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[–]ekjp[S,A] 2074ポイント2075ポイント  (1983子コメント)

  1. Here's our definition of harassment: Systematic and/or continued actions to torment or demean someone in a way that would make a reasonable person (1) conclude that reddit is not a safe platform to express their ideas or participate in the conversation, or (2) fear for their safety or the safety of those around them. We allow organized campaigns to reach appropriate points of contact, but not individual employees who have nothing to do with the issues.
  2. We did not ban u/huhaskldasdpo. I looked into it and it looks like they deleted their account. We don't know why.
  3. We're focused on ads and gold. We're conservative in how we allow advertising on reddit: We always label ads and sponsored content, and we will continue. We also ban flash ads and protect our users privacy by protecting user data.
  4. I want to make the site as open as possible, bring as many views and ideas as possible and protect user privacy as much as possible. I love the authentic conversations on reddit and want more people to enjoy them and learn from them. We can do this by making it easier for people to find the content and communities that they love.

[–]wachet 365ポイント366ポイント  (912子コメント)

Regarding #3, how sustainable is it that reddit will be kept going only on these two sources of income? Is there a present or anticipated necessity to monetize more aggressively?

[–]Zerei 634ポイント635ポイント  (280子コメント)

I'll eat a shoelace made out of pasta if she ever answers this on this thread.

[–]GigaJuice 41ポイント42ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wait... Isn't this just spaghetti?

[–]Zerei 28ポイント29ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shh... Play it cool man, play it cool...

[–]eggswithcheese 38ポイント39ポイント  (23子コメント)

OP...delivers?

I'm interested in seeing what comes of this.

[–]Zerei 11ポイント12ポイント  (22子コメント)

Why are you so interested? It will be a video of me eating a shoelace made out of spaghetti stuff.

[–]eggswithcheese 12ポイント13ポイント  (15子コメント)

I like spaghetti!

[–]LWRellim 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

Why are you so interested? It will be a video of me eating a shoelace made out of spaghetti stuff.

It would be a lot funnier if you had said pasta made out of shoelaces...

Be thankful you didn't accidentally word it that way.

;-)

コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

    [–]ekjp[S] 1699ポイント1700ポイント  (221子コメント)

    Pics or it didn't happen. :)

    [–]Zerei 665ポイント666ポイント  (103子コメント)

    Well then... pics when I get home I suppose.

    Edit: Small announcement: I thought I had fettuccine or spaghetti at home. Funny thing...... :) I don't. Gonna have to buy when I get home from work tomorrow to record the video. Please don't kill me D:

    [–]IIIISuperDudeIIII 112ポイント113ポイント  (18子コメント)

    We're going to hold you to this.

    [–]Zerei 193ポイント194ポイント  (13子コメント)

    Am I being detained?

    [–]IIIISuperDudeIIII 72ポイント73ポイント  (7子コメント)

    You are free to go. But we'll be watching you, buddy.

    [–]travcurtis 21ポイント22ポイント  (3子コメント)

    What!? I fully expect a pic of /u/Zerei eating a shoelace in under 12 hours.

    EDIT: Made of pasta.

    [–]O-2-L 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    2hrs ago when I checked the post it was one long thread of joke buzzfeed headlines.

    Now some guys got to eat his shoelaces...

    Love you internet...

    [–]ADHD7 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    *Sounds of pitchforks sharpening in background

    [–]PUSClFER 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Every breath you take, every move you make, every bond you break, every step you take.

    We'll be watching you

    [–]noafro1991 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    You are. You have to entertain us.

    コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

      [–]Lynchbread 42ポイント43ポイント  (2子コメント)

      You do realize that a shoe lace made out of pasta is just a piece of spaghetti?

      コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

        [–]CaptainGroin 138ポイント139ポイント  (9子コメント)

        WE DIT IT!!

        [–]ah64a 24ポイント25ポイント  (9子コメント)

        We'll be here waiting...pls deliver op

        [–]Zerei 12ポイント13ポイント  (8子コメント)

        It will take a few hours. Don't hold your breath. Or do, I don't own you.

        [–]SoraXavier 16ポイント17ポイント  (4子コメント)

        Years of swimming competitively have prepared me for this exact moment.

        [–]Zerei 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Your video could be more interesting than mine. Mind sharing this moment?

        [–]SoraXavier 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

        It's a lot like that episode of friends where Joey holds his breath.

        In fact, I'm gonna go watch that now.

        コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

          [–]CrippledOrphans 15ポイント16ポイント  (9子コメント)

          IT"S BEEN 12 MINUTES OP! YOU GONNA DELIVER OR WHAT?

          [–]Zerei 29ポイント30ポイント  (8子コメント)

          You guys are needy. You do realise that a shoelace made out of pasta stuff is just ol' regular spaghetti, right?

          [–]ImOkayAtStuff 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

          if you like flat laces then it is linguini or fettuccini

          [–]Zerei 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

          I have one sneaker, and it has round laces. It will be spaghetti. It is written.

          [–]Team_Slacker 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

          What happened to the second sneaker? I MUST KNOW!

          [–]Skelevader 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Regular old spaghetti that has first been laced through the eyelets of a shoe.

          コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

            [–]fucking_passwords 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Wait a minute, a shoelace made of pasta?

            So a piece of spaghetti? You're gettin off easy...

            [–]getoverit_now 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

            RemindMe! 1 Day

            [–]Zerei 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

            I promised a shoelace made of pasta down my throat in a few hours. You're gonna miss the "OP delivered" circlejekr if you wait until tomorrow.

            [–]getoverit_now 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

            You know I called a bot... Anyway, I'll be watching this spot!

