全 106 件のコメント

[–]aksugartits 85ポイント86ポイント  (11子コメント)

That's actually really sad.

[–]NetPotionNr9 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Prepare to be very sad throughout your life then because with the surge of the human population more and more species and habitats and things will be destroyed. But rest assured, what we need is MOAR PEOPLE!

[–]ToastOfTheToasted [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

As opposed to what?

Population control is a flawed argument and in it's widest application caused enormous problems when it conflicted with cultural expectations in China.

The better decision is denser habitats and more efficient industry, we could easily double the current population and sustain it via applied hydroponics, GMOs, and uniformly tall cities.

The problem is never the population, it's the short sighted allocation of resources.

[–]loki-things 66ポイント67ポイント  (37子コメント)

Thanks China! I hope we start a trend where Panda Bones make you immortal. Then we start poaching Pandas and watch the Chinese flip out and say that's bullshit.

[–]DonutCopLord 76ポイント77ポイント  (22子コメント)

Seriously fuck the Chinese for endangering so many species. Their stupid culture should fuck right off

[–]Clawface 28ポイント29ポイント  (14子コメント)

As much as I want to disagree, you're right. It's a terrible culture in which animals are almost like trees. They're just resources for us to use,and unless someone puts a stop to this,we'll be seeing a lot more posts like this in the near future.

[–]DarthSunshine 14ポイント15ポイント  (11子コメント)

As a Chinese person, how can I help? I don't think I can influence the government or change the culture.

[–]Anhimidae 22ポイント23ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't think I can ... change the culture.

You can. Raise your kids with values that help preserve endangered species. It's a small step, but it is one.

[–]DarthSunshine 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Being a kid, it's going to be an entire generation before that happens. But...can do!

[–]1trueidea [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's not just a Chinese issue, that's what everybody should be doing if we want to protect endangered species.

[–]mph1204 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

become a doctor. do something to help educate the people around you about modern day healthcare. people here like to shit on China, but the vast majority of the people there have very little access to health care. and the pharmaceuticals you get over there are often counterfeit and dangerous. there's no trust in medicine. it's no wonder that the people there would rather trust "tried and true age old wisdom". China has only recently developed a real pharmaceutical regulatory system. the availability of safe medicine will increase but it will take a long time for people to trust them again. the powdered bones might not help, but at least they don't seem like their doing more damage.

[–]twominitsturkish 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

See, this is what I don't get. The Chinese Communist Party has almost unrivaled power in terms of its power over the population it governs. They were able to crush Tiananmen Square, organize a single party state, build the world's biggest dam, put on a $40 billion Olympics, and even have a decent record of censoring the Internet. You're telling me they can't stop some poachers and witch doctors?

[–]mph1204 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

they have to think it's a problem first. the Chinese government is pretty monolithic. like anything like that, it has a very limited field of view. their approach is... let's worry about these few things then we'll get to the rest later.

fake medicine and bad health care have been a way of life for... ever. it's only been very recently (past 75 years or so... and that's only in the developed world) that reliable health care has been the norm.

China has been trying to get its billion people out of poverty and subsistence farming. it's only just recently that people have been getting educated to the fact that their medicine blows and are demanding changes so the government has finally decided it's something to worry about.

[–]twominitsturkish 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think we should make any trade with Asia conditional upon them stop killing endangered species. Public campaign, arresting poachers, even executing a few of the motherfuckers, do what you gotta do to stop this, and we'll trade with you.

[–]mph1204 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

isn't that why people are up in arms over the TPP? lol. that countries will lose their sovereignty over trade treaties?

I mean, I don't necessarily disagree, but there are a lot more causes to animal endangerment and extinction than just people poaching them for medicine. loss of habitat is the major one. that's not necessarily the fault of the people looking for medicine. it's more due to the need for farming space in those other countries. it's a very complicated problem that will take a multi-pronged approach. you just have to be careful of unintended consequences

[–]srw91 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Have you ever taken a look at anything technology related? 90% of it is made in China. What you are saying is nearly impossible because people still want cheap TVS, radios, mobile phones, computers etc.

[–]twominitsturkish 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The saiga antelope is critically endangered because of demand for traditional Chinese medicine, where their horns can fetch over $4,500 apiece. Also about 40-50% of the remaining population just died off this year because of an epizootic illness.

