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SOCJUS[SocJus] Are there many things more that a company or organization fears than being libelously labeled "sexist" or "racist" by a privileged, obnoxious internet hate mob on a witch hunt, facts or context be damned? Re: KimonoGate and the Boston Museum of Fine Arts. (self.KotakuInAction)

SpiritualSuccessors が 投稿

Pardon the dumb name, but it's all I have to call it at the moment.

Recently the Museum of Fine Arts - Boston cancelled a kimono wearing event, for a kimono that was specifically made in Japan for people in Japan and in the west to try on while viewing a painting. A group of social justice crusaders took it upon themselves to cry racism, cry cultural appropriation - whether or not Japan had given it's blessing for this event to occur.

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/museum-of-fine-arts-boston-apologizes-for-kimono-event-315000

You can get reactions from /r/Japan and /r/News on this story here:

https://archive.is/D516b
https://archive.is/ceTRO

1

Oh for fuck's sake, this is beyond ridiculous. How on earth is that even remotely racist?

In Kyoto you can not only try on a kimono, but even get the whole maiko/geiko makeup to go with it and the service is extremely popular with foreigners (which of course means they're all horrible racist in whiteface and should be ashamed of themselves /s).

I have not met a SINGLE Japanese person who would be even slightly offended by a foreigner wearing a traditional garb - hell, they encourage it any chance they get! Yet another case of some politically correct morons getting offended on behalf of someone else... I sure as fuck hope they're not appropriating Italian culture by eating spaghetti or wearing Italian suits - that would be Italianism, lack of cultural sensitivity and racism, right?

2

Judging by the pictures and names on the protest blog linked to below, it is not Japanese who are getting offended. Looks to be Chinese-Americans. One wrote a comment (using a Chinese name) confronting someone with "who are YOU to say the Japanese should not be offended?!?"

Right back at ya, Wang. Who are YOU to say they should be?

Sheesh.

3

You are absolutely correct. Japanese would be THRILLED to have visitors try on kimono. This really doesn't make any sense to me.

4

So they are saying that it is not OK to dress up like people from other cultures? What is their reasoning and how do they explain that in Japan it is common to dress up like other cultures and a favorite its activity to dress visiting gaijin in traditional Japanese clothes.

5

The kimono replicas were commissioned by Japan's NHK for the purpose of letting foreigners try them on as part of getting them to know Japanese culture.

Japanese are not offended. This kimonos are made by the Japanese NHK. Only Americans are complaining claiming to be offended. If they are not japanese and complain about things the japanese do, it is not them who are appropriating Japanese culture?

6

The kimono replicas were commissioned by Japan's NHK for the purpose of letting foreigners try them on as part of getting them to know Japanese culture.

Japanese are not offended. This kimonos are made by the Japanese NHK. Only Americans are complaining claiming to be offended. If they are not japanese and complain about things the japanese do, it is not them who are appropriating Japanese culture?

The kimonos is made by Japanese, by NHK. The idea to use kimono to introduce culture is Japanese, the kimono used is made by Japan NHK. Introduction of Japan culture via kimono is Japanese government "Cool Japan" project. http://www.meti.go.jp/policy/mono_info_service/mono/creative/

The non-Japanese insult the kimono made by Japanese, and appropriate Japan culture to use as political tool. They are the real racists. They insult Japanese, say Japanese thoughts does not matter.

A follow-up story was made in which a Japanese teacher was personally bothered by the museum's decision to give in to these loud, obnoxious assholes.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/2015/07/08/tensions-questions-mfa-reconfigured-kimono-wednesdays/5VpgDhLrDNK2nPIOSygFNL/story.html

Timothy Nagaoka, 37, who teaches Japanese in the Boston public schools, said he was disappointed that the Museum of Fine Arts is no longer letting guests try on kimonos next to Claude Monet’s “La Japonaise.”

At one point, Nagaoka and the group opposing the event, along with other visitors, gathered in a doorway of the gallery, and the conversation became slightly heated. “You don’t understand anything about art,” one man said as he passed through. To which someone responded, “Check your privilege.”