            [–]Zerei 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I know, I've used this bot before. Just letting you know that shits going down much sooner, you don't wanna miss it.

            [–]HidingFromThoughts 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

            RemindMe! 6 hours

            コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

              [–]ArgonNightmare 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

              This is what we really came to the thread for anyways.

              pulls out camper chair and popcorn

              [–]O2C 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

              This isn't too bad:

              1. Have a new or really clean pair of shoes.
              2. Make some spaghetti.
              3. Lace it through said shoes.
              4. [Optional] Pour sauce on said shoes.
              5. Eat said spaghetti.

              [–]urbaneyezcom 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

              It's gotta be video. Pics will not suffice. Laces out Finkle!

              [–]AmerikanInfidel 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

              It's been an hour? Are you ok?

              [–]Velharnin 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Apparently /u/ekjp is just like the rest of us, get rekt by the CEO man

              コメントをもっと表示する (32 返事)

                [–]rottinguy 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                He said a shoelace made out of pasta, all he has to do is string a spaghetti through a shoe.

                [–]kungpaochickens 14ポイント15ポイント  (3子コメント)

                You heard the woman. Give her the pictures.

                [–]Mischieftess 96ポイント97ポイント  (15子コメント)

                Well, it seems you're learning how reddit works now.

                [–]buttcomputing 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Looks like you answered the second half of the question but not the first half. How sustainable are sidebar ads and gold as sources of income? Is there any plan to include other forms of advertisement, say, sponsored links that appear among the regular links?

                [–]lula2488 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Send photo

                [–]halfar 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

                SENPAI NOTICED US

                (◕O◕✿)

                [–]EmJay115 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Glad to see you have a sense of humor. Honestly, I think communicating with reddit is the only way this will get sorted out. You're on the right track. Just don't screw up again and start fixing things Ellen!

                [–]Ryzzer 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                reply != answer

                Still want pics.

                コメントをもっと表示する (89 返事)

                  [–]dabokii 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  shoelace made of pasta? spaghetti?

                  [–]zzyyzzyyzz 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  isnt that just pasta?

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                    [–]ekjp[S,A] 570ポイント571ポイント  (596子コメント)

                    We just received over $50 million in funding last year, so we don't have a need to monetize more aggressively. We're being careful in how we invest our new funding, and plan to keep the site as quirky and authentic as it is today. We're focused on helping more people appreciate reddit.

                    [–]got_milk4 128ポイント129ポイント  (18子コメント)

                    We just received over $50 million in funding last year, so we don't have a need to monetize more aggressively.

                    Wouldn't this be the opposite? The more funding reddit receives, the bigger the push becomes to maximize profit to return to the shareholders. Are the investors really investing in reddit without the expectation of their investment returned with profit?

                    [–]timdorr 113ポイント114ポイント  (12子コメント)

                    Depends on the investors. If they have good ones, then the concentration will be on growing sustainably and creating long term value. If they have bad ones, they'll gut this place until it's a shitty link farm.

                    The good news is it appears they have some of the very best investors. Seriously, Sam Altman, Peter Thiel, and Marc Andreessen are some of the smartest, strongest investors in the game. They're not going to try and flip this business to make a quick buck.

                    [–]got_milk4 23ポイント24ポイント  (6子コメント)

                    They're not going to try and flip this business to make a quick buck.

                    And they are still only 3 of the 15 investors who contributed the $50 million for reddit's last round of funding.

                    Even if some of them don't want a quick buck - and I hope that nobody investing in reddit expects a fast return - there's still an expectation to grow the business and get the return on their investment at some point. The need is still there, despite what Ellen claims. How great that need is could be insignificant at this time, but it will grow as time passes.

                    [–]timdorr 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    I just mentioned those 3 because they're probably the most notable members of this round. Everyone else, with the exception of Snoop and Jared Leto (simply because I don't know their investment history), are all well-known, trustworthy, smart investors. I would find it shocking if any of them took the quick buck route, and it would be devastating to their careers for them to do so.

                    Also, investors normally exercise control over their investment via board (of directors) seats. There are a handful of these and each investor does not get a seat. So, certain investors have more control and power to be able to effect these kinds of changes. Most of those 15 investors are, frankly, just wallets. And even if there was a bad apple in the group, there's enough raw brainpower in the mix to cancel out any dumb suggestions.

                    The majority always wins and in this case, it's a great majority.

                    [–]Valnar 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    I think that's why she said that reddit doesn't need to monatize as aggressively, emphasis on the as aggressively part.

                    Reddit still needs to expand its monetization, but it can be done at a more methodical pace with the vc funding.

                    [–]Bel_Marmaduk 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    In an investment partnership, everyone is on the same ship and the destination is profit. If 3 of the 15 investors we know about are long term players and big names in investment, chances are pretty good that this is being considered as a long term investment. There's not going to be 12 slimy guys slamming their hands on the table and demanding Reddit seed malware in the advertisements or whatever people think is going to happen.

                    There's no reason to assume doom and gloom automatically. Don't get caught up in the jerk.

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                          [–]1-900-USA-NAILS 52ポイント53ポイント  (2子コメント)

                          So if you're not actively working to monetize reddit, what exactly have you and you staff been doing for the past ~2 years?

                          You don't moderate your website - you have unpaid volunteers do that.

                          You don't manage your website - you don't communicate with your users or even the people who moderate your website for you.

                          You don't create content - you have users do that.

                          You don't update your website - upgrades are always "coming soon", or you rely on third-party extensions built by unpaid volunteers to fix the most broken parts of your site.

                          You don't manage your code base - you've been ignoring pull requests since 2013.

                          You don't sell ads - that process is automated.

                          So again, what is it exactly that you guys do all day?

                          [–]rburp 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          So again, what is it exactly that you guys do all day?

