11
12

Sticky for 7/13/2015 (self.badeconomics)

wumbotarianI want to be the Walrasian Auctioneer when I grow up[M] が 投稿 - stickied post

New sticky. Automod won't drop one until tomorrow. Ask questions like "Is mayonnaise badeconomics?" or whatever.

全 56 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]Jericho_Hill"OFFICIALLY" Retarded Economist 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

Final Proposal Submitted. Let the committee upvotes begin!

[–]commentsrusBring maymayday back! 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Upvoted for using rainfall as an instrument.

[–]wumbotarianI want to be the Walrasian Auctioneer when I grow up[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not a river?

[–]Jericho_Hill"OFFICIALLY" Retarded Economist 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ha! Well, I did do that!

[–]SoyElGoddamnBatmanI don't really know anything, honestly 6ポイント7ポイント  (20子コメント)

Name one (or more, if you want) of the following:

  1. A tax that should be raised

  2. A tax that should be lowered

  3. A tax that should remaind about the same

  4. A new tax

  5. A tax that should be abolished

[–]Jericho_Hill"OFFICIALLY" Retarded Economist 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

  1. Gas tax. We're clearly failing to price this right to pay for road maintenance, which is supposedly the point.

  2. Corporate Income tax (Its essentially double taxation)

  3. Income

  4. Carbon Tax

  5. Property taxes should not fund local schools.

[–]irondeepbicycleI got 99 problems but technological unemployment ain't one 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

  1. Gas tax. We're clearly failing to price this right to pay for road maintenance, which is supposedly the point.

not to mention, we don't even try to use the gas tax to address other externalities caused by driving, like noise pollution, congestion, traffic fatalities, etc.

[–]Jericho_Hill"OFFICIALLY" Retarded Economist 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

dude. externalities don't real. prax it out bro.

I wish I got a tax writeoff or something for riding an eco-friendlier scooter/motorcycle rather than an SUV into work every day.

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 5ポイント6ポイント  (9子コメント)

/u/jericho_hill is totally stealing my answers.

Increase the gax tax.

Reduce all taxes on investment income. As a first step, only tax investment income in excess of the risk-free rate of return. As a second, corporate income (dividends and capital gains) should be taxed at the corporate or individual level but not both.

The income tax rates are probably not terribly bad, though the rest of the income tax code is a disaster zone.

A general tax on carbon emissions would be the first-best new tax, but is a little boring. Nothing else comes to mind immediately, but I'll try to think of something clever to edit in later.

I'll be contrarian and advocate for an abolishment of alcohol and cigarette taxes. They disproportionately burden the poor. On the opposite end of the spectrum, eliminate the AMT and adjust the rest of the tax code accordingly.

The current frontier of tax research (dare I say, the science of tax policy) is in the Mirrlees Review; a summary is here.

In general, we should expand the EITC, expand the taxation of carbon emissions, phase out the mortgage and health insurance deductions, move towards a consumption tax base, and think hard about inheritance taxes. We need to focus more on the tax base than the rate structure.

[–]Jericho_Hill"OFFICIALLY" Retarded Economist 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I am actually /u/integralds's alt.

The point on cig, alcohol tax is a solid point. I had not considered that.

[–]say_wot_againI guess I mod /r/goodeconomics now? 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Everyone on reddit is commentsrus.

[–]SoyElGoddamnBatmanI don't really know anything, honestly 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Thanks for the link. I've added it to the bunch of other links people show me on this sub that I will read on a rainy day.

So a few people now have said they want an increase in the gas tax. Jericho_Hill says the current rate fails "to pay for road maintenance, which is supposedly the point." Irondeepbicycle says that "we don't even try to use the gas tax to address other externalities caused by driving, like noise pollution, congestion, traffic fatalities, etc." I imagine the climate is another factor.

On the other hand, I can't imagine this is good for the lower-middle to middle class consumers, who need to work and like to drive other places, which a higher gas tax would discourage. Perhaps this tax is regressive?

Are there other factors I'm not taking into account?

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

There are a couple of ways to tackle the regressivity issue.

First, one could bite the bullet. Gas taxes are probably regressive in the short run, but the benefits of less carbon in the air are worth it.

Second, one could make the argument that this is a tax shift, not a tax increase: keep revenue the same, but shift taxes towards "bads" and away from "goods." This tack would increase the gas tax and simultaneously decrease other taxes in an offsetting manner, presumably in a manner tilted towards the poor. Maybe pair the increased gax tax with an increased EITC.

Third, regardless of (1) and (2), the long-run elasticity of everything with respect to gas prices is higher than the short-run elasticity. Over time, people would choose to live closer to where they work, they'd purchase more efficient cars, they'd take more public transit, etc. These behavioral responses would reduce the tax's regressivity.

I do think that a lot of "raise the gax tax" advocates are living in coastal urban areas and don't really appreciate the need for a car in many parts of the South and Midwest. There is no functional public transit. You can't just move closer to where you work; cities in the South are not walkable, and the sort of behavioral responses that would make them walkable operate on the scale of decades. So it's important to think about distributional effects, as you are.

