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[–]BellyFullOfSwans 4570ポイント4571ポイント x5 (1131子コメント)

Krispykrackers is the Admin who shadowbanned my first account for posting a business' phone number and called it "doxxing".

I had a 3 year old account with over 30K karma, over 10 Redditgifts gift exchanges, months of gold given and received (with years still on the books I never got back), a large friends list, etc...banned because I posted the number of a business. I didnt start a witch hunt or say anything bad about the business....I wasnt promoting the business....still, it was seen as doxxing and without anybody else hearing my case, I was shadowbanned (and not notified about it).

When I did figure out what had happened and why I was suddenly talking to myself, I had to look up ways of getting a hold of Reddit. They dont exactly have a customer service hotline (you know, like real businesses with real customers do).

That was a pain, but was able to finally reach somebody. It was Krispykrackers. Her one word reply? "Why do you think it is OK to post personal information?"

And that was it....I never heard another word, I never got an answer back from Reddit Gold about my paid-for months of gold I still had...and /u/gekokujo was lost to me over a non-issue.

There was no accountability, no transparency, and no recourse for grievance. As a Reddit Gold user at the time, I was a PAYING CUSTOMER...and as you could have seen from my comment history then (or now), I am not a troll.

Leaving Krispykrackers in charge of fixing your out-of-control staff and unfair practices is worse than letting the fox run the henhouse. Foxes arent evil, they just eat chickens. On the other hand, humans like Krispykrackers have their own sense of social justice and a license to be judge/jury/executioner with no witnesses and only the shadowbanned-mute voices of her opposition to speak up.

There is no solution as long as Krispykrackers is playing a major part. She is as big of a part of the problem as Pao herself and I can prove that (with my own experience and that of others...some involving chat logs from past controversies).

Fix the problem....dont promote the problem to a place where she will further abuse her power and your site.

EDIT - Thanks for the comments, guys. I did get a response from KrispyKrackers that is hidden in the comments below. As thanks for her response and in the spirit of fairness, it definitely deserves to be seen. I apologize for any bad formatting, but I dont think Ive linked a comment before. Also...in the comment above it says that I had "years" remaining on my Gold. Nobody has called me on that yet, but it was just a simple typo and should read "months" instead. Going to leave it up as to not appear tricksy.

KrispyKracker's response

[–]Ryanisreallame 953ポイント954ポイント  (27子コメント)

/u/Krispykrackers should comment on this and personally give an explanation. They're already commenting in this thread as it is.

[–]moreteam 408ポイント409ポイント  (18子コメント)

She did, but the votes in this thread make it hard to see: https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3cbo4m/we_apologize/csu89m8

(Sorry for hijacking your comment but it's the highest voted right now)

[–]Guano_Loco 50ポイント51ポイント  (12子コメント)

It's a weird reply. Credit her for her honesty, and for... Kind of shitting on her bosses for up heaving her whole life... But it's just weird to read that in light of everything going on.

You can admit to and apologize for a mistake, but to basically say, "I'm the kind of person who can't hold it together when things get shitty!" Is weird.

Those two things coming after being announced as the new Victoria is a curious choice.

[–]Feduppanda 11ポイント12ポイント  (7子コメント)

I'm trying to figure out why she would be so specific. At least chalk it up to family issues. Or, like I try and do, take responsibility for screwing up and apologize and give assurance it won't happen again..

[–]Guano_Loco 15ポイント16ポイント  (6子コメント)

Her whole post is very hand-wringy, and blame-shifty. Seems like a good fit. Shame for us.

[–]Feduppanda 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

As is every other admin's response in the thread, ugh what can you do...

Edit: I'm dumb.

[–]Carighan 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well, to be fair, admins are people. I was the raidleader for an 8y old raiding guild in WoW (I was it for all those 8 years, and yes I know this is way smaller scale), and even in that context it was already difficult to stay professional enough for the job.
And that's with a bunch of friends. Not millions of strangers on the internet.

[–]Guano_Loco 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I am not at all saying it's not a hard job, and I'm not at all saying I wouldn't be running around with my hair on fire too, but I sure wouldn't throw my drama out to the world that way. Especially in light of all the stuff going on around here.

[–]Carighan 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah that is true. I enjoy the openness with which she replied, because it takes quite a lot to readily type out that you let personal drama creep in and did stuff wrong.

That being said, ofc, an admin especially needs a way to push a red button for themselves. If they feel they're getting agitated about a topic, they need a way to step away from the computer for X hours without work faltering or their boss exploding. Angry admins are helping no one, not us and not the company.

It's just that this is a big issue in many companies who don't accept this. "Why is this taking longer? Why did you two swap your jobs at lunch?". When in reality that is what the company needs to encourage, if you find yourself personally invested (too much), then you and someone else need to swap for the rest of the day even if some time is lost. Get the head out of the mess.

[–]agentdrummer 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for linking. There is so much insanity in this thread that I cannot seem to find the sane and clear answers im looking for.

[–]BeatMastaD 63ポイント64ポイント  (0子コメント)

Too bad with the impossible mod tools reddit provides she wont be able to find a conversation that long ago.

[–]boobookittyfuck69696 703ポイント704ポイント  (8子コメント)

no accountability, no transparency, and no recourse for grievance.

[–]Large_banana_hammock 36ポイント37ポイント  (1子コメント)

Could you upload the described chat logs if you get the chance? Not that I don't believe you, I just would be interested in seeing exactly what people said.

Edit: Never mind, that comment from /u/krispykrackers works too.

[–]shortAAPL 102ポイント103ポイント  (18子コメント)

I was shadowbanned (and not notified about it).

That's the whole point of a shadowban. Still ridiculous. Your experience is completely unprofessional. Perhaps admins should not be in charge of banning or shadowbanning at all? only subs and mods maybe.