                          If the site they run is any indication, they probably sit in a circle and masturbate.

                          コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                            [–]raldi 107ポイント108ポイント  (16子コメント)

                            Careful -- in September 2008, Digg received $28 million in funding, and the entire site fell apart less than two years later. I'll never know what was going on inside, but from the outside, it certainly looked like their investors had been using their purchased clout to steer the ship toward aggressive monetization, and those changes led to their losing their audience.

                            I'm not saying that has to happen to everyone in that situation -- I'm just saying please be careful!

                            [–]sbjf 27ポイント28ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            I really hope this doesn't happen to reddit, but at the same time I wonder how and with what tools and in which timeframe they intend to become profitable. As other people have pointed out, it's funding, not a donation. The people who contributed will want to see some work done on towards creating some return on their investment.

                            Also, the number of people employed at reddit has gone up steadily. They're definitely not all developers and sysadmins that keep the site running, so it'd be interesting to have updates on what they are doing too.

                            And about the funding: I'd be interested in an approximate breakdown on where the money is coming from and where the expenses are going, and where they think there's potential for improvement. But since reddit isn't a public company, I doubt we'll ever see that.

                            And in case anyone doesn't know who /u/raldi is, since he didn't distinguish his comment: he was one of the early admins on the site.

                            [–]nosecohn 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Honestly, it doesn't even take steering towards aggressive monetization to bring one of these communities down. We call it "social news" or a "news aggregator," but what it really is is democratic news, and as soon as the community starts to feel it's not democratic (which is what happened to Digg and feels like what's starting here), the site is sunk.

                            To continue your metaphor, this business model navigates a very narrow channel where trust with the userbase is both essential and difficult to maintain. Even a small course deviation can put it irretrievably on the rocks.

                            [–]LegendaryStickMan 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            Perhaps Pao plans to run the site into the ground so bad, she can take that money and run once Reddit is gone. The lawsuits don't seem to be making enough coin for her.

                            [–]stationhollow 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Lol spent $28 million and the site went from a valuation of around $150 million to half a million.

                            コメントをもっと表示する (10 返事)

                              [–]Stikes 31ポイント32ポイント  (4子コメント)

                              Waiting for shoelace eating gif

                              [–]Zerei 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

                              I need to make a gif even?

                              [–]Theory5 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                              This is reddit after all... Get to it!

                              [–]Zerei 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              I thought the process was:

                              OC Makes video > Someone takes screen caps and post JPGs > Someone else adds more JPGs and gets to the frontpage > We get a gif out of the video > Someone links the JPGier version as source.

                              [–]IPhone6SroseGold 180ポイント181ポイント  (445子コメント)

                              Ellen, this is important.

                              You said you aren't banning ideas - great.

                              But whenever someone tries to create a fat hate subreddit, it is immediately banned. These people have no relationship to FPH mods and have added strict anti harassment rules.

                              If you aren't banning an idea - no matter how terrible - why are you automatically banning every fat hate subreddit created? Is a fat hate subreddit ever allowed to exist on reddit again?

                              If IAMA was banned for harassment, would you also ban every single replacement AMA subreddit?

                              [–]Mapleyy 93ポイント94ポイント  (25子コメント)

                              Well, it's intended as a successor to a banned subreddit, I guess? I think a few of them had a message citing "ban evasion" as the reason for that.

                              [–]raedeon 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Several of the "Ban evasion" subs were created months before FPH was banned.

                              [–]IPhone6SroseGold 39ポイント40ポイント  (21子コメント)

                              Yep, that was the reason given. I just don't understand how it's ban evasion if it's not the original mods making the subreddit. It's the same "idea" a but totally different creators and rules. It sounds like banning an idea to me..

                              [–]AnOnlineHandle 37ポイント38ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              There are other fat criticism groups like fatlogic which were never banned, and are just as big.

                              They were banning behavior, and it's against the rules to make a replacement to try and get around a ban, has been for years, and this has all happened before, long before Pao was around. Too many new people high on drama to even know that this policy has nothing to do with Pao's arrival, lol.

                              [–]frymaster 39ポイント40ポイント  (17子コメント)

                              I just don't understand how it's ban evasion

                              at the time, they said successor subreddits wouldn't be banned unless they were harassing others

                              the problem is, of course, that the successor subreddits immediately started doing that. I'm assuming it got to the stage that they had to assume any attempt would be in bad faith*

                              While I hope no one wants it, I'd like to see reddit return to the state where such a subreddit could be created

                              * which is a strange concept given the subject matter but nm

                              [–]TinyEarl 14ポイント15ポイント  (13子コメント)

                              the problem is, of course, that the successor subreddits immediately started doing that

                              Bull fucking shit. They banned fat-hating subs that didn't have even a single post on them. They even banned some that were set to private.

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                                  [–]ConcordApes 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  It may be a successor to the content. But it does not mean it is a successor to the behavior... which we still have not received a solid answer on yet.

                                  [–]bmacisaac 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Also known as banning an idea.

                                  [–]Okichah 35ポイント36ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                  Not to defend anyone, but a cooling off period for subreddit topics that have proven to be hot-beds for illicit activity isn't necessarily an undermining action. Like if /r/trees started giving advice on how to get weed illegally,(ie; trafficking from Colorado), it would get shut down. Of course a flurry of pothead type subreddits would pop-up to replace it. But because people are still looking for the "illegal content" theres a potential for that to seep in and require more shut downs. But if you shut down all subreddits relating to pot for a few weeks, eventually people get tired of the subject of trafficking and fresh content can be posted without the threat of that "seepage".

                                  Of course, its just a theory.

