上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 263

[–]lewisandorclark 269ポイント270ポイント  (25子コメント)

Posting from a throwaway - trivial details have been edited for confidentiality.

I quit my previous job under similar circumstances. Was in lower management and absolutely loved my job, especially the people I worked with. A few months ago, one of the upper managers (who created the department and had been there since day one) left. Upper management now consisted of a young and inexperienced manager, and a replacement from outside the company. Nice enough people, but they tried to fix something that wasn't broken. Several radical changes were implemented with little explanation, even to other the other managers. Quadrupling in-service hours, unnecessary changes to time off policies and worker (and manager!) equipment, etc. All of this was done with zero input from employees and lower management. Hostile emails accompanied each change. Employees who had a problem with the changes were not encouraged to contact management - they were encouraged instead to send a resignation letter.

I decided to get feedback from the employees - asking if they had seen the emails and what their thoughts were. Unsurprisingly, feedback was universally negative. Most had problems with the changes themselves, and I did too, but my bigger concern was upper management not wanting discussion, even with other managers. We would hear about new changes in management meetings and not be allowed to oppose or even question it. One change was eventually reverted, although it took two days of chaos and non-productivity to convince them.

~~~~

After some time, and after seeing rising tensions between upper management and, well, literally everyone else, I finally was able to meet with the two in private. What I found out was both enlightening and disheartening:

  • The young manager had wanted to implement several of these changes for a while, but never would so long as our old department creator was still here. I had thoughts of this when things began to change, reasoning that our old manager acted as an inhibiting force. This was confirmed to me in the meeting.

  • There was pressure from corporate to make changes or corporate would "come in and clean house." This was a huge surprise. Corporate had seen down revenue from the previous year and decided changes need to be made. Whether or not they knew about losing 6+ employees that year, with no new hires, I don't know. Whether or not they knew about two people (one being the department creator) on maternity leave for 3+ months, I don't know. What I did know was no one had any idea about corporate pressure and thought upper management was solely responsible for the sudden changes. I told them this; they didn't even flinch.

  • They didn't give a shit about the staff. I told them about rising tensions and distrust between the staff and upper management, saying that many people were considering leaving if things continued with such hostility. They told me if people wanted to quit that they wouldn't have wanted them here anyways. What a thing to say to make your employees feel valued and appreciated, right? It was a high-turnover department, I understood that, but for them to tell me that really showed what they thought of the people who made shit work. (I wonder if something like this will happen with crappydesign?)

So I quit, two days later. I told a few of the other managers about what I learned in the meeting, and asked them to keep an eye out for any future shit upper management tried. I had an informal exit interview with the department head, where I told her the same thing. She was surprised that no one had been told about corporate pressure, saying she would "have some things to bring up" during her next meeting. So there's hope. Maybe.

~~~~

Obviously a hell of a read, but there are parallels that can be drawn from my experience and what's happening right now. I'm glad to see this mod saying "enough" and creating a tangible consequence for Pao and Friends. Ideally they'd fix their attitudes and the way they do things, but I don't think they will, in which case I hope this place burns. They don't deserve to have Reddit if they're going to treat it so.

tl;dr: Was lower management, quit because upper management were making sudden and radical changes and being dicks about it. Told me to my face they didn't give a shit about the staff.

[–]Karmaze 120ポイント121ポイント  (5子コメント)

There's a term that some people use for shit like that, Corporatism, which is basically a set of behaviors which tends to favor the corporate structure in business rather than customers, workers or shareholders. That's actually three separate axis, it's just that often in Corporatist environments, you usually get all three. They kind of go together.

You see short-sighted actions that actually serve to reduce productivity and profitability to shareholders, and encourage low-dividend investments, you see the belief that the value that a business creates is not because of the workers, it's because of the structure that the workers operate in (and as such the workers are expendable), and you get a strong lack of flexibility in order to best service customers, again, because of the adherence to the structure over everything else.

In this case? Some twerp probably thought by making sweeping changes and doing them in a fashion to maximize adversity, if successful would be his launching pad to a higher position. And if he failed? Not his fault. It was the workers that failed the new structure. Golden Parachute time to a new company. Zero actual skin in the game.

[–]AriusEx 35ポイント36ポイント  (1子コメント)

Some twerp probably thought by making sweeping changes and doing them in a fashion to maximize adversity, if successful would be his launching pad to a higher position.

