上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 290

[–]JRutterbush 116ポイント117ポイント  (31子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

The issue isn't with cracking down, I don't think... it seems to be with the method. Passive-aggressive labels just don't seem very... professional, or mature. Completely ignoring the worry about possible abuse (which may or may not be warranted, I don't know you two well enough by far) there's the matter of decorum. Standing around mocking the people that are causing problems isn't going to do anything worthwhile, especially when they're still free to cause trouble with their posts.

Really, I think simple bans would do the job much better, and much more cleanly. Little red labels just seems to me like a schoolyard response. "Oh yeah? Well... you're a poopy-face!"

I don't doubt for a second that you guys mean well, I just don't think this is the way to go about things.

[–]Omegastar19 48ポイント49ポイント * (3子コメント)

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This. I can only shake my head as i read the wall of text of the OP. People were not complaining about whether something needed to be done, people were complaining about the METHOD that the mods decided to use.

So here we have a wall of text that does not address the issue at all. I don't understand how the mods could have entirely missed the point of the uproar.

And that last part? Wow, really nice. The mods are certainly making themselves popular by stating that they basically don't give a fuck about the opinions of other people; they are just going to do what they like. You know, why did they even bother writing this wall of text when they don't want to discuss it anyway?

Edit: In fact, why did SilentAgony name the thread "let's talk" when she expressively states in her wall of text that she has no intention of discussing the matter.

[–][deleted] 33ポイント34ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

That's how a teacher or parent would talk to you. 'Let's Talk' really means 'shut the fuck up and listen this is how it's done'.

[–]netcrusher88Spirit 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I get what you're saying, but I also get what SilentAgony is saying about alt accounts. It's stupid easy to make an account on reddit. Ban a troll and a dozen sockpuppets pop up. Label them and more often they'll go away. Or shape up, if they're just assholes.

Not always. And I do personally prefer outright bans. But I get the idea, and I've seen it work.

[–]JRutterbush 20ポイント21ポイント  (1子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

But labels won't deter multiple accounts any more than banning would. If a troll can just get a new account to avoid a ban, what's keeping them from just getting a new account to avoid a label as well?

The point here isn't what we're doing to them, it's how doing this to them makes us look. It makes us look like bratty kids who resort to name-calling instead of proper conflict-resolution. At the same time, it's no more effective than banning them. That's where I see a problem, not the idea of fighting back in the first place.

[–]SgtPsycho 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Agreed, it is not about the trolls, it is about us and the way we are perceived in the community, and how we perceive ourselves.

Great reply.

[–]SgtPsycho 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

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Agreed. Putting offensive labels on people and making them wear them as a mark of shame is like making the naughty kid wear a dunce hat or do degrading things.

It achieves nothing and does nothing to change their behaviour. In fact, and mentioned multiple times, if they are a troll, they are being fed attention and the limelight, which is exactly what they crave. It's totally, unambiguously counter-productive and worthless.

I advocate jacobheiss' suggestion but would be satisfied (unhappy, but I would accept) the text labels removed and the names coloured, or a small icon placed against known offenders as a warning.

[–]scoooot 5ポイント6ポイント  (15子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

mocking

I'm sorry. I just really don't see what the mods did as "mocking".

[–]JRutterbush 12ポイント13ポイント  (12子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Really? Because that's exactly what it is. It's placing a label on someone else so that the entire subreddit can see and react accordingly.

[–]scoooot 11ポイント12ポイント  (11子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I agree. They placed a label on someone so that the entire subreddit can see and react accordingly. They didn't Tease or laugh at in a scornful or contemptuous manner, which is what the word "mock" means.

[–]JRutterbush 11ポイント12ポイント  (10子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Problem is that a label like that serves no other purpose than mockery. It doesn't solve the problem, not in the slightest. The only real purpose it serves is to let us all know who we're "better than". If you want to stop a troll from trolling, ban them. Giving them a Troll Title won't do anything but make them happy.

[–]scoooot 5ポイント6ポイント  (9子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I disagree. I don't think it mocks him at all. I think it serves no other purpose than to warn people. I feel it solves the problem of being tricked into thinking he's an ally. It warns people to not feed him, and I don't care whether it makes him sad or happy.

[–]JRutterbush 6ポイント7ポイント  (8子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

If someone is trolling hard enough to warrant a response from the mods, then there's no way anybody thinks of them as an ally. If these labels are being applied to anybody but those who are obviously trolling or obviously hateful and bigoted, and nothing else... then they're being abused, and shouldn't be around at all.

And once again, how does "warning" people do anything better than simply banning the problem posters in the first place?

[–]scoooot -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

If someone is trolling hard enough to warrant a response from the mods, then there's no way anybody thinks of them as an ally.

I don't agree with this at all. A good concern troll will convince many people that he is not hostile toward them.

how does "warning" people do anything better than simply banning the problem posters in the first place?

Just now, I encountered a concern troll and was much quicker to deal with him in a healthy manner and ignore him, exactly because moonflower was labeled as a concern troll.

Read about what concern trolling is. It is a common tactic used to attack our community and our people. Matthew Shepherd's killers concern trolled him, to gain his trust.

[–]JRutterbush 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I don't agree with this at all. A good concern troll will convince many people that he is not hostile toward them.

