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More Britons believe that multiculturalism makes the country worse - not better, says poll (independent.co.uk)

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[–]DJWhamoSingle Payer Proponent 29ポイント30ポイント  (4子コメント)

The problem, I would imagine, is that said "multiculturalism" is unequal: that minority cultures and diversity are lauded, while native culture and tradition are downplayed or subtly vilified.

[–]Vornnash[S] 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

The fatal flaw in such thinking is that all cultures are equal, this will never be the case. American exceptionalism is tied to our culture, that is why we are exceptional.

[–]tyrextyvek 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why we used to be exceptional.

[–]Jormundura 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yep and the foreign culture does not want to adopt to the native culture usually.

[–]imperator-vitae 33ポイント34ポイント  (40子コメント)

Because it does. Multiculturalism has little to no support from a native population, because native populations don't like being displaced and dispossessed of their land, people, and culture. The only people that push for this are people who hate their traditional culture (look at the left wing and take your pick), air-headed upper-middle class idiots looking to status-signal moral superiority, and vultures in business and public office who want to import cheap labor, and exert more political control.

Immigration, amnesty, multiculturalism, "diversity" and globalist trade bills et al are the devil in disguise, and day by day it robs us of our nation, our principles, and our future.

[–]scungillipig 8ポイント9ポイント  (6子コメント)

We are a nation of individualists who have a common goal in promoting liberty, individualism, cultural history, and property.

The constitution ties us together while allowing cultural history to define each of us differently.

In this melting pot we are expected to work together.

This does NOT mean Communism, Socialism, a Caliphate,or even extremist Christian or Jewish ideologies, and integration.

Every one of these ideas is exclusionary to others when it is forced upon them.

The State or any representative thereof, should not engage in any discrimination but an individual person or entity should be allowed some discretion when it aligns with their stated beliefs.

[–]died_inthe_wool -2ポイント-1ポイント  (5子コメント)

I think the geography ties us together as Americans. The two Americas, north and south aka the new world, have a shared culture. Certainly law and language are the main ties that bind but we think of other continents as having distinct cultures, so why not the Americas?

[–]scungillipig 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

South and central America have a lot of Socialist/Communists.

The shared culture is a bit of a myth as South America has devolved into (for a large part) a socialist/anarchist region.

[–]died_inthe_wool -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

That seems to be the theme. The ongoing conflict (civil war?) is displacing a lot of people and there is no where to go but north.

[–]scungillipig 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fix your fucking country.

Arms, they aren't for display.

[–]relee1865 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

What ties do we share? We were started as totally separate colonies by very different old world nations. We don't share language, law, religion, political views, race, etc

[–]Vornnash[S] 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's nice to see people starting to wake up, but I fear it's too late in some cases.

[–]DJWhamoSingle Payer Proponent 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have to believe we aren't alone. I have to believe we will eventually have a voice again. The idea of us collectively just giving up is just...

[–]Capitol18 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well said.

[–]Jormundura 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Could not have said it better.

[–]OrionRivers 2ポイント3ポイント  (18子コメント)

I'm about as conservative as they come, but your nativist rhetoric that has been spouted off by people in this country from the moment the Declaration of Independence was signed. With all due respect to the UK, and Europe as a whole for that matter, the US does an infinitely better job at integrating our immigrants into society than they do. Maybe it's because we have written documents clearly articulating the core principles that American believe in--and the core principles Americans expect immigrants to adopt--while European society is nothing more than a collection of distinct ethnicities. It's a lot easier to incorporate immigrants when American culture is primarily comprised of a series of universal principles, not a distinct ethnic culture. Although the demographics of the US have changed dramatically since the 18th century, the American culture has remained intact--and continues to remain intact--even with a 200+ year influx of people from different cultures.

[–]CherryCokeNixon 9ポイント10ポイント  (10子コメント)

Agree both in theory and in practice, however the far-left is encouraging the end of "assimilation" of immigrants. The reason America has succeeded with immigration over two centuries is because we have demanded assimilation into our "melting pot." The melting pot we were taught about as kids has turned into a "salad model." Instead of sharing one unique American culture, we have multiculturalism. Which, yes, is a bad thing.