You see something similar happen a lot on the military. I've had the opportunity to be in a number of leadership positions and seen all kinds of different officers behave in a similar way, although I'd argue that they don't intend to "maximize adversity" as you say...that's just a byproduct of them making sweeping changes to an organization they barely understand. Many leaders see lower- and middle-management as stepping-off points for other career moves, and therefore have no reason to care about the long-term effects of their actions (I have met several officers who sat me down and showed me the map they had made for their 20-year career in the military, replete with each position they were going to have in what years, by what rank, and that was all they cared about).

Thankfully I was mentored by several professional, compassionate leaders who taught me that when you assume a leadership role in an organization you don't know, wait at least 2-3 months before making any kind of drastic changes. Observe how things work, learn who the power players are and who actually gets stuff done, how the machine works and start eyeing things you'd like to improve. If you try to make drastic changes earlier than that you run a high risk of just pissing people off.

[–]There_are_others 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Many leaders see lower- and middle-management as stepping-off points for other career moves, and therefore have no reason to care about the long-term effects of their actions

I would argue that such behaviour makes them not leaders. As far as I'm concerned, a leader must care about the long-term effects of their actions - especially on the people they're supposed to be leading.

[–]Shippoyasha 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am not a fan of extreme nepotism, but this is why it is smarter to hire managers from within the ranks and not invite in a newcomer with a chip on their shoulders. Either it is that or the upper management willfully wants to fragment their workforce with an instigator.

[–]jlitwinka 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

In this case? Some twerp probably thought by making sweeping changes and doing them in a fashion to maximize adversity, if successful would be his launching pad to a higher position.

That's because 1/10 times it works. The problem is you hear about the 1/10 when studying businesses either in college or the real world and don't hear about the 9/10 times where it alienates customers and employees. Depending on the size of the company this could have major or minor ramifications, but plenty of companies have failed do to naivety

[–]jmillerworksJason Miller - Polar Roller 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh my god you just brought up bad memories of being a retail rep. Their basically corporate managers in training and you see the bad habits start there.

My philosophy was/is: A manufacturer knows little of retail, its expenses, techniques, and challenges and typically wonders why retailers deserve more than a few percent for handling their products. But a retailer knows similarly little of product development, manufacturing, and distribution.

The rep is the manufacturer’s interface with the retailer. He brings the manufacturer’s message and offering to the retailer, and smooths transactions between them. And if the manufacturer is smart, he encourages the rep to bring back feedback and suggest ways products can be improved and business facilitated. You get me 90% of what we need and I'll CYA because you're human. You let me know what you need and I'll battle for you to get it.

Unfortunately some of these little twerps are on ego trips because they know their "better" than retail and think their the boss and know more about running the store than...ya know the people that do it everyday. Your glorified internship somehow makes you better than the guys on the floors for 30 years. To me, that's the 1st person whose brain I want to pick.

Like in my role as that "interface" I do my best to understand what those employees, do go through everyday, I'll just ask them for the keys and do jobs myself if needed, or even go through a pitch with the customer they can see to get an idea of how it's done. That's leadership to me, demonstration. Well sometimes I'd work with other people, this one chick just was always starting something, she'd stand right over someone else's shoulder trying to force them to do something while they are working. Or one time she called out a pregnant woman for "taking too many breaks" and went to pull up the bloody state laws in a email chain that got way out of hand trying to go above the STORE MANAGER who was allowing it.

Absolutely decimating any good relationship I could build the team was me, her, her cousin was our boss, and her best friend "the cheerleader" aka fakest bitch on the planet, straight stepford wife shit. Pulling rank on people with the "you know how much more I make than you" shit, just straight tacky bitches. Real housewives bullshit.

Long story, point is, now I always ask employers "what's their philosophy" and more questions like that because I know how I work, I make things work. If you want someone to just come in, execute policy that is untenable, doesn't make sense, and can't respect your talent enough to accept feedback we don't need each other.

[–]based_nerd 33ポイント34ポイント  (1子コメント)

tl;dr -- read it anyway, it is a common experience in the corporate world.

I have had a similar experience and I tend to jump ship when I see these people coming.

The mark of a rookie manager, willingness to change everything before first understanding how it all works together. Someone who doesn't measure before they cut.

[–]JexerGIT 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

We've got someone like that who isn't a manager but boy howdy she wants to be someday. After 4 years here I think that almost everything she has done has been a net negative. If I could wave my magic wand it would be to fire her, remove every one of her deliverables from our workflows, and use her tenure here as a cautionary tale for others.

Sadly I think she is ultimately headed for the corporate office. Happily we don't have to listen to what they are saying.

[–]PM_ME_UR_RAINBOWS 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

My last company that I worked for had almost the same, step for step happen to them. Corporate was pressuring them for results, they panicked and hired some people that started implementing bad changes. The changes were exclusively hostile towards the people at the lower end of the pyramid, any management was kept out of these restrictions.