Holy shit. There are people protesting an event showing off Japanese artwork, screaming tumblrina catchphrases. What is wrong with the world?

Normally these people would have no power or push whatsoever, but all it takes is one media outlet to report on the tears of some white people on twitter to create a controversy. Or one SJW with a large following to rally her army under the cry of "Sexism!" or "Racism!".

How do these people keep getting their way in games, comicbooks, sci-fi and actual museums? Why do they despise art this much?

Maybe GamerGate has had it all wrong all along. Maybe we should have been a hate mob. A culturally acceptable hate mob, who can ruin people's lives and business's livelihoods by labeling their every action as prejudice. God knows we would have gotten our way every time.

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[–]informat2 30ポイント31ポイント  (2子コメント)

Japan likes it when other people explore their culture. There's even a tern for it, Cool Japan.

Cool Japan (クールジャパン Kūru Japan?), along with "Gross National Cool" is a concept coined in 2002 as an expression of Japan's emergent status as a cultural superpower. Gaining broad exposure in the media and academia, the brand of "Cool Japan" has been adopted by the Japanese government as well as trade bodies seeking to exploit the commercial capital of the country's culture industry. It has been described as a form of soft power, "the ability to indirectly influence behaviour or interests through cultural or ideological means".

[–]Ssilversmith 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

In other words it's racially and culturally empowering, and what these asscunts did was racism disguised as empathy.

[–]dontmindmeIworkhere 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's because any sane race wants their culture to flourish. They max it out in 3 cities and they win.

[–]lucben999 21ポイント22ポイント  (2子コメント)

How do these people keep getting their way in games, comicbooks, sci-fi and actual museums?

Thanks to a cabal of corrupt ideologues working in major media outlets who are eager to push any narrative that favors SJWs, give them a platform to spout their bullshit and abuse their influence to attack anyone who dares to dissent.

Why do they despise art this much?

On this point, they tend to measure the worth of everything mostly by its utility to spread their ideology, creative works are no different, which is why they praise works with underlying political messages that push for their ideology regardless of quality and either inject their politics into inherently apolitical works or refuse to classify such works as art.

[–]BackInAsulon 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think its because if you think about it, equality for women and minorities is good. Rape is bad. Wage gap is bad. These are things most people out there know. Given that the social justice crusade presents itself as the supporters of equality, it gets presented as the good side.

People just need to dig a little deeper to see the bullshit side of social justice which the rest is built on. Luckily the crusade is actually digging it up themselves for everyone to look at cough randi harper cough

I'll go get some water. Something stuck in my throat. . .

[–]Ssilversmith 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can see artistic value in propaganda but is it still art when it tells you what to think and feel instead of encouraging you to think and feel at all?

[–]DikFistinHotPockets 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

Edit: I'm not going to link it, but their facebook page is complete insanity/hilarity and worth checking out (don't be a dick and comment on it, obviously). At one point they do what all SJWs do and devolve into a hilarious oppression olympics where they starting talking about whether it is OK for black people to wear the kimonos at the event (obviously white people can't), and other assorted absurdity. It is chalk full of people screaming, "CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE AT THE GODDAMN DOOR!" and the like.

I'm just laughing at these fucking protesters. A tiny group of primarily Chinese-Americans and Korean-Americans acting all offended on behalf of the Japanese, when the goddamned Japanese government helped set up and sponsor this entire exhibit. Then a bunch of Japanese people and Japanese-Americans find out about this and are outraged at the protesters for being such idiots, start going after them, and the protesters respond with tumblr memes, shouting check your privilege and the like.

It's a drama circle of infinite stupidity on the part of the protesters and it shows how these sorts of people are continuously moving the goal posts to the point where it's hard to tell if they even know why they're offended anymore.

First the exhibit was white people culturally appropriating Japanese culture and this whole thing was very offensive to the Japanese. Then it comes out that the Japanese supported and helped create the exhibit and didn't find it offensive at all, in fact the opposite, they were happy to showcase their culture as it's a part of their "Cool Japan" initiative to share Japanese culture with the rest of the world.