[–]OrionRivers 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I absolutely agree with you.

[–]relee1865 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

The current lack of assimilation is one reason immigration has gone downhill, certainly, but there are several other aspects, as well. One glaring difference is the existence of our current welfare state. Immigrants 100 years ago either made it on their own or they left. The end. They didn't come to the U.S. to be coddled. And then, of course, is the elephant in the room that no one but Trump wants to mention: today's immigrants are not the cream of Western Europe's crop, with a similar cultural background and background of high achievement. Today's immigrants are third world stowaways who have no background operating in a high functioning society

[–]solafidesConstitutionalist 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I agree with you on all, except I think you need to clarify that you mean 'illegal' immigrants. I know of many talented, educated, and contributing legal immigrants.

[–]relee1865 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Actually, I mean plenty of legal immigrants too. Our current immigration system has tossed out quotas that would lead to the betterment of our country in favor of preferring what amount to refugees at best. Most of our legal immigrants are from the third world, when they should be culled from the best of developed countries

[–]randomtask2005 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Untrue. Most legal immigrants are the best of the best still. It's nearly impossible to get access to the U.S. unless asked due to the small quotas (it's like 60k people a year or something).

Incidentally, the insane backlog of talent is part of the reason why the U.S. is successful. Roughly 1/3 of new small business in the U.S. are started by immigrants or first generation citizens. Without immigration we'd be as screwed as Europe.

[–]relee1865 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are you saying that we only get 60k new immigrants a year? Because according to homeland security, we got 1,031,631 in 2012 and 990,553 in 2013

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States

[–]Vornnash[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Their culture is insufficient for a high functioning society, ergo they must lose it or stay at the bottom forever, dooming future generations as well.

[–]CherryCokeNixon 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

raaaaaaacccccist /s

[–]UncharminglyWitty 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're a damn fool if you think it was "cream of the crop" in early 1900s immigration. Irish were seen as no better than dirt. Pretty much anyone not from Germany France or Britain was shat on.

[–]relee1865 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Anyone in the 19th century who was able to make a transatlantic journey and remain in the country long enough to lay down roots with no welfare support system has already undergone a process of natural selection. I guarantee that process produces better immigrants than walking across an invisible line and being afforded the luxuries of a 21st century nation does.

[–]Vornnash[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

2nd and 3rd generation children of Mexican immigrants still identify with Mexico over the US right now, and their failure to get college degrees at a rate equal to that of non-Hispanic Whites is a long term problem that is not being addressed. What you say was true in the past because most immigration was from Europe which encompasses what we refer to as Western European culture, therefore assimilation was simple. I have nothing against Hispanics as an ethnicity. I have a problem with people who are not loyal to our nation, which includes leftists, don't speak English, and the general lack of desire to assimilate. However I will grant you that Islamic/Muslim people are better assimilated in the US vs UK/Western Europe.

[–]relee1865 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

the American culture has remained intact--and continues to remain intact--even with a 200+ year influx of people from different cultures.

I would strongly disagree with this statement. How much can we really say that any aspect of our society represents even the same nation that won World War II, much less going back further?

[–]OrionRivers 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

First of all, to be honest, I don't know exactly because I wasn't there. I do know that our rights to free speech are much stronger now than they were then. We also don't throw minority ethnic groups into internment camps any more. I suppose the Sicilian criminals are about equal to the Mexicans criminals coming into the US--except the Sicilians were doing it legally. Then again, American culture during WWII didn't even look the same as it did in the late-19th century when people were leaving large eastern cities to venture out west. The 1940's aren't even remotely comparable to the Old West when American Indians weren't just a group petitioning the government to remove a name from a football team, but were a legitimate threat to murder your entire family. Again, American demographics have changed dramatically and many facets of American life have evolved throughout our history, but as long as we've had the Constitution, Americans have maintained a culture that promotes same principles--and no matter how many immigrants we receive these principles have remained.