These changes basically made our work environment into a hell. People that had 9-5 schedules suddenly found themselves having to work odd hours with zero consideration for their personal lives. Taking toilet breaks was now forbidden unless approved by a manager. Being late by a second from your break or lunch meant you got reported and your pay was docked. Having any personal items on your desk, or even having your cell phone in your pocket was now forbidden. The internet was filtered behind a whitelist.

Then people started going to our union reps when they realized that this company was breaking a lot of labour laws in our country. A lot of huff and puffing resulted in nothing. Then the company bought out one union rep with a hefty severance package and bullied the other one into submission. Then they put their own yes-man on that position. Of course, his substantial salary increase and change of position within a year had NOTHING to do with that.. right? Anyway, what really once and for all crushed work morale over the whole company was when salary negotiations were conducted and pretty much nobody got a raise due to economy reasons.

After that, one of the new management employees let it it slip that he had gotten a substantial quarterly salary bonus which included about a third of what most of us made in a year and ten vacation days. We took it to the union and their yes-man made up a bullshit excuse that'd been a special new hire incentive bonus. But through the grapevine we all heard that the rest of management had also gotten this bonus and in some instances, even more. Meanwhile, management wasn't following their own rules or even their own schedules. They acted like corporate versions of third world dictators. I truly wish I was overexaggerating with that statement, but I'm not. One manager tried to get an employee fired because he'd been five minutes late from his lunch.. and then promptly the same day just vanished for a three hour break, completely ignoring a very important meeting with the rest of the senior staff.

This all happened gradually over two years and productivity took a nosedive while sick leave skyrocketed. Corporate of course started looking for scapegoats and found out that most of the workforce now honesty did not give a shit about their job anymore. A lot of departments saw their lower tier management guys vanish and long with that, a lot of know-how that hadn't been documented. Relations with our customers started to deteriorate and then contracts started drying up all of a sudden. It turned out that our company now had started to get a bad name in the biz, because our upper tier management was playing hardball and trying to squeeze more money out of the contracts.

Then in the end, the company started losing business and a lot of employees were having their hours cut. I was fortunate enough to have worked there for so long that when they started downsizing my department, we were all offered a nice severance package. I took it and I haven't regretted it for a second.

[–]cobaltmetal 12ポイント13ポイント  (11子コメント)

I work for foodlion, I wrote an message to HR about my store manager treating people unfairly, I got a 2 hour meeting with HR and the store manager. HR told me pretty much if you don't like it leave.

Shit sucks but I'm leaving this company at the end of July and going to encourage everyone not to shop at any delhaize stores.

[–]AfroPhysics 18ポイント19ポイント  (8子コメント)

HR exists to protect the company, not to protect the workers. Few people seem to realize this reality.

[–]dvidsilva 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

In my first job I complained to hr about how my manager was doing a shitty job and had no idea about anything, was lying to them and making them lose money.

He got fired after some more info they got and I got fire for being a dissenting employee

[–]Shippoyasha 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

It depends on the workplace really. There some some HR that actually do work in helping workers while some just abuse their power to goad workers into leaving.

[–]Thisismyredditusern 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes, but the reason HR helps workers is because they believe that will further the interests of the business. Some schools of thought believe happy workers are more productive at a cost effective basis. Other schools believe that is not crucial for,workers to be happy. Often which school prevails depends on the specifics of the industry, geographical region, etc. The HR practices will differ depending which philosophy is shared by the upper management of the company.

[–]Shippoyasha 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That is the thing I suppose. Sadly, a lot of the business world is like a feudal system. If you have a good and kind king, you will get good and kind policies. If you have a tyrant, you'll get a tyrannical system.

[–]AfroPhysics 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

When it comes to protecting the worker from the company, it's pretty clear. The workers don't sign the HR staff paychecks. RIP workers.

[–]cobaltmetal 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Then it should be called Corporate Resources not human, it is disgusting that it is like that.

[–]J2383Wiggler Wonger 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Many moons ago I worked for a store in the Delhaize family and had to file a sexual harassment claim against numerous coworkers for (among other wildly inappropriate things) giving me a nickname that made the socially anxious 17 year old me very uncomfortable. The only way I would ever file an HR complaint at any company is if I could do so completely anonymously with full immunity for any wrongdoing on my part and with a guarantee that everyone I am complaining about will be fired and have no idea why they were fired. That would be the only possible way to prevent a complaint from making everything worse, and even then I would seriously consider just keeping my head down.