[–]gsfgf 215ポイント216ポイント  (15子コメント)

That's the whole point of a shadowban

Which was originally to stop spambots. There's really no need to shadowban users for other violations. Regular banning would accomplish that.

[–]shortAAPL 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

totally agree. one way or another, his/her experience is pathetic on reddit's part if it's all true (which im sure it is)

[–]Steakles 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

Exactly... a normal person is going to realize pretty quickly (we're not idiots), and simply make a new account with a chip on their shoulder. And why not tell the regular user why? If they were acting inappropriately, you'd think telling them before they make a new account might prevent said behaviour in the future. Otherwise, even if they did break the rules, they may have no idea what they did wrong, in which case they are just angry and confused.

What does it accomplish? 2 weeks without posts from that user?

[–]postalmaner 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some one posted a tifu (IIRC) where they'd not realised for months... And months... And months.

[–]JWilliamsBlack 23ポイント24ポイント  (3子コメント)

Beyond being needless, Shadowbanning regular users as opposed to spambots (and it's very easy to tell the difference) is a depraved, sadistically cruel, and ethically wrong act in every single case, bar none. It's a recourse for cowards in power who want someone gone but lack the backbone to deign to explain why, or risk opening themselves up to argument on the subject. It has no place in any kind of community founded on free expression and mutual respect.

Why treat another human being as such, when you can condemn them to an existential hell of not even knowing for certain if they've been banned, much less why. It's happened to a friend of mine over bogus, unproven charges they were only able to drag out of an administrator in retrospect; I remember reading the story of someone who was Shadowbanned for years before they even realized what had happened. It'll probably happen to me eventually for some vaguely defined thought crimes, but I won't make the mistake of dignifying it with a response, be it belligerence or begging.

When my time comes, I'll finally join the droves who are abandoning this cesspit of censorship and find a community who has enough respect for its own content creators to let the votes do their jobs, establishes a disciplinary policy, and sticks to it. One that would never even consider imbuing its leaders with this sick ability, which they have never failed to abuse with the same gleeful malice as a child with a shiny new toy.

As /u/BellyFullOfSwans said, fix the problem. Reign in the administration. Show some humility and decency. We do not need you, but if you have a prayer of turning a profit and saving this sinking ship, you need us.

[–]ghostofmybrain 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Reddit needs to stop shadowbanning at all. I got shadowbanned recently for upvoting a thread that my husband had previously upvoted. (Apparently upvoting content from the same network - yes, including public networks [I asked] - now gets you shadowbanned). I happened to notice it very soon because I attempted to link a friend to a post I made, but my husband didn't notice for weeks. It's just a bullshit way to manage users.

[–]rotzooi 2276ポイント2277ポイント x2 (99子コメント)

As soon as I saw this "apology" (lol - we're soooorrrryyy) with the names of Ellen, Krispy, and Deimorz, all of whom I have labeled in RES with an "unfavorable" fuchsia color, I knew this was the Triumvirate of Shitting on Users doing damage control.
Nothing more. They really don't give a fuck, apparently. Not about the users and apparently not even about running a perfectly decent site into the ground.

[–]Monkstar1 1602ポイント1603ポイント  (22子コメント)

Her one word reply? "Why do you think it is OK to post personal information?"

It wouldn't be Reddit unless somebody pointed out this is more than a one word reply.

[–]Waldhorn 249ポイント250ポイント  (1子コメント)

she left out the spaces to save reddit bandwidth

[–]swarlay 94ポイント95ポイント  (4子コメント)

The reply was in German, they have a word for that.

[–]CryEagle 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can confirm, it's "Fickschnitzel"

[–]swarlay 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's a rather loose translation.

[–]ManWhoKilledHitler 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or in latin. It was actually all in capitals.

[–]smithjo1 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

ha, that's the first thing I thought of too...

[–]Baconmusubi 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pretty sure they meant "one reply" because this was the next sentence:

And that was it....I never heard another word

[–]DingoFrisky 22ポイント23ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yeah, that's like......80 words? IDK

[–]threepointrest 36ポイント37ポイント  (3子コメント)

Math class must have been rough

[–]strumpster 46ポイント47ポイント  (2子コメント)

Oh you don't know the sixth of it

[–]wowww_ 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Actually it's a seventh.

Check your half privilege.

[–]link5057 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, I assume he meant sentence

[–]portugalthephilosoph 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

it also wouldn't be reddit unless someone pointed out that it's 'reddit', not 'Reddit'.

[–]32DDbitches 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks Monk, glad it didn't have to be me. :-)

[–]TheQuon 654ポイント655ポイント  (22子コメント)

This "apology" came right after she realized that 150k signatures on a petition to remove her won't look good at her next board meeting. lol

[–]whiskeytango55 100ポイント101ポイント  (1子コメント)

190k. soon to be 200k

[–]BobbyMcPrescott 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ding Ding Ding! Just hit it this very moment. At the rate it seems to move it'll be 300k by tomorrow.

[–]mzackler 25ポイント26ポイント  (6子コメント)

You do know who the board is, right?

[–]trippy_grape 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, not Victoria anymore...

[–]mzackler 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a two person board.

[–]Was_going_2_say_that 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

is it a risk board?

[–]mzackler 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's just Alexis and the guy from Y Combinator.

[–]enjoysodomy 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Really only the guy from Y Combinator matters.

[–]siftingflour 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. She actually had to go to reddit.com and type up a post once she realized she might lose her status.

[–]Deadeye2956 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I wasn't going to sign it but now I really am thinking about it. It's obvious that this response is only the result of that petition.

[–]OTL_OTL_OTL 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

Really tempted to sign that petition if the answers in this thread are not satisfying

[–]elverloho 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Keep signing. At 250k we might get an actual reply.