As a non-Chinese, their attitudes toward medicine and food like shark fin soup is something I obviously don't get, but it's something that definitely needs to change. Ecosystem preservation is a challenge already without all that poaching.

[–]wh173 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Same goes for companies all over the world, im betting they endanger more species than any culture with magical thinking.

[–]mph1204 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, it would help if the average Chinese person could have access to health care or safe medicine that could trust. There is little education or health care news. The government has sucked over the past few decades at expanding healthcare and pharmaceutical regulation. counterfeit medicines are just as prolific over there as counterfeit everything else.

People over there need to be educated on what medicines work and have confidence that it will do what it says it will do. China is working on it. In the past 5 years, there has been a strengthening of the pharma regulatory system, and regulation of traditional medicine, but it is still in very early stages.

it's not some innate problem with China or Chinese culture. you have to look at the underlying causes and try to address them. otherwise you're throwing out the baby with the bath water.

[–]TooGhetto 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

They literally just don't seem to care about anyone but themselves and it's disgusting and not an attitude for a modern superpower to have.

[–]rasdfaskdfajsdf98 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

They literally just don't seem to care about anyone but themselves

Everyone has the same attitude. Most people prefer to keep their head in the sand in terms of social issues.

[–]Nzash 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

The problem is that so many of them believe that consuming rare things such as tiger tincture or ground rhino horn etc. will grand them more virility.

If only we could stop them from believing that they'll be more manly and sexual thanks to those the market would crash.

[–]rasdfaskdfajsdf98 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

We could easily solve it by going over there and becoming Viagra salesmen!

[–]justscottaustin -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh, I dunno...I'll take a bowl of hot and sour soup over murder rage kitty any day. Seems like they're making a decent contribution...

[–]isleshocky -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're right.. they ruin everything. Assholes.

[–]absinthedoctor 27ポイント28ポイント  (4子コメント)

China is the worst thing to happen to the world since Nazi Germany. They're killing off every unique form of life they can get their hands on and killing the rest of the planet by pushing out ungodly amounts of pollution.

China might actually bring about the end of the human race.

[–]OfficialGarwood 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Which is kind of ironic considering Hitler was a HUGE animal lover and introduced extremely strict animal cruelty laws to protect pets and wildlife. So, in a way, Hitler is better than China in this regard.

[–]ThrowawayKartoffel[🍰] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hm... China has only done more pollution than the US after 2007 and you do have to count in how many more people China has. Per person the pollution is much less than in the US (1/3).

As for the killing of unique animals - they do have a culture of eating and using unique animals for food and medicine but you can't really determine who does more damage overall to the planet. It's the difference between killing dolphins while hunting for fish and killing dolphins to eat dolphins. One might sound more cruel than he other but isn't really different, it's all bad. Plenty of stuff going on in this world that is shitty. Finger pointing to countries does not help, changing overall attitude of the world is better.

[–]TooGhetto -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wanna sent the Trailer Park Boys to China so they can tell them to FUCK OFF!

[–]rasdfaskdfajsdf98 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah it is crazy. I was watching this documentary called "wild china". Pretty decent documentary. The sad part is they cover a lot of topics related to exotic animals that are native to the region. Most of them are going extinct due to Chinese having very "adventurous" appetites. Even certain insects are close to extinction as well because people eat those insects as well as the larvae....

[–]joinpanda 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seriously. It doesn't help that they have no animal welfare laws, I suppose that's that happens when barbarians get rich.

[–]lifeiswater 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Am I missing the article somewhere?

[–]LivingUnderSomeRock [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No it's just 14 year olds on reddit generalizing a country of 1.3billion, with no actual information to back them up.

[–]loki-things -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's just common knowledge that the Chinese and Southeast Asia use rare animal parts for Holistic medicine. Rhinos, elephants and many of animals are mainly endangered because of this belief and poaching of the animals to get these items.

[–]sambo_mcbluegums 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Don't worry about Pandas. They're too damn lazy to procreate, so they'll be done soon.

[–]loki-things 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It would be more to raise awareness about killing rare animals for holistic medicine.