Every company has a "no retaliation" policy to HR complaints, because of course they do, but retaliation is easy to hide and hard to prove. Among many other ways of getting back at someone: you can simply go over everything the complainer does with a fine tooth comb and punish them for every minor infraction, that way you're not "retaliating" you're simply following the rules. I'm sure some companies DO work to prevent that abuse too, but every experience I've had with HR has left a bad taste in my mouth and for the most part I think I would sooner leave than complain.

[–]bishopghost 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Foodcat sucks anyway - always understaffed. It's the only place I can get snacks at work until they finish building the Wawa across the street.

[–]AtlasShruggedTwice 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

This parallels my work situation in many ways, its a scary situation to be in. Nobody has a a real smile on their face, we are exhausted from the skeleton crew we are forced to work with.

Moral is nonexistent

Not to mention that it's a holiday and many of us have to stay hours past close, not even able to celebrate or even relax.

[–]Ricwulf 522ポイント523ポイント  (99子コメント)

So this is the end of Reddit.

You know that when core users leave that Reddit will just die off.

To any admin reading this, especially Ellen Pao, you've fucked up. Reddit already has a bad reputation. You won't save it. The crowds that you are trying to bring in won't come because they already think this place is a shithole. They're wrong. But that is what they have been fed. Reddit does not have a good name, and purging your core users to cleanse the atmosphere will cause a real descent in quality. You'll lose numbers, you'll lose conversation, and you'll lose people buying Reddit Gold, because that crowd won't waste money on your shit.

[–]droidworkerbee 226ポイント227ポイント  (53子コメント)

Eh, they proved their ability to control the message when FPH went down, most of the defaults are back with little more than a promise of improvements (lip service), and r/all is pretty well "back to normal."

The idealized reddit, the one we are clinging to, has been dead for a while now. This reddit is now proving itself to be resilient enough to be successfully monetized and sold to whomever wants a social platform. There will come a day when you can link your Facebook account to your reddit username. And people like you and me will have moved on a long while before then, but that won't matter because there will be enough people still around who think r/funny is funny and who will gild cat photos.

[–]riskita11 49ポイント50ポイント  (13子コメント)

Sending a message to Advance Publications, chairman Steven Newhouse, might be an idea. I don't think they really know that Pao is running Reddit into the ground at an astonishing speed. http://www.advance.net/index.ssf?/advance_internet/about_advance_net.html

[–]greatbawlsofire 34ポイント35ポイント  (8子コメント)

Do we know if she's running it into the ground from a financial perspective? My guess is not, and that this exodus of the core user base won't matter from a dollars and cents perspective. Her whole platform is likely to scrub the site of controversial thoughts and expressions so it's more palatable to the general, cat photo, public, off whom, they can monetize the site. If people are really looking for a great web-based free though, free expression platform, they'll need to look away from here because Reddit is now in the process of being monetized to be sold off.

[–]azural 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

I would guess maybe so in the short term, longer term reddit won't be making much money because it is already dying - c.f. how much money is digg making now?

[–]greatbawlsofire 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's the whole point, the company who owns reddit now wants their largest ROI. The brand is hard to sell with so many "contentious" subs, so they're trying to clear them all out. Wait for about a ~6-18 month period of calm and get divested before it's totally worthless.

[–]azural 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, I understood your point.

In a way it's sick - running a community site into the ground to make yourself rich. In a way it's good in a cycle of life sense - an old dark forest burning to the ground encourages young growth.

[–]ShamAbram -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'd like a subscription based service.

[–]azural 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

You can use voat and hackernews for free, one off payment of $5 for meta filter.

Hopefully the future of these things is continual churning - newer ones attract smarter people who shit-post less, older ones become besotted with censorship and monetization.

The real future of news/commentary conglomeration is conglomeration of multiple aggregation sites, so no one of them can become a corrupt powerful has-been like reddit is now, or if they do they drop off the radar quickly.

[–]ShamAbram 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

An aggregation system that aggregates aggregation systems. There's a meme for something like this...

[–]VikingNipples 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

They were talking about subscriptions on Voat, but I don't know what came of the discussion. You might wanna check it out.

[–]Cutsprocket 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

worked for somethingawful

[–]We_Are_Legion 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

Why are we trying to save this sjw-infested shit-hole?

I can't believe I'm saying this but...Burn reddit down.

[–]Lucifirius 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Go talk to /r/eve about burning things, the goons especially are amazing at it.

[–]myfisthastwodicks 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

goons

and they also know all about being a part of a dying forum!

[–]rkenned 14ポイント15ポイント  (3子コメント)

The idealized reddit that many cling to may not actually be compatible with a 10+ million user website.

