jump to content
my subreddits
more »
want to join? sign in or create an account in seconds|
[-]
use the following search parameters to narrow your results:
subreddit:subreddit
find submissions in "subreddit"
author:username
find submissions by "username"
site:example.com
find submissions from "example.com"
url:text
search for "text" in url
selftext:text
search for "text" in self post contents
self:yes (or self:no)
include (or exclude) self posts
nsfw:yes (or nsfw:no)
include (or exclude) results marked as NSFW
e.g. subreddit:aww site:imgur.com dog
this post was submitted on
2 points (100% upvoted)
shortlink:
reset password

legaladvice

subscribeunsubscribe49,165 readers
523 users here now
A place to ask simple legal questions. Advice here is for informational purposes only and should not be considered final or official advice. See a local attorney for the best answer to your questions.
See our best posts at /r/bestoflegaladvice!
Get answers to our most common questions, pointers to other sites about the law, and information about finding a lawyer of your own at the /r/legaladvice wiki.
Basic guidelines:
  • Please only use responses as guidelines to better prepare yourself for when you meet with a lawyer.
  • Lawyers everywhere usually offer low-or-no cost consultations.
  • Posting personally identifiable information will get you banned.
  • Please do not delete your post after you've received help. If you're worried about your identity, create a throwaway. We want to help as many people as possible, and that includes those who may stumble upon your post later.
  • If you've posted about the same or a related issue before in this subreddit, please provide a link to your previous post
  • After you submit your post, please click the "flair" button below it and choose the best option.
  • Users with stars have been recognized for consistently strong contributions. Read about them and how to get one here.
  • It's ok to joke around a bit, but it's not ok to ONLY joke around here. Please offer legal information if you have it, and if you don't, keep your comments to yourself.
  • Posts containing primarily negative comments, and lacking in advice, will be summarily removed without warning. Users who are consistent problems will be banned. Post to help, not to flame.
  • Posts should not advertise, nor should they offer, legal services of any type.
Posting Notes:
  • Always include your location in the title or body of your post. If in the US, include your state; if in Canada, include your province; else, give your country. Laws change dramatically as you cross borders.
  • The spam filter occasionally eats good posts. Message the mods with a link to your post if you would like for us to save it and we might. Forget the link and we won't.
created by kahia community for
silly penguin
No problem. We won't show you that ad again. Why didn't you like it?
Oops! I didn't mean to do this.
•
•
•
submitted by Ihopthrowawayhop
Hey guys, I'm not sure what to do in this situation and need some advice.
I was at IHOP this morning having a nice breakfast. Everything was delicious and I was content. As I went to pay for my meal I was told that the credit card machine was broken and that I need to pay cash.
Not having any cash on my person, I informed that I would need to leave and go to an ATM. They were not OK with this. The cashier said I could not leave and needed to wait until the machine started working or call someone to bring me cash.
I told him that this was absolutely unacceptable and I would not be held hostage over $12.
(Now, I want to preface this with the fact that have a valid CPL and was carrying at the time.)
At this point the manager comes over and invades my personal space. He steps in front of me and tells me I'm not leaving until I pay for my meal. I told him that he could not force me to stay.
As I stepped towards the door her grabbed my arm, at which point I drew my Glock 23 and asked to remove his hands from me.
He immediately let go and said he was calling the cops.
I got in my car and left. I'm currently sitting at home and I'm not sure what I should do. I doubt they could identify me or find me.
Any advice is appreciated.
all 18 comments
[–]limetreehermit 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Find a lawyer. Leave the gun at home.
[–]Citicop 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Your behavior is 100% not justified and in Missouri you would be guilty of Unlawful Use of a Weapon for drawing and pointing your weapon in those circumstances.
Seems likely you could be charged with robbery as well.
Get a lawyer and stop carrying a gun until you can do it reasonably and responsibly.
[–]Napalmenator 1 point2 points3 points  (3 children)
Yeah. There was no fear for your safety. No one threatened to harm you. You had the option to call the police and wait. Instead you threatened to kill people and left without paying.