[–]monkeydoge 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dude the pandas didnt do anything wrong it was those stupid FUCKS who are god damn stupid.

[–]Aksinblue -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would eat panda.

[–]jsimmerdown 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow they have really beautiful fur. That would actually make a great design....oh wait.....ah fuck it I'm beautiful. - some douchebags

[–]isleshocky 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

I believe the numbers are up to 50. I love Amur leopards...I'm happy the number is going up but not enough to save them.

[–]canipaintthisplease 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's not so bleak as it might seem, don't forget the 200 in dedicated breeding programs in captivity! At one point things looked even bleaker for the last wild horses, the Przewalski's horse, there were only 12 individuals left. Today their population is approaching 2000! The southern white rhino dropped to somewhere between 50-200 at it's lowest at the hands of poachers, now there's more than 11,000 of them! More than every other rhino species and subspecies combined. Careful human protection can go a long way to counter wanton human destruction.

[–]isleshocky 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yes, definitely. The breeding programs are doing great.. The animals are happy and thriving.. it's just so sad to think that you can't let them roam around without the threat of some asshole killing them.

[–]canipaintthisplease 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, absolutely... Seems like so many species only have a future within fences where humans say they can live. Hopefully humanity will get it's shit together so that at least the descendants of these animals will get a chance at living free again.

[–]isleshocky 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I love how they say "oh the cat was going to attack so we killed it".. yea ok.. most big cats especially leopards don't go near humans.. they actually don't interact.. and if you have a female animal going to "attack you"...maybe she has babies near by and you should just leave.

[–]canipaintthisplease 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I understand it sometimes, like when tigers get so old they have trouble hunting anything quick, we present a soft easy meal for a desperate tiger. Or the small livestock farmers in Africa, lions can't differentiate between animals they can eat and animals owned by humans, as sad as it is that they kill the big cats I can't see any way to stop them protecting their livelihoods, short of conservationists reimbursing them for every animal killed by a big cat. 'Going to attack' is such bullshit though, especially with leopards as you say. They're so small compared to the other big cats, kills from them are so rare that killer leopards get their own wiki page! Anyone who takes hunting weapons into big cat territory and then shoots it because it was going to attack, it's just straight up like this south park scene, right?

[–]CMcCleary 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tallinn Zoo in Estonia has a good webcam for their leopards.
If you are on the other side of the world to them - check in during their night to see the most activity.
Tallinn Zoo Leopards

[–]Thoughtful_Ninja 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

A shout out to the Yorkshire Wildlife Park in England - they're part of the Amur Leopard breeding programme. http://www.yorkshirewildlifepark.com/#!leopard-heights/c1p1z

Their Amur tigers have also just had babies :) http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/update/2015-04-15/three-endangered-tiger-cubs-born-at-yorkshire-wildlife-park/

[–]rabbitwarrens 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm lucky to work really closely with two gorgeous Amur leopards in the UK. They live in a private sanctuary where I run photography courses and experience days, and the guys that run it are 100% about animal welfare and conservation. It's sad to think how endangered they are, but a privilege to be able to interact with them in such an intimate environment.

[–]its_casual 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm saddened to think my children won't be able to enjoy the delicious Amur Leopard thanks to these poachers.

[–]SanDesu 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's really sad. Amur leopards are my favorite animal; such a strong, beautiful creature. I really hope that some day there will be more out there.

[–]isleshocky 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Me too! I love them.. they are so beautiful and amazing.

[–]loverboi808 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Anything I can do about it? lol

[–]wanklen[S] 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

[–]Captain_Oreos 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course there aren't many left in the wild if it only costs $55 to adopt one.

[–]joinpanda 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

Pretty sure if you can get 50 likes on facebook it will all stop.

[–]loveyourlies 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

30 Amur Leopards compared to over 7 Billion Human Beings. That makes me want to vomit.

30 compared to 7,000,000,000. Where the fuck is our humanity?

[–]luiz127 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Turn back now, these comments are bullshit

[–]kosovola [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yep. They're essentially saying fuck these 1 billion people. Even though not everybody in china belongs to the same culture.

[–]Molzilla 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's sad, because I could hold their damn paws all day! Look SO soft.

[–]5years8months3days 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm pretty tired so my brain read that as amateur leopards at first.

