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[–]splattypus/r/outoftheloop 6ポイント7ポイント  (48子コメント)

I mean, surely you saw and heard about some of the ugliness with Ms. Pao. And hell, if I had a dollar for every time I was threatened with some action while I was modding any of the subs in the past (particularly the defaults and other high-traffic subs. If I didn't get one daily in /r/askreddit it was a surprise)....Well, I'd at least have a nicer computer to reddit with. By all means, pop in on some modmail convos from subs around reddit. You'll see.

Now I didn't take too many of the credibly, the anonymity provided by reddit currently provides me as much defense as it would help anyone with malicious intent offensively. Should any of that part change, though, problems could arise.

I have no idea what you've got in mind. There have been talks of making mod logs public, which I would discourage. Make it optional at least. Dilute it down to the very basics. My argument is always that the business is between the user and the mod, and not anybody else in the community. Putting mods entirely at the mercy of the pressures of the community will not end well. With that said, the community should be able to trust their mods, so I agree that some measure needs to be taken to ensure mod accountability. Exactly what that measure is is still debatable.

One suggestion I would have that may alleviate the flak individual mods receive for their actions, is to have a 'distinguished' mod comment disassociated from the users account. Have some function where hitting that 'distinguish' button turns the removal reason 'from /u/splattypus' to 'from /u/outoftheloop_moderator', without making me or the rest of the mod team go through the hassles of having separate accounts from modding.

Anyways, you have as much experience in this as I do, and more familiarity with the technical workings of it all. I'm curious to see what you have in mind. I just hope you'll consider that mods are routinely the focus of harassment and threats even when there's been no wrongdoing. The community loves their witch hunts, and moderators with their tiny amount of authority over the community are prime targets.

[–]seanhead -3ポイント-2ポイント  (47子コメント)

I 100% disagree. Modlogs should be forced public, and bad mods should be kickable by vote.

[–]Bardfinn 18ポイント19ポイント  (27子コメント)

If you make mods removable by vote, 4chan will dismantle Reddit overnight.

[–]GatorDontPlayThatSht 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bullshit, there are ways to conduct votes ecurely on the site, I mean if one shit sjw survey is good enough for the admins to implement rule changes then I'm sure they can come up with a competent moderator voting system. On another note you guys are terrified to lose your power and it's amazing.

[–]splattypus/r/outoftheloop 24ポイント25ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're welcome to run yours as transparently as you like. Encouraged even. In some cases it's just not feasible or practical.

Let me put it like this, back in my hayday modding the defaults, I'd do tens of thousands of mod actions a month. All of them were open to moderator review at any time if another mod was so inclined. Most of them were run of the mill, tedious, approve reports/remove flagrant rule violations/etc. But do you really think anyone in the community would have been bothered to actually look at the individual actions? Or do you think they'd just say 'Well look at all those actions, he must just be going nuts and removing shit on a whim!'? My own experience has led me to believe just that.

Users were encouraged to send a modmail any time they needed clarification for a removal, and did our very damnedest to provide that reason clearly and quickly.

Maybe you could make removing a post or comment require a removal reason. It would be tedious as shit and annoying as hell, but I suppose it would be fair. But then you're going to waste a lot of mods' time arguing with users over why calling someone a 'fag' in the sub is inappropriate and worthy of removal. And the bigger the sub, the bigger the mod team, the more mod actions, the more time spent arguing about them. Seems like a waste of time to me, personally.

You can't expect a mod team to operate effecitvely under that kind of scruitiny though. And hell, the rules are posted in the sidebar, and usually on the submit page, and usually in the wiki. I agree that it sucks to have to your post removed, but the onus is on the user to follow the rules in order to participate in the sub.

And I don't know where this notion came that every single mod action is of the greatest important, that every one needs to be inspected and verified as 'worthy'? The vast majority of mod actions are tedious and mind-numbingly boring and redundant. For your average mod who has even a modicum of professionalism and sense of responsibility, controversy will hardly ever arise. And when it does, it's with someone being illogical and unreasonable. Forcing mods to exhibit that level of disclosure is just going to waste their time dealing with more of those unreasonable poeple over every single issue and nonissue alike, they'll never have time to actually moderate their sub.