So we're supposed to trust the judgement of two people when entire subreddits aren't convinced that there's a need for action? That's my point is that if people can't tell if there's a need for action or not, then taking action may well be unwarranted.

Just now, I encountered a concern troll and was much quicker to deal with him in a healthy manner and ignore him, exactly because moonflower was labeled as a concern troll.

Something that wouldn't have happened at all if a ban had been placed instead of a label. Again, what can a label do that a ban can't? Other than allow the labelled individual to continue causing trouble, despite the action taken against them.

[–]Feuilly 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Calling someone a concern troll is a good way to immediately discount his or her arguments and position.

One of the people who was labelled with flair was saying that it the community should be educating people instead of being immediately hostile, and I agree with that person. That isn't concern trolling. That is a different opinion, and I actually consider it to be pretty central to what this subreddit does.

I see a lot of people come here asking for advice, or saying being confused about their own sexuality. Or coming in being unsure how to understand a friend or a family member. Not to mention the fact that LGBT community pretty generally concerns itself with questioning people in the first place.

[–]scoooot -1ポイント0ポイント * (3子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Calling someone a concern troll is a good way to immediately discount his or her arguments and position.

I disagree. I think it's a poor way to do that. Also, that is not what happened in r/lgbt. The user identified as a concern troll was a concern troll.

I agree that it is possible for this to happen... but the solution is not to never talk about the concept of concern trolling, and to let concern trolls get away with it because we're too politically correct to say the phrase "concern troll". The solution is to do exactly what /r/lgbt mods did... they referenced sources as to the accuracy of the terms they were using, were transparent about their reasons, and ultimately listened to the community when it asked them for a different solution.

saying that it the community should be educating people instead of being immediately hostile, and I agree with that person. That isn't concern trolling.

I agree. That is not concern trolling.

However, if I say that you should be educating me right now, and if you aren't willing to then your unwillingness justifies my ignorance, then that is concern trolling.

[–]musclerunner 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Repeated referring to others as "cis gay" as derogatory was mocking in every use of the term. Mod has shown consistency of putting others down. It's sad, victimlike behavior.

[–]HolyMintnessAsk me about my herb garden 84ポイント85ポイント  (8子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Reddit has its problems. Big problems, in some cases, but I thought r/lgbt was safe. It was a place where I could be entertained and not feel so alone.

If you dislike the moderation/red flair that's fine, I'm pretty neutral about it myself, but the amount of people who have used it as an excuse to spout bile about transgendered people is horrific. There have been comments I've wanted to argue against but have been unable due to the fact that answering it would distress me too much. I've seen transphobic comments in the past and downvoted them and assumed they were the minority. I guess I was wrong.

I don't give a damn about flair. I do give a damn about trans people being belittled and people using this to spew hatred, as if they've been looking for a way to say these things before.

I'm cisgendered for god's sake and feel a little like crying. I have no fucking idea what it must be like for a transgendered person to read such insults.

Act like adults. Act like decent human beings.

This was my safe space, but I don't feel safe anymore.

[–][deleted] 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

You can come to /r/daww. If you're feeling down, it's a safe place for everyone to celebrate their love of kittens and red pandas.

It doesn't solve the problem. But it's the best virtual hug I can give you.

[–]HolyMintnessAsk me about my herb garden 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Aww thank you _^ I've obviously calmed down a lot now, and it's nice to know people care..

[–]shanoxilt 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

There are no safe spaces; there are only spaces which haven't yet revealed their danger.

[–]ebcubeHarmony 63ポイント64ポイント * (11子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

You want to play red flair? Let's fucking play red flair.

The reason they were red tagged is because we wanted them to be heard - to stay a part of the community and continue contributing.

I feel like I don't have to explain why that is bullshit.
http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/ojw9s/but_now_i_want_a_red_tag/c3hw28z

I'm not a transphobe.

I have the sudden urge to link to derailingfordummies.com as well. Must... resist... mental... retardation...
http://www.reddit.com/r/ShitRedditSays/comments/oiucs/rlgbt_starts_moderating_out_the_rampant/c3hnhpj

Okay well then let's just take your anecdotal evidence as the real data.

http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/ofy6e/i_bat_for_both_teams_but_sometimes_homosexuals/c3he5jv

So if I want to have children with a man, and my own gender, that makes me a homophobe?

Oh, fuck off.
http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/ofy6e/i_bat_for_both_teams_but_sometimes_homosexuals/c3h4dg8

I tire of being accused of twisting people's words.

To stop doing so would be a great step in the right direction. http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/ofy6e/i_bat_for_both_teams_but_sometimes_homosexuals/c3h4fal

Please refrain from harassing people here. Calling homosexuality a choice is homophobia.

http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/o9mfl/lgbt_redditors_i_need_your_help_with_a_family/c3fm5x8

Red flair is literally the Holocaust.