[–]maxim187 21ポイント22ポイント  (1子コメント)

[–]patriot_Hannibal 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

영광스러운 우리의 영원한 지도자 엘렌 파오 동무 만세!

This message is to bring Dear Leader's light upon the masses. The Exalted Chairwoman Pao is waging an honorable war against the sickening western notions of "free speech." The supporters of Illustrious Ellen Pao gather in /r/PaoYongYang. A place free of triggers, and truly a safe space for all.

[–]The_0bserver 14ポイント15ポイント  (3子コメント)

Wait. Fuck. I labelled them with Crappy Fuschia colour on RES tooo. o_O

[–]BalooBot 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

You're actually the same person. It's like a really boring version of fight club.

[–]RenaKunisaki 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's how I see all these corporate "apologies". Same formula every time:

  • Company does shitty things for a long time, people complain but aren't bothered enough to really make a stink about it
  • They do something even shittier
  • People finally complain and make a fuss
  • No response
  • News media comments on it
  • Suddenly the CEO themselves is posting a public announcement among the lines of "we're sorry for doing that thing (but we're not going to stop doing it), please stop scaring off our advertisers", in a letter that's several paragraphs long but really says nothing, using the types of meaningless or misleading phrases you'd expect to find in a political ad
  • Nothing actually changes, except the one thing that finally broke the dam is undone (and maybe quietly redone later) so that the majority will stop complaining and assume all's right in the world again

Anyone remember the Horror incident with Twitch? Twitch admins had been shitty for a while, finally a popular streamer complained publicly and was promptly banned for it; people reacted by protesting on their own channels and also getting banned; nothing was actually resolved until the CEO realized what a PR disaster this was, so they unbanned a couple of the more popular streamers (which already stopped most of the complaints), and finally did give some ultra vague notice about Horror being moved to some other position (so not even actually removed like people wanted, just given a different job). Meanwhile the admins who actually were causing most of the trouble weren't touched at all, because people with more than 3 viewers didn't complain loudly enough about them, when they were (and still do!) causing more problems than Horror actually did.

Remember the Sony rootkit incident? Someone discovers and posts on their (fairly popular) blog that Sony music CDs install a "DRM manager" which is essentially a trojan (and a massive security hole) on any PC you play them in; people complain, but nothing actually gets done until it makes the news; Sony finally responds - once court-ordered to - by providing a "removal tool"; the tool actually signs you up for spam, but not enough people complain loudly enough about that, so nothing gets done and Sony gets to turn their "punishment" into even more profit at users' expense.

Always the same scenario. Nothing will get done until people (popular enough that a large crowd notices) complain enough for it to make the news, and then all that will likely happen is that one straw-that-broke-the-camel's-back will be taken back off the camel, the CEO will post a completely meaningless "apology", just enough to give people the feeling that they've "won" and can stop complaining, while the actual underlying issue is never addressed.

[–]Aschego 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

And her reply to one of the most hard hitting questions in the thread has no relevance to the question whatsoever...

[–]ruckFIAA 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Careful, you'll get shadowbanned speaking out like that.

[–]DeathStarAway 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

our team is ready to respond comments

Where are their comments? This is just demagogy

[–]acecookie 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

I'm uncultured swine, what exactly is RES? I assume something like xkit is to Tumblr, a Reddit extension/improvement suite of sorts?

[–]sbowesuk 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

all of whom I have labeled in RES with an "unfavorable" fuchsia color

You monster!

[–]nonhiphipster 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

WER'E SOOO SORRY, YOU GUYS!!!

[–]tRfalcore 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a company, of course it is. Why do you feel so betrayed? It's just a web site

[–]jhra 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

We're sooooooooorrrrrrryyyyyy aside, this has been a veritable upvote party all around. I came here looking for Admin answers, ended up giving out a buffet of Orangered while still looking for answers that don't feel like PR fed bullshit. On the plus side though, voat.co has some wide open usernames right now... thirty seconds later and I'm Blenderhead over there.

[–]AnarkeIncarnate 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Herr Heinrich Himmler has been appointed Unterfuhrer of Compassion. We in the Reich believe in total transparency. Therefor, if you have any complaints, simply shoven und thumben upen your assen.

[–]Sum_Ting_Wong_ 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

[–]kernozlov 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly what I had in my head when I scrolled upon this thread.

rubs nipples.

"We're sorry."

[–]magicwhistle 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

/u/Deimorz has always been active in the suggestions sub, answers questions, and contributes to discussions of proposed features. Genuinely kinda surprised to hear you say this.

[–]vengeance610 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Fuschia? I use that for plain ol' sjws. Admins get the maroon tag so I can differentiate them from sjw users.

[–]dot_jpegasus 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

What about a sjw admin?

[–]vengeance610 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maroon w/ "sjw admin" in the tag.

[–]kickme444 1ポイント2ポイント  (12子コメント)

I am no longer at reddit and am not going to opine on this apology or the events of coming weeks or months but I wanted to pop in and say that having worked closely with /u/KrispyKrackers over the last 4 years, she cares THE MOST about the community.

The life of a community manager at reddit is not easy and everyone makes mistakes but I can vouch for her intentions.

[–]JBHUTT09 30ポイント31ポイント  (5子コメント)

everyone makes mistakes

But the problem is , if no one else knows of your mistake, what's your incentive to fix it? If the one making the mistake is judge, jury, and executioner, what recourse does someone who has been wronged have?

[–]a4000 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Making mistakes is one thing, not correcting them is another. What recourse does the average user have when these mistakes happen and are not addressed?

[–]sepros 177ポイント178ポイント  (3子コメント)

Her one word reply? "Why do you think it is OK to post personal information?"