                                  [–]Papa_Sugar 27ポイント28ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                  /r/darknetmarkets is literally a sub only about illicit activities; complete with links to illegal websites, a dedicated what to buy weekly thread, and a dedicated weekly sell your shit thread. I'm very curious if anyone knows the logic for why that sub avoids a ban. Not that I want it banned. The sub is very useful to me. I'm just curious about the logic.

                                  [–]Adderkleet 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  I assume it's not banned since it's not harassing people, and Okichah's example was a little metaphorical - or, reddit's okay with illicit material trading advice.

                                  [–]CIV_QUICKCASH 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Shhh don't tell them.

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                                    [–]IPhone6SroseGold 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    I wouldn't mind that if admins were clear about what was happening! I just think admins are saying one thing (not banning ideas) and then doing something else altogether

                                    [–]Okichah 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    Its the same theory as shadowbanning, if people dont know the logic behind the automation then they cant work around it. If they know the logic then its easier to subvert.

                                    Again, just a theory. No idea if thats whats in play here, but its a shit theory imho, because its basically a secret police enforcing secret laws with no accountability.

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                                      [–]LowSociety 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      If it's about opinions why was fatlogic never banned? FPH was banned for behavior, and that behavior is unlikely to change when everyone from there moves to a new house. FL was never banned because they behave.

                                      [–]Nomihodai 32ポイント33ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                      Ellen, this is important.

                                      Nope not important at all.

                                      [–]Thompson_S_Sweetback 16ポイント17ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                      But how else will fat people learn that we hate them?

                                      [–]Thin-White-Duke 16ポイント17ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                      You don't need a sub for that.

                                      Source: Am fat, and reddit constantly lets me know I am a worthless piece of shit.

                                      [–]DownvoteMeansAgree 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      But how else will fat people learn that we hate them have a repressed fat fetish that compels us to obsess over them constantly?

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                                        [–]helljoe 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                        You're bitching about reddit banning subreddits that are entirely devoted to spreading hate about overweight people?

                                        The AMA comparison is stupid because an AMA subreddit is not designed with the purpose of spreading hate.

                                        [–]IPhone6SroseGold 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        I don't mean to defend the content of FPH - I find it absolutely disgusting and offensive.

                                        What I do want to defend is their right to say it - no matter how fucked up I believe it is. And reddit says they aren't banning ideas (that aren't illegal). So I just think that reddit should stick to that promise, and if they don't want to stick to it, change it. Be clear.

                                        [–]BestCaseSurvival 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        That's kind of what 'free speech platform' means. Organizations that are serious about free speech often have to allow seriously distasteful content. The alternative is a system in which there are, in a very real sense, no protections against free speech. If the ruling body can decide that free speech is universal 'except for those guys, because I said so' then freedom of speech is no longer a right in that system, but a privilege that can be revoked for any group at any time.

                                        Privilege meaning, of course, private law.

                                        Exceptions to the overarching established right, if not enforced clearly and consistently, veer away from the current trend of governing by consent of the governed and into shadier political territory.

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                                          [–]wachet 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                          Thanks for the response.

                                          We're focused on helping more people appreciate reddit.

                                          Is this part of making reddit a "safe space"? It can be intimidating to post here as a newbie, yes, but authenticity goes hand-in-hand with some risk of negative contact, bullying, trolling, etc.

                                          [–]digital_end 19ポイント20ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                          Defaults should be safe (So far as there should be defaults, which I don't really agree with)... But non-default subs should not. You are choosing to go to them.

                                          If they brigade as a policy or don't work to minimize brigade behavior after warnings, yes action is needed. If they break laws, yes of course.

                                          However, I honestly don't care if people are assholes in their own area. Just so it doesn't have an impact outside of that area.

                                          [–]nemoid 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                          How do you plan on giving your investors a return on their investment, then?

                                          [–]themdeadeyes 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          That's the golden question holding together a huge bubble in the Valley.

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                                            [–][削除されました]  (60子コメント)

                                            [deleted]

                                              [–]hpdefaults 35ポイント36ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                              Oh, come on, it's perfectly normal/legitimate to refer to venture capital as "funding."

                                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funding#Methods_of_Funding

                                              This kind of cynical over-analysis of every word she says that keeps happening in this thread is not helping the conversation.

                                              [–]Mr_Strangelove_MSc 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              Yeah WTF. It's not like they received 50 Mio in donation.

                                              [–]themdeadeyes 21ポイント22ポイント  (38子コメント)

                                              I don't think you know what "Venture Capital" (which isn't a proper noun) means or how investment funding works or even how normal businesses work. VC investors get their money back because they have equity in a high-risk, high-reward company and most of them burn out pretty quickly. If any type of investment doesn't "require a return" (whatever the shit that means) it's VC funding, which is why it requires a huge amount of money to get into.

                                              Plus, they've been owned or majority controlled by one of the largest publishing corporations in the country since 2006. They just suddenly changed this month to be "more marketable to corporations" even though they have been trying and failing to develop a reliable revenue stream and have been given leeway to do that for nearly a decade?

                                              [–]forgottenCode 2ポイント3ポイント  (33子コメント)

                                              If any type of investment doesn't "require a return" (whatever the shit that means) it's VC funding

                                              I don't understand this at all, so maybe you can explain further. Your argument here is that the venture capitalists who invested in reddit did so without any expectation of making money off of the deal?

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                                                [–]WadeWilsonFisk 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                This has nothing to do with anything but your username: I've been watching Futurama for well over a decade and I only just realized that Bender is likely humorously named after a drinking "bender" and not for bending girders!

                                                I feel like such a chumpette.

                                                [–]Bespectacled_Gent 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                It's what we in the biz call a "double entendre."