Nothing to do here.
http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/okmxo/this_is_why_i_will_be_unsubscribing_from_both/c3i2igx

The way that essentially identical posts are treated can vary wildly, depending on when it's posted, who sees it, information cascades, likely whether people are hungry or have just eaten

OMG SO TRANSPHOBIC
http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/oiib2/what_did_moonflower_actually_do/c3hlaq8

We're not interested in disrupting debate - we err on the side of caution and allow a whole lot of hatred and obvious provocation

Unless they want us to educate people. The worst crime in the world. You know what the nazis did? Community college. How dare them.
http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/oio0k/holy_shit_peeps_chill_out/c3hl23p

This is the sort of overt lying and misrepresentation that isn't getting that flair removed any time soon.

http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/oggdt/from_handsoff_to_active_defense_moderating_an/c3h7ddu

And now, my favourite one, the pal of the mods and mod over at /r/transgender:

  • Laurelai - Troll. Cisphobic. Heterophobic. Hateful. Overall asshole and liar. Actively trying to destroy /r/ainbow and to turn every other subreddit into /r/ShitRedditSays.

EDIT: http://www.reddit.com/r/LaurelaiWatch/

I'm going to mostly refrain from commenting on such bullshit and just link:

"white cismale circlejerk" http://www.reddit.com/r/transgender/comments/okm90/meta_regarding_changes_in_rlgbt/c3i76f0
http://www.reddit.com/r/transgender/comments/okm90/meta_regarding_changes_in_rlgbt/c3i6ssn
"not insulting him" (check the context) http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/ojcj7/the_red_branding_is_really_childish_and_makes_me/c3i198n
http://www.reddit.com/r/transgender/comments/okm90/meta_regarding_changes_in_rlgbt/c3i0emx
http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/ojcj7/the_red_branding_is_really_childish_and_makes_me/c3hzwvx
http://www.reddit.com/r/ainbow/comments/ojvfa/what_did_mlk_think_about_gay_people_cnn_belief/c3hzm2e
"i banned you and you called me a cunt" http://www.reddit.com/r/ainbow/comments/ojvfa/what_did_mlk_think_about_gay_people_cnn_belief/c3hzd17
"we really can't stand him [violentacrez]" http://www.reddit.com/r/SRSDiscussion/comments/okamc/right_im_out_rant/c3hz8vq
http://www.reddit.com/r/ainbow/comments/ojxc5/dear_rainbow/c3hyvwy
"i'll discuss anything with anyone in a calm manner" (quite a jewel) http://www.reddit.com/r/ainbow/comments/ojxc5/dear_rainbow/c3hz1ln
"i'm glad you're all leaving r/lgbt" http://www.reddit.com/r/ainbow/comments/ojvfa/what_did_mlk_think_about_gay_people_cnn_belief/c3hwieg
"most or your community are cissexist" http://www.reddit.com/r/ainbow/comments/ojjy7/500_readers_in_12_hours_time_for_an_introduction/c3hvtlm
"safe space for transphobia" (derp) http://www.reddit.com/r/ainbow/comments/ojjy7/500_readers_in_12_hours_time_for_an_introduction/c3hvhjr
"now fuck off" (in a calm manner) http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/ojcj7/the_red_branding_is_really_childish_and_makes_me/c3huob6
"each person that [...] unsubscribes from r/lgbt [...] is transphobic" (lolwat) http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/ojcj7/the_red_branding_is_really_childish_and_makes_me/c3hudqt
"you are full of shit" (in a calm manner) http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/ojs7p/and_the_truth_comes_out_all_the_complaints_about/c3hu7ld
"yet another transphobe from r/gaymers" http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/ojs7p/and_the_truth_comes_out_all_the_complaints_about/c3hu3q2
"mr straight white male" (not cisphobic, but...) http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/ojcj7/the_red_branding_is_really_childish_and_makes_me/c3htzcd
"cis people don't get a say" (not cisphobic, but...) http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/oj03i/can_you_guys_remove_the_red_flair_from_peoples/c3htm7i
"we get to decide if your (sic) included if we think you are a good enough ally" http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/oj03i/can_you_guys_remove_the_red_flair_from_peoples/c3htk0k
"i have a lot of friends who aren't cissexist bigots" http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/ojcj7/the_red_branding_is_really_childish_and_makes_me/c3htgsn
I don't have arguments, therefore answering with one word will make me seem intelligent! http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/oj03i/can_you_guys_remove_the_red_flair_from_peoples/c3hp3fo

Well, I got bored already. You can go on without me, I'm sure.

[–]Inequilibrium 18ポイント19ポイント * (3子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Oh man. I was sort of liking that post at first, then I got to Laurelai, and suddenly it became my favourite thing to come out of this entire debacle. /r/LaurelaiWatch is an amazing idea, I probably have a lot to contribute from what I've seen (and had said to me) in the last couple of days. So much hate, so much hypocrisy, so much outright lying (especially about /r/gaymers and /r/ainbow).

And now this kind of person is a mod. Someone who basically tells anyone who disagrees with her to "fuck off". I'd hoped that SA and rmuser would learn something from this and that things would start to get a little bit better here. But no, it looks like they're only going to get worse. The prophecy marches forward. I'm so fucking out of here.

Edit: Oh, are you banned from /r/transgender yet? I'm fairly sure Laurelai gives no-warning bans to anyone who implies that maybe /r/gaymers isn't actually transphobic, or that nobody can point to any evidence that they are.

Edit 2: HOLY SHIT. I think we have a winner. This is an r/transgender mod, folks.

[–]zahlman...wat 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Oh god it keeps getting worse.

Someone else points out:

You're transgender, and here you are belittling someone for having doubts about their gender identity?