Dude that's like 11 words

[–]NotMyCircus 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would assume he meant "one sentence."

[–]isthatalrightbro 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Answering a question with a question isn't a bloody answer.

[–]supergecko 631ポイント632ポイント  (20子コメント)

But she's SORRY.

[–]ApolloThneed 490ポイント491ポイント  (6子コメント)

"We screwed up. And we're here to ignore your questions to prove that we're better at screwing up than all of our competitors combined. Now go buy some gold, peasant"

[–]G19Gen3 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here at the BP oil company, we're sorry.

What should we do? Should we say we aren't a role model? What should we do?

[–]UndeniablyRexer 41ポイント42ポイント  (1子コメント)

She never even used the word sorry. Here's what she has said:
-We apologize
-We have apologized
I don't think any of it is sincere.

[–]bantrain7 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

In her defence, she used the word "I" at the end when describing how things were going to get better.

[–]Narian 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

It wasn't even a Canadian "Sorry".

Phony as fuck. Holden Caufield would have been horse by the time he got through that post.

[–]hyperforce 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

But she's SORRY.

It's one thing to "be sorry" (just words) vs acting sorry.

This whole thread is filled with sorry employees.

[–]guithrough123 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

I love how she's sorry after what...180k signatures calling for her resignation as CEO...lol

[–]americanpagesus 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Southpark comes to mind...

[–]Frackingoilguy 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

[–]DuhTrutho 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Literally watched the coon trilogy on South Park yesterday. Felt like I was in the twilight zone with this post as it was basically: "We're sorrrryyy." We'll totally make sure things get better even though we won't do anything about subs that brigade like /r/ShitRedditSays.

[–]Man_of_Many_Voices 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree. I think Shadowbanning is the absolute worst feature Reddit has. At least 4chan of all places has the balls to TELL YOU that you're banned, and WHY. It even has a simple appeal feature.

[–]GeeBee72 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

<< JUDGE DREDDIT!>> Opening Scene:

Judge Dreddit (KrispyKrackers): In case you people have forgotten, this block operates under the same rules as the rest of the city. /u/Gekokujo is not the law...

I am the law!!

/u/Gekokujo is a common criminal; guilty of Doxxing, guilty of the distribution of personal information, and as of now under sentence of Shadowbanning.

Any who obstruct me in carrying out my duty will be treated as an accessory to their crimes... you have been warned. And as for you /u/Gekokujo...

judgement time.

BellyFullOfSwans: But I didn't....

JUDGE DREDDIT: Negotiation's over. Sentence is death

[–]seaweed124 100ポイント101ポイント  (3子コメント)

sadly you know ellen pao wont respond to this and doesnt give a shit about real concerns - i had an account with 86k posting karma. I provided content for over 2 years and then banned for posting things due to change in reddit rules.

[–]SJWRapedInShreveport 20ポイント21ポイント  (2子コメント)

What did you post that got you banned?

[–]MimeGod 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's not falling for that one again.

[–]xanatos451 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

Guess he got banned for posting what got him banned.

[–]SamWhite 61ポイント62ポイント  (16子コメント)

What business and what context? Because if this was something like /r/conspiracy posting details of that daycare then I've got no sympathy. The devil's in the details and all that.

[–]Scarim 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

What business and what context? Because if this was something like /r/conspiracy[1] posting details of that daycare then I've got no sympathy. The devil's in the details and all that.

A fair point, but whether or not the ban was warranted, a Shadow Ban was still a wrong decision. If OP was truly harassing somebody,then surely his account should have been banned. The shadow ban feature was created exclusively to deal with spammers.

If you are interested /u/kn0thing recently explained its origins "Back when we made it, we had only annoying marketers to deal with and it was easier to 'neuter' them (that's what we called it) and let them think they could keep spamming us so that we could focus on more important things like building the site."

Of cause that doesn't mean /u/krispykrackers had sinister intention, it may have been a simple mistake.

That said, abuse of the shadow ban feature has is not unheard of, there were some cases last year where Admins handed out shadow bans despite being well aware that user was not a spambot.

[–]SamWhite 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

a Shadow Ban was still a wrong decision....The shadow ban feature was created exclusively to deal with spammers.

There is no ban feature, it's shadowbans across the board.

[–]Scarim 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

There is no ban feature, it's shadowbans across the board.

Sorry, if i was unclear. By ban, i meant the complete closing of an account.

[–]SamWhite 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

As far as I know, they don't do that. They just shadowban, or in extreme cases, IP ban.

[–]magicdevil99 24ポイント25ポイント  (4子コメント)

Context is important and while I don't know this user or the history it seems like an over reaction as they described it. Deleting the post they made and informing them of why would have likely solved the problem. Continued breaking of said rule could warrant a ban but if this was a one off post it would seems unfair.

[–]SamWhite 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

it seems like an over reaction as they described it.

They gave very few details, and something about it to me just screamed the time that /r/conspiracy decided that a daycare was suspicious. They started harassing the place, going there in person, taking pictures through the windows, I shit you not. Turns out it was a daycare for poor kids, just like it said. Quite a few of them copped shadowbans over that. So without more detail from this guy, I'm not taking it on faith.

[–]RunDNA 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're right to be suspicious. His comment was in this /r/JusticePorn thread:

Car Dealership Messes With Pizza Delivery Guy, Feels Internet’s Wrath

He posted this comment there (I've censored the name of the company and the phone number):

COMPANY NAME:(XXX) XXX-XXX would put a foot in your ass for sending them glitter.

The comment references one of the workers at the car dealership who threatened the pizza guy with: "Out the door before I put my foot in your ass" and a previous commenter who had suggested sending the dealership a glitter bomb.