So then the protesters completely change their original stance, like, "Yeah, well, so what if the Japanese helped make this and like it! It doesn't even matter if they aren't offended! It's offensive to Japanese-Americans!" Then you get a deluge of support for the exhibit amongst Japanese-Americans, denouncing the protesters and setting up their own counter protest.

So now the protesters have to retreat even further back and say, "So what if Japan, the Japanese, and Japanese-Americans aren't offended by this, it's really about Asian-Americans and how we're treated in the media!" Then their facebook page gets so many negative comments from their fellow Asian-Americans, telling them how stupid and wrong they are, that they shut it down while screaming check your privilege to people who HAVE THE EXACT SAME LEVEL OF PRIVILEGE AS THEM!!!

It's like, wait, what the fuck are you offended about? You started off talking about this being offensive to the Japanese and cultural appropriation, and have devolved into, "It's not even about Japan. the Japanese, or Japanese-Americans, it's about all Asian-Americans and media portrayal!" You've backpedaled/moved the goal posts so much that we're not even playing football anymore, we're on a baseball diamond on some other planet holding hockey sticks.

[–]SupremeReader 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

So now the protesters have to retreat even further back and say, "So what if Japan, the Japanese, and Japanese-Americans aren't offended by this, it's really about Asian-Americans and how we're treated in the media!"

We had those idiots attacking vidya already 20 years ago.

Guy Aoki, the president of the advocacy group Media Action Network for Asian Americans, rebuked Mortal Kombat II in 1994 for allegedly perpetuating existing stereotypes of Asians as martial arts experts with the game's portrayal of characters such as Kitana, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Mileena, Raiden, Scorpion, Shang Tsung and Sub-Zero.

Wonder if this Guy was triggered by Guy from Final Fight.

[–]DikFistinHotPockets 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is what one of their supporters actually wrote on the facebook page. I've seen her posting there a lot. I think she is one of the protesters but I can't confirm....

So the museum pulled the kimono wearing event, but people are still allowed to look at the kimonos and touch them. This is obviously, TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!

We are still protesting because the kimono can still be touched and handled under an orentalist gaze and touch

Ho-leeeee shiieeeet. White people are not even allowed to LOOK at a kimono.

[–]SasquatchGenocide 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Archive for those claims? Would love to have that shit documented.

[–]DikFistinHotPockets 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm too lazy. I've just been following it and not documenting, but their facebook page isn't hard to find (I can't recall how KiA feels about linking to stuff like that) and if you go all the way to the beginning and read the stuff they were saying and then keep reading up the page it gets hilarious as the narrative starts to fall apart.

Here is one bit from their tumblr that I loved...

THIS IS A HYPHENATED-AMERICAN PHENOMENON Our concern with the MFA’s event has to do with the specific issues Asian American/ Pacific Islanders (AAPI) face in U.S. culture. AAPI have historically been either under- and misrepresented in American media and culture. AAPI are rarely portrayed in films or television, and when we are, it’s often as a sidekick, Fu Manchu, exoticized prostitute, or a near-sighted buck-toothed Mr. Yunioshi (i.e. Breakfast at Tiffany’s). This, therefore, becomes an issue about racism in this country, when replicated on this soil without critical discourse by institutions like the MFA.

Having the uchikake made in and tour around Japan does not validate the cultural appropriation specific to American history. Japanese people in Japan do not face the same under- and misrepresentation that Japanese-Americans and other AAPI do here. Also, the MFA claiming that ‘we don’t think this is racist’ doesn’t make it so. So often there is a declaration of ‘appreciating’ Asian cultures, then why are Asian-American peoples and voices not treated with the same kind of consideration when we approach the institution with our concerns? In fact, coming from the MFA, this denial is a clear example of Institutional Racism.

Cultural Appropriation is simply a manifestation of Institutional Racism. Orientalism is a branch of it.

Just, LOL.

Edit: HERE IS LEGIT FUCKING PROOF THESE MOFOS CANNOT AND WILL NOT EVER BE HAPPY...