Holy shit. That's...that's like, ten steps below Uncle Tom right there. That's a black person joining the KKK.

Which gets replied to thus:

No they didn't answer the question, in fact they avoided answering it, please learn english comprehension.

Riiiiight. After like three paragraphs of explanation of why Inequilibrium doesn't feel the classic cis/trans model applies, and another paragraph pointing out that it shouldn't matter anyway.

And then we get this classic:

You arent gay, you are bi. Im bi myself, you are speaking from a position of privilege. It is easier to be bi in the real world than it is to be gay.

Really? Really? So I guess all these people complaining about "bi erasure" are just whining and attention-whoring? Seriously, what the everloving fuck is this shit? (Also, lol at the part where she implicitly claims the same "privilege".)

[–]straight_ally 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Ho.ly.fuck.

I knew she was fucking bad, but that just blows my mind.

How much fucking NERVE do you have to have to tell somebody else what they are, and what they aren't, for them- then tell them how their gayness doesn't count?

[–]ebcubeHarmony 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Just so you know, yes, of course I'm banned from /r/transgender, though I'll admit I said something to her on the lines of "you have your head stuck too deep on your ass"

And, as a reminder, now she isn't just a /r/transgender mod. She is now a mod here. The fact that this comment thread is still alive should look like a miracle to you guys.

[–][deleted] 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

This is amazing, I wish I could up vote it more!

[–]EnterpriseE1701E 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I love you.

[–]ebcubeHarmony 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I get that a lot.

[–]avenirweiss 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

This needs more upboats than the Catalogue of Ships....

[–]TheAlou 51ポイント52ポイント  (14子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Red flair does absolutely nothing to stop transphobia from occurring. It is a horrible policy that should be removed and you both should apologize for instituting it. The fact that one person was already wrongfully given red flair out of three shows that you guys won't use this power well and it will only be abused.

[–][deleted] 39ポイント40ポイント  (9子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

The last thing you are getting from OP is an apology.

[–]mariesoleil 25ポイント26ポイント  (7子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Oh, I totally remember an apology for her Halloween costume, don't you?

oh, wait.

[–]Infuser 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

What was the Halloween costume incident?

[–]mariesoleil 13ポイント14ポイント  (4子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

SilentAgony made a self post on this subreddit a couple days after Halloween which included a pic of her Halloween costume. By her explanation she was dressed as a man trying to dress as a woman. She had very obvious beard shadow, toilet paper hanging out of her shirt as if she were stuffing, and poorly done makeup. Some people thought it was funny. Some people thought it was cool gender play. Some thought it was hurtful to trans women because most of us have a fear of looking like a "man in a dress" and that it was unclear that the costume was supposed to be a man in drag and not a trans woman.

[–]Infuser 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

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Very thorough. Thanks!

[–]mariesoleil 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

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I hope it was neutral enough!

[–]Infuser 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

It was, it was! Left, right, and center :p

[–]NoahTheDuke 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Oh jesus, I just remembered that debacle. Why am I still subscribed again?

[–]TheAlou -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I'm hoping they will see that a majority of the people don't like this policy and admit that they were wrong. Hopefully they'll listen to reason.

[–]Pit-trout 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Wait. How does

One was talked to and agreed not to do it again. His flair was removed.

amount to “wrongfully given red flair”?

I agree the flair is totally counterproductive, and the mods are being pointlessly stubborn about it. But we don’t need to twist their words to make this case.

[–]TheAlou 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/oj03i/can_you_guys_remove_the_red_flair_from_peoples/c3hr6el?context=3

Here's a post I made a day or so ago about the user who's flair was removed. He was given red flair for posts (according to rmuser, link within the post I linked here) debating with another user about whether it was our responsibility to educate other users. His red flair was something like "needs to be educated. (paraphrase)" It was a blatant misuse of the policy and shows that it won't be used in a good way. It wasn't a transphobic comment in any way whatsoever, it was a disagreement with a mod. I believe he was wrongfully given the red flair, which is why it was removed, because the mods eventually realized they wrongfully gave it to him as well. It's been abused once, it'll be abused again and should not be the policy of this subreddit.

[–]Pit-trout 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Ah, thanks. I hadn’t seen the background on that case; I take your point now.

[–]TheAlou 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

No worries, should have been a bit more descriptive. :)

[–]TwasIWhoShotJRScience, Technology, Engineering 26ポイント27ポイント  (14子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

So, the red flair..oh the red fucking flair. Am I the only one who isn't really concerned about the red flair? Someone..anyone..please tell me they too do not care that two people have red flair.

Kind of related topic, have you considered adding more mods? Two mods for a community of this size just seems to be a bit lacking.

[–]ebcubeHarmony 6ポイント7ポイント  (8子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Adding more mods? I hope not. Considering the trust circle of the current mods, the new mods would probably start the fourth reich.

[–][deleted] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (7子コメント)

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I love how telling gay men not to be overtly transphobic is the "fourth reich" now.

If that's your idea of the fourth reich, I think it sounds awesome.

[–]zahlman...wat 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

telling gay men not to be overtly transphobic

That's some damn strong rose-tint in your glasses IMO.

[–]ratta_tata_tatPretty Peacock 20ポイント21ポイント  (13子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I, as a gay transmale, appreciate all you have done to make this community more trans inclusive. I whole-heartedly do not believe in the red flair but it is your community in the end. People can throw a hissy fit but no matter what , in the end, it is the mods decision to do what they want to do.