In another comment in this thread he says:

The letter of the law shadowbans me without seeing anything but the phone number. A bit of context shows that, while I very well could have been in the wrong for my basic actions alone, they were not the actions of a troll/doxxer and I wasnt trying to incite anybody to do anything but keep it verbal.

A company in the wrong is not above being yelled at by the general public. You should see what happens to a burger flipper when he puts onions on the wrong burger or forgets to put straws in the bag. Im not that way, and I dont think it should be Plan A, but an angry letter or phone call is only less effective than "voting with your dollar" when it comes to getting effective change with a business.

This makes it clear that he meant for people to call and harass the car dealership. Maybe he didn't know it was against the rules, but it definitely was.

Posting a business phone number in a /r/JusticePorn post is an obvious case of harassment and deserved a shadowban.

[–]magicdevil99 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh yeah I understand that, I was just saying from their side of the story it seems unfair. But every story is different depending on who is telling it.

[–]loogawa 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

Exactly. Its the context. If the business is a local shop that someone said they hated or something, even if you don't tell people to witchhunt, it would still likely start one.

Unless someone was purely trying to get the phone number of something for some reason I can't think of many legitimate reasons to post a phone number here. I'm sure that more often than not it's a negative thing.

At the same time I bet they have billions of messages to sort through.

[–]quenishi 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Though if the user's intention was fairly clearly not to start a witch-hunt, the better path would be to delete/edit the post, and PM the user not to post phone numbers. If there's repeat incident(s), then it's time to ban. Most people aren't out to be malicious, but don't always know the consequences of their actions.

Have seen it before where posts have been edited because the details were potentially too close to giving away irl info.

[–]loogawa 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'd tend to be inclined to believe the user had a false sense of persecution and was actually being a total asshole

[–]LightningRodofH8 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

As a user, I can only vote with my wallet. I've cancelled my recurring Gold subscription. Once I've gone through my gold credits, I won't be purchasing any more.

[–]LeonieNowny 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Very nice post. Sorry for your account.

[–]constantvariables 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

This woman is playing people and they're just eating it the hell up.

[–]Superdundop 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

This needs to be addressed

[–]bentbent4 49ポイント50ポイント  (16子コメント)

You aren't the customer you're the product

[–]garscow 36ポイント37ポイント  (6子コメント)

Uh /u/BellFullOfSwans clearly stated they bought, gave and consumed gold. This makes them a customer. I'm the product. Freeloading user who occasionally comments on stuff.

[–]HappyHippoCarnivore 25ポイント26ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't click on ads - but I do buy gold. I'm a customer.

[–]Luxray 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

He bought gold. He paid money to the site. He was a customer.

[–]IWugYouWugHeSheMeWug 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, the saying goes "if you're getting something for free, you're not the customer, you're the product."

OP specifically says that they paid for reddit gold and are thus a paying customer that is supporting the site...

[–]vengeance610 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do enough damage to the site and the product will leave. That's the nature of social media, the product isn't locked down.

[–]tequila13 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's Google. Reddit has a different business model.

[–]redds56101 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Edgy comment brah, care to explain how it argues against his overall message?

[–]enderandrew42 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The correct response should have been deleting your comment if they had a problem with it, and then telling you why. That is how you foster a good community.

My first account was shadowbanned. No one told me why. I checked and I wasn't reported anywhere for breaking any rules.

I think it was because I had a site of my own where I produced OC. Once a day I'd link to one of the articles on my site in different subs based on the interest (like movies, music or gaming). I can only assume someone eventually took that as spamming, but I didn't think linking to OC was inherently against the rules. The largest source of traffic discovering my site was coming in through reddit links.

Had an admin told me what they took offense at, I could have changed my behavior. Instead, I abandoned the site and won't bother ever trying to post OC again.

[–]Dogredisblue 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shadowbanning is dumb, my account was shadowbanned for creating a FPH subreddit back when Reddit was being retarded about a month ago. Ellen Mao is ruining Reddit

[–]boobookittyfuck69696 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

They dont exactly have a customer service hotline (you know, like real businesses with real customers do).

LOL customer service fail

[–]Kerri_Struggles 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

There is no solution as long as Krispykrackers is playing a major part.

Doesn't this seem like a rather extreme condition to make based off of one bad experience?

[–]htliferaspoc 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sure, if that was the only shady thing krispykrackers has done. But it isn't, not by a long shot.

[–]GYP-rotmg 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

it does, and as usual, many took a bite. Even when someone they apparently liked before tried to explain otherwise, no one is really listening

https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3cbo4m/we_apologize/csu5e8k

[–]Waldhorn 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sounds like she is a perfect soldier for Emperor Pao's glorious army.

[–]Fortehlulz33 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

...was the account you posted your old one? Because it's up again.

[–]Zombi3Kush 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm sorry that you had to go through that. Just hearing about your experience is making me mad.

[–]BellyFullOfSwans 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I thank you for your kind words and would like to point out that I just got my old account reinstated and I have gold for the first time in 5 months. I got an apology that I have needed (Im not proud of it, but I did) and support from a group of people who usually downvote me and ridicule my arguments.

This might be my best day ever on Reddit. I know that doesnt change the facts on the ground for anybody else, but I hope it helps to bring a little faith in humanity/the world back to your day, my friend.

[–]Steakles 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

no accountability, no transparency, and no recourse for grievance.

This exactly. I too was shadowbanned, and didn't notice for weeks. Thankfully a kind mod who knew me on a sub I frequented finally let me know. No idea why, didn't break any rules, didn't say anything questionable, rarely even posted on popular subs. I think I may have been caught in the spam filter somehow. I'm not actually mad about the banning, it was probably/must have been accidental--the thing that pissed be off was that there was no way to find out why or get my account restored. I was just a regular user, posting normally. And I would have loved to have had my banning reviewed.

