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ekjp[A] が 21時間 前 投稿x13
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[–]_Guinness -37ポイント-36ポイント-35ポイント 20時間 前 (37子コメント)
When you are the CEO of a company. EVERYTHING EVERYONE does at that company is YOUR responsibility. EVERYTHING.
[–]Froghurt 59ポイント60ポイント61ポイント 20時間 前 (28子コメント)
Then why didn't you rage against Yishan when jailbait was banned?
[–]CANOODLING_SOCIOPATH 32ポイント33ポイント34ポイント 20時間 前 (12子コメント)
Yishan is a guy, not some evil FEMALE!!!
[–]_Guinness -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 19時間 前 (5子コメント)
Yeah that is bullshit. Is that why all of reddit is up in arms about Victoria being fired?
Why do we hate Pao but love Victoria?
[–]CANOODLING_SOCIOPATH 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 19時間 前 (3子コメント)
No one knows anything about Victoria except for the fact that some of the moderators thought she did a good job.
No one knows why she was fired. Even the mods aren't criticizing her being fired as they don't know why. Maybe she incredibly racist and it was causing a problem in the workplace, we don't know.
What the mods are angry about is that their was no follow up plan for replacing her and that she was fired quickly.
[+]_Guinness スコアが基準値未満のコメント-6ポイント-5ポイント-4ポイント 19時間 前 (2子コメント)
Uh except we know plenty about Victoria and have had lots of interactions with her. You know. Cause she directed one of the most popular parts of reddit and interacted with us and her entire user history is wide open? And that she did a good job because IAMAs were fucking awesome and not censored bullshit?
Maybe she incredibly racist and it was causing a problem in the workplace, we don't know.
Yeah thats totally it. Went undetected until just last Thursday. Yessss totally a legit excuse.
Which is why they all had glowing things to say about her. You know. Because they were only angry about how it affected them. Sure.
[–]CANOODLING_SOCIOPATH 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 19時間 前 (0子コメント)
My point wasn't that she was racist, but that there are plenty of possibilities for why she was fired that are reasonable. Once again we don't know what happened.
The moderators generally liked her, but once again that doesn't mean that there were not reasons for why she would be fired.
Why do you think reddit fired her? Just because they like fucking things up? And I find it extremely silly that you call IAMA not "censored bullshit". You must not have been on reddit for very long. IAMA is one of the most heavily moderated subreddits out there and they don't just let anyone post an AMA. It is incredibly "censored" by reddit standards.
[–]Froghurt 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 17時間 前 (0子コメント)
Uh except we know plenty about Victoria and have had lots of interactions with her.
Yes, I'm sure you know more about her than her employer.
[–]itsasillyplace 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 18時間 前 (0子コメント)
Because Pao is at the top of the power structure and that rustles misogynist jimmies? While Victoria is a perfect shield for the purpose of shitting on Pao.
[+]Pester_Stone スコアが基準値未満のコメント-9ポイント-8ポイント-7ポイント 20時間 前 (0子コメント)
This is the correct answer.
[+]triangle21323 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-9ポイント-8ポイント-7ポイント 19時間 前* (4子コメント)
Don't make it about her freakin gender. That's just low. I'm sure you're right to some extent, just don't label 100% of anti-pao stuff as misogeny.
[–]CANOODLING_SOCIOPATH 18ポイント19ポイント20ポイント 19時間 前 (3子コメント)
It is about gender. It isn't "low", it is the sad truth.
Pao inherited a company that was incredibly badly run. /u/yishan even admits that he ran the company badly. And the previous CEO's didn't do a better job than him.
There has been criticism of the admins from the mods for years.
But once it is a woman in place you immediately see her face plastered everywhere, people saying that she is ugly, many photoshopped images of her in porn with photoshops of her husband.
It is sad, but it is undoubtedly true that reddit has incredibly large problem with sexism. It is naive to think that all this vitriol and hatred of Pao is not related to gender.
[–]hardolaf 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 18時間 前 (0子コメント)
Pao also sued a company that she used to work at before they fired her after providing her one-on-one mentorship and trying to make her senior partner material. Then she went on to keep claiming how they discriminated against her despite the fact that they showed the exact evidence they used to terminate her employment none of which was at all able to be contested because it was data on how much money she was bringing in from clients and what the yearly targets for a person in her role were for poor performance, satisfactory performance, and exemplary performance. They showed that after two consecutive review of poor performance due to insufficient revenue from clients, that the standard policy in their corporation was to terminate the employee.