[–]Inequilibrium 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Yep, and it's our decision to leave if we feel the environment here has become hostile and oppressive, to such an extent that we're stepping on eggshells whenever we comment in a thread where mods are present.

[–]adlibitum 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I respect the need to make this place more trans-friendly, but I have to say that I don't feel that this was an effective way of doing it.

I think that a lot of the issues that come up really could be minimized by encouraging people to read up before posting. I know that I would support going the way of r/fitness, and having the community engage in an "LGBT FAQ" to link above all posts (not just in the sidebar, no one reads that).

I realize that there's a "transgender 101" link in the sidebar, but I do think that a community project that could be linked to any time someone makes those kinds of trans-unfriendly posts would make r/lgbt feel more like a cohesive group, and less like rabble that needs to be restricted from above.

People on r/lgbt, generally, want to be educated, want to be sensitive. We're already kinda an ingroup. I think that if the response to subtle transphobia was consistently a link to the "transgender FAQ" section of something that we had put together as a community, people would just inherently be more likely to support the FAQ than the original comment, even if they wouldn't have recognized it as offensive in the first place.

[–]ButterflySammy 92ポイント93ポイント  (48子コメント)

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TL;DR - we don't care if you don't like the hostile environment created by branding people.

[–]ButterflySammy 20ポイント21ポイント * (15子コメント)

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I think this thread should be upvoted, whether you agree or not this thread deserves attention.

An upvote isn't a vote of support, it is a vote for people who don't browse the new queue knowing what the official response is.

[–][deleted] 18ポイント19ポイント  (2子コメント)

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By branding people for their hostile actions?

It's not the same as branding people for their identities.

[–]Pit-trout 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

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No, it’s not the same at all. But it is a counterproductive way of dealing with shitposters, for lots of reasons that other people have gone into in detail: it draws more attention to their posts; it gives them a victim card to play; it makes many good posters (not just the shitposters) feel afraid to express their opinions…

[–]J0lt 14ポイント15ポイント  (16子コメント)

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As opposed to the hostile environment created by noticible sections of the community acting towards trans issues in ways that would be wholly unacceptable here if it were towards LGB people.

[–]scoooot 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

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By the same tolken, couldn't your comment be characterized as you not caring if T's aren't given the same welcome here as LGB's?

I'm not saying this is the case. I am saying that your statement is just as unfair and false.

[–]Cythrosi 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

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I find that most communities begin to decline the moment the administrators of it begin going down the path that these two now are. Make me sad for /r/lgbt since this place was one of the places I would regularly check for new info about the LGBT community and learn more about it. Now it's just argumentative, dogmatic and downright hostile to any sort of opposing viewpoint. Even /r/politics is more civil than this.

[–]psychedelia88466 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Responding to hate and wilful ignorance with civility is no virtue; hostility to bigotry is no vice.

[–]Cythrosi -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

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The moderators appropriate response would be to remove the user causing the problems and end the issue. I'm not saying that the mods just have to straight up ignore *phobic posts. But they should not antagonize and behave like high schoolers as a response. It makes the issue worse.

The path the moderators are going down right now is one where they are very publicly pursuing a very negative and unpopular policy, even with good intentions. And by refusing to acknowledge or budge on the policy, they are going to set themselves up for a never ending public battle that will continue to persist in this community because they have now created a fractured community full of "us vs them mentality."

That never ends well.

[–][deleted] 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I'm with you- lets keep throwing trans people under the bus.

[–][deleted] 26ポイント27ポイント  (0子コメント)

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HEY, FRIEND! I'VE GOT TO SAY THAT I THINK THIS IS BACKWARD AND WRONG.

GOOD LUCK, THOUGH!

[–]ffmusicdj 31ポイント32ポイント * (28子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

This is going to get way downvoted : /

I spoke a few days ago about my experience of not going through MtF and the responses I got PMed to me from members of the community were grotesque, they were EXTREMELY UNSUPPORTIVE.

Whoever these trolls are, they have turned SPECIFICALLY THE PEOPLE OF REDDIT transgenders into really mean and bitter people who just don't like different opinions.

I sent the moderators complaint that I was being harassed by transgender people here they ignored it, which makes me believe that the LGBT moderators favor transgender, so much so that they will allow them to misbehave as a means of acceptance.

Branding people is only proof of this, whose to say that I won't be branded because I thought the current MtF procedure wasn't for me? All it will take is a few angry transgenders who dont agree with me, they'll say that I'm doing "harm" the the transgender community, make claims that they they know more about being a transgender than me, and I will be marked.

I support my LGB and my T in my community, but never at the cost of giving someone in the community censorship for accepted, never.

I advise the moderators to tell people to use the BLOCK feature. It works wonders, thats exactly what I ended up doing when those transgenders sent memessages, BRANDING PEOPLE IS NOT OKAY.

[–]SgtPsycho 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

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This is so offensive. You should be getting support and brotherhood here, we should be the last people to attack you, not the first.

To all you people who send cruel, bigoted and insulting private messages, fuck you*. If you have something to say, have the courage to say in the open where we can (and will) call you out on your bullshit.

*And this is not something I say lightly, or often.