But nope, out of nowhere, account banned, fuck you very much. And that's how I learned to not trust Reddit and not care about the community/any one account. And at the end of the day, that is the feeling that you are breeding into your userbase--that they can't trust Reddit to be accountable, transparent, or to have the same rules tomorrow.

[–]BellyFullOfSwans 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This exactly. I too was shadowbanned, and didn't notice for weeks.

I visit New and Rising a lot, I spend at least half of my time in small subreddits, and people dont like me much.....so it isnt too strange for me to see a bunch of comments sitting at 1 in my history. That said, it got worse and worse and I knew something was wrong or broken. I had to google what was wrong to even know what a shadowban was. Id never been warned or suspended or anything...and I had no idea what was going on during the shadowban (and, of course, nobody could hear me).

[–]XirallicBolts 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I had a similar account banned because the Downvote is next to the Back button on my phone. Even though I un-downvoted, the damage was done and I was shadowbanned. Admins refused to talk to me.

[–]BellyFullOfSwans 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I guarantee I have posted a million upvotes/downvotes in "protected" linked-to posts before. I never knew that you were "still in" that mode until you clicked out of it, so I guarantee I violated that enough to get a lifetime ban.

I didnt know that "best of" kinds of threads were "participation only", and figured that they deserved upvotes like anybody else! Why else put them on Best Of? My intentions are pure, but Im not a smart man, Jenny.

[–]cameroncac 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Your account isn't shadow banned anymore. Go check the user page. You got it back.

[–]BellyFullOfSwans 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

I just checked into it for the first time about an hour ago. It felt like Picard getting his seat on The Enterprise back after that whole Borg fiasco.

[–]cameroncac 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Um. I don't know what that means.

[–]BellyFullOfSwans 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Congratulations on having an active love/social life!

[–]cameroncac 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

But I don't.

[–]BellyFullOfSwans 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

As soon as I realized that I wasnt going to be an attractive and popular human, I realized that the occasional Star Trek (the next generation) reference wouldnt hurt my chances any further....

[–]mootsfox 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Chicken is delicious.

[–]BellyFullOfSwans 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ma, get my scatter-gun. That sumbitch is back again.

[–]One_more_username 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Congrats, you have your old account back. You know, I'm starting to think Ellen Pao may not be absolutely, completely evil.. Maybe we can try engaging her for a while, and telling her what we want, instead of blindly rallying to get her fired? What's to say the new CEO/Admins will be different?

[–]Fredthefree 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is no review process. In most MMO videogames bans are reviewed by a team and you can write a letter explaining why you think the ban was wrong and creates an open discussion. I was banned on WOW for something and the person reviewing my account started very open discussion about why I was wrong and gave me warning and nothing else happened. People are being banned without a way to argue against it and it leaves bans VERY permanent and users that banned very upset.

[–]101011 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

You should edit this comment so that people can see the response that she's made, because it's hidden beyond 'load more comments' at the moment.

At the time that I'm writing this, you've been gilded 4 times, have 4k+ upvotes, and krispykrackers has responded to you and unbanned your account after responding with an extremely reasonable explanation.

[–]bhawke01 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I hope you don't get banned for this...

[–]BendoverandIllshowya 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

My experience was different. I had a rough breakup and took it out on some people on reddit, and got a deserved Shadow Ban. I waited 6 months and /u/Krispykrackers responded to my apology and request within 20 minutes.

She did not treat me nastily, but with empathy. I am thankful.

re: Shadow Ban Removal Request from krispykrackers[A] via /r/reddit.com/ sent 3 months ago Thank you for the message. I'm willing to give you another shot, I understand times get tough and people act out. Please don't let poor judgement make you do things like that again, and welcome back to the community.

[–]BellyFullOfSwans 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

She did not treat me nastily, but with empathy. I am thankful.

Empathy is not only the most precious commodity in the world, it is also the closest singularity to the "meaning of life". I dont have time to explain the whole thing, but if you trust me on that for the rest of your life, I think I'd be steering you as straight as any other wise fella in sandles or a robe (Socrates, Jesus, The Dude).

I am sorry for your rough break-up and ensuing bitterness. I found Reddit while I was homeless and living in somebody else's attic. (how I got wired internet up there was an AMA all unto itself). The homelessness was caused by a divorce...a divorce that made me Bitterness Incarnate....a state that made me realize I needed to regain my empathy in humanity....a realization that brought me to a Secret Santa exchange on Reddit. My only present that year came from a Redditor.

I still use Reddit to talk about Modest Mouse or Game of Thrones....things I dont have an outlet for as a single dad in a small town. I also prefer to keep my vitriolic flag/rainbow types of debate on Reddit and not Facebook so that I can be honest without offending my mother and great aunt Sally. I want to be able to have intelligent debate and hone my opinion by putting it up against that of others and seeing which rings of reason/logic/truth.....or I want to imply that somebody was conceived with weak semen because they dont like the same football team that I follow.

It is all fun and games to me, but I guarantee you could take even some of my most "fun" and "light hearted" comments out of context...put them on blast on the front page...and they would easily offend half of the population of Reddit.

I have unpopular opinions and I love being able to voice them and argue them. I take full responsibility for them in my meat life and my virtual one.

Thanks for your take on the subject and your background on Krispy. We will be judged by our actions, but people rarely see enough of our actions to judge adequately. We are who we are when nobody is watching...but you rarely get glory for the things that nobody sees.

[–]Griffin-dork 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

yeah, thats pretty fucked. This place is going into the ground hard and fast. Welp, see ya reddit. Nice knowing ya.