[–]besttrousers"Then again, I have pegged you for a Neoclassical/Austrian." 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I do think that a lot of "raise the gax tax" advocates are living in coastal urban areas and don't really appreciate the need for a car in many parts of the South and Midwest. There is no functional public transit.

Just use uber, lol.

[–]SoyElGoddamnBatmanI don't really know anything, honestly 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Solid points. Thanks for the context.

[–]MildlyEoghanDon't Prax Me, Bro! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did a review of fuel taxation last year (based on an IFS briefing paper) the TLDR is that fuel taxation is not regressive in general, as poorer households own fewer cars. It's only very slightly regressive when you only consider car owning households.

Obvious health warning: What is true in the UK may not hold everywhere.

[–]geerussell 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are there other factors I'm not taking into account?

Heavy trucks pulverize roads and in regions where the climate involves lots of freeze/thaw cycles this happens in fairly short order. If weight limits are too high, you can tax the crap out of gasoline and still find yourself falling behind.

[–]irondeepbicycleI got 99 problems but technological unemployment ain't one 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In terms of alcohol and cigarette taxes, wouldn't an EITC work better for reducing tax burden? There are legitimate externality concerns with alcohol and cigarettes, and it seems better to me to price those correctly, and handle redistribution with an NIT or something.

[–]commentsrusBring maymayday back! 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

As someone who doesn't specialize in taxes (or anything, for that matter):

A tax that should be raised

Probably the gas tax? Federal and/or state, idk.

A tax that should be lowered

Does a negative income tax for low-earners count as a reduction of the income tax?

A tax that should remaind about the same

The art tax in Portland, Oregon. It's current level of $35 per year achieves the optimal level of annoyance and tediousness.

A new tax

The CommentsRUs Flat Tax for American Prosperity, which takes a penny from each person in the U.S. and gives it to me. If you're a m'lady you may be eligible for a partial refund. ;)

But on a less serious note, a carbon tax.

A tax that should be abolished

The government. laugh track ZIMBABWE!!!!1

[–]say_wot_againI guess I mod /r/goodeconomics now? 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Presented in decreasing order of confidence:

  1. Consumption tax/VAT

  2. Corporate income tax

  3. Estate tax

  4. Capital gains tax

? Personal income tax

? Payroll tax

? Property taxes

[–]SoyElGoddamnBatmanI don't really know anything, honestly 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Gotta give it the old backslash. I read the source though.

[–]say_wot_againI guess I mod /r/goodeconomics now? 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah

[–]irondeepbicycleI got 99 problems but technological unemployment ain't one 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

  1. Gas tax.

  2. Cap gains tax.

  3. Liquor tax?

  4. LVT.

  5. Corporate income tax.

[–]alexhoyerhoard plywood now for our ANCAP overlords 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

  1. Cap and trade count?
  2. Corporate income tax
  3. Sales tax Import duties (close enough to zero)
  4. Land value tax
  5. Capital taxes

[–]Meta-Cognition"Neoclassical Bernankean shill" 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

  1. VAT.

  2. Income tax.

  3. Environmental taxes.

  4. Land value tax, at least in urban areas.

  5. Corporation tax.

EDIT: Note that I'm British. I'd be arguing for more environmental taxes were I American.

[–]PonderayFollows an AR(1) process 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

Macro qual tomorrow. Hoping for a good realization of my productivity process.

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I will sacrifice a sheep on the alter of Modern Macro tonight for you.

I bless you in the name of the Friedman, and the Lucas, and the Holy Prescott, may your agents be representative and your problems be concave-convex. Go forth and maximize in an appropriately discounted manner.

[–]Jericho_Hill"OFFICIALLY" Retarded Economist 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

You'll do fine. Just remember that if you're stumped, so are all your classmates except that one overachiever.

[–]besttrousers"Then again, I have pegged you for a Neoclassical/Austrian." 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ugh. Hate that guy.

[–]Jericho_Hill"OFFICIALLY" Retarded Economist 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

that guy is probably integral.

[–]wumbotarianI want to be the Walrasian Auctioneer when I grow up[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good luck buddy! May the Macro Gods be with you.

[–]Redug345cancer is also a "growth miracle" 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Is mayonnaise badeconomics?

EDIT:

Alternatively, is mayonnaise a strong instrument?

[–]TychoTiberiusKeynes never died, he just changed his name to Satoshi. 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I hear that Volcker preferred mayo and Bernanke preferred miracle whip. You be the judge.

[–]say_wot_againI guess I mod /r/goodeconomics now? 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

So miracle whip is as hyperinflationary as it is fattening?

[–]geerussell 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

2nd alt: How much oil can one egg stabilize before the whole emulsion hyperseparates?

[–]Meta-Cognition"Neoclassical Bernankean shill" 3ポイント4ポイント  (19子コメント)

Asked in r/AskSocialScience, but since it's full of Marxists I'll ask it here and hopefully get some balance: Where did Marx fuck up? Where does Marxian theory not coalesce with the evidence?