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                                                    [–]lolthr0w 27ポイント28ポイント  (29子コメント)

                                                    To add on to your question:

                                                    Reddit took $50 million from venture capitalists in 2014, and now they want a return on their investment. How is reddit going to provide this return? Will it be by spending more money to create mod tools for the community (heh), or will it be something like this:

                                                    AMA Boost!™ For just $25,000 a team of reddit community managers will make sure the best questions for you are given a quiet boost in visibility!

                                                    NEW AMA™ Video from Paul Rudd, star of Ant-Man: In Theaters July 17! Get 5% off on your ticket using the code: SELLOUT

                                                    RedditGifts™ 2015! This year's theme is Xbox™! Gift Xbox™ games and accessories and receive 3 free reddit™ gold tokens! Sponsored by Doritos™ Dew it right!™

                                                    You don't invest $50 million into a website without seeing a plan with a timeline on exactly how they're going to monetize this place. How are they planning to monetize reddit? Reddit gold? How are we supposed to trust the word of admins when it's their job to provide a return on this investment? It's not their job to be truthful to us. We're just the product they're selling!

                                                    How do you propose we act regarding this obvious conflict of interest?

                                                    [–]Broken_Toys 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                    Making something profitable is probably the best way to keep it going. However, many make the mistake of ruining what they are trying to profit from.

                                                    I don't mind some things, like special offers, promo codes, ads and the like as long as they don't interfere with my enjoyment of the sites and doesn't screw with the moderators.

                                                    Spamming the AMA would be a terrible idea for Reddit but I wouldn't mind them having a "Promotional AMA" subreddit where people could promote their movies (such as Rampart) while keeping the real IAmA subreddit "pure". Hell, add some special offers to the promo subreddit and be honest about what it is wouldn't be bad at all. If anything it would get that Rampart crap out of where it doesn't belong.

                                                    I wouldn't mind product related subreddits as long as they were honest and not trying to pollute other subreddits. Throw in some coupons and some interesting content and I would check them out. (Who doesn't like coupons?)

                                                    I think that investors could make good money here as long as they were honest and used a bit of sense.

                                                    "Selling out" can be done right and it can be done wrong. It is usually done wrong because it is done by investors who are out of the loop and completely unfamiliar with the product or service they are trying to milk. As a result they can easily kill a golden goose.

                                                    They will probably fuck it up this time too but if (for once) it was done right it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

                                                    [–]multiple_bear 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                    Yeah, you're hilarious. Pat on the back-- upboats all around.

                                                    On a serious note: is there any actual evidence that supports Reddit selling out? You have provided some wonderful speculation packaged with great emotional arguments. However, if the Reddit admins know anything, they know they alienate a huge portion of their user base the moment they sell out.

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                                                        [–]SingularTier 86ポイント87ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                        Thank you for your time. Especially replying with info concerning the shadowban - this has been thrown around a lot and it's good to get some stuff cleared up.

                                                        Regarding #1, It concerns me that "reddit as a platform not being safe" seems subjective. The 'report' card gets thrown around a lot as a tool to silence critics and dissent.

                                                        A better definition of what constitutes a "safe platform" would be appreciated. Would openly criticizing viewpoints expressed publicly either elsewhere or on site constitute harassment?

                                                        For hypothetical, if a user on twitter used their account to organize a campaign a community disagreed with (be it a political or social movement), would it be harassment to link their website/twitter in a submission critiquing their reasoning?

                                                        Now, what if the same thing was done without the critiquing - Merely as an advocacy that it's happening?

                                                        There's a huge grey area here and I hope you can see people's fear of being silenced through the 'report' card.

                                                        As for the other points, I appreciate your input and I approve of your commitment to labeling ads and sponsored content.

                                                        Again, thanks for your time. I appreciate it.

                                                        [–]GYP-rotmg 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                        I would love it to be more defined/objective as well. But this is a private company's policy; they need some leeway in enforcing their policy. We can't really expect it to be laid out like laws (even laws is vague and sometimes up to interpretation).

                                                        [–]SingularTier 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        I guess that's true and entirely legitimate.

                                                        If shadowbans weren't used so much perhaps I wouldn't be so skeptical of the definition. I don't expect an answer now either as it's a tough problem to solve in an open thread.

                                                        I just want to point out that a blanket enforcement policy would be appreciated.

                                                        [–]saganispoetry 442ポイント443ポイント  (256子コメント)

                                                        If that is your definition of harassment that it takes to remove/censor a subreddit, you have a lot of work cut out for you and this place is going to look like a ghost town soon.

                                                        [–]canadiancarlin 423ポイント424ポイント  (158子コメント)

                                                        A ghost town, where r/Coontown is still inexplicably allowed to exist.

                                                        [–]Mapleyy 312ポイント313ポイント  (47子コメント)

                                                        I've got most active CTown posters (around 3500 or so) tagged. For the most part, they don't talk shit about other users on the site or actively harass them, but just generally make overtly derogatory comments about blacks in general – which is why they haven't been banned, as much as one might hope.

                                                        [–]Purpleclone 32ポイント33ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                        Sure wish I had the patience to do that. Would make browsing around /r/politics and /r/worldnews a whole lot more interesting.

                                                        [–]Mapleyy 34ポイント35ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                        It does, I'll assure you – especially when topics of race and immigration are brought up.

                                                        [–]whizzer0 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                        RES has a settings export function, doesn't it?

                                                        [–]TheLionFromZion 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        I think so, I'd love to get those tags added to my RES.

                                                        [–]voodoo_curse 14ポイント15ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                        /r/masstagger

                                                        [–]ganner 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                        I think coontown's existance is some pretty serious evidence against viewpoint censorship. They can be as hateful as they want as long as they don't brigade and they don't harass individuals.