[–]NoahTheDuke -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

transgenders

What the fuck? It's not a noun, it's an adjective.

but never at the cost of giving someone in the community censorship for accepted, never.

That doesn't make any sense.

[–]ffmusicdj 4ポイント5ポイント * (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Nope, not interested.

And the second part, the lgbt mods gave some people here the ability to pin "troll" on someone, anyone that they don't agree with, just so this person feels "safe", and thats not okay. You don't like me using that as a noun? Whatever, Hope that helps.

[–]Casey234 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

As I have said in my thread on the subject, I appreciate the efforts towards curbing transphobia on this sub reddit, I think the methods used were merely feeding the trolls rather than accomplishing anything constructive. The backlash against trans posters because of these actions is something that worries me. I've seen more than a few posts essentially blaming the trans posters, so I am entirely unsure if this will create a safer environment.

"Herpy derp, r/lgbt was fine until then uppity trannies!"

[–][deleted] 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Can you also address the T's of LGBT who are opposed to your policy of red flaring troublemakers?

[–][deleted] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I love the idea of more moderation. I do NOT think the red-flairing is appropriate for this subreddit. Instead I think more comments need to be deleted when they're deemed inappropriate, and yes more ban-hammering should happen. I also think bringing on more mods would be a great idea, as clearly 36,000+ redditors is a bit much to be wrangled by two mods (and they do need wrangling!).

I love this subreddit, and the direction you're trying to steer it in. I just think different methods need to be used to steer it.

[–]FollowerofLoki 39ポイント40ポイント  (23子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

As one of the people who was starting to feel increasingly uncomfortable in /r/lgbt because of the anti-trans sentiments, thank you.

[–]My_Faithful_Student 56ポイント57ポイント * (4子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

As a trans person the only people who have made me feel uncomfortable in /r/LGBT are Silentagony and rmuser.

[–]FollowerofLoki 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I'm not going to argue with you. I like what rmuser and Silentagony have done. That's all.

[–]My_Faithful_Student 22ポイント23ポイント  (2子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I wasn't trying to start an argument with you. I'm glad that you feel more comfortable in /r/LGBT but we should be trying to make everyone comfortable in LGBT and the new policies have made people (including trans people) uncomfortable posting here.

[–]dementedsnake~❤~ 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

EVERYONE! Stop politely disagreeing! Don't you know we're supposed to be attacking each other and throwing red paint everywhere? (shakes head) People!?

[–]spreague92 5ポイント6ポイント  (11子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I'm still trying to catch up on the Red Flair Debacle, so please bear with me.

My big concerns are that flair was sudden and without warning. Were moonflower and onetimer warned before the flair was added? I read the comment that led to moonflower's flair and it seemed fairly sudden (not saying I approve of/agree with the comment). If that was the case, then I will be worried that one of my comments might be misinterpreted and I will be flagged without having a chance to explain myself. Once the flair is there, people will remember it even if it is later removed. I don't want that stigma simply for being momentarily inarticulate.

[–]SilentAgonyLike Maddow, only Cuddlier[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (10子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Were moonflower and onetimer warned before the flair was added?

Repeatedly, ad nauseum, for weeks.

[–]spreague92 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Thanks for responding to my question :)

I meant a specific warning that you would enforce a punishment other than being banned (there's that momentary inarticulateness!). My big thing is that a person should only be subjected to punishments they should have reasonably known about.

Of course, my fears would be allayed somewhat if I knew the procedure for implementing the red flair from here on out. If I made a comment that could be interpreted as transphobic, would I receive a warning before being flaired? I'm somewhat okay with punishing malicious comments, but using red flair to punish ignorance seems excessive.

[–][deleted] 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

We will not back down.

So you don't want discussion. You just want to air your viewpoint and say goodbye to those who disagree with you.

Ya, you're definitely an angry overlord. Goodbye.

[–]Pixelpaws 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

We know some don't like it, but we're sticking to our guns.

In other words, you're acknowledging that the community strongly disagrees with you and that you don't care. Thanks for the honesty.

[–]CheeseyxPansexual Genderqueer/Cactus 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I think most of us can agree that the red flair was maybe not the best way to go about fighting transphobia in r/lgbt, but that we do in fact support the removal of transphobia?

[–]Feuilly 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Favouring educating ignorant people is not trolling.

When you make that claim, you're the one that sounds like the troll. Which is especially disturbing since you're supposed to be a mod.

[–]JohnAdamZiolkowski 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

... Did you purposely not include the Ts in this discussion?

[–]mckatze 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

If you really want to be effective at moderating and creating a safe space you need more than two moderators for 37,000 people. The two of you simply cannot keep up with the community on your own, and you also don't have effective representation across the queer alphabet. You have made decisions without the community's input, abruptly started moderating a relatively unmoderated subreddit and proven that you are rather insensitive yourselves in the past. I appreciate that everybody makes mistakes, but if you can't handle or understand what is appropriate for an lgbt community then you should not be tackling this on your own.

