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We apologize (self.modnews)

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[–]sickhippie 32ポイント33ポイント  (4子コメント)

Still... truth now is better than more lies.

I'm still not sure why this is all accepted as truth. The statement basically boils down to this: "We know we've apologized and promised but not delivered before. Here's an apology and more promises."

There is quite literally no reason to believe anything from this spin. I know we all want to believe that they'll switch focus and get us better tools and so on, but to say "yeah, we never actually started on any of the stuff we promised months and years ago, but we're going to do it this time, for sure" just rings hollow.

So yeah, I don't accept this and neither should any other mod here until we see an actual result. Talk is cheap and actions are what matter, and the action we've seen over the last few days shows the users, moderators, and communities matter less than interviews with the media and public damage control.

[–]Thoguth 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm still not sure why this is all accepted as truth. The statement basically boils down to this: "We know we've apologized and promised but not delivered before. Here's an apology and more promises."

If instead of more lies, they wanted to come clean and start saying truth, how would it look different than what was said here? I'm fully aware that their past actions make it more difficult to trust what they say today, but the language and the framing are fairly consistent with what I'd expect from someone who had been screwing up majorly, got caught on it, and wanted to fix things. Of course, if they wanted to lie (or if they wanted to tell an optimistic wanna-be-truth, only to fail later, which I think is a more charitable way to look at it and something that I can relate to personally from my own shortcomings) it would probably be constructed to sound basically the same.

However, I asked if there's a backlog--that is, a list of features to be implemented, in small, consumable detail--with time-estimates. Most places that make software, do this. If they are actually, really planning to make this software, and they know enough about the production time to know it's going to take more than 6 months, then (either it's all a lie/stall-tactic or) there is a roadmap of some kind with features and time estimates. It might not be as precise as a backlog, but most devs will not commit to a multi-month timeframe for a project without breaking it down into smaller parts and estimating them.

So ... what does it look like? I feel like opening this up at some level is a critical step for restoring the trust that has been busted up so many times in the past.

[–]sickhippie 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

However, I asked if there's a backlog--that is, a list of features to be implemented, in small, consumable detail--with time-estimates.

I would be absolutely thrilled at a 6 month project roadmap, because it would provide the one thing that we haven't been offered (and the one thing we actually want) - an administration that's accountable. That would be a great first step.

I wouldn't say no to an enumeration of what exactly they felt their "mistakes" were, so we could say "that's not quite why we're upset" or "yes, at least we know you get it this time". That's actually the main reason I think the apology is bullshit - it sounds too much like a "sorry I got caught again" I'd get from my 12 year old trying to avoid getting grounded after getting caught for the 5th time.

[–]Thoguth 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wouldn't say no to an enumeration of what exactly they felt their "mistakes" were, so we could say "that's not quite why we're upset" or "yes, at least we know you get it this time".

They kind of did, though, didn't they?

From this post (enumeration added by me):

  • We haven’t communicated well, and
  • we have surprised you with big changes.
  • We have apologized and made promises to you, the moderators and the community, over many years, but time and again, we haven’t delivered on them.
  • When you’ve had feedback or requests, we have often failed to provide concrete results.

This looks like they're acknowledging doing wrong, what most of us think they've done wrong. The next thing you'd want to see is "this is what we're doing to make sure it doesn't happen again" which they gave next:

We are taking three concrete steps:

...With new people in new roles, and new actual features that you can verify. It's not much and it's not perfect but it does strike me as more than a simple "lol sorry" kind of lazy cover-up. It has the markings of a real desire to change. Whether they can execute on that desire might still be questionable, but it kind of looks like it's there.

[–]sirbruce -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, first, they'd have to admit they lied before. Not just, "We misunderestimated the amount of work we had to do" but instead "We told you what you wanted to hear because we wanted the blackout to end."

Second, they'd then have to accept the consequences of that. The blackout gets reinstated until they provide some new concession, not just new promises.

Third, whoever it was the lied or whoever made them lie will have to resign/get fired for doing so.