                                                        [–]VoatOrGTFO 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                        You tagged 3500 people?

                                                        Ain't nobody got time fo dat!

                                                        [–]OneBurnerToBurnemAll 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        to be fair that seems to go for irl too. You wouldn't know half the people in my town were klan unless you brought up some black topic like affirmative action or something. They have no problems working with or serving the blacks that live here, though. But you namedrop POTUS or Sharpton, hoooo boy you're 60 years in the past.

                                                        [–]reticulated_python 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                        So, if they were to direct those kinds of comments towards one particular black person, would that constitute harassment?

                                                        [–]Mapleyy 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Perhaps – I'm not sure. I'd always interpreted Pao's (ambiguous) comments on the subject as seeing users banned for harassment towards other users on Reddit, but I can't be sure.

                                                        /u/ekjp – any clarification?

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                                                          [–]CRCasper 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                          How do you tag that many users from a specific sub reddit?

                                                          [–]Mapleyy 20ポイント21ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                          Automation. Tools for doing so do exist elsewhere, but as a few words of caution:

                                                          • Don't blindly downvote them if you see them or mass-downvote them! That still constitutes brigading.

                                                          • They do make reasonable, helpful, and intelligent comments on other subreddits; for example, while /r/European is blatantly Islamophobic and xenophobic, some users, /u/Kestyr comes to mind in particular, pop up on other subreddits quite frequently and offer interesting insight on, well, many things.

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                                                              [–]curiiouscat 19ポイント20ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                                              I think it's more worrying the consistently racist comments up voted to the top of defaults like /r/videos. People like to use /r/Coontown as some scapegoat, but the racism is everywhere on this website.

                                                              [–]BlackBlarneyStone 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              they shouldn't get banned just because of their opinions. I have never seen that sub harass an individual. they pretty much keep to their little racist circlejerk

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                                                                [–]RapidDinosaur 69ポイント70ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                                                What Reddit are you using where the majority of the site would pass the harassment test /u/ekjp laid out? Most of the subs I frequent are full of people who are pretty decent to each other.

                                                                I think that definition is actually pretty reasonable. I'm more concerned if it can ever be consistently or fairly applied.

                                                                [–]ePants 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                The problem is not their definition of "harassment", but the ambiguous definition of "safe", because for some reason people think that safety includes their feelings, which leads to censorship of contrasting views.

                                                                If people feel like reddit is not a safe place to express their opinions simply because their feelings get hurt by other people expressing their own contrasting opinions, then they can just claim they're being harassment and have the other group censored.

                                                                Kind of like what happened with the HAES movement and FPH.

                                                                And again with all the shadowbans for people questioning that decision.

                                                                And again with all the duplicate FPH subs that were banned as fast as they could spawn, even though they weren't breaking any rules (several didn't even exist long enough to gain more than a few subscribers and posts).

                                                                And again with the posts disappearing from both the front page and from /r/new that mention voat.co in a positive way (negative posts about voat.co aren't removed, so it's not a filter, but a deliberate censoring of content).

                                                                [–]Esteluk 33ポイント34ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                                That says a lot more about Reddit communities than it does about harassment policies :/.

                                                                That said, the overwhelming of subreddits that I spend time in aren't anything like that. Niche interests and local-issues just don't need to go there.

                                                                [–]gm4 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                You don't seem to be comprehending the policy. This is entirely subjective. "Any reasonable person" to whom? How can I get things banned because I don't feel safe to express my opinion? I have been brigaded several times by SRS, now they are just smart enough to not tell everyone they are being brigaded. This is mostly horse-shit.

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                                                                  [–]cywydd 63ポイント64ポイント  (45子コメント)

                                                                  Perhaps that means reddit is an awful place. If people actually fear for their safety and/or are afraid of speaking in a place, that is a bad place.

                                                                  [–]d1squiet 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                  I think it depends what reddit being a "safe platform" means. Does it mean safe from being called names or offended? Or safe from actual (online or real world) ramifications.

                                                                  [–]tadcalabash 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                  My criteria for harassment has always been length and/or breadth.

                                                                  If you say something mean to me once or twice, that's not harassment.

                                                                  If you repeatedly and consistently follow me around to attack, that's harassment.

                                                                  If you organize a group of people to all attack at once, that's harassment.

                                                                  [–]LawOfTangents 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                  It also says a "reasonable," person, which is a bit vague. I would think a reasonable person can take an insult without feeling reddit is a dangerous place...

                                                                  What is clear though is that it has to be "Systematic and/or continued actions." This means that if I reply to your comment and call you an idiot or an asshole, you can't claim I was harassing you. I wasn't being very nice, but I would have target you at least more than once.

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                                                                    [–]reddit11 1138ポイント1139ポイント  (410子コメント)

                                                                    1) SRS. I have seen them harrassing countless times and no action has been taken. Care to explain?

                                                                    [–]AsAChemicalEngineer 778ポイント779ポイント  (129子コメント)

                                                                    Let me dredge up the admin quote, but SRS is a reddit boogeyman now. They haven't been frightfully active in causing problems in a long time and people often blame them for things before SRS even catches wind of something. People who brigade from there get banned like everyone else and the admins have deemed the mod team capable of controlling the sub enough that the sub has not been banned. This was not the case for PCMR or FPH. PCMR however was resurrected and fixed itself.

                                                                    Edit: See here: https://www.reddit.com/r/gloriouspcmasterrace/comments/1r01ny/glorious_masterrace_hear_me/cdi9ld6

                                                                    [–]ZeraskGuilda 38ポイント39ポイント  (26子コメント)

                                                                    PCMR? PcMasterRace? I didn't realize that they were really an issue to begin with.