But you know, let's just all ignore the fact that she was fired from a role not-unlike a CEO's where her job was to seek out and acquire money because she was incapable of getting clients even after one-on-one coaching paid for by the company trying to get her performance metrics to increase. And then she claimed sexism when the evidence clearly shows that she couldn't meet the minimum performance metrics needed to keep her job.
Then of course there is her husband who isn't exactly a saint either.
There are many reasons people are extremely suspicious of Ellen Pao. Anyone with her history of a very high-profile frivolous lawsuit (the jury found her claims of sexual discrimination so outlandish that the called them frivolous when delivering their verdict, i.e. there was no evidence what so ever that she was discriminated against) and a significant other who was a hedge fund manager accused of massive fraud would be very distrusted by any community.
She isn't exactly showing competence in even performing damage control. Talking only behind closed door on reddit until today. Talking to the media before addressing the community at large. It all speaks to someone that isn't CEO material.
As for sexism in the community, yes it exists. But I don't think the mods and users are this upset because of sexism. I think they are this upset because yet again the reddit administrative team have ignored the community in their actions. This probably wouldn't have been that big of a deal if it was the first time the admins ignored mods and community members. But it isn't, it's just the latest in a long string of ignoring the community and people are taking their frustrations out on Ellen Pao because she is the head. If Yishan was still the CEO, you can bet your ass they would be just as mad at Yishan. Heck, they might even be madder because he would have been around a lot longer than Ellen.
[–]triangle21323 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 19時間 前* (1子コメント)
I feel like you're personally calling me anti-woman for criticising ekjp and I just want to make it clear that that's not how I feel.
Yishan is taking responsibility for fucking up but the reaction Pao is getting is really not his fault IMO. He actually wrote a response to the FPH drama that would have nipped the whole thing in the bud if that's what the admins had posted. So he could and can do a much better job handling controversy than the admins are doing.
The reason that ekjp (and kn0thing, remember) are getting such a negative reaction is because they've done a really poor job of handling controversies. They refuse to say anything after making big controversial changes to reddit, and let conspiracy theories and other bs just snowball without ever dealing with it. When they did respond, it was kn0thing making silly comments that just spurred a larger reaction. That happened when reddit announced new core values, when they announced the new harassment policy, and when they later started banning subreddits. It was totally predictable and blew up in their faces each time. As you can see in that post I linked, yishan would have handled it differently, and that's why reddit didn't react to changes to this extent.
Misogeny is definitely a part of the reaction, because just look at the people who were a part of fph! There's tons of bigotry there. However, I don't want to feel tarred with that brush for criticising Pao, because that's not where it's coming from. But I'm 100% on board with "A good amount of the criticism, especially coming from former fph users, is sexist/misogynistic."
[–]CANOODLING_SOCIOPATH 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 18時間 前 (0子コメント)
I am not attacking you personally. I am hopeful that you are simply naive or misinformed about the situation! That way I can shed some light on it so that you can understand.
Unfortunately the majority of the anti Pao crowd is misogynistic. That is why they blame her for everything bad in the world and post extremely sexist remarks about her.
I haven't seen you personally do that. But that doesn't change the fact that the majority reason why there is all this hate is because of sexism.
And it is extremely silly to say that the hate is because they have handled controversy poorly. The hate started the second she was put in the position. Immediately people hated her and constantly posted about her lawsuit, which had nothing to do with her position at Reddit.
People hated her for removing FPH, not for how she handled the removal of FPH. How else could she have handled it. Everything that she posted was downvoted out of view because of the banning. And then she refused to allow the subreddit to recreate itself, which is far better than the handling of /r/creepshots and /r/jailbait which just became /r/CandidFashionPolice.
She killed FPH permanently. That is a far better and far bolder decision than any previous CEO had made in regards to subreddits like these.
[–]codyave 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 19時間 前 (0子コメント)
Because jailbait is on the wrong side of the fence when it comes to anti-censorship.
[+]_Guinness スコアが基準値未満のコメント-12ポイント-11ポイント-10ポイント 20時間 前 (13子コメント)
Because I didn't care that jailbait was banned? Yishan was terrible because he was the beginning of the "safe spaces" bullshit, and he's a notorious social justice warrior with ties to /r/shitredditsays
[–]LowSociety 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 20時間 前 (4子コメント)
and he's a notorious social justice warrior with ties to /r/shitredditsays
Oh, this I want to hear! Source?