[–]Rathadin 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

As /u/RobotHuddha points out about actual discussion, it begs the question... where do we go from here?

I found Reddit late in its life cycle, less than two years ago. I "knew about it", but didn't think there was anything here for me. In fact, I've discovered a ton of subreddits, mostly small ones with less than 1000 subs, that are perfectly engineered to my needs.

I guess I could go on and just unsub from all the defaults, but that's sort of like ignoring the criminals who are beating your neighbors...

[–]rkenned 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I guess I haven't really seen any reason to boycott reddit completely. While I don't like their actions, firing people that don't deserve it is something that literally every company with over 100 employees has done from time to time. If I boycotted a company everytime they fired someone without notifying me of the reason, I would never buy anything from anywhere ever.

Also compared to companies I do boycott (Walmart & BP), they're angels.

[–]RobotBuddha 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's what I'm starting to accept. Those numbers can be great for some things. If I need brute force factchecking on something, I'm certainly going to click the discussion on a link. But from the community aspect those numbers are terrible. It just seems to promote quick emotional fixes for social media addicts rather than actual discussion. And that drowns out the people actually talking about things.

[–]Rommel79 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

They can open all the subs they want. If we're not here, it means nothing.

[–]bernieboy 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fuck. That sounds like a virtual version of the movie Idiocracy

[–]errl_dabbingtons 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

yeah and somehow people seem to think victoria is the bad guy here

https://archive.is/uj3qz

This is just one of the comments i've seen

[–]myfisthastwodicks 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think that user is saying any disparaging about /u/chooter, just the amount of karma whoring that has been going on in her name.

[–]apoc2050 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/all doesn't feel quite right, something is off.

[–]inter-loper 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

there will be enough people still around who think r/funny is funny

:-(

I still find it funny sometimes.

[–]-MURS- -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

First realistic post I've seen about thjs

[–]riskita11 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sending a message to Advance Publications, chairman Steven Newhouse, might be an idea. I don't think they really know that Pao is running Reddit into the ground at an astonishing speed. http://www.advance.net/index.ssf?/advance_internet/about_advance_net.html

[–]jokemon 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, it will be the end unless they reverse their policies.

The problem is that reddit is going against the very premise of its own site design. This is supposed to be a place where users submit content, and the USERS decide by upvoting and downvoting.

[–]duglock 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

So this is the end of Reddit.

You know that when core users leave that Reddit will just die off.

To any admin reading this, especially Ellen Pao, you've fucked up. Reddit already has a bad reputation. You won't save it. The crowds that you are trying to bring in won't come because they already think this place is a shithole. They're wrong. But that is what they have been fed. Reddit does not have a good name, and purging your core users to cleanse the atmosphere will cause a real descent in quality. You'll lose numbers, you'll lose conversation, and you'll lose people buying Reddit Gold, because that crowd won't waste money on your shit.

Reddit denies that type of Randian logic. The producers/creators will stay even though the parasites just constantly attack them and demand more. It makes perfect sense.

[–]Coy0te 35ポイント36ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damn I was a subscriber to that sub. It's sad to see it go but I'm happy to see people take a stand.

[–]BioShock_Trigger 45ポイント46ポイント  (0子コメント)

A shame to see that one go.

[–]Militron 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Darn that was a cool sub. Oh well.

[–]StormtrooprDave 47ポイント48ポイント  (2子コメント)

I liked that sub but I support the decision. Nothing is actually lost because everyone is free to recreate it on another sub but it's the biggest way to make a statement.

[–]yonan82 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

Now, can the rest of us be arsed to start creating content to help populate the subs we frequent on voat instead? Build it and they will come, as they say.

[–]Palaxar 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

First we need to donate to voat to help them build a bigger boat. I've been trying to visit voat since Victoria was fired and its been down for the entire time.

[–]WHRtOhqjdbz7f14GpkjF 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

(EDIT: It has come to light that the removals were due to the person updating the feed. Nevertheless- everything I say below still stands- reddit has been guilty of censorship throughout this debacle.)

So no censorship in this instance. (But it still is the reason for closing down)

[–]skyshadow42 21ポイント22ポイント  (8子コメント)

What's everyone else's excuse?

Reddit can replace mods with employees and restart a few subs, but if the mods were to go dark en masse? That'd get results.

Quit. Stop moderating. Close your subs. Don't let the feeling of power and importance that comes from being a mod stop you from doing the right thing.

Shut. Down. Everything.