                                                                    [–]Roller_ball 45ポイント46ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                                                    When they first started, it was paradoxically way more of a joke and taken way more seriously than it is now. There were a couple incidences when someone would have a argument about pc vs. console on a subreddit, it would get posted to pcmasterrace, and then a lot of the users brigaded them and would fully harass the user. They have cleaned up and toned down a lot since then.

                                                                    [–]Burnzy503 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                    Member of PCMR here, I agree with this statement. Before, I didn't want anything to do with PCMR because it was practically a hate group for anyone who didn't play on the PC. Now it's a much more clean group of people who just love gaming on the PC, and they've become something worth being a part of.

                                                                    [–]ZeraskGuilda 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                    Huh. TIL.

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                                                                        [–]akajimmy 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                        Here's the admin quote you're looking for.

                                                                        [–]aurisor 133ポイント134ポイント  (50子コメント)

                                                                        The literal and advertised sole purpose of that reddit is to demean & mock & brigade statements they don't agree with. The entire subreddit is literally just a list of links to comments with a list of grievances.

                                                                        Arguing that SRS isn't harassing because they don't field a substantial number of comments or downvotes is sort of like arguing the KKK isn't racist because they don't kill many people anymore.

                                                                        In both cases, it's very clear what they stand for, and being on "good behavior" doesn't make me any more willing to be associated with you anymore.

                                                                        And just for the record, there's an obvious disparity of degree between SRS and the KKK. It's an extreme analogy but an apt one so you can go pound sand if you don't like it.

                                                                        [–]Show-Me-Your-Moves 67ポイント68ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                                                        Why in god's name would anyone complain about brigading without talking about BestOf? It's orders of magnitude bigger than anything like SRS, with a demonstrated tendency to carpet-bomb every thread that gets linked.

                                                                        If your main complaint isn't BestOf, you're not concerned about brigading; you're just here with an axe to grind.

                                                                        [–]TOMMPTTTC 34ポイント35ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                        The literal and advertised sole purpose of that reddit is to demean & mock & brigade statements they don't agree with

                                                                        You can't say brigading is the advertised purpose when rule two is "ShitRedditSays is not a downvote brigade".

                                                                        [–]AsAChemicalEngineer 76ポイント77ポイント  (25子コメント)

                                                                        SRS glory days were long before admins had a policy on this behavior and basically was a test tube for them. If you want to make KKK comparisons that is your business, but the simple fact is that while the SRS of yesteryears would have been probably banned under current rules, the current SRS is just another sub I don't really like, but isn't really a problem.

                                                                        [–]PullDudePowerBastard 147ポイント148ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                                                        The SRS paranoia is really odd. Someone will say something incredibly racist and get downvoted, and suddenly everyone's complaining about the SRS brigade. I wonder if they ever consider that maybe regular people just don't like seeing racist shit everywhere, and it doesn't take an SRS brigade to downvote it?

                                                                        [–]IIIISuperDudeIIII 62ポイント63ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                                                        Oh, you don't like racist shit? You must be an SJW Tumblrina then! You should go somewhere else and hang out with your Trans helicopterkin! /s

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                                                                            [–]BigBassBone 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                            Arguing that SRS isn't harassing because they don't field a substantial number of comments or downvotes is sort of like arguing the KKK isn't racist because they don't kill many people anymore.

                                                                            Harassment is an action, racism is an idea. Talking about shit they find distasteful isn't harassment, especially since there is little evidence that they brigade or harass anyone anymore to any large degree. Sure, they can't control everyone in their sub, but they really don't encourage or endorse brigading and harassment.

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                                                                              [–]TheSystem_IsDown 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                              Every time someone says SRS is a shitty brigade, the next comment is "well they're not relevant anymore". /r/fatpeoplehate wasn't relevant, but they were brigading. It's the action, not the size.

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                                                                                [–]BDaught 192ポイント193ポイント  (38子コメント)

                                                                                Good luck with that...

                                                                                [–]aurisor 57ポイント58ポイント  (37子コメント)

                                                                                Bottom line the message that sends is that harassment is ok as long as you're feminist because the ends justify the means.

                                                                                [–]jadaris 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                What's there to explain? Admins and power-mods are members of SRS.

                                                                                [–]devotedpupa 32ポイント33ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                I thought they had already answered that if this rule was present 1 year or so back, SRS would have been smote too. Yet people keep bringing it up as a gotcha.

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                                                                                  [–]Tor_Coolguy 30ポイント31ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                                                  Define "safe platform".

                                                                                  [–]guy231 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                  Yeah, this just launders the ambiguity from one term to another.

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                                                                                    [–]_GeneParmesan_ 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    Any moderation action that isn't specifically for the purpose of spam should notify the user that it happened.

                                                                                    If you comment is deleted and it's not spam, you should be notified.

                                                                                    And fuck you, reddit and shadow bans - having shadow bans and not telling users about it, it's shit, you're shit (although that taste of autism predates you, I am going OT and referencing reddit itself here)

                                                                                    So the last months you've been working on new filters for upvotes, is this a grab test of that new filtering algorithm?

                                                                                    All votes are created equal, but some are created more equal than others?

                                                                                    [–]DickWhiskey 22ポイント23ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                    Systematic and/or continued actions to torment or demean someone in a way that would make a reasonable person (1) conclude that reddit is not a safe platform to express their ideas or participate in the conversation, or (2) fear for their safety or the safety of those around them. We allow organized campaigns to reach appropriate points of contact, but not individual employees who have nothing to do with the issues.

                                                                                    This is a hugely unworkable harassment standard.

                                                                                    EDIT: For those of you who may be supporting this definition, think of it like a lawyer would think of it. Think of it as someone who is being accused of a crime and wants to find a way out. What would the problems be? The biggest problem, right on the surface, is that this definition is predicated on a number of concepts that also need a definition.