[+]_Guinness スコアが基準値未満のコメント-9ポイント-8ポイント-7ポイント 20時間 前 (3子コメント)
Its in there somewhere, search through /r/tumblrinaction maybe or /r/subredditcancer.
One of the ex admins from early in reddit's days is a mod there currently. And I believe friends with Yishan. And Yishan is friends with Pao.
[–]LowSociety 15ポイント16ポイント17ポイント 19時間 前* (0子コメント)
Like I thought: mindlessly regurgitated rumors. Like always.
[–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 20時間 前 (1子コメント)
How deep does the SRS rabbit hole go???
[–]itsasillyplace 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 18時間 前 (0子コメント)
All the way to the highest centers of power. Beyond the President of these United States, right up to the Builderburgers and the Rothschilds
[–]Froghurt 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント 20時間 前 (7子コメント)
Yet he was never attacked this personal. Hm, wonder why.
[–]hardolaf 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 18時間 前 (2子コメント)
Probably because he wasn't pursuing an extremely frivolous lawsuit over sexual discrimination against a corporation and he isn't married to someone accused of defrauding hundreds of millions of dollars in a hedge fund.
[–]Froghurt -3ポイント-2ポイント-1ポイント 17時間 前 (1子コメント)
Yes, it was totes frivolous, that's why it was all over the press and women bought adspace to support her actions!
Yishan used to work for Paypal and Facebook, why didn't his personal history matter?
[–]hardolaf 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 16時間 前 (0子コメント)
The case went to a jury trial and they found the case so weak that not only did they deny her claims in full, they found them so weak to be frivolous. The judge agreed with them based on the evidence presented. She couldn't even prove any gender discrimination occurred at Kleiner Perkins of any kind.
[–]_Guinness -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 20時間 前 (3子コメント)
Because he stepped down before he started the bulk of the safe spaces changes? Look, your bullshit rhetoric of "no one likes Pao just because she is a woman" is flat out false.
Quit trying to bait the conversation in that direction.
[–]Froghurt 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 20時間 前 (2子コメント)
He stepped down because he had lost the confidence of his board of directors. He literally admits in this very own thread that he's responsible for the mess reddit is currently in.
[+]_Guinness スコアが基準値未満のコメント-6ポイント-5ポイント-4ポイント 20時間 前 (1子コメント)
I never talked about WHY he stepped down. WHY he stepped down does not matter. Are you even reading what I am saying? Or do you just have this ideal conversation going on in your head about how smug you are?
[–]Froghurt -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 17時間 前 (0子コメント)
AD HOMINEM
[–]fps916 33ポイント34ポイント35ポイント 20時間 前 (7子コメント)
That's some serious level of micro-management you wish upon all CEOs
[–]fatmama923 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 20時間 前 (2子コメント)
Lol, I work for a fortune 500 company. I guarantee the CEO doesn't give a flying fuck if my store fires a cart wrangler. That guy is an idiot. The CEO cannot possibly be responsible for everything, that's insane.
[–]TheRain 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 18時間 前 (1子コメント)
This isn't IBM, it's reddit. Given all of Pao's work on gender in the workplace, I think she'd know the role that one of her most important female employees had, and that she made one of her biggest subreddits work.
[–]poo-poo 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 17時間 前 (0子コメント)
80 employees, how could anyone manage all those people?
[–]_Guinness -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 19時間 前 (2子コメント)
micro management is not responsibility. What do you not understand about leadership? Leaders take responsibility. For everything. They don't stand up and throw someone else under the bus.
[–]Treeducks 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 18時間 前 (1子コメント)
Which she hasn't.
[–]fps916 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 16時間 前 (0子コメント)
*Thrown anyone under the bus. In case it wasn't clear. I know a lot of you are going to read that as she hasn't taken responsibility.
[–]Ampres -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 19時間 前 (0子コメント)
No it's not, that's just how management works.
Yes you get to delegate the doing of things to subordinates so that things get done, but you sure as shit better claim responsibility when things go wrong.
π Rendered by PID 3359 on app-219 at 2015-07-07 15:17:26.048747+00:00 running 92924a1 country code: JP.
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