[–]jboyle1000 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That is one gorgeous cat. Can't let that beauty go extinct.

[–]freedimension 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Humans are assholes. Well, surely not every single one ... but as a whole. :-(

[–]mrs2208 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh god not again! I already adopted a tiger the other day, (thanks anxiety! ) now I need to adopt one of these too.

[–]murrypurryfurryfury 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

A population under 500 is doomed to extinction, it's just a matter of time. Lack of genetic diversity is a bitch

[–]deadbort 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's not entirely true. The Mauritius kestrel was down to 4 individuals in 1974, with 1 breeding pair. Now, there's probably around 300-400, and the populations are no longer being actively conserved, or at least not nearly to the degree that they used to be.

Also, Northern elephant seals were down to about 100 individuals in the 1890s but now there are over 200,000, despite very low levels of heterozygosity. So basically, a lack of genetic diversity and low numbers doesn't necessarily mean extinction is inevitable.

[–]murrypurryfurryfury 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It seems genetic science will disagree with you.

Loss of heterozygosity over time can be estimated with the following equation.

Ht = Ho (1 - 1 ) t

2Ne

heterozygosity at time t is a function of initial heterozygosity at time zero the amount of heterozygosity lost will be very small if Ne is large heterozygosity is lost with the passage of time ("to the power of t") why "2Ne"? because each individual receives genes from two parents To retain 90% of initial genetic variation after 100 years, Ne must equal 500, and N must equal 1,000 to 2,000 individuals. This way, Genetic drift caused by random mutations will outwiegh any damaging effects caused by inbreeding.

If you do not have enough individuals, your population gets too genetically similar over time, leading to risk with infectious diseases, and other maladies usually brought on by inbreeding.

Captive populations of large vertebrates often descend from a handful of individuals: for the Siberian tiger, 25; for the Mongolian wild horse, 13; an African gazelle began with one male and three females. Such populations face a high risk of inbreeding, which means mating with a close relative -- parent-offspring, siblings, cousins etc. Most species rarely inbreed in nature, because of larger population sizes and various behavioral factors, hence this consequence of rarity and captivity is unusual. Comparison of inbred vs. non-inbred captive mammal populations from zoos shows that reproduction and survival are reduced by inbreeding. This effect, termed inbreeding depression occurs because inbreeding results in increased homozygosity, which in turn increases the likelihood that deleterious recessive genes will be expressed. Normally, harmful, recessive alleles are so rare that they almost never occur in the homozygous state. Inbreeding increases the probability increases that two alleles present at a location are identical due to common descent. If a son mates with his mother, not too unlikely in a small population, the offspring might be "aa" for some trait. Furthermore, the offspring may well receive both those "a's" from the female who is simultaneously the mother and grandmother. In small populations, all individuals quickly become related, and as a consequence are more homozygous than non-inbred individuals and have lower levels of genetic diversity. Although drift and inbreeding both result in increased homozygosity, the mechanism and the consequences are different. Drift increases homozygosity by random loss of alleles, and harms the population’s long-term capacity to adapt. Rare, harmful, recessive genes are most likely to be lost, because they already are so rare. Inbreeding increases homozygosity by descent (individuals receive the identical gene through each parent), and facilitates the appearance of harmful, recessive alleles in the homozygous state. Individuals are less healthy as a consequence, and the effect is shorter-term. By a similar equation, it can be calculated that an Ne of 50 is large enough to keep the in-breeding coefficient at 1% per generation. Animal husbandry studies show this inbreeding rate to be as high as can be maintained in artificial selection. You might think it unlikely that our captive population will contain even one "Aa" individual. True enough, for that gene location. But there are 104 - 106 gene locations, and many lethal and deleterious genes are found in normal healthy populations, such as the NRE 220 class.

Edit: Sauce http://www.snre.umich.edu/~dallan/nre220/outline12.htm and disclaimer. I am not a genetic expert, you probably know more then me, but everything I've read so far shows me that a small initial population under the Ne=500 number leads to gene pool damage over time. As well as susceptibility to harmful recessive genetic traits. would you care to explain to me how the population of Northern Elephant seals looks at the moment, with regards to genetic deformities or possible large scale epidemic problems?

