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My best friend is extremely misogynistic. (self.TwoXChromosomes)

TheKingofTheNord が 投稿

I just need to share this with someone, and get some advice on it. This has really been bothering me for a while now.

I've known this guy since my childhood, and he always had a strong female presence in his family (unfortunately this didn't help him in respecting women). His dad left when he was young and he was raised by his mother and three sisters. As a child and teenager he was super-competitive with his youngest sister, and apparently he can't let that go as an adult. His sister is now a successful lawyer, and she invited my friend, his wife and me over for dinner last week. His sister's girlfriend was also at the party, and me and my friend were the only men there. The conversation then got around to women's rights and they were talking about how women can have a tougher time getting a job.

I notice how he starts getting really quite and occasionally makes snide comments. He has been working 2-3 jobs now for very little pay and I think the fact that his sister is well-off bothers him a lot. After a while he openly starts disrespecting them, saying that women shouldn't be considered for jobs and its a man's right to bring money into the household while his wife cooks and cleans. I tried to pull him aside to calm him down, but his wife was getting pretty upset. My sister's girlfriend then remarked on how his wife is the one supporting both of them and she is the "real man of the house." At this point he completely lost his shit, calling them all sluts and bitches. This went on for sometime and ended with his wife slapping him in the face, in front of everyone there. He quieted down but he still appeared very angry. They left shortly after but I stayed behind to talk to his sister about him.

I know he is a horrible person but this guy was my friend for most of my life and I really want to help him and make things okay for him. We went out for a drink a few days later but he didn't want to talk about it and kept on telling me to never "rely on a woman."

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[–]burnerafterreading 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean it sounds like he is having difficulty accepting where he is in life and is blaming an easy target (women), rather than owning up to his own decisions. As a best friend, you obviously want to be supportive, help him improve where he is, but at the same time just make it explicitly clear that you won't put up with that misogynistic bullshit.

[–]rmp1809 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

What decade was this guy born in? He needs to get over it. Sounds like he's not happy with the path he chose and is expressing his emotional insecurities. The women weren't talking about him, and they should be able to express views on the difficulty of women finding a job(whether or not they are right or wrong) without him getting emotional about it. It's nobody else's job to fix his shitty self esteem. If you want to help him, ask him what would truly make him happy in life and encourage him to do it. He'll never find it competing with people.

[–]Quiet-Thinker [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

It's nobody else's job to fix his shitty self esteem.

I'd hope that my friends and family would make it their job if I was really suffering from a "shitty self esteem".

[–]rmp1809 [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

They can certainly offer help, advice, and support, but it's not their job and it's something he needs to take personal responsibility for.

[–]Quiet-Thinker [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting, but are you saying he should "man up"?

[–]eye-rollLittleMissP [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

What is your obsession with assuming everyone is telling him to "man up"? No one has suggested that except you.

[–]Quiet-Thinker [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'm not trying to assume. I'm trying to get a better picture of their thoughts by asking them a question. I don't expect them to answer with a "yes", I expect them to further articulate their point.

[–]eye-rollLittleMissP [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

So stop trying to put gendered slurs into other people's mouths. It's pointless and makes you look like a troll.

"Could you further articulate this, I want to make sure I'm understanding your point."

See how much less drama inducing that is?

[–]paralingus 8ポイント9ポイント  (33子コメント)

Well, imagine how it feels when you're down on your luck career wise, and your sister who's well off starts talking about how women have harder time to get a job - then instead of trying to calm him she hits what i assume is his sore spot that he's being supported by his wife. Sure he should have kept his composure but it's not hard to imagine someone flying off the handle in that situation.

The societal pressure on women to perform well in their career isn't as big as for men, yet those that stay at home and are supported by their husband still get shit for it - and i don't think a lot of them likes that, he in that situation as a guy probably feels worthless.

[–]LtColonelSiren 9ポイント10ポイント  (31子コメント)

Would we be seeing this same sort of comment if he were being racist and blaming Latinos for his not being able to find a job?

Just because a person might feel bad, that doesn't excuse sexist (or racist) scapegoating. He should learn to behave like an adult.

[–]rmp1809 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Agreed. He may have been feeling insecure and let his temper get out of control, but he obviously has some underlying insecurities with women making money and being bread winners.

[–]Quiet-Thinker [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'd like to know where that comes from personally.

[–]danceswithronin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't think /u/paralingus is trying to justify this kind of behavior, so much as he/she is trying to make some sense of it. Obviously it's wrong, but it's coming from somewhere.