[–]relee1865 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I suppose the Sicilian criminals are about equal to the Mexicans criminals coming into the US

That strikes me as a bold assumption, given the extreme violence the cartels dole out

The 1940's aren't even remotely comparable to the Old West when American Indians weren't just a group petitioning the government to remove a name from a football team, but were a legitimate threat to murder your entire family

Just not really sure what this is supposed to mean at all. The culture was different because frontiersmen had to deal with murderous Indians? Ok.....

American demographics have changed dramatically and many facets of American life have evolved throughout our history

Not really, though. The few times in our history prior to 1965 that we loosened the restrictions on immigration, we still were getting Europeans. Granted, they were southern or Eastern European, but there's still not nearly the heterogeneity that we are witnessing today, and that still brought loads of friction

[–]MiyegomboBayartsogtSupporter 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

That is a lot if words describing why you actually believe "multiculturalism" is bad and American cultural assimilation is not just good but necessary. American culture is superior to others. That is why people from myriad failed nations come here. That is why a quarter of the population of Mexico is currently living in USA. An influx of people coming here to become English speaking Americans is good. An influx of wretched people coming to America while bitterly clinging to the cultures they are fleeing from is bad. Multiculturalism is bad. Multiculturalism will necessarily destroy the homeland. The British are watching the better parts of their country ruined by foreigners who come to conquer and change their host nation into the wrecked and ruined places they rejected by leaving. No, nativism is no vice, multiculturalism is in virtue.

[–]OrionRivers -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Basically, Europeans suck at immigration; we don't, because our culture is comprised of codified universal laws. That's why it's more important to focus on teaching immigrants about the superiority of our principles rather than ranting about them not doing things the way we were raised to do. My general problem with these multiculturalism debates is that they've historically devolved into diatribes about how X-part of American tradition is eroding, as if America ever had some monolithic traditions consistent throughout the states. The fact is that many of the traditions that people often go off about weren't even here 100 years ago, and many of them won't be here in 100 years from now. It's a fantasy to believe cultural fads have stayed consistent for any extended period of our history. These fads aren't American culture. Our principles are our culture, and they're what distinguish our superior ability to integrate immigrants from the failures in Europe.

[–]MiyegomboBayartsogtSupporter 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Europe imported a raft of Moslems. Islam is fundamentally opposed to assimulation. The Mohammadan leaves the pile of filth and oppression that is his homeland with the expressed intent of changing liberal democracies of the West into backward religious states. Moslems migrate seeking to emulate the 8th Century hellholes they leave behind. The core tenants of Islam proscribe evolution of the Moslem mind. Islam is opposed modernity, to rights for women, freedom of religion, freedom of expression, freedom of thought and quite a lot of other freedoms as well. The failure of Europe is rooted in their genocide of the Jews and blossomed when they replaced that Semetic race with the mad Mohammedan minority.

Currently, US is importing 100,000 Moslems a year. Before Islam was a force in America, the notion jihads would visit a cartoon show with murder on their Moslem minds would seem unimaginable. Now, it's banal reality. Even our homeland will struggle with these benighted imports.

[–]black_edelweiss 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here is a great video that depicts whats going on in Europe....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKDeyuM0-Og

[–]JimmyNashville 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

"Unchecked Multi-culturalism is a failed experiment" Said every leader of a country in Western Europe, be they conservative or liberal, for the last 10 years.

[–]relee1865 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

Still waiting for any of them to do anything about it, though

[–]hayclaylaybaymaysay 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

They're all scratching their asses, waiting for the USA to do something about it for them for free.

[–]Vornnash[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Because there is no solution, you can't force your culture on people, they have to willingly accept it.

[–]relee1865 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

You can stop letting people in

[–]Vornnash[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

That would require Europeans to start reproducing again at a rate that can sustain a population and keep it from aging, a problem people in the US have too.

[–]relee1865 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'd rather try to manage that issue than the problems immigration presents

[–]Yesofcoursenaturally 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I support multiculturalism in a global sense. You know, with borders.

[–]qwerty_2015 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Duh