Speaking of which, is it not still their sub? Where's the threshold? What if I start using /r/splattypus to log various posts and tibits from around the web as I happen across them, as sort of journal if you will. And suppose I leave it open to subscribers because hey, maybe some of them have the same tastes as I do and would appreciate it. At what point does any of the subscribers have the authority to influence how I run my sub?

Whether it's a private sub or a single-modded public sub, or even a default that's been around for 10 years. The first mod elects mods to uphold his/her standards of running the sub. And they, in turn, bring on more mods who fit their ideals and principles. And so by the transitive property, even 10 generations down the line, the very newest mod is still operating under the approval and endorsement of the very first mod. And as long as that top mod is active on reddit and actively modding in that sub, they are the only ones who should have any influence over how any other mod in that sub operates.

[–]DBCrumpets/r/tumblrinaction 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

You don't mod any large subreddits, if you did you would be aware just how impractical this is.

[–]seanhead -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

You are right, I don't. I am an admin on a large forum though (200k users, 15k regular active, around 7 years), and I can say with 100% truth that I have never banned a user that wasn't a spammer. I've also never deleted a comment. If we're in a position where we need to it will get edited with a basic summary of what was there before and a moderator note of why it was removed. Though most of the time the original comment is left with just the note as a warning.

[–]GatorDontPlayThatSht 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lmao, they downvote you because you're right.

[–]Arve -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are right, I don't. I am an admin on a large forum though (200k users, 15k regular active, around 7 years)

That's not particularly large by Reddit standards. Even a "small" subreddit like /r/headphones has 200 000 unique users/month.

[–]GatorDontPlayThatSht 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This guy is totally correct, but the bad mods of reddit have joined together to try and stir up a bunch of shit to make their over zealous banning and censorship seem based on threats and harassment. What's weird is that if you look at any of the reported bans, or post removals, very rarely is threatening behavior the reason listed...

These mods are all full of shit, they're grasping at straws to keep their banning and removing powers.

[–]falsehood 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why not allow subreddits to go either way and let the community decide?

[–]seanhead -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's reasonable. So long as the community can decide, not the moderator(s)

[–]picflute/r/leagueoflegends 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

Okay then, if you want mod logs to be public then for transparency sake you must reveal your upvote/downvote page to ensure you aren't brigading any mod comments.

[–]GatorDontPlayThatSht 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

IF WE LOSE OUR POWERS THEN WE WANT TO SEE USER INFO!

[–]seanhead -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

Why? if the mods are doing things that people dislike, shouldn't voting be a reasonable response?

[–]picflute/r/leagueoflegends -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

You want our actions to be public, and it's only fair to the site to make sure you're actually using the voting tool properly. Downvoting is defined as

If you think it does not contribute to the subreddit it is posted in or is off-topic in a particular community, downvote it

Not on what you dislike. Transparency isn't a one-way road. You must sacrifice that level of privacy if you want us to sacrifice ours.

[–]GatorDontPlayThatSht 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Admin, and mod transparency are necessary because those positions are in place to serve reddit's users. Reddit's users don't hold any responsibility to be transparent because we're the consumers of the site itself. Are you dense?

[–]seanhead -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Again, totally disagree. Mods should be held to a higher standard than normal users. You want to mod, you have to deal with the extra hoops.

[–]GatorDontPlayThatSht 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

They don't want to hear this but it's true, the mods are supposed to be servants of the community, not haters of the community with itchy removal and ban finger like they currently are.

[–]picflute/r/leagueoflegends -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sorry but those standards aren't linear. If the community wants transparency it'll have to be mutual.

[–]seanhead -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

We just have to agree to disagree then.

[–]catcradle5 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think mod logs and deleted post content should be togglable, similar to 8chan. If a certain subreddit is becoming too ban-heavy, its subscribers can demand mod logs be enabled.

[–]seanhead -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This sounds reasonable to me.