It's impossible for you to actually create a safe space when 1) You do not have the human power to accomplish this and 2) You don't have adequate perspective on what safe space even is.

tl;dr ADD MORE MODS

[–]ebcubeHarmony 15ポイント16ポイント  (13子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Stop targeting it as if it were LGB versus T when you know it isn't. Almost every LGB accepts, embraces and loves the T. I know I do. I'm not going to accept your whining victimistic bullshit, nor your attempts at targeting the whole LGB community of r/LGBT as transphobic. I don't understand why would anyone take more bullshit from the admins of this subreddit. You perfectly know that our issue is with your offensive attempts at thought policing.

You are a disgusting, horrible human being. Stop being brainwashed by the insane side of the r/transgender community and look at the beautiful, accepting community you are tearing apart. Please.

[–]--Rosewater-- 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

"Almost every LGB accepts, embraces and loves the T."

That's stretching it. LGB is in general more supportive than cis persons, but I wouldn't say that applies to "almost every" LGB.

[–][deleted] 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Thank you for taking a stand and refusing to be bullied by a few people who can't stand the idea that there's anyplace on the internet where they won't be able to spew their bullshit with impunity. I applaud you for sticking to your guns, and I think the red flair is a great compromise between total lack of moderation and instant bannings.

[–]SwissCanuck 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

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ok. bai.

[–]butyourenice 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

In this thread: every comment continues to piss and moan about this policy.

Whatever, SilentAgony I think you and I have butted heads but please don't misinterpret this as in bad faith: I agree with this policy. It will make me consider how my words can be interpreted without just stopping me from speaking altogether. If that helps even one person feel more comfortable here, good. I have no sympathy for the bigots, and I trust the mods' discretion.

[–]My_Faithful_Student 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

If that helps even one person feel more comfortable here, good.

It also makes many people (including trans people) feel uncomfortable, not good.

[–]Niea 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

And no one has explained why. I'm a bit confused as to why people have a problem with it. Especially if it gets to the point of making you feel uncomfortable.

[–]matriarchythe oncoming storm 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

It also makes many people (including trans people) feel uncomfortable, not good.

As a trans* person, I can only speak for myself. This is wonderful and has been a long time overdue. Bigots offended for being correctly labeled a bigot is not something to shed a tear over, and is in no way comparable to actual intolerance.

[–]dementedsnake~❤~ 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I don't really spend that much time here, but I wasn't aware anyone was making transgender guys and gals feel uncomfortable. I've only noticed the occasion polite curiosity and comradery. Maybe I just haven't paid enough attention?

[–]matriarchythe oncoming storm 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Maybe I just haven't paid enough attention?

You haven't.

[–]EggCoroner 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Abusive commenting is apparently fine as long as it is doled out by the T portion of the community. This place has been toxic for awhile and I am glad for a reason to unsubscribe to r/angry trans.

[–]majericArt 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I don't see how red flairing won't lead to alt accounts.

If our own is responsible for homophobic remarks then the community will deal with those remarks as a community.

Mods are given the powers that they were given in the form of banning for the worst offenders. Flairs were not intended to be used for public shaming. They were a simple curio for entertainment purposes.

The community can and should educate its own on the right thing to say and behave without the need to draw attention to a person unnecessarily.

I will not accept a community that brands people with scarlet letters.

[–]IBDPhoenix 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

I sincerely appreciate the efforts, and I think the goal is very worthwhile. Too often, /r/lgbt does not feel like a safe space for me. It is encouraging to see the attempt to change.

I hope that the people tearing down your attempts don't go so far as to stop you from achieving your goals and that a better solution can be found.

[–]SilentAgonyLike Maddow, only Cuddlier[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (5子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

Thank you for your support. Don't worry, rmuser and I are as pigheaded as it gets.

[–]IrishSchmirish 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

So, you won't back down on this when the vast majority of the sr disagrees with you? Are you reading your posts?? This is unbelievable.

[–]Cythrosi 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

are as pigheaded as it gets

I thought this was a quality we didn't pride ourselves in? Or is it only a bad quality when we disagree with the person?

A good leader should be able to step back, examine their decisions, and be willing to admit when they fuck up.

I am all for making this reddit a more open and safe place for transgender members as well as anyone else being marginalized in our communnity. But slapping a passive aggressive label on to try and ostracize the people in this reddit who are making it an unsafe place solves absolutely nothing. Not a goddamn thing. Those people are still here. They will still post the same shit. And they will still target the same people.

If there is a threat to the trans* members of this community, you ban them. And if they make a new account, you ban that one too when they start attacking members again. The argument "oh they'll just make a multi" is a piss poor excuse, since they can do the same bloody thing with an account you give the scarlet tag to. As a moderator, you have to be ever vigilant if you are going to adopt an aggressive moderation policy. That means heavily monitoring this reddit for these sorts of things, encouraging the use of the report function and the adding of additional moderators to the moderation team. Two people cannot watch the postings of over 30,000 people and expect to properly moderate out the transphopic, homophopic, biphobic, etc. post made here.

If you want to make this reddit a safer place for trans* redditors, you need to fucking step up and get serious. Lay out the rules. Enforce them via warnings and bans. And get a mod team capable of ensuring that everyone here is watched out for and can post and share and do so without passive aggressive, high school bullshit from the moderators.

[–]IBDPhoenix 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

ごめんなさい。これは既にアーカイブしてあり、もう投票はできません。

If you want to make this reddit a safer place for trans* redditors, you need to fucking step up and get serious.

This has pretty obviously already happened, whether or not you agree with their actions. The least we can do is keep the scope of our complaints within reality.