[–]chubbychic 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

Can I ask a dumb question -- cause I'm just an average user who only has a basic understanding of what's going on here: What specific steps would Reddit admins have to take in order to make things right? In the short term, what are we (users and mods) asking for? I understand the long-term goals (coming through on better mod tools, better communication, etc), but what do they need to offer in the short term to show a serious, concerted effort on their part? Pao stepping down?

Have I missed a specific set of demands somewhere?

[–]Clipboards 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

Replacing interim CEO Ellen Pao and reinstating their open platform policy by unbanning subs that were banned due to the "safe space" policy are the only two things they can really do in a short term.

[–]cthoenen 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

People can complain about open platform policies, but mods are the biggest censors out there, in terms of Reddit.

Even in KiA; 10 of the 12 subreddit rules are censorship based.

[–]Clipboards 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

We're not talking about subreddits though. When people have problems with subreddits they make their own (e.g. r/games was made because a majority of people hated the low-quality state /r/gaming is in). The problem is when Reddit Inc. begins to dictate what subreddits are allowed to be about after ten years of telling us they wouldn't.

[–]cthoenen 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Creating a new sub is rather effortless.

On a meta level, creating a new Reddit isn't.

It isn't feasible for admin to simply pack their bags and start a new Reddit sans FPH; instead the more feasible option is to change their standpoint.

[–]nerfAvari 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If this happened on a large scale, volunteers would just take over moderating

[–]themusicgod1 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not convinced there's anywhere yet ready for us to go, en masse. Voat is just as bad with the censorship hammer. Freize.co or whatever is buggy as all hell, and hasn't even got the hug of death yet. Aether looks promising but I haven't got into the details enough yet.

[–]maoista 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Everyone will be back.

[–]moyako 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fuck, I loved that sub. All my support for /u/solidwhetstone

[–]JitGoinHam 26ポイント27ポイント  (22子コメント)

Who is the censor in this scenario? The moderator closing down the subreddit?

[–]Miserygut 5ポイント6ポイント  (16子コメント)

It's a chilling effect caused by censorship.

Technically the moderator is the censor but only because it's not 'worth' continuing due to the hostile conditions.

[–]nerfAvari 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's a chilling effect caused by censorship.

What censorship exactly?

[–]Miserygut 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

What do you think?

[–]JitGoinHam 7ポイント8ポイント  (5子コメント)

So, if you voluntarily decide not to exercise speech because you're super angry about something (that didn't actually occur, as it turns out), you consider that a form of censorship?

The word sure loses a lot of currency on reddit.

[–]Miserygut 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's a form of self censorship due to the environment, yes. The damage to the system is hopefully greater than the damage to the person doing the censoring.

[–]IgnaciaXia -2ポイント-1ポイント  (7子コメント)

Is closing down a saloon considered censorship? Sure it stifles conversations the ex-patrons could have at the venue, but is it censorship or simply closing a venue.

Ultimately there's nothing stopping someone new from creating a new subreddit in its place.

Edit:

So if a newspaper goes out of business can the columnist claim its censorship? If a website goes out of business or elects to shut down do you consider that censorship?

I'm all for freedom of expression and very much against censorship but lets not call everything we don't like censorship. Seriously, the word is being overused like the word misogyny.

[–]GAMEchief 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know what a saloon has to do with this, but the moderator made it so that all of the content on the subreddit is inaccessible to the community that created and submitted it. That is censorship, and has nothing to do with saloons. Saloon discussion is words that stop existing once spoken. This moderator closed a library and burned the books instead of giving or selling them to the public.

[–]weewolf -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Who is destroying the body, the gangrene in the leg or the doctor that chopped it off?

[–]JitGoinHam -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

There sub was functioning fine before dickwad shut it off. So in absence of a disease, I guess we can blame the selfimportant surgeon wanting to feel like a freedom fighter or some shit.

/r/crappydesign2 is chugging along fine already. Literally nothing has changed.

[–]IamGrimReefer 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

it's not censorship it's a protest.

[–]JitGoinHam 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Of what?

[–]IamGrimReefer 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

i dunno, the admins probably. i'm just saying technically what he did is a form or protest, not censorship.

[–]XisanXbeforeitsakiss 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

did this guy just take a big dump on the user base? coz if thats so then it aint the admins who are dicks, its him.

[–]cthoenen 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's kind of been the whole situation, in my opinion.

Closing down a sub; it comes off as very self important... like he personally responsible for the 180K subs and 2M pageviews per month.

He could have just stepped down, but then someone else would have taken his spot and the sub would go on as if nothing ever happened; he would be faced with how insignificant his contribution to Reddit was.