[–]deadbort [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't know much, I'm just a biology student. But if I recall correctly, 500 is the number supposedly required to maintain enough genetic variation so that adaptive evolution is possible, however only 50 individuals are needed to limit inbreeding depression (the 50/500 rule).

But yeah, these numbers are highly disputed, and I don't think you can just come up with a simple equation for predicting the minimum viable population which is valid for every species and population ranging from large mammals to yeast.

I don't know about how safe Northern elephant seals are, you'd think they'd probably be more susceptible to being wiped out by disease than a more heterozygous species, but it obviously hasn't hindered their recovery yet. I guess this sums it up.

Reduced genetic variability may compromise the population viability of some species of mammals (e.g., O'Brien et al. 1985; O'Brien et al. 1987), but many other species have persisted for a long time despite population bottlenecks, founder events, isolation, inbreeding, and low levels of genetic variation (e.g., Gill 1980; Nevo, Beiles, and Ben-Shlomo 1984; Gilbert et al. 1990; Benirshke and Kumamoto 1991; Wayne et al. 1991).

A lack of substantial genetic variability has not limited the phenomenal population recovery of northern elephant seals. Indeed, their recovery contrasts ironically with the recent decline of some populations of the closely related southern elephant seal (Laws, this volume), which is genetically more polymorphic (McDermid, Ananthakrishna, and Agar 1972; Hoelzel et al. 1991). The consequences of low genetic variability for future population growth of northern elephant seals are unpredictable.

So again, certain species have managed to survive perfectly fine despite having reduced numbers, while others haven't, and I think applying something like a 50/500 rule is sort of irresponsible. We shouldn't give up on a species because their numbers fall below a threshold, nor should we believe a population that is above 500 in number is entirely safe because a simple equation tells us so.

[–]Volibears_Bite 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, now time to eat a pint of ice cream to ease my sadness. Thanks dick.

[–]withagrainofsalt1[🍰] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

that says a lot about the human race

[–]Gasvein 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah... will I NEED SEAT COVERS

[–]AlphaNoodle 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Honest question, what are responses of the poachers when they know they will be out of a business, killing the almost extinct animals they need. Like, I'm honestly curious about their justifications.

[–]dolladollabells 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Probably something like "if I don't kill it another poacher will so I may as well kill it now and get the reward". Stupid greedy justifications.

[–]tiltldr 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can probably find at least another 30 on instagram living in some doucebags palace

[–]PrinnyOverlord 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

GOOD JOB PEOPLE! THAT'S ANOTHER SPECIES SOON TO BE GONE FOREVER! You all are monsters.

[–]oochiewallagirl 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can we please increase the numbers!

[–]Maxcactus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Zero leopards have survived in agricultural lands and urbanized areas.

[–]Furthur_slimeking 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

According to the wikipedia page that hosts the picture you link to, as of 2015, there are 57 Amur Leopards in Russia and 12 in China.

If your figure of 30 wild leopards is simply out of date rather than incorrect, than that points to a doubling of the wild population in recent years, which is excellent news.

[–]-RandyMarsh 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Challenge accepted

[–]raskoln1kov [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Who are the people that buy this shit? wtf

[–]ukfashman [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Majority of the big cats are in trouble

[–]MastrYoda [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

More than 99% of all species that have ever lived have gone extinct. It happens. Stop getting so fucking sentimental about it. Most species are extinct after 10 million years anyway.

[–]emohipster 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've seen these, they're beautiful. It's so sad they're almost extinct in the wild.

[–]Staffdoggy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Theses 34 in the wild right now

[–]WRno7 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

This is really sad... But I'm curious: How do we know its about 30 animals in the wild?

[–]DroidsRugly 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

They organized a farewell party & only 30 attended.

[–]baileysmooth 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a statistical analysis that counts how many individuals they can find in a period of time.

[–]ChildOfRecession -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Looks kinda tasty

[–]sambo_mcbluegums -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Go ahead and make that 29. I just ordered mine.

[–]zaske012 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I really was hoping OP was laying until I saw the reply to the first comment :(

[–]VakarianBottleBlast 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, he's taking a stand about it, sadly for you

[–]treeeeees -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

So, they're fucked. And I'm pretty sure they've been fucked even before their population reached 30.