[–]paralingus -1ポイント0ポイント  (27子コメント)

You would if the situation was such that a latino having a successful career as a lawyer would complain about how latinos have it bad (and the society would hammer you with it) next to someone who's being told he has everything easy but has shit for a career.

When someone pisses you off to the point to fly off the handle, you will try to hit them with the strongest insult you can think off - often sexist, racist, or whatever you feel like that persons soft spot is, thats kind of the point of an insult.

[–]coldcoldiq 3ポイント4ポイント  (9子コメント)

You would if the situation was such that a latino having a successful career as a lawyer would complain about how latinos have it bad (and the society would hammer you with it) next to someone who's being told he has everything easy but has shit for a career.

This is also unacceptable.

[–]Quiet-Thinker [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

Oh of course it is. But that doesn't mean you can't empathise with him.

[–]coldcoldiq [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

I could perhaps sympathize with him, but I sure as hell can't empathize with that.

[–]Quiet-Thinker [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

As someone who is pretty insecure myself, I sure as hell can. I've just done a better job of holding my tongue when I know I'm speaking from anger rather than reason.

[–]coldcoldiq [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

I don't know what insecurity has to do with racism.

[–]eye-rollLittleMissP 9ポイント10ポイント  (11子コメント)

When someone pisses you off to the point to fly off the handle, you will try to hit them with the strongest insult you can think off - often sexist, racist, or whatever you feel like that persons soft spot is, thats kind of the point of an insult.

I wouldn't. What with being a grown up and that.

[–]Quiet-Thinker [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

Calling a guy with obvious insecurities childish probably isn't the best course of action.

[–]eye-rollLittleMissP [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

Calling someone who is acting like a child childish is pretty accurate.

[–]Quiet-Thinker [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Sure it is. But just because it's accurate doesn't mean it's the best course of action.

[–]eye-rollLittleMissP [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

If he doesn't want to be called childish, he shouldn't act like a child. It's not everyone else's responsibility to cater to his temper.

[–]Quiet-Thinker [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Yeah, you're right: he shouldn't expect any sympathy for his issues. So, what? He should just "man up"? Deal with it?

[–]LtColonelSiren 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

I wouldn't, and do not state that I would.

You seem to be reading a lot into this or projecting onto the stated facts. OP said this wasn't an isolated case of making an insult, but an ongoing phenomenon. OP also never states that the friend is "being told he has everything easy."

I cannot imagine a situation where I or anyone I know would frequently make racist or misogynistic comments when someone in the group mentions a hardship a race or gender faces. Different strokes for different folks.

[–]paralingus 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

I wouldn't, and do not state that I would.

I started the sentence that way because of "Would we be seeing this same sort of comment" - that yes, you would see it here, this is not to assume what you would do.

never states that the friend is "being told he has everything easy."

Nobody is telling white guys they have everything easy? Are you for real?

I cannot imagine a situation where I or anyone I know would fly into a racist or misogynistic rage when someone in the group mentions a hardship a race or gender faces.

Neither do i, but i can be sympathetic to people that perhaps don't have the same amount of composure and understand where they are coming from.

[–]LtColonelSiren -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Nobody is telling white guys they have everything easy? Are you for real?

Your position then is that he is making a political statement with his misogynistic comments. Maybe he should be penning editorials rather than taking his political stance (of outspoken misogyny due to anger at society supposedly telling him he has everything easy...see how illogical it is when spelled out like that?) out on his friends and family.

[–]paralingus 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your position then is that he is making a political statement with his misogynistic comments.

That is not my position, but good job assuming that after you just pointed out that i might have wrongly assumed something about your stance in your previous post.

I'm not defending what he did or said, i'm just stating that i can understand that awful stuff can come out if you feel cheated and someone close to you knows how to push your buttons - and it doesn't necessarily make him a horrible person as OP said, just a very very frustrated one with lack of self control.

[–]CondorCalabasas [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I agree, but I think the main issue is the choice of words. And where they were directed.

I can relate to getting angry and insulting someone.

I can't relate to calling your woman, or family members in general sluts or bitches.

[–]eatcheeseordie [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The societal pressure on women to perform well in their career isn't as big as for men

wat

[–]Larynxb 5ポイント6ポイント  (9子コメント)

Did anyone do anything about him being physically abused? Or is that just fine to that group?