When the original IAmA got shut down a couple of years because the mod didn't want to deal with it anymore, people petitioned admin to unlock it and install new mods... the sub became stronger than ever.

If people want /r/crappydesign to come back, admin can simply unlock the sub and let new mods take over.

Again, very self-important cry for attention on the moderators part.

[–]Arkrytis 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

He started the sub. It is his sub. Doesn't he have the right to delete it if he thinks his creation is supporting something he doesn't believe in?

[–]Nicco82 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He may have thought he did it for the right reasons, but the end result was him leaving the users and content creators high and dry. I support the notion of protesting the recent "top level" mismanagement, but in a way that would include the users voice as well as his own.

[–]ithinkineedanap [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I actually think the dicks are those that just immediately copied the sub with /r/CrappyDesign2 (not to mention I don't recall the cringey "made a mod laugh" in the original sub for a categorization of posts, but I'm often on mobile).

In that, the sub was one of my favourites, but I also appreciate the protest and really, it's one of the few subs that shutting down would help drive me off reddit (KiA being another). I'll join a crappy design sub or equivalent elsewhere instead, but I won't participate in the knock-offs here.

[–]kochier 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think he has every right to do with his sub-reddit as he wants, as well we have every right to create new alternative sub-reddits. It might piss off the other mods, and the users, but in the end he was the creator. I have created /r/crappierdesign, and someone else has created /r/crappydesign2 as a few alternatives already, such is the nature of reddit.

I'm not sure how much mod discussion there was on crappy design, but in the end the creator is the dictator, unless he is breaking site rules, he has a council (the other mods) to help them, but in the end he always has final say/veto power.

[–][deleted] 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

the head mod of crappydesign2 is a ghazi and SRS poster. that sub should be avoided.

[–]Spike__Jonze 15ポイント16ポイント  (8子コメント)

Wait, so being a moderator is considered a career?

[–]SportzTawk 20ポイント21ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes. They get paid in Schrute Bucks.

[–]MrPejorative[S] 17ポイント18ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's an expression. I say "career" in the context of a certain activity. My "gaming career", my "climbing career" etc

[–]HaveaManhattan 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Question - can admins just delete every post in a sub ever? Like, what if /r/pics or /r/AMA mods just deleted it all, but kept the subs open. Or could they save a copy essentially to their own computers, then delete it from reddit? What if a bunch of people just deleted it all, and held their personal copies hostage until she is gone?

[–]Ghostise 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

When a mod removes a post it isn't actually deleted, it is just hidden from view and they can be be brought back.

SOURCE: Am mod.

[–]JustALittleGravitas 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Automoderator should be able to do it, it probably has safeties, but those could be broken by a clever mod.

[–]IAmAnAnonymousCoward 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

The users are the content creators, not the mods.

[–]JustALittleGravitas 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

So is he moving somewhere else?

The problem with abandoning Reddit right now is there's no good community on a decent site I can find. Voat has a great site (when it works, but its not like Reddit used to be any different) but it's crippled by most of the users being FPH refugees.

[–]I_Plunder_Booty 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm really torn about leaving Reddit for a few reasons.

  1. There's a lot of people on Reddit and even if 100,000 of us leave, it's just a drop in the bucket and won't matter at all.

  2. There's a lot of value in reddit's small niche subs. I unsubbed from all the default subs ages ago and am probably a member of only 2-3 subs with over 100,000 users at this point. I've found hobbies I didn't know existed, TV shows broadcast an ocean away, and fetishes I didn't know I had.

  3. I'm a member of a lot of hate subs. By staying on reddit and sharing my opinions with like minded individuals I'm making this site a worse place. You know how so many SJW types have the opinion that Reddit is full of racists and bigots? Well I'm partially responsible for that, and alienating Pao's target demographic just by existing brings me great joy.

[–]Inverno_MutoFlipped the bitch switch 10ポイント11ポイント  (9子コメント)

moot left 4chan, it's stronger than ever.

Reddit is dying.

I couldn't have imagined a more dystipian future.

[–]vonmonologue 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

I couldn't have imagined a more dystipian future.

You spelled that wrong. It's spelled G-L-O-R-I-O-U-S.

... well, not the 4chan selling out part. Just the fact that Chans are still going strong in 1000(2)+15

[–]keldoftheisles 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

stronger than ever

[–]psychologyfox 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think he meant stronger with SJWs

[–]Dal_Gren 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wouldn't know about 4chan, left after moot decided to censor.

[–]kiwikku 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I fucking hate 4chan and wish 8chan would kill that site once and for all, but mod drama hampers it so.