So the meseum pulled the wearing of the kimonos but peoplle are still allowed to touch them and look at them.

This is obviously, UNACCEPTABLE.

Per a comment from one of the group's supports on their facebook page.

We are still protesting because the kimono can still be touched and handled under an orentalist gaze and touch

CAN'T EVEN LOOK AT A KIMONO, WHITEY!

[–]TehRawk 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe GamerGate has had it all wrong all along. Maybe we should have been a hate mob.

They are quite fond of projection.

To which someone responded, “Check your privilege."

For example.

[–]SupremeReader 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

Maybe GamerGate has had it all wrong all along. Maybe we should have been a hate mob. A culturally acceptable hate mob

Yeah, maybe we should at least imitate the feminists in their protests (trigger warning: the video may trigger the fuck out of you) somewhere at least.

[–]thekindlyman555 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

Wow at the end they're even acting like fucking savages... That shit reminded me of Lord of the Flies...

[–]SupremeReader 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

You're going to enjoy feminist zombie apocalypse.

[–]thekindlyman555 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I have no idea what's going on, but it's terrifying me.

[–]Taipoka 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

A cop said one time "don't walk out there at night dressed like a slut, because you might become a target of some sick people (rapers)."
Feminists got all mad and organized the slutwalk to protest against man telling them what to dress, because man should not rape (point).
And you have this...
Well, you know, because if the cop said on national TV: "Rapers, you should not rape woman because you are a mysoginy monster", all the criminals (Yeah, they do crime) would just stop doing rape at all.
Its so simple to stop crime, how didn't we thought about that before?

[–]thekindlyman555 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

ISIS, stop killing innocent people in the Middle East!

...

I did it guys! I stopped ISIS!

[–]musashi_mercutioSpaghettis in Japanese 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

So wait, on top of my GIANT ass rant in the last thread, I now learn this was a Japanese government sanctioned program? For fuck's sake SJDubs, this is literally the Japanese people saying, "Experience our god damned culture, you fuckers!"

Don't make me go all tin-foil hat here and connect Chinese-American SJDubs to Chinese government spies trying to destroy Japanese representation in the west over the Senkaku Islands. What, was wiping out 2000 years of history and culture not good enough for you fuck-wits? What is wrong with you guys?

[–]redditthrowawaykin 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I had that same tinfoil hat thought too!

But the reality is likely that they're true believers. They'd probably do the same to a chinoiserie exhibit too.

[–]musashi_mercutioSpaghettis in Japanese 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ho~ly shi~t I told my wife these were Chinese-American SJDubs and she came to the same tinfoil hat conclusion.

[–]DikFistinHotPockets [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The Japanese NHK made the kimonos which is hilarious because a lot of the protesters were calling them cheap ass imitations. LOL.

[–]KiltmanenatorInexperienced Irregular Folds 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tell me again to my face that these people are just a joke and have no power to affect the real world.

[–]DwarfGate 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Duh, didn't you know? It's racist to explore other cultures!

Says the retarded ethnocentric all-white SJW cult.

[–]SkizzleMcRizzle 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

Look at it this way. When you hear SJW always remember, the only thing making these people not as bad as, say, nazi's is the fact they don't physically attack people. And before people try to say i'm exagerating, i'm not. These people think ANYONE who disagree's AND isn't the right demographic should just plain die. The difference? Doesn't that sound familiar?

[–]Spoor 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

The difference? Doesn't that sound familiar?

Nope. One side had clearly defined rules. The other side has rules that get expanded every minute, contradict themselves, are random, includes things that don't exist just finds you guilty no matter what, rules aren't even needed.

[–]CaesarCzech 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

The difference ? they are not in power
yet......

[–]SecurityBIanket 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is a bright side to the fact that SJWs are so hostile to merit. They are completely incompetent.

Can you imagine if the nazis had been hostile to merit? That sounds like one for /r/writingprompt.

[–]plspirit 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Imagine me 9 years ago at the world cup in germany, accompaning three friends visiting us from the states to see the US vs. Ghana game, wearing red white and blue and having a giant US flag painted on my face.

how terrible of me to appropriate american culture

[–]ambivilant 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Can every little fucking drama not be called X-gate? The Watergate fiasco was called that because it took place at the Watergate hotel.