I also asked this in the last sticky, but unfortunately got no response: Bernanke's global savings glut, yay or nay?

[–]alexhoyerhoard plywood now for our ANCAP overlords 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

There are four areas where I'd say Marx royally fucked it up. First, in the Manifesto he predicted capitalism would naturally preclude the formation of a middle class (capitalists and serfs alone). Second, Marx failed to predict the rise of nationalism as a means of pitting the proletariat against one another (he couldn't really explain why the proletariat engaged in WW1). Third, the Labor Theory of Value has been refuted by marginalism as a theory of price. Fourth, perhaps most importantly, Marx didn't use enough math to make keep his ideas straight.

[–]Tiakoneo-mercantilist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Second, Marx failed to predict the rise of nationalism as a means of pitting the proletariat against one another

Huh? He discusses this explicitly (I think in Capital?) as an example of false consciousness.

[–]say_wot_againI guess I mod /r/goodeconomics now? 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Third, the Labor Theory of Value has been refuted by marginalism as a theory of price.

But Marx's LTV was a theory about the productive capacity of the economy (ie potential GDP) as a function of the amount of socially necessary labor (including stored labor in capital). Its terminology was used during the Cambridge Capital Controversy to get the neoclassicals and Post Keynesians on the same page as to what capital is.

The LTV you're thinking of, which was a theory of price and was replaced by marginalism, was the Ricardo Labor Theory of Value, not Marx's.

Fourth, perhaps most importantly, Marx didn't use enough math to make keep his ideas straight.

Did anyone at the time?

[–]besttrousers"Then again, I have pegged you for a Neoclassical/Austrian." 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Here's my standard answer: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskSocialScience/comments/23ghhd/ok_so_i_recently_found_out_what_socialism/cgx7sl1?context=3

[–]no_malis 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

So basically asymmetric information and rationality driven by self-interest means we don't play well with others? I like it! Your explanation reminds me of Williamson on market and non-market deals :-)

[–]besttrousers"Then again, I have pegged you for a Neoclassical/Austrian." 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah. Marx was missing a theory of the firm.

[–]Jericho_Hill"OFFICIALLY" Retarded Economist 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

We're full of Marxists? Damn. I'll brb, gotta moderate! :P

[–]besttrousers"Then again, I have pegged you for a Neoclassical/Austrian." 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Whenever Marx comes up, we havea bunch of sociologist socialists who write cogent, thought through answers, and a bunch of libertarian economists who write "lol, Marx."

[–]commentsrusBring maymayday back! 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

My comments:

  1. I have a question. What does anyone think about Lawrence Kotlikoff running for President in 2012? What do you think of his platform? I don't mean to run these "What do economists think is the best presidential platform" questions into the ground, but this was literally an economist running for president, so I thought you guys might care.

  2. I'm pretty sure /u/besttrousers is pulling the top post from /r/econpapers each week for the new AotW on /r/economics, so maybe consider submitting shit there, too.

  3. Working on my response to /u/cutlasss about the economics of prostitution legalization/illegalization. Don't worry! I just needed to find the time to crack open my old thesis and papers and get back into the swing of things. My thesis wasn't on legalization per se, but since that's the issue with the most lit (the econ of prostitution lit is surprisingly scarce) I had to cover it, as well.

  4. In the meantime, please come to /r/economichistory so that my existence is validated. I've got my RSS feed shit together so there will be actual content.

  5. [Edited in] I'm giving a survey in /r/EconPapers (stickied thread) so I can better gauge what topics and content are most relevant to the userbase. If that applies to you, go vote.

When in doubt, prax it out.

Sincerely,

Comments R' Us

Glorious Dear Leader of the Econo-Meme Team

[–]Jericho_Hill"OFFICIALLY" Retarded Economist 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

1) His purple plans include proposals that Red Republicans would hate, along with Blue Democrats...its mixing oil and vinegar. His platform ideas seem to fail very basic game theory tests...he's asking people to act against their individual incentives... he should know better.

2) Zzz. Needs more shill.

3) Please let me know what the going rate is. For research...

4) I subbed your sub.

That, and

[–]complexsystemsMWG is my homeboy 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just a reminder, I made a pledge to post at least one article to /r/economics in the form of a link every day for the next week. I encourage everyone else to jump on the bandwagon.

I am also trying to post a bit more in some of the smaller non-Greece oriented threads more reasonable content, but I consider that secondary to posting better links.

[–]Meta-Cognition"Neoclassical Bernankean shill" 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I couldn't help myself

[–]Tiakoneo-mercantilist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why am I not seeing more talk about China? I would at least expect the China bashers to salivate over the stock market jimjam as Sign Of China's Impending Collapse (Take 50) but it seems to have been completely swallowed by Greece. Silly people, don't you know Europe is irrelevant?

[–]thedrunkennoob 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What's the prevailing opinion on Krugman among academics? Both on his formal academic work and his opEds.