[–]vonxeon 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

4chin is trash now. (always has been but even more so now)

[–]OrangeDreamed 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

4chan was and IS a moral cesspit, but it's been a while since it was a FUN moral cesspit.

[–]sharoku 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dumbest thing I ever read.

[–]AustNerevar 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

All this is going to do, the exodus from before and the exodus from this event, is going to leave the more corrupt individuals on Reddit. As much as I hated FPH, I didn't agree with their removal. And now that so many left in the wake of their removal, the Redditors remaining are pretty pro-censorship. Someone even commented said they'd rather have a heavily moderated forum than have to see FPH.

[–]chiefsport 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some people just crave authority. It's weird.

[–]GAMEchief 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Holy shit, talk about censorship. "I am removing all of the content you guys created and submitted and making it impossible to retrieve."

Just because you made the subreddit, you can ban everyone from retrieving the content submitted to it? And doing it as if you're taking some moral high ground?

Yeah, you have every right to ban people from getting the content on your subreddit, but you do not have the moral high ground in doing so. You're kind of a fucking dick. If you don't want to be moderator, then you can demod yourself and literally appoint anyone else. But to say that the community-driven content is now inaccessible forever, you're a fucking dick.

[–]ApeOver 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

a nasty bit of petty revenge

[–]Lowbacca1977 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wouldn't the brunt of it still be on imgur?

[–]MediocreMind 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

"I am removing all of the content you guys created and submitted and making it impossible to retrieve."

To be fair, if you're a designer (even a crappy one) and aren't keeping locally-saved backups of your work and instead depend on retrieving it from community boards where you shared it once, you pretty much deserve to lose your work.

[–]thor_moleculezApparently advocates dox? 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's...not censorship.

[–]adragontattoo 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is NO Censorship in willingly closing a sub and stepping down...

Not even in the absolutely broadest possible definition.

[–]codeGrit 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

All the people in this thread who are shitting on this mod for not bending in his principles. Asking him to continue doing something he doesn't agree with is beyond selfish.

If you want CrappyDesign that bad, go make a v2.

[–]armedburrito 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey, let me piss in my community's face to show them how bad the admins are treating them. That'll show them. Also, censorship? You keep using this word, I don't think it means what you think it means.

[–]bionicjoey 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I recall /u/chooter at one point mentioning that /r/CrappyDesign was one of her favorite subs. It was actually the reason i went on it and it's been one of my favorites ever since. Sad to see such a great sub go.

[–]HorabFibslager 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd love to see more big subs follow suit.

[–]Nora_Oie 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Kudos to all the combatants in this war. I'm so glad to see that some are carrying onward.

It was always a hard fight - Reddit is now a kind of Camelot.

[–]TheEternalRain 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

That was actually one of my favorite subs.... Fuck it i'm out.

[–]GiantAcroyear 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's already re-opened

[–]pallepumpgun 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I can't see any posts relating this issue on my frontpage aside from this. Are threads regarding this currently being removed or is Reddit's attention span really this short?

[–]MrPejorative[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The original announcement is on my front page, but then I'm subscribed to /r/Art. It might vary depending on your subscriptions.

[–]194955 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is the kind of protest that should be going on. I hope more subs follow suit. Just nuke the whole sub and be done with it. Voat is down, so still hanging around here, not super thrilled about. This place has gone total shit.

[–]Light31 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

So you're saying this guy created all of the content for crappy design?

Hard work.

[–]Gamer9103 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That "permanent" shutdown lasted about as long the blackout of all those other subs.

[–]mnemosyne-0000#BotYourShield 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Archive links for this discussion:


I am Mnemosyne, goddess of memory. I remember so you don't have to.

[–]ledailydose 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I love how so far only THIS guy didn't give in. Bravo.

[–]long-shots 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/crappydesign2 is open and ready for all your resubs

[–]Skamberin -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I like hanging around this burning ship

[–]riskita11 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sending a message to Advance Publications, chairman Steven Newhouse, might be an idea. I don't think they really know that Pao is running Reddit into the ground at an astonishing speed. http://www.advance.net/index.ssf?/advance_internet/about_advance_net.html

[–]2girls1meme 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Crashing this site, WITH NO SURVIVORS!

[–]kingwah -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is a good thing. Now someone can create a new version of crappydesign that won't get shut down when someone throws a tantrum.

[–]TheSouperNazi -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

And to think I thought nobody on Reddit had the cajones to do something like this, but it looks like I was proven wrong.

I hope this starts a chain reaction.

[–]wowww_ -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

tbh I think this will be the only one.

All the other reddits opened their doors after less than a day, he's the sole mod who actually has any balls.