[–]Ihopthrowawayhop[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
I was being held hostage. I did not threaten to kill anyone.
[–]Citicop 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
What force did they use to "hold you hostage?"
Why could you not have called the police?
[–]demyst 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
I was being held hostage.
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
[–]demyst 1 point2 points3 points  (6 children)
. . . you drew your weapon because someone grabbed your arm? Over paying for a meal?!
Jesus christ. YOU are the reason we can't have nice things. YOU are the reason some reasonable measures of restricting gun access should exist.
As of right now, sit pretty at home. When the police come you should be prepared to be silent and not talk. Get a lawyer. I'd suggest calling around and retaining a lawyer before they come, actually.
[–]Ihopthrowawayhop[S] -1 points0 points1 point  (5 children)
In Washington state you are allowed to use deadly force to stop a felony.
Kidnapping is a felony.
[–]Citicop 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
You are not and were not the victim of kidnapping, attempted or otherwise.
[–]demyst 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
This was not kidnapping. And there was no reasonable fear for your safety. You should not have drawn your weapon.
[–]Ihopthrowawayhop[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
RCW 9A.40.040 Unlawful imprisonment.
(1) A person is guilty of unlawful imprisonment if he or she knowingly restrains another person.
 (2) Unlawful imprisonment is a class C felony.
[2011 c 336 § 365; 1975 1st ex.s. c 260 § 9A.40.040.]
[–]demyst 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Again, not kidnapping.
The statute you cited is not kidnapping. And the situation you were in was not kidnapping.
Further, even if (and that is a huge longshot) it was, there is likely a shopkeepers exception for those who will not pay.
[–]thepatman 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
In Washington state you are allowed to use deadly force to stop a felony.
This wasn't a felony. This wasn't kidnapping. This was stopping a thief.
[–]thepatman 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
Any advice is appreciated.
If you can't learn how to properly handle your weapon, leave it at home.
He touched you. He didn't assault you, make a move to assault you, or anything like that. You were attempting to leave without paying, and when confronted, you pulled your gun.
You were absolutely in the wrong.
[–]Ihopthrowawayhop[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
How was I supposed to pay?
[–]thepatman 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
You stay until you come up with an agreement. Or, if they try to prevent you from leaving, you call the police.
You don't use your gun to threaten people because you don't like what they're doing.
[–]PM-Me-Beer 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
You escalated the situation from an arm grab into a potential firefight. Simply brandishing a firearm is a gross misdemeanor in Washington. Depending on what exactly you did it may be a lot worse. If contacted, do not speak to the police without an attorney present.
[–]-Themis- 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
I'm fairly sure that this meets the requirement for armed robbery.
Yup.
Robbery definition: A person commits robbery when he or she unlawfully takes personal property from the person of another or in his or her presence against his or her will by the use or threatened use of immediate force, violence, or fear of injury to that person or his or her property or the person or property of anyone. Such force or fear must be used to obtain or retain possession of the property, or to prevent or overcome resistance to the taking; in either of which cases the degree of force is immaterial.
Armed Robbery in the First Degree:
(1) A person is guilty of robbery in the first degree if: (a) In the commission of a robbery or of immediate flight therefrom, he or she: (ii) Displays what appears to be a firearm or other deadly weapon
Get a lawyer now. It may never come to it, but better be prepared than be shocked when you are arrested.
And for future reference this is a CLASS A felony. Which carries up to a life sentence.
You should not carry a gun. You are apparently not capable of determining when it is appropriate to pull it.
Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy {Genitive}. © 2015 reddit inc. All rights reserved.
REDDIT and the ALIEN Logo are registered trademarks of reddit inc.
π Rendered by PID 11019 on app-243 at 2015-07-11 21:10:38.677825+00:00 running 6383b29 country code: DE.
0%
 
10%
 
20%
 
30%
 
40%
 
50%
 
60%
 
70%
 
80%
 
90%
 
100%