[–]Cythrosi -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

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This labeling is childish and antagonistic. It's not a serious way to combat any sort of issues this community is facing, since it doesn't do anything to actually deal with the problem users other than give them a badge of honor in most cases.

[–]IBDPhoenix 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

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Criticizing them for not getting serious, when that is in fact the very thing that brought this into question, is childish and antagonistic. It's not a serious way to combat any sort of disagreement, since it doesn't do anything to actually deal with the problem.

[–]Kiwikawi 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

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I disagree.

[–]NiftySwifty 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

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The red flair was, and is, an absolutely ridiculous notion. We have downvoting for a reason, for God's sake. Use it!

[–]KingOfSockPuppetsArt, Music, Writing 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

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Since I enjoy hearing myself speak, I might make a more thorough post later, but I am glad that the concerns of trans folk are being recognized. I'm still not sure how I feel about the branding (that it's only two people does somewhat mitigate my concerns), but it's something at least.

[–]gqbrielle 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

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no, thank you.

[–][deleted] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

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Thank you thank you thank you

[–]ziso 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

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A policy of pointing out and giving attention to members of the community should never be implemented. There are better ways of going about internet trolls and bullies. Perhaps if the general community was asked beforehand about new policies and what problems we were having a better solution could have come about that everyone was happy with. I know from the reaction we have received from the community that this red flair business would have been shot down as wrong and distracting.

Transgender people are the most misunderstood out of the lgbtqs and whatever else people label themselves as. I'm sure most of the people in LGBT want everyone to feel welcome but yes there is always going to be some people who don't or disagree.

[–]KazakiLionRainbow Mane 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

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Working off of the hypothesis that rmuser and SilentAgony are completely right, and the red flair is exactly what /r/LGBT needs in order to curtail it's rampent transphobia... I'm a bit curious about what their priorities are.

Currently we have a significant portion of our community upset with them, to the point that splinter subreddits are cropping up and dividing our community against itself. The community as a whole generally agrees that moderation is an important thing, just like SilentAgony closed her post with, but they disagree with the current methods.

In this situation, wouldn't it be logical for the community leaders to back down from their controversial viewpoint, despite the fact that they are right? It seems to me like the important thing right now should be keeping the community together, not proving which side is "right".

Am I off base somewhere in this opinion? I haven't been keeping up fully with the red flair events, so I'd love someone to point out the flaw in my logic.

[–]cammycamHarmony 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

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Wait... this red flair controversy is over 3 people? 3 people, one of which was removed? 2 people are burdened with the scarlet flair? 2 people have the scarlet flair, but can still post freely, just their flair is red????

Does this mean we request colored flairs? I would love a purple flair, but I don't have anything to put in there yet, and the whole concept of messaging a mod to have it manually added seems somewhat time consuming and disrespectful of the mod's time.

[–]catamorphism 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

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"I think transphobia is bad, I just think every way that a trans person suggests addressing transphobia is wrong and shouldn't be done. Offending a cis person is worse than hurting a trans person." -- every cis person

[–]unicornmuffinScience, Technology, Engineering 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

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EnterpriseE1701E has spoken so well, that I am going to reproduce a prose verbatim:

Yes, but ignoring the excrement doesn't make it go away. "Safe-spaces" are all well and good, but they are precisely that-- safe. Politics and life are both not safe, and should not be treated as such.

Furthermore, if you can't handle the discussions that come along with a political engagement, especially those dealing with pragmatism and praxis, I don't know what place you have in a political movement. Fundamentally, some of the red flair was justified. I think you'd be foolish to deny that. It isn't the case, however, that we can dismiss education as a viable strategy in a larger political goal. I find that assertion absurd.

You're quite right, that it isn't our obligation and it is a poor expectation for it. It is unfair, and it is shitty on the part of the ignorant. Sadly, life isn't fair and educating the ignorant is an excellent way to correct injustices. If it was truly the case that there was no benefit to educating those who ask silly questions, there would be no debate over whether or not it was reasonable.

However, the fact that this is an explicitly pragmatic and political problem divorces it from the realm of abstract morality-- what myself and fellow queers are entitled to. We should rather be concerned with the best way to achieve a better existence. Educating the ignorant is one step in that direction.

My heart wants to agree with the decision taken by the Mod, but what EnterpriseE1701E says hits the mark. That is the right attitude.

[–]Light-of-Aiur -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

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I want to say that, after everything I've read about these red-flaired individuals, you two mods made the right decision.

Reading this post literally made me come to tears. You are acting how you think is fit, and I agree with you. There is absolutely no room in an inclusive group for trans-phobia, trans-hating terminology, or concern trolling.

I think that, after also reading about how two of the three red-flaired members of this group were banned, this is still an inclusive community of LGBT people who want to live their lives and discuss what is relevant to them.

Please continue the wonderful job you do. You are a wonderful individual, and your modding guidelines are solidly inclusive and open minded, IMHO.

[–]avitesse 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

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Just an FYI in my RES you are tagged with "is great" and I think the reason why is pretty clear

(it's because you are great)

[–]DannyFathom 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

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what does cisnormative and cis mean?

[–]J0lt 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

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Cis is the opposite of trans. Cisnormative is like heteronormative, but wrt gender instead of sexual orientation.