                                                                                    When it's something that the majority of people wouldn't disagree about (say, for example, the word "cabinet" - most people would probably agree, to within a certain margin, what is and isn't a cabinet). When the term is something more vague, that's what causes problems. This definition includes multiple vague terms, and the consequence is that it probably makes it even more difficult to agree on what is and isn't harassment. For example, grab your three best friends and have a discussion on how to define "systematic and/or continued" (continued for how long? two comments? 100? is it a period of time? a number of complaints?)), "torment or demean" (torment or demean - can we all agree what tormenting is? can we agree on whether something is demeaning?). Define "safe platform" - safe in what way? Physically? Mentally? Emotionally? Socially? At what point does it become unsafe?). Safe place to "express their ideas" or "participate in the conversation" - what is the level of expression or participation that everyone is entitled to? If someone concludes that they'd rather not post a comment because someone will call them an idiot, is that harassment? "Fear for their safety" - the same standard for safety that was used previously? - or the "safety of those around them" - does "those around them" mean family? or friends? or anyone that you know? what about anyone you know online or on reddit?

                                                                                    This is one of the worst attempts at formulating a standard for guiding conduct that I have ever seen. Note that it does not even require a level of intent (so you could be harassing hundreds of people right now without knowing it!). You might as well say "harassment is whatever makes someone feel unsafe" - and that's basically what they did here. Who determines what these words mean? Well, the admins, of course. And the words can mean whatever the admins find convenient in the moment, then they can change for the next convenience.

                                                                                    What is needed here is a clear definition with factors that can be used by a person to objectively judge new situations. For example, in New York, first degree harassment is defined as:

                                                                                    S 240.25 Harassment in the first degree.

                                                                                    A person is guilty of harassment in the first degree when he or she intentionally and repeatedly harasses another person by following such person in or about a public place or places or by engaging in a course of conduct or by repeatedly committing acts which places such person in reasonable fear of physical injury.

                                                                                    Now compare these two definitions. First things first, New York's statute isn't perfect either. But the conduct is fairly clearly outlined. It requires INTENT ("intentionally and repeatedly"), it requires that the conduct take place multiple times (reddit's definition could be read to include a person being injured multiple times by one action), it DESCRIBES THE PROHIBITED CONDUCT (following around in public spaces or repeatedly placing them in fear of physical injury), and it describes the TYPE OF INJURY (physical). Pao's definition doesn't do any of those things.

                                                                                    [–]CoolRunner 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    I want to make the site as open as possible, bring as many views and ideas as possible

                                                                                    The problem is Mrs. Pao, I simply don't believe you. In being a logic driven person, I just can't find any legitimate reasons to either.

                                                                                    [–]Mises2Peaces 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    The first definition of harassment could include almost anything. People with mainstream political views could be harassing each other just by posting talking points from TV news. Not to mention everyone else.

                                                                                    [–]GrumpyFinn 24ポイント25ポイント  (25子コメント)

                                                                                    Just a quick question on harassment - I have a "fan" on here that shows up every few weeks, sometimes every few days. I have no idea how many accounts he has, but it's a seemingly large amount. You guys usually ban him quickly, but why is he able to still make new accounts after doxxing me, and quite regularly posting personal info about me? He's even began harassing me on Google. He's a regular in far-right/neo nazi subs. I just want to know why people like him are allowed to just keep evading bans and making new accounts. I find it hard to believe that you guys take harassmnet seriously because of this. I appreciate the help I've gotten thus far but i shouldn't have to keep running to the admins every week.

                                                                                    [–]UltronPrime 46ポイント47ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    How do you think they would solve this problem for you? I can change my IP address at any time, how could they keep him off the site?

                                                                                    If you aren't willing to change your username or go to real authorities about a stalker you can't expect reddit administration to solve it for you

                                                                                    [–]RapidDinosaur 34ポイント35ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                    If this person is making a serious impact on your life, file a police report. There are too many ways people can evade a Reddit ban.

                                                                                    [–]Tony_Chu 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                    It's not fair and it's not your fault, but you need to change your username in this situation.

                                                                                    No you shouldn't have to, because you shouldn't be harassed in the first place. But that isn't a good reason not to.

                                                                                    You shouldn't have to raise your arm up to prevent yourself from getting stabbed either, but if you don't do it for that reason then you are a fool, right?

                                                                                    Nobody cares about your comment history. Nobody will miss GrumpyFinn. Change your username.

                                                                                    [–]GrumpyFinn 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    You're probably right.

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                                                                                      [–]boobookittyfuck69696 9ポイント10ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                                      What about sponsored content? SECRET sponsored content and shill posts?

                                                                                      [–]Put_a_Hat_ontheFetus 24ポイント25ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                                      Thank you for the response.

                                                                                      Please carefully consider downvoting/upvoting, guys.

                                                                                      [–]yoda133113 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                      Honestly, all of her responses here should be upvoted. Even if she's lying through her teeth and we know it, they contribute to the discussion as the entire goal of this post is to ask her questions and get her/Reddit's side of the issue.

                                                                                      Now, when she's saying something unreasonable, we should respond accordingly.

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                                                                                        [–]El_Zombie 23ポイント24ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                                                        In response to number 1:

                                                                                        You've described SRS. Are you going to do something about it?

                                                                                        [–]GorbiJones 31ポイント32ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                        The admins have repeatedly said that SRS is no worse than the other meta-subs (like /r/bestof) in regards to brigading. They used to be worse, but that was before the site-wide rules against brigading were added.

                                                                                        [–]Rsdd12 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                        How has she described SRS? Honest question, because they've been damn near inactive for over a year and haven't actively harassed anyone in that time.

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