting free speech.

Here on reddit there are currently communities which I would venture a guess a lot of people would find offensive. Not because they go against their own moral code or worldviews but because they go against what we deem to be acceptable in society. Those havens of racism, sexism, bigotry, homophobia and hate are allowed to thrive under the anonymity that the internet and reddit brings. However if /r/coontown decided that they were going to throw a block party on the street where you lived, they had the proper permits to do so and were violating no laws most of us would still have a problem with that.

At the end of the day we cannot have anarchy. I realize the fear in saying well if they censor /r/coontown, next it's /r/mensrights, then it could be [insert favorite sub here]. I agree it is a slippery slope, however you cannot have complete anarchy and still expect the community that we all appreciate will continue to grow and thrive.

Edited: spelling and grammar.

[–]The_Moon_Is_On_Fire -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

as long as they get rid of subs like coontown, i agree w them