[–]thekindlyman555 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh no, you're going to start Gate-Gate!

[–]ambivilant 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's already on, to me! And even though I started it I'm anti-gate-gate since it's just another -gate!

[–]Jerzeem 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

X-gate is way more efficient than 'the controversial events related to X'.

[–]Wonderkarp 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Next thing you know, they'll start saying Westerners cant play Nintendo because it is a Japanese country and that's Cultural Appropriation and Racism

Infact I'm damn surprised that hasnt happened yet.

[–]Rygar_the_Beast 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wait... the Japanese made these kimonos? Why the hell did the museum stopped this when the JAPANESE MADE THESE THINGS!?

[–]redditthrowawaykin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Boston Globe comment:

I suggest someone organize a kimono-in demonstration to counter-protest the original inanity. Pehaps Mr. Nagoaka could lead it.

[–]ShouldBe_Working 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

horrible racist in whiteface

kekd just a little.

[–]Lhasadog [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There is one thing and one thing only that they fear more. Losing customers and income. Stop paying these companies when they do something stupid. Stop donating to this Museum. Stop buying a given product. And let the company know why.

[–]pr01etar1at [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I have a BA in Art History and a MS in Info Sciences. I've worked in Art Galleries as a docent and research, Art Libraries as an Archivist and Reference Librarian, and provided research assistance to professors at my undergraduate institution's research department.

Anyone who actually believes an Arts Institution's Education Department is trying to belittle or offend a demographic with their programming is undeniably insane. I have worked with a LOT of people in this field - Directors, Education Specialists, Professors, Artists, Projectionists, Volunteers - you name it. The one thing I found to be consistent across everyone in the field was an absolute sheer love for the arts. Everyone I met loved experiencing it, talking about it, sharing it with others - particularly within the education sphere. Denegrating an arts institution, calling them cultural imperialists for their education programing is a goddamn travesty. How many people have they robbed of a once in a lifetime experience of interacting with a culturally significant, functional artwork? And because of what? They deem some people to be partaking in this unworthy due to their national identity and skin color? This is fucking pathetic.

I won't say cultural appropriation hasn't happened in the arts world. Greece has been battling with the English Government to get the Elgin Marbles returned to them for ages. One gallery I worked in had a Mummy in it's collection. It was originally gifted to them and when they tried to trace the provenance it was found that it was most likely smuggled out of Egypt by grave robbers. When the gallery realized this they contacted the Egyptian Government about it. The work was found to be too fragile to send back to Egypt so we were allowed to keep it for safe holding, though they stipulated we could not put it on display [which is a damn shame]. This thing isn't even being seen by the public [I saw it] and the conservators still take time to care for it and keep it in as best condition as they can - if you're going to tell me that is disrespectful I think you're insane.

Not to mention that Museums usually rely on one another for assistance and regularly collaborate. Do you honestly believe the MFA wasn't in contact with another institution based in Japan when they curated this event? Do these people honestly believe a US museum would NOT consult with counterparts in Asia regarding an exhibit on Orientalism?

SMH

[–]Stoic_Potato [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Just say X incident instead of adding gate to everything. Applying gate onto things is trying to add way more gravitas on to things that dont often need it. Is the situation dumb and uncalled for? Yes. Is it scandalous and a borderline conspiracy akin to watergate? Absolutely not. It's the same problem I have with sjws throwing oppression or bigot out there to things that are merely an inconvenience or disagreeable. It's a hail mary attempt to inflate the issue beyond what is necessary. Sorry for the rant, but adding gate to things really bothers me. Word choice can heavily distort reception of events just like how sjws constantly do and how GG was slandered in the first place.

[–]Spackolos [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well on the other hand it is a loud, obnoxious, unpleasant, rich and therefore influential minority.

[–]mnemosyne-0000#BotYourShield -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Archive links for this post:

I am Mnemosyne, goddess of memory. I remember so you don't have to.