[–]krispykrackers[A] -371ポイント-370ポイント  (611子コメント)

t looks like I banned you in January (?) for posting a number to a car shop in order to get people to call them and express their dissatisfaction with their treatment of a pizza guy and that they wouldn’t be getting their business.

Yes, it was a public company's number, but I was worried that your comment was going to cause a bunch of people from the internet to go harass the company. Even if you think it's justified, I was not okay with allowing that to happen. My actual words to you were "Why do you think it's okay to encourage people to harass anyone based on something you saw about them on the internet?" I suppose that came off very snarky and unprofessional. For that, I apologize.

I don't know if it was the right decision, but I thought it was the best course of action at the time. I see we spoke briefly, and I never got back to you after you messaged back two more times. Nobody should be ignored like that, and we are generally very liberal about giving second, even third chances after an initial ban if you come to us to talk about it. We believe that people are corruptible, but we also believe that they are mostly rehabilitatable and want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

That said, the situation you’re in now is entirely my fault. This was around the time I was in the process of moving (or had just moved) across the country to keep this job due to the forced relocation (without my husband, might I add), and I was still the only community manager keeping tabs on modmail and other things during the US daytime. I was very busy and emotional from being torn from my family. I apologize it happened like that and I get that this just another excuse, but that’s right where my head was at during that time.

I can transfer whatever gold you had from that account to this account, or perhaps even reinstate the old account if you want it back and promise to continue to abide by the rules.

[–]OneRedSent 1063ポイント1064ポイント  (60子コメント)

And it only took 5 months and huge response on a public forum to make it right!

[–]TheAngryGoat 766ポイント767ポイント  (43子コメント)

That's /u/krispykrackers for you - doing the right thing only when put under the microscope of public scrutiny in an announcement about being caring and transparent, making the normal negative options impossible.

Come on everyone, let's have a large round of applause for our new Moderator Advocate! Clearly the right kind of person for such a people-centric role.

[–]rdosage 444ポイント445ポイント  (41子コメント)

keep this job due to the forced relocation (without my husband, might I add)

and

torn from my family.

Christ on a cracker - you can almost see the venom dripping off of that post.

Yeah, she seems like she'll do a great job promoting reddit.

[–]TheAngryGoat 272ポイント273ポイント  (7子コメント)

I wish I had a job where I could get away with treating people like shit without consequence just because I felt a little emotional.

Instead we have bullshit like "business ethics", "customer-centric care", and even "if you dare treat anyone like that again, we'll fire you on the spot".

[–]nascentt 44ポイント45ポイント  (1子コメント)

No wonder the admins treat the users and site the way they do... they hate it more than we do.

[–]flapanther33781 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well I guess it's a good thing we have a public forum then, isn't it?

/s

[–]Murzac 108ポイント109ポイント  (8子コメント)

I would imagine that deleting the comment and giving a warning would have been good enough for that case.

[–]BellyFullOfSwans 532ポイント533ポイント  (159子コメント)

I promise you that no kind word or apology is EVER lost on me. Trivial or not, my account did mean a lot to me and I did put a lot of time into "the better side of Reddit" (passionate debate, buying gold, participating in events and Redditgifts...etc). I truly wasnt a troll, although I did get angry after the matter and not shut up about it (to this day).

The context you describe for my "banned quote" was correct, but it was the phone number within a thread about retribution. My addition of the number was truly a plea for tolerant resolution (if you have a problem, dont send them glitter...call them and let them know). My intention was a calmer and well thought out response to a business who was in the wrong. I HONESTLY believed that "personal numbers" pertained to individuals and not businesses.

That is my side of the story and I TRULY appreciate yours. I dont require my gold back, but I do want you to know that your response is better than getting gold back. From my lone perspective, I have been stewing about this for about 4 months now.

Im no angel, but I encourage you to go through my present account or /u/gekokujo to verify that they are my only accounts and that they were used for passionate and profane debate, but never for trolling/doxxing/hate.

I would like to thank you again for your apology, and any consideration of reinstating /r/gekokujo (if nothing else, so that I could participate in Reddit Gift exchanges again).

"Never"

[–]me_and_batman 57ポイント58ポイント  (3子コメント)

Personal numbers does pertain solely to individuals. Whatever krispy told you was bullshit.

[–]BellyFullOfSwans 18ポイント19ポイント  (2子コメント)

I will maintain that is what it says in the rules as we speak and at the time of the "infraction", but I cant convince others in the thread of that.

I just want to maintain that if I did anything wrong, I would never fight the punishment. Because of the difference between private/public, I never did feel I was in the wrong in that aspect. I also know that I wasnt intentionally doxxing, so that is where my initial frustration came from.

[–]please_downvote_ 76ポイント77ポイント  (6子コメント)

Why wouldn't you just delete the comment and offer am explanation as to why? To me, THAT seems like the necessary course of action. Practically swiping an entire account's accessibility is going way overboard, and seems kinda like a power trip.

[–]wannabe_brazilian 19ポイント20ポイント  (4子コメント)

We believe that people are corruptible, but we also believe that they are mostly rehabilitatable

Isn't this somewhat... generalizing?

[–]caadbury 24ポイント25ポイント  (1子コメント)

I found that statement extremely chilling. This is reddit, not a corrections facility.

[–]rafits 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

People are corruptible? People are "mostly" rehabilitatable? Unless you have a doctorate in psychology or you are actively batman dude fuck off with that bullshit. Please don't ban me for my genuine response to that statement. It's that kind of thinking that will always point out who should be nowhere near power. Power tripping is killing Reddit. We're just people. People posting pictures of cats. Occasionally fucking up and violating a rule, bc you know it's not our job to log on here and kill time. When we mess up moderators are supposed to be there to let us know we fucked up. I was shadow banned for two years without knowing I thought I was only banned from one subreddit but no, I violated a rule once and gone. Three of four passive aggressive responses from a mod later and my first time offense was forgiven--2 years later. Reddit needs a report system for mods that actually holds them accountable for what they say and do. Only then will the community improve.