[–]Gray_Squirrel [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think you know the answer to that.

[–][削除されました]  (5子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]eye-rollLittleMissP[M] [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

    Just no.

    [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]eye-rollLittleMissP [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

      Jokes are funny. That wasn't funny. Don't condescend to me, it's tedious.

      [–]k_w_dev -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I know he is a horrible person

      What? He overreacted, but TBH his sister doesn't sound very nice to him. Way to kick someone while he's down, overreaction or not. She could've tried to reason, or change the subject.......

      On a more neutral note, growing up without a positive male role model can seriously damage a man's ability to deal with women, especially siblings. You obviously know him better than I do (maybe there are more examples like this), but I wouldn't write him off because of this. If anything, it sounds like a cry for help.

      [–]coldcoldiq 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      The progression of events went thus:

      • The conversation then got around to women's rights and they were talking about how women can have a tougher time getting a job.

      • I notice how he starts getting really quite and occasionally makes snide comments.

      • After a while he openly starts disrespecting them, saying that women shouldn't be considered for jobs and its a man's right to bring money into the household while his wife cooks and cleans.

      [–]thats_not_sushi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      there could be more to it, op's accounts of the events aren't the only way they happened and by op's own admission he thinks the guy is a horrible person so there could be a bias in the way the story's told. You're also omitting the extremely insulting and derogatory remarks about him as a man made by the women, which implies a bit of a bias on your part as well

      [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

      [deleted]

        [–]eye-rollLittleMissP[M] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

        It's never a good thing that someone was physically assaulted.

        [–]krazeekatt [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        I believe he has a right to hold traditional (and outdated in my opinion) views of gender. I think it was wrong for someone to refer to a woman as "the real man" as this actually affirms his position in the first place: why should she need to be risen to the status of "man" when she is a successful woman? The problem is his outburst. I have to say, it seems that he is dealing with some issues and kind of exploded. But at the same time, for the reasons above, it is not surprising. He was put down for his personal values (which he probably knew would be unpopular, but whatever ), but then as a man struggling to fill the role he believes he should hold, then was told that the woman, the breadwinner, was a better man. Some men have a fragile confidence in their manhood as it is. His outburst and name calling were unacceptable. But the women involved were inconsiderate, lacking empathy, and kinda mean. He's not really a bad guy to me in this scenario. But he owes people apologies.

        [–]Gray_Squirrel [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        It sounds like he has deep issues stemming from childhood. Talk therapy might be good for him. Any way you can recommend this to him?

        Also, his wife is physically abusive. I'm assuming that if he slapped her, you would have said something to him? Given that you sound like an advocate of equality, you must have then said something to her for doing the same thing, right? What did she say?

        [–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

        [deleted]

          [–]coldcoldiq 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Sounds like he's having a hard time and they knew how to wind him up.

          Alternatively, they wind him up because he's a fucking asshole.

          Look, anyone can be going through shit at any given moment, but that doesn't miraculously translate into vile opinions.

          [–]Quiet-Thinker [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          Which makes me want to know where they came from. We'd have a much better overview of the situation then.

          [–]coldcoldiq [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          Sorry OP, you're going to get brigaded by a bunch of MRAs who will have found themselves in throes of deep empathy for the emasculated misogynist.

          [–]thats_not_sushi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          Without being there it's pretty hard for anyone else to understand the whole situation, but I do want to point out that his wife hitting him should not be acceptable and so easily glossed over. If the genders were reversed where a man said insulting and derogatory remarks to his wife that caused his wife to lose control in an argument and then hit her in the face this comment section would be entirely different

          [–]Quiet-Thinker [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          I don't believe that there are bad people. I believe that there are people who can do bad things.

          From what it sounds like, this person is dealing with a fair bit of insecurity. I can empathise with that a fair bit. Now when you have a discussion going on about how hard it is for women to get employed, what do you think was going on in his mind? Because I reckon it was something along the lines of "if that is true then you are saying my sister the lawyer is a genius and I appear to be worthless". I reckon this is a belief he is struggling to disprove to himself. Failing that, he makes excuses as to why that shouldn't be, from a rather archaic and sexist standpoint that it should be the man's job to provide for his family. Of course, that makes this

          My sister's girlfriend then remarked on how his wife is the one supporting both of them and she is the "real man of the house."

          an incredibly thoughtless comment.

          Now I don't know what issues he has or where they came from that made him have such misogynistic thoughts, but they need to know that they aren't worthless.