[–]catdeuce 1716ポイント1717ポイント  (145子コメント)

So what's to stop you from shadowbanning someone the next time you're upset about something in your personal life?

[–]hyperforce 115ポイント116ポイント  (0子コメント)

So what's to stop you from shadowbanning someone the next time you're upset about something in your personal life?

Absolutely nothing.

[–]Wonka_Vision 62ポイント63ポイント  (1子コメント)

Seriously -- is professionalism not a thing?

[–]avantvernacular 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Popcorn tastes good." Clearly not.

[–]Metalsand 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

While harsh, considering the circumstances it's not unwarranted. He was shadowbanned without appeal due to pure negligence...and shadowbanning is NOT SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE DONE LIGHTLY. In the given situation, that's absolutely asinine and irresponsible to shadow ban someone, because they are not deliberately breaking the rules with alt accounts or something.

[–]LandoChronus 25ポイント26ポイント  (3子コメント)

The entire issue, summed up in one response.

Why is it that, today, as "far as we've come" in society, NOT giving a shit, until you've destroyed something, people think "My bad" is acceptable ?

Why is it ok for people to not care, to not put forth any effort in preventing issues, to completely disregard any possible consequences beyond "Hey this will work for me!" ? Then, when someone calls them on it and say "Hey, this is messed up, what were you thinking?" that person thinks a simple apology will resolve everything. What has happened...

[–]sevenseal7 48ポイント49ポイント  (1子コメント)

to keep this job due to the forced relocation

It could be worse, you could have been forced to relocate and then been fired, right?

At the rate people are being let go, how confident are you that these changes can be implemented? I mean, if it can happen to Victoria of all people it could easily happen to you or other admins. I see u/Deimorz getting name-dropped as being one of the programmers implementing these changes, but IIRC isn't he still in Canada? How long until he's "let go" with no warning?

[–]eel_knight 34ポイント35ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know if it was the right decision

As someone who is ostensibly an expert in these matters at reddit, and who has just been promoted or assigned the duty to oversee more issues like this, how is this possible?

If it's really the case where this situation is in a gray area, shouldn't the rules be more clear?

e: Just found this quote from the official posting rules: "We allow organized campaigns to reach appropriate points of contact, but not individual employees who have nothing to do with the issues."

It appears that this is black and white, and that the shadowban was unwarranted, if I am reading this correctly there aren't any other details we're all missing.

In which case, you did not make the right decision, and that should be obvious to you as someone whose job it is to enforce said rules.

[–]QuineQuest 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can you explain to me why shadowbans aren't in direct violation with your stated values, specifically

Default to transparency, and when you can’t be transparent, be honest.

Shadowbans certainly aren't transparent, and they aren't honest, either.

They also make it very hard to appeal a ban when you don't even know it happened.

[–]redditgolddigg3r 121ポイント122ポイント  (15子コメント)

We believe that people are corruptible, but we also believe that they are mostly rehabilitatable and want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

Who do you think you are? God, you sound like a self-righteous piece of work here. He made a mistake. He didn't kill a puppy.

A tip going forward. Nobody cares about your two paragraphs of excuses. Just reinstate his account, refund his money, apologize, and move forward. We all have personal issues, problems, and life challenges. Your excuses are just that, excuses.

God, it seems like everyone on this team is begging for some proper interpersonal communication training. Some of the most clueless people I've ever seen.

[–]Jonnydoo 39ポイント40ポイント  (3子コメント)

Agreed, this would never fly in a real company. All I saw was a paragraph of excuses. As if no one else has had personal troubles during work.

[–]Thrug 26ポイント27ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bringing your personal issues to work and then taking them out on your customers usually gets you fired (or at least severely reprimanded) in a real company.

[–]kodiakinc 230ポイント231ポイント  (7子コメント)

So let me get this straight:

  1. Massively over-reacting to the initial post. You were "worried" so rather than delete the comment, along with adding a temp ban until your worries were addressed, you ban him permanently.

  2. You ignored the user trying to resolve the situation.

  3. You float a bullshit excuse: It happened because you were having a bit of a rough patch at the time.

Boo fucking hoo. Leave your personal drama at the door. Didn't they ever teach you that at your first job? Or maybe, just maybe take a step back and make admin decisions with a clear head. You obviously have issues handling your responsibilities, and from the looks of things over the last few days that seems to be an institutional issue with Reddit Admins in general.

Some may say at least you addressed it in a forthright manner. I say it's shitty it takes this kind of shitstorm before we get issues addressed. Now you've essentially admitted incompetence, and yet YOU are the one to be Mod Advocate, adding responsibilities to someone who just stated they couldn't effectively deal with what's already on their plate? Yeah, this leaves me just a wee bit cynical.

[–]DylannStormRoof 91ポイント92ポイント  (2子コメント)

but I was worried that your comment was going to cause a bunch of people from the internet to go harass the company.

You were worried his comment was going to cause a bunch of people from the internet to go harass the company so you don't just delete his comment, you ban him too?

perhaps even reinstate the old account if you want it back and promise to continue to abide by the rules.

According to Ellen Pao, he didn't break any rules:

Here's our definition of harassment: Systematic and/or continued actions to torment or demean someone in a way that would make a reasonable person (1) conclude that reddit is not a safe platform to express their ideas or participate in the conversation, or (2) fear for their safety or the safety of those around them. We allow organized campaigns to reach appropriate points of contact, but not individual employees who have nothing to do with the issues.

Perhaps you should apologize to him and re-instate his account instead of trying to weasel him